Conning non-BKs

for ex-Brahma Kumaris, to discuss matters related to their experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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alladin
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Conning non-BKs

Post by alladin » 22 Mar 2007

About conning:

Over the years, I felt less and less comfortable at introducing BK's Raja Yoga to other people because of the intellectual honesty I want to maintain regarding all the incongruities we are taught and which I don't want to pass on to new students. Whenever something did not make sense to our analytical mind, we were suggested to have more meditation to open the Third Eye more, so we could grasp metaphysical concepts. Or that Baba hasn't revealed everything yet, so, wait and see. I could probably carry with me for some more time a bunch of unanswered questions and preserve faith in God at the core of my heart, but pulling other people into an organization that has many "mysteries", to use a kind euphemism; no, I feel uneasy with that.

All the digging and exposing going on in the Forum, I think is done in accordance with Baba's instructions not to perpetuate the Bhakti "blind faith system".

In the latest Avyakt Murli of March 17th, Baba says that he's aware of what's going on, and also repeatedly says that we should be able to discriminate right from wrong but not become distressed or distracted by it. Likewise, in Sakar Murli, Baba advises us never to sulk with him, nor leave him, even if there are problems with BK teachers.

So, in order to protect our faith, our fortune and our role of World Benefactors, I think that the maintenance and plumbing job must go on. If the TRUE Satguru is behind it all and we are, along with him, aiming to establish Satyug, the land of TRUTH. Otherwise, we are just kidding ourselves and others. Whatever personality - brahmins feel and do, whatever their degree of faith and honesty, at least they make money by selling their man-made courses. But for anyone else who just hangs in the BK organization, dragging along, investing time and energy unpaid, it would make probably more sense to find some other occupation in the Kaliyugi world of falsehood.

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Re: Get helicopter lessons

Post by mr green » 22 Mar 2007

jim brady wrote:Does anyone here recall hearing in a Sakar Murli the advice from Shiva Baba himself to drop leaflets from helicopters announcing that God has come and that the World was about to end? Strangely, in the centre that I was at, this advice was not followed up. The sneaky, covert and subterfugal approach was always the preferred option; The Million Minutes of Peace ... Global Co-operation ... UN ... Relaxation ... Self-development and that was 20 years ago. Things still haven't changed as far as I know.
Hahahahahaah the sneaky approach ... I remember that, quite good fun sneaking around feeeling the pulse an all that ... try and get em back to the centre ... then try and get em to morning class ... then try and get them to be veggie and celibate ... then try and get them to do service ... then try and get them to go to Madubhan :lol: :lol:

Nah, they're hooked by then :lol:

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Post by bro neo » 17 Apr 2007

I hate to quote Hitler, but ...

"The bigger the lie the more people will believe it".

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Re: Conning non-BKs

Post by joel » 18 Apr 2007

alladin wrote:Likewise, in Sakar Murli, Baba advises us never to sulk with him, nor leave him, even if there are problems with BK teachers.
A skilled therapist can help a person work with the projections and judgments he makes about his therapist, so that the 'sulking' is pressed into service of illuminating a pattern of inwardly judging oneself. The therapist doesn't present herself as all things to the client. The therapy relationship she keeps scrupulously structured and boundaried to be able to make the situation neutral. The meaning originates from the attitudes and behaviors of the client.

Brahma's guarantee of salvation is therefore different in structure and goals than a therapist's careful guidance in a client's self exploration. Therapists do not assume that 'some bricks will break in the oven' or 'some laundry will be torn when beaten by the stick."

Brahma is charismatic. He preaches coexistence of male and female, and praises women yet otherwise leads a tradition that is steeped in renunciation. 'The body is false, Maya is false, the whole world is false.' The ultimate message appears to be one of rejection, unlike a therapist that seeks to help a client integrate all parts of himself and all his life relationships into a nourishing wholeness.

In summary to expect the kind of growth you would get with an excellent therapist through a process of recognizing and accepting oneself within the BK family milieu is is likely to be hit and miss at best. Brahma may have had an equality of vision towards anyone he met. The same cannot be said to be true of BK teachers, who would definitely not describe their work as therapy. Their search for 'original family members' is a search for people with the potential to share in a radical fanatical world view, who will identify with the radical fanatical BK family.

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Post by zhuk » 18 Apr 2007

joel wrote:Brahma may have had an equality of vision towards anyone he met. The same cannot be said to be true of BK teachers, who would definitely not describe their work as therapy. Their search for 'original family members' is a search for people with the potential to share in a radical fanatical world view, who will identify with the radical fanatical BK family.
I couldn't agree more joel. Which leads into the old "duty-of-care" discussion huh :roll:.

What care is taken with possibly vulnerable or even mentally ill BK students? I've been told that someone had a psychotic break at the Blue Mountains retreat outside Sydney... now what sort of proper help would they have received?? I went through the most appalling pain when I was abruptly told to never come back over the phone. Just because I was having trouble with the 'self-brainwashing' aspect (as I saw it). There was no one I could talk to about the horrible confusion I was going through :(

BUT ... then I found this forum & started to realise the truth of my manipulation etc. I really cannot thank you all enough for helping in the restoration of my sanity :).

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Post by bro neo » 19 Apr 2007

joel wrote:A skilled therapist ...
I knew a Sister in Charge of a Center who was given a job at as a counsellor at a professional hospital. No credentials required, she went from being an English tutor to a paid counselor because of her work with the BKs.

I was actually about to go down that road myself, but then left the BKs. Where is that half finished diploma in counselling correspondent course of mine from like 5 years ago, around here some where ... Oh! I bought it when I was still a trustee! So its not mine, it's still Baba's! Maybe I should go give it back to the Center. Or is it part of my divorce settlement?
zhuk wrote: I really cannot thank you all enough for helping in the restoration of my sanity :).
Ah, the 2nd step, came to believe that a power greater then myself could restore me to sanity.

Reading the above post got me thinking. Have humans, anywhere, ever really been sane? Then comes the question, what is sanity? Is a people who kills only for the sake of power or control sane as contrast to killing for pleasure? I do like some theories such as by naturalists, like Samuel Hahnemann, about how if the body is operating under perfect balance or homeostasis the person will be in perfect peace.

Or is the reality of the "Restoration", really talking about consciousness before it becomes a part of the human being?

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Post by di » 19 Apr 2007

Hi Zhuk,

it may have been the same episode my partner told me about. He was on retreat at the time this happened. This would have been 3 to 5 years ago.

Apparently one of the brothers started dancing around the place, singing out saying he was the light and flowers, and spreading 'love' everywhere. Totally lost it. The brother was 'escorted' away by Charlie Hogg. My partner started to follow them down the hall to see if he could help and was very dismissively asked, 'are you a doctor?' with a very unfriendly look and nasty tone of voice. It was obvious my partner was being told to go. The brother was not seen again for the rest of the retreat. No one knows what happened to him.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 19 Apr 2007

di wrote:The Brother was 'escorted' away by Charlie Hogg. My partner started to follow them down the hall to see if he could help and was very dismissively asked, 'are you a doctor?' with a very unfriendly look and nasty tone of voice. It was obvious my partner was being told to go.
Yes ... that is Charlie Hogg and the other face of the BKWSU. And this is another of those unspoken part of BK life.

It would be very good to investigate what happened there. In India it has been referred to as 'possession by evil/other spirit' (and could well be).

Joel had an incident where a student of his complete freaked out. It is essential that we track these and find out what happened to the individuals afterwards. Do they come out of it ... where do they go ... I wonder if the organization documents incidents centrally? I doubt it. More cover up.

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Post by joel » 19 Apr 2007

ex-l wrote:I wonder if the organization documents incidents centrally? I doubt it. More cover up.
Nothing to cover up. Drama! Let passed be past! Finish! Full stop!! More Gyan, Yoga, dharna and sewa. Push out the unimportant inevitabilities of fate.

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Post by di » 19 Apr 2007

It would be very good to investigate what happened there. In India it has been referred to as 'possession by evil/other spirit' (and could well be).
Interesting you should say this ex-l, I worked in Psychiatric nursing for years. Some of the old nurses that had been there for many, many years (back in the bad old days) claimed that some of the mentally ill patients were, in fact, possessed by demons. These are well educated, highly experienced professionals that held this view. I was told this on several occassions about 20 years ago.

Simple fact is, you cannot have uneducated people, who really do not know what they are doing (as stated here in the forum), messing about with people's brains, putting them into altered states, using group and self-hypnosis, and opening psyhic channels without doing some major damage. Taken also into fact that the majority of these people have entered into the BKs at a vulnerable or traumatic time in their life.

It is like a mechanic doing brain surgery, it just aint gonna work. There will be damage to one extent or another, or a likelihood of total shutdown.

Most treatment for pyschosis is admission to psychiatric hospital, lots and lots of drugs (legal) and intense psychotherapy. Unfortunately, even when (if) they do come out of the psychosis, they rarely function they way they did previously; if they end up functioning at all. I have no idea how to track the outcomes of these individuals. I am no longer in the system, have no names and no recourse to find out, not to mention professional ethics and the Privacy Act.

And yes, the BKs are responsible for this. Or is it just due to karma that they deserve this? Or is it a flagrant lack of duty of care?

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Post by fluffy bunny » 19 Apr 2007

di wrote:Simple fact is, you cannot have uneducated people, who really do not know what they are doing (as stated here in the forum), messing about with people's brains, putting them into altered states, using group and self-hypnosis, and opening psyhic channels without doing some major damage. Taken also into fact that the majority of these people have entered into the BKs at a vulnerable or traumatic time in their life.
The fact is, it is a flagrant lack of duty of care. IT is a very serious matter.

Where are these events documented as they would be in a professional environment? I think that look on Charlie face is the most honest face of the BKs you partner has probably ever seen. Joel gives you a very honest account of how the problem would be treated. The only thing missing is that the rest of the BK community is so conditioned that that no one would ask or question how or why.

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Post by zhuk » 20 Apr 2007

di wrote:it may have been the same episode my partner told me about. He was on retreat at the time this happened. This would have been 3 to 5 years ago.
Yes, from memory the time frame fits, di.
The Brother was 'escorted' away by Charlie Hogg. My partner started to follow them down the hall to see if he could help and was very dismissively asked, 'are you a doctor?' with a very unfriendly look and nasty tone of voice. It was obvious my partner was being told to go. The Brother was not seen again for the rest of the retreat. No one knows what happened to him.
Very illuminating reaction. Shows their discomfort with what could turn into very bad PR.

I was told by the same BK that, in fact, schizophrenics have two souls in the (latest version of) BK doctrine. Has anyone heared this - really quite inventive - explanation before? To me that sounds like the misunderstanding of an uneducated society, pre-scientific thought would believe ... which fits in my mind with other Knowledge (tm) aspects ... dinosaurs being contiguous with humans, 5000 years etc

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Post by di » 20 Apr 2007

Hey, that's not fair, they stole my idea.

It was a month or so ago when I was told (here on the forum) Jesus Christ had 2 souls. I said to the man of the house how wrong it was that the bible never told us Jesus was a pseudo-schizophrenic. Just another one of those things i come out with that makes me so popular around here :lol:

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Post by bro neo » 20 Apr 2007

Some of the scientists from the 'What the Bleep Do We Really Know' films had an opinion about schizophrenia or multiple personalities, it was very interesting ... :x bloody hell, I can’t remember what it is though.

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Re: Get helicopter lessons

Post by jannisder » 21 Jul 2008

jim brady wrote:Does anyone here recall hearing in a Sakar Murli the advice from Shiva Baba himself to drop leaflets from helicopters announcing that God has come and that the World was about to end? Strangely, in the centre that I was at, this advice was not followed up. The sneaky, covert and subterfugal approach was always the preferred option; The Million Minutes of Peace ... Global Co-operation ... UN ... Relaxation ... Self-development and that was 20 years ago. Things still haven't changed as far as I know.
I remember reading it somewhere. Where is it????

http://www.reachouttrust.org/articles/o ... brahma.htm
FINAL DESTRUCTION Brahma kumaris

One of the most important aspects of the Brahma Kumaris is its believed role during the final Destruction of this world. Having followed the many processes of purification, detachment and dedication, each yogi is told he/she will transform into an angel while everything else is falling apart. Having become both a channel and vessel of God's love, they believe the time is quickly coming when they will radiate peace to the terrified and perishing multitudes.

They believe that the authorities will use them on TV, and many will be transported in helicopters to areas of severe suffering. Along with the peace they bring, their task will be to remind those about to die, that they are a "soul" and not just a perishable body.
Students are taught that the millions with no particular faith will suffer badly. It is said that on death, their souls will have no direction to go, and will seek to possess the mind and bodies of those still living. In other words, the living will be temporarily possessed by the many souls of the dead. This will cause great suffering as many souls fight for control of the one mind and body. A student believes his/her purity will afford protection from this.

The revelations gave no specific date for the final destruction, but explained that it would come when every last soul had left heaven to express itself in a body here on earth. This time will coincide with the final and total perfection and purification of the Raj Yogis [who will then be almost angelic]. There will be a brief period of world war and Destruction, and then the end will come.

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