COMMENTS on "SM & AV points for churning"

To discuss the BK and PBK versions relating to the progressive differential development of BK & PBK ideologies or theologies.
mbbhat
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Re: COMMENTS on "SM & AV points for churning"

Post by mbbhat » 22 Sep 2015

sita wrote:We are handicapped and need the walking stick of Shrimat at every step. In Shrimat there is salvation. In human opinion (including our own) there is degradation.
It is clearly seen in the forum whether PBKs are being guided by srimath or a human being full of errors - A tip of the iceberg is here- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2593

But, I have absolutely no problem. You may please continue.

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Re: COMMENTS on "SM & AV points for churning"

Post by arjun » 22 Sep 2015

mbbhat wrote: Is this not hopeless stage of PBKs to give such comments when they depend on words of B Baba and say he is not a guide AT THE SAME TIME?
PBKs don't depend on the words of Brahma Baba. We are dependent on the words of ShivBaba, whether they were spoken through Brahma Baba or are being spoken through the present Chariot of Shankar.

And it is not the PBKs, but the BKs who are handicapped because their mouths have been shut by their so-called bosses (they cannot speak about the advance knowledge at BK centers, they cannot ask even a simple question to Avyakt BapDada since 1969 whether the advance knowledge of PBKs is right or wrong), their ears have been closed by their bosses because they are asked not to hear whatever PBKs say, their eyes have been made non-functional because they cannot see Shiv within Shankar, but only see Shankar, their legs have been restricted because they are not allowed to go anywhere near the PBKs. But there is no such restriction on the PBKs.

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Re: COMMENTS on "SM & AV points for churning"

Post by mbbhat » 22 Sep 2015

arjun wrote: And it is not the PBKs, but the BKs who are handicapped because their mouths have been shut by their so-called bosses
Baba has ADEQUATELY CAUTIONED & VERY CLEARLY WARNED ALL Brahmin children to - SPEAK NO EVIL, HEAR NO EVIL, SEE NO EVIL, DO NOT GO ANYWHERE NEAR EVIL, DO NO EVIL, TALK NO EVIL, THINK NO EVIL, FEEL NO EVIL, DREAM NO EVIL, SENSE NO EVIL . . .
Baba has also said- IGNORE Ravan or Maya COMPLETELY.

Regarding asking "even a simple question to Avyakt BapDada, since 1969, whether the Advanced Knowledge of PBKs is right or wrong", most PBKs and their bodily guru DO NOT APPEAR to even know that Dadi Kumarka had already addressed this issue with BapDada many, many years ago, and BapDada had given a clear directive to BKWSU to IGNORE THEM and continue with INDIVIDUAL EFFORT; and most PBKs would also not be aware that BK Jagdish Bhai himself was deputed to meet their bodily guru to convince him POLITELY that what he was doing was NOT in ACCORDANCE with ShivBaba's Shrimat, but Jagdish Bhai was simply INSULTED and SHUNNED by -Virendra Dev Dixit at that time, due to his EVIDENT ARROGANCE of MIXING PURE Shrimat with Bhakti CONCEPTS, and hence he was left alone thereafter by BKWSU, to HIS OWN DESTINY, as per Drama!!!

So, why should BKs listen to AIVV, when ShivBaba has already cautioned them, in advance, IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS? So, majority of BKs would NATURALLY FOLLOW the BENEVOLENT Shrimat of ShivBaba, as mentioned above, UNLESS they desire to get TRAPPED in the MOST TREACHEROUS BOG of Ravan or Maya, MASQUERADING as ShivBaba and making COMPLETE FOOLS of the PBKs, as per Drama Plan, of course!

Now, failure of PBKs is CLEARLY EVIDENT on this forum. So, there is NO NEED to listen further to AIVV, since they have ALREADY BEEN UNMASKED COMPLETELY!

And, now Mr Dixit has openly announced (in the video clip): NO ENTRY to AIVV to those who do not submit letter of faith on bond paper. So- who is really handicapped, and WHO IS FOOLING WHOM?
They cannot see Shiv within Shankar, but only see Shankar,
See what is visible here- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAbWfJsHcdA

or in these - flaw no. 45 - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=49764#p49709

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Re: COMMENTS on "SM & AV points for churning"

Post by arjun » 24 Sep 2015

mbbhat wrote:Regarding asking "even a simple question to Avyakt BapDada, since 1969, whether the Advanced Knowledge of PBKs is right or wrong", most PBKs and their bodily guru DO NOT APPEAR to even know that Dadi Kumarka had already addressed this issue with BapDada many, many years ago, and BapDada had given a clear directive to BKWSU to IGNORE THEM and continue with INDIVIDUAL EFFORT; and most PBKs would also not be aware that BK Jagdish Bhai himself was deputed to meet their bodily guru to convince him POLITELY that what he was doing was NOT in ACCORDANCE with ShivBaba's Shrimat, but Jagdish Bhai was simply INSULTED and SHUNNED by -Virendra Dev Dixit at that time, due to his EVIDENT ARROGANCE of MIXING PURE Shrimat with Bhakti CONCEPTS, and hence he was left alone thereafter by BKWSU, to HIS OWN DESTINY, as per Drama!!!
Where is the documentary proof of Avyakt BapDada's words????? When BKWSU can publish thousands of AVs, why cannot they publish the above lines????

In another topic there is discussion about Jagdish Bhai tutoring the BK teachers against the advance knowledge and here mbbhat is himself admitting that Jagdish Bhai was made instrumental for such tasks.
And, now Mr Dixit has openly announced (in the video clip): NO ENTRY to AIVV to those who do not submit letter of faith on bond paper. So- who is really handicapped, and WHO IS FOOLING WHOM?
ShivBaba through Brahma Baba repeated the same words before 1969 in many Sakar Murlis. But now that Brahma Baba is not alive, the BKs have conveniently forgotten those words. Even during Brahma Baba's time outsiders wanted to meet him regularly and ShivBaba cautioned BKs against doing so through the Murlis. But now that the BKs have mortagaged their body and mind to their bodily gurus, they deny whatever has been spoken in the Murlis.

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Re: COMMENTS on "SM & AV points for churning"

Post by mbbhat » 25 Sep 2015

arjun wrote:Where is the documentary proof of Avyakt BapDada's words????? When BKWSU can publish thousands of AVs, why cannot they publish the above lines????
There is no need to publish them. Leaders of a country are expected to publish only those things which are useful for or related to the citizens. There is no need to either publish or give reply to those who criticize the Govt whose beliefs and aims are totally opposite of the Govt.
In another topic there is discussion about Jagdish Bhai tutoring the BK teachers against the Advanced Knowledge and here mbbhat is himself admitting that Jagdish Bhai was made instrumental for such tasks.
There, what I meant was- I do not feel that Jagadish Bhaiji had tried to train the BKs to give reply to their queries or claims.

Here, what I meant is- Jagadish Bhaiji had tried to just talk with Mr Virendra Dev Dixit in a friendly manner (like a PRO) and make him realize about the wrong steps being taken by him. So, both are totally different.
ShivBaba through Brahma Baba repeated the same words before 1969 in many Sakar Murlis. But now that Brahma Baba is not alive, the BKs have conveniently forgotten those words. Even during Brahma Baba's time outsiders wanted to meet him regularly and ShivBaba cautioned BKs against doing so through the Murlis. But now that the BKs have mortagaged their body and mind to their bodily gurus, they deny whatever has been spoken in the Murlis.
PBKs take only half of Baba's words and do one-sided arguments. ShivBaba through B baba had not supported doing Q and A sessions, like discussions and discussions like what Mr Virendra Dev Dixit does.

The reason why Baba has said so was- it is useless for a person to sit in front of the Chariot unless he knows what the Murli is about. But, here the case is different. BKs already know about Murli and believe in it as words of God, like PBKs also believe.

ShivBaba had clearly said- the Chariot will not go to 'gali'2 (lanes & bylanes), like Mr -Virendra Dev Dixit travels.

So- who is going against Murli points is clearly seen here.

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Re: COMMENTS on "SM & AV points for churning"

Post by arjun » 25 Sep 2015

mbbhat wrote:There is no need to publish them. Leaders of a country are expected to publish only those things which are useful or related to the citizens. There is no need to either publish or give reply to those who criticize the Govt whose beliefs and aims are totally opposite of the Govt.
If you cannot publish any documentary proof of Avyakt BapDada's words even after five decades, if you cannot publish Sakar Murlis even after seven decades, then your words can only be considered as your personal opinion and not any official stand of BKWSU. And Murlis say that we should follow the Shrimat (Godly directions) and not the opinions of any human being like you (manmat).
There, what I meant was- I do not feel that Jagadish Bhaiji had tried to train the BKs to give reply to their queries or claims.
Whether you admit or not, the truth is that Jagdish Bhai and other Seniors trained the BK teachers to oppose advance knowledge and the BKWSU bigwigs have also equipped them with defamatory materials against AVV which they show to any BK who has contacted or is trying to contact the PBKs.
PBKs take only half of Baba's words and do one-sided arguments. ShivBaba through B Baba had not supported doing Q and A sessions, like discussions and discussions like what Mr Veerendra Dev Dixit does.
This is again your manmat (personal direction). ShivBaba has said in the Murlis that BKs should not establish committees and discuss among themselves, but they can ask Baba any question. The above reply shows how BKs like you are trying to scuttle freedom of speech and are misguiding other BKs.
ShivBaba had clearly said- the Chariot will not go to 'gali'2 like Mr Veerendra Dev Dixit travels.
This is again your manmat. Baba has said in the Murlis that He will not go out to meet the outsiders or VIPs. That is the task of the children. But He can definitely go out to meet the children. In fact, ShivBaba through Brahma Baba travelled many places in India between 1950 and 1969. And even in one of the Avyakt Vanis BapDada has said that wherever you form Mini-madhubans BapDada will visit.

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Re: COMMENTS on "SM & AV points for churning"

Post by mbbhat » 25 Sep 2015

arjun wrote:And Murlis say that we should follow the Shrimat (Godly directions) and not the opinions of any human being like you (manmat).
Who has asked you to follow my words? This is just discussions where any member can explain/put his views logically or with Murli points.
If you cannot publish any documentary proof of Avyakt BapDada's words even after five decades, if you cannot publish Sakar Murlis even after seven decades, then your words can only be considered as your personal opinion and not any official stand of BKWSU.
They are just few extra things added here which I had heard from some senior BKs. You need not give any value to it until I give you proof about it. You may ignore them. Hundreds of Murli points already put in the forum are indeed more than PROOF.
Whether you admit or not, the truth is that Jagdish Bhai and other Seniors trained the BK teachers to oppose Advanced Knowledge and the BKWSU bigwigs have also equipped them with defamatory materials against AIVV which they show to any BK who has contacted or is trying to contact the PBKs.
In had asked about the TRAINING materials, but no proof was given. Anyhow, even if he had done, Jagadish Bhaiji has already left his body years before. If you still have proof that some BKs had got trained by Jagadish Bhaiji and visit AIVV to argue with Mr Virendra Dev Dixit, please share your experience dear. Then I will take back my words if I am wrong.

But, here it seems that you are telling something different(in the clip it was said by Mr Virendra Dev Dixit as if some BKs get trained), so diverting from the point. You are saying about defamatory materials now. But, first defamatory materials were prepared by AIVV against BKWSU, is it not?
This is again your manmat (personal direction). ShivBaba has said in the Murlis that BKs should not establish committees and discuss among themselves,
Really? Has ShivBaba said not to discuss gyaan points among themselves? I have not heard so. You may quote the Murli point.
but they can ask Baba any question. The above reply shows how BKs like you are trying to scuttle freedom of speech and are misguiding other BKs.
Yes, but Baba has also said- it is waste to think too much about many things (which clearly shows the discussions of PBKs with their Baba is waste). If you need, I will give you the Murli points.
This again your manmat. Baba has said in the Murlis that He will not go out to meet the outsiders or VIPs.
Where does the question of outsiders come in the dictionary of PBKs when PBKs claim all the Murli points are about just BK- PBK world?

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Re: COMMENTS on "SM & AV points for churning"

Post by arjun » 25 Sep 2015

Who has asked you to follow my words? This is just discussions where any member can explain/put his views logically or with Murli points.
So you accept that the opinion expressed by you was your personal opinion and not the official position of BKWSU?
Hundreds of Murli points already put in the forum are indeed more than PROOF.
I had asked you a simple question whether BKs have put a single question about PBKs or AVV to Avyakt BapDada ever since 1969? I did not ask of Sakar Murli proofs. For that now you say that it was a hearsay from BK Seniors.
In had asked about the TRAINING materials, but no proof was given.
BK Seniors are not fools to leave proofs of such training.
Really? Has ShivBaba said not to discuss gyaan points among themselves? I have not heard so. You may quote the Murli point.
Yes, I have read it myself and will produce whenever I find it.

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Re: Sakar Murli & Avyakt Vani points for churning

Post by fluffy bunny » 01 Oct 2015

I think you are misusing, or rather abusing, the word "understand".

What you really mean is "accept", as in "those who do not clearly accept".

One cannot understand the Knowledge. There is nothing in it to understand.

One can only accept it .. or not. This is something I have discussed again and again with Mbbhat.

Are you him or Golden Heart? Or are you working together?

"Who are the UNRIGHTEOUS children who DO NOT CLEARLY understand, (and who are COMPLETELY CONFUSED & CONFOUNDED" ... surely the BKWSU leaders and their unquestioning enforcers and sycophants.

Time and time and time again, it has been shown how the Brahma Kumaris have lied, exaggerated and falsified their past and their present, and manipulated the Murlis to suit their leaders and agenda.

So whose deep sanskars are you addressing when you speak of "CORRUPTED & ADULTERATED" -

Surely the BKWSU leadership?

If the BKWSU leadership wishes to correct this and themselves, and take responsibility for misleading 100,000s of individuals ... surely a seriously bad karma ... then they might start by publishing the true, accurate and complete earliest version of the Murlis and, for good measure, it would be useful to have Lekhraj Kirpalani's diaries from 1932 onwards.

Let us study and decide for ourselves.

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Re: Sakar Murli & Avyakt Vani points for churning

Post by sita » 26 Sep 2016

View post in topic - viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2602&start=165#p51901
1. ShivBaba DOES NOT TEACH THROUGH Brahma Baba!
Who has said this? Of course He teaches.
2. BKs CANNOT claim their unlimited inheritance from ShivBaba, through Brahma Baba!
From whom else will they claim? Baba has said that we claim our inheritance through Jagadamba. In reality Brahma is our Jagadamba. All souls of the world will claim their inheritance via Jagadamba.


= RESPONSE =

A part of the intellect of some PBKs are beginning to REAL-EYEs the ACTUAL TRUTH!

TRUTH 1 : REAL ShivBaba, Shiva or God TEACHES through REAL Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLR. Hence, in ADDITION to enacting the ROLE of a Father, through Brahma Baba (who plays the role of the 'Alokik' Mother or REAL JAGADAMBA, IN ADDITION to playing the role of the 'Alokik' Father or REAL PRAJAPITA or JAGATPITA), i.e., in ADDITION to being the Father to Righteous Children, REAL ShivBaba, Shiva or God is ALSO the TEACHER to the Righteous Children, THROUGH the corporeal body of REAL Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLR!

TRUTH 2 : REAL ShivBaba, Shiva or God gives the inheritance of Sovereignty in RamRajya to the Righteous Children THROUGH REAL Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLR - WHO IS ALSO THE REAL JAGADAMBA of the Righteous Children, and of the ENTIRE Humanity!

This PROVES that 'MAHA-MURK' -Virendra Dev Dixit, who is the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, is the 'Prajapita' of the Unrighteous children, through whom they receive the inheritance of sovereignty in Ravan Rajya, from Ravan or Maya, MASQUERADING as 'ShivBaba', through 'MAHA-MURKH' -Virendra Dev Dixit - which they consider to be 'Unlimited', and, IN FACT, this is so, from the point of view of Ravan Rajya!

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Re: COMMENTS on "SM & AV points for churning"

Post by sita » 27 Sep 2016

'Prajapita' of the Unrighteous children
I have never heard that definition in the Murli. I always thought Prajapita is Prajapita - Father to all - good and bad both. Same with Jagadamba. I would also not agree that ShivBaba or Jagadamba or Prajapita gives inheritance to righteous children only. Baba has said clearly many times - I give to all equally - children take number-wise. So it would be right to say that righteous children become righteous because they follow Shrimat and do righteous acts, so they develop righteous sanskars, their mind becomes righteous, they do righteous service, instead of disservice, etc.


= RESPONSE =

REAL Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLR is the REAL Prajapita (AS WELL AS, REAL, ORIGINAL, ETERNAL Jagadamba) of the ENTIRE HUMAN RACE.
However, the Unrighteous children DO NOT Re-Cognize, acknowledge or ACCEPT Brahma Baba as the 'Alokik' Parent - 'Alokik' Mother, AS WELL AS, 'Alokik' Father - as CLEARLY DECLARED by REAL ShivBaba, Shiva or God HIMSELF! These Unrighteous children consider the 'MAHA-MURKH', 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan or Maya, -Virendra Dev Dixit, MASQUERADING as (FALSE) 'ShivBaba', to be their 'Prajapita', and consider the CORRUPTED & ADULTERATED, REVERSED advanced knowledge, propagated through him, to be the 'Murli' of REAL ShivBaba, but, which is, IN FACT, the 'Murli' of (FALSE) 'ShivBaba', influenced by Ravan or Maya, by MISINTERPRETING, MISREPRESENTING & MISAPPROPRIATING EVERY Pure Version of REAL ShivBaba, Shiva or God, in the SMs & AVs, and propagating same through the 'MAHA-MURKH', 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan or Maya, -Virendra Dev Dixit, MASQUERADING as (FALSE) 'ShivBaba'!

Righteous Children become righteous because they follow the REAL Shrimat of REAL ShivBaba, Shiva or God, spoken/conveyed through the Lotus Mouth/Intellect of REAL Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLR, and perform righteous actions, so they develop righteous sanskars, and their mind and intellect also becomes righteous, so they do righteous service - (instead of disservice, like the Unrighteous children) - and become worthy to receive their inheritance of Sovereignty in RamRajya, in God's or Rama's REAL Paradise, during G A & S A.

Whereas, Unrighteous children become unrighteous because they VOLUNTARILY CHOOSE to follow the FALSE or CORRUPTED or ADULTERATED 'Shrimat' of Ravan or Maya, MASQUERADING as (FALSE) 'ShivBaba', through the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, -Virendra Dev Dixit, and perform unrighteous actions, so they develop unrighteous sanskars, and their mind and intellect also becomes unrighteous, so they do unrighteous service of propagating the CORRUPTED & ADULTERATED, REVERSED advanced knowledge, thus carrying out the 'shooting' of Ravan Rajya, in Confluence Age, to be able to receive the sovereignty in 'g a' and 's a' of Ravan's FALSE 'Paradise', commencing from the beginning of C A!

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Re: COMMENTS on "SM & AV points for churning"

Post by sita » 08 Oct 2016

From here:
viewtopic.php?f=40&p=51970#p51970
Whereas, Ravan or Maya TREACHEROUSLY TRICKS the Unrighteous children, through the ‘mukrar-rath’ of Ravan, into DELUSIVELY believing that ‘Paramdham’ or the ‘Supreme Abode’ has been brought down onto this corporeal sphere, into the forehead of their bodily ‘guru’, (who is ACTUALLY the ‘mukrar-rath’ of Ravan), who constantly remains in his ‘nirakari’ stage; and since ‘ShivBaba’ or God always resides within his forehead, they should remember ‘ShivBaba’ within the impure corporeal body of their bodily ‘guru’ - who claims himself to be the ‘Supreme Soul’, being ‘Supreme’ among ALL embodied human souls on this corporeal sphere!
It is said about the future that you children will bring down Paramdham to this world. It is said in the Murli. When children in soul-conscious stage gather and spread vibrations of peace and silence it will be as if Paramdham will be down in this world. The atmosphere will be such that every soul will be able to experience leaving its body-consciousness.

It is true that we can also consider the body as the resident place or home of the soul when it comes to this world, but no one claims that the soul in which the supreme Father comes is in constant incorporeal stage and there is no proof at all about any coming of the supreme Father at all, leave alone staying all the time.


= RESPONSE =
BKWSU AV 23.11.1981, Revised 09.10.2016 wrote: आज अनेक भुजाधारी बाप अपनी भुजाओं से अर्थात् सदा सहयोगी बच्चों से मिलने आये हैं।

Today, the Father with many Arms has come to Meet His Arms (hands), that is, He has come to meet His Children who are constantly co-operative.
According to -Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs, who is this Father who CAME to Meet His Children in their corporeal forms, in this corporeal World, at Mt Abu, on 23.11.1981, through the corporeal form of Dadi Gulzar?

Was it Supreme Father Supreme Soul, REAL ShivBaba, Shiva or God? If so, from WHERE did He come?
Since He COMES as the Father, then He should be the 'Parlokik' Father of ALL bodiless souls, is it not?

Was it the HIGHEST soul, among ALL embodied souls, REAL Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLR?
If so, from WHERE did he come? Since he COMES as the Father, then he should be the 'Alokik' Father of ALL embodied souls, is it not?

Was it the soul of Shankar 'Baba'? If so, from WHERE and HOW did he come?
Since he says that he is the Father, how can he be Shankar 'Baba', since ShivBaba has declared that Shankar is a subtle deity, who DOES NOT come on the corporeal sphere to play a part through a corporeal body, and that Shankar CANNOT be addressed as 'Baba'?

Who were the Children whom THIS Father came to Meet, in their corporeal forms, FACE to FACE?
Were they BKs or PBKs?

What has made it DIFFICULT or IMPOSSIBLE for ANY PBK to EVEN understand a SIMPLEST sentence of REAL ShivBaba, Shiva or God, when He comes to Meet His Children, in their corporeal forms, through the corporeal form of Dadi Gulzar? Would the PBKs stand to gain or to lose, by NOT Re-Cognizing, NOT REAL-EYEsing, or NOT ACCEPTING the role of God being played, in 'Avyakt', through the corporeal form of Dadi Gulzar?
Let EACH ONE decide for themselves, what they REQUIRE, ACCORDING to their role within this EWD play!

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Re: COMMENTS on "SM & AV points for churning"

Post by sita » 09 Oct 2016

You are distracting the subject. You know our beliefs. The soul of Brahma Baba comes, so he does not come from the thin air. And he, like the many BKs considers himself as the real Prajapita, hence the language. But if you are taking that as proof, it is as good as believing everyone uttering Shivohum, that he is Shiva because he says so.

Shankar Baba is not the language of the Murlis as you have rightly pointed out, and PBKs never use that language.


= RESPONSE =

What has made it DIFFICULT or IMPOSSIBLE for ANY PBK to EVEN understand a SIMPLEST sentence of REAL ShivBaba, Shiva or God, when He comes to Meet His Children, in their corporeal forms, through the corporeal form of Dadi Gulzar? Would the PBKs stand to gain or to lose, by NOT Re-Cognizing, NOT REAL-EYEsing, or NOT ACCEPTING the role of God being played, in 'Avyakt', through the corporeal form of Dadi Gulzar?
Let EACH ONE decide for themselves, what they REQUIRE, ACCORDING to their role within this EWD play!

If 'MAHA-MURKH', 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, -Virendra Dev Dixit, and the EQUALLY 'MAHA-MURKH' BLIND PBKs, VOLUNTARILY CHOOSE, and ARROGANTLY PREFER, to regard the HIGHEST soul, among ALL embodied souls - ACTUALLY being REAL Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLR - as a Spiritual 'Donkey' or as HiranyaKashyap;
and PREFER to CONSIDER, that the ACTUAL Spiritual 'Donkey', -Virendra Dev Dixit, who plays the role of ACTUAL HiranyaKashyap, by MASQUERADING as 'ShivBaba', 'Prajapita', 'Shankar', etc., is THEIR 'Prajapita' - by DELUSIVELY believing the 'DICTATES' of Ravan, through 'MAHA-MURKH' -Virendra Dev Dixit, to be the Shrimat or Murli of God - it is PURELY THEIR PERSONAL CHOICE!!!
There should be NO CAUSE for ANY SENSIBLE BK to meddle with these Spiritual IDIOTS, during the INTERVENING period, when they are ACTUALLY INVOLVED in carrying out their PRE-ORDAINED 'shooting' of Ravan Rajya, in Confluence Age, since ANY sort of DISCUSSION CAN NEVER assist them to merge these 'sanskars' -
which ONLY THE FINAL 'DESTRUCTION' IS PRE-ORDAINED TO ACHIEVE!
THAT IS THE SUBTLEST PURPOSE OF 'DESTRUCTION', WITHIN THIS EWD PLAY!!!

sita
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Re: COMMENTS on "SM & AV points for churning"

Post by sita » 09 Oct 2016

If you think our views are wrong, let that be a confirmation of the fact that only very few realize God as he is. Maybe you are one of them.

sita
Posts: 1300
Joined: 18 May 2011
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I would like to take part in healthy discussion on topics of knowledge, sharing with fellow souls, for common benefit.

Re: COMMENTS on "SM & AV points for churning"

Post by sita » 09 Jan 2017

On the SM and AV points for churning topic there were these points :
"The highest on high is one God and his name is Shiva."
and
"Shiva is always called Baba."

These points were quoted to show that the conception that highest refer to a human is wrong and Baba is not necessary meeting of the incorporeal and the corporeal and is about the point.

Let me first mention one point from the Murli. Souls are praised. When the body is pure, only then there could be worship. But it is said the body of this one (Brahma) can be worshiped. (because ShivBaba is in him). Anyway this point is to show that worship is done only to corporeal beings. To souls only there is praise. Of the ling it is worship, not praise. It proves there is a body included.

OK Shiva is the highest on high? What does it mean. The point of light is highest on high. How? It means that in Paramdham and in this world as well his stage is the highest, he resides the furthest away from the material world and even when he comes in the material world his awareness is always away from the material body and the material world. This stage is obviously achieved by the children who become Bap saman. Children are number-wise. There is one number one child who reaches the highest stage among all the children. He is the highest among the human beings. Shiva is higher than even him. That is why it is said not only highest, but highest on high. Higher than the highest one who is Prajapita or Shankar who is shown in the highest realms in the Subtle Region and closest to Shiva.

Shiva is always called Baba. Baba is indication of a relationship. Baba means Grandfather. Shiva has only this relationship towards the souls, he is creator, it is not that he will become a child, that children will give him knowledge and awake his awareness. He is always senior to the souls because it is said that the one who has the more knowledge he is bigger. Shankar is said to be the biggest child among the deities. And biggest brother is called Bap Saman. He is also shown with the third eye of knowledge. He is Father to the human souls as no one can teach him knowledge, but he teaches others, but the supreme Father is Father to even him and the knowledge in the form of the water of the Ganges that the soul of Shankar takes in his locks (in the form of intellect) comes from the Supreme Father Shiv. But this knowledge that has come through Brahma cannot be called nectar of knowledge. Nectar emerges after churning. And the Ganges of knowledge flows once more from the intellect (the locks) of Shankar to benefit the world.

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