VIEWS on "Murli points for churning and inculcation"

To discuss the BK and PBK versions relating to the progressive differential development of BK & PBK ideologies or theologies.
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Abhimanyu
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Re: Murli points for churning and inculcation

Post by Abhimanyu » 08 Aug 2015

LETTER OF FAITH (Nishchay Patra)

• Main thing is giving the introduction of mother & Father. If you have understood, then write it. Otherwise you have not understood anything. You must explain to them completely and then
ask them to write that certainly these souls are the world mother & world Father. They should
give in writing that we are getting inheritance from Father. When they give this in writing
then it can be concluded that you have done some service. (Mu. 2-3-87, pg-25, register-25)

• Sisters (bachhiyan) write that our voice has got choked (by explaining the knowledge
continuously). But you don’t have to elaborate too much. First explain the main matter and then take
written undertaking. Then talk about other things. You must explain completely only on the
picture of Trinity. If you have faith that these are your mother & Father then you will get
inheritance from them. (Mu 12-3-87 pg-25, register 25)

• You should take a written undertaking that we too want to obtain the inheritance from the
mother and Father, like you. He should also be informed that his address, etc., everything should
be there. ( in the written undertaking). (Mu 12-3-87 pg-25, register 25)


AIVV - PBK : We will get inheritance from mother and Father. So mother and Father must be alive then only the question of getting inheritance from them arises. BKs believe that Mama-Baba(Om Radhey Saraswati-Dada Lekhraj) were original mother and Father. But they have already left their bodies. Then who are original Mama-Baba from whom we have to take inheritance ?
Answer : Virendra Dev Dixit(Baba) and Kamla Devi Dixit(Mama)


PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : baba has saud- old points will not come into use. And, as time passes, there is no need to follow all the silly procedures.

See a Murli point here- SM 19-6-72(2):- Abhi tum jaante ho hum chadh rahe hain. Phir utrenge. SECOND LAGTA HAI CHADHNE MAY. BHAL TUMKO CHADHNEY MAY 25- 30 VARSH LAGTE HAIN. PICHAADI AANEVAALE SECOND MAY CHADH SAKTE HAIN. Ablaavon maataavon par kitney atyaachaar hote hain. -197- [wot, ER, second]

Moreoever, Avyakt Murli points do not stress these things too much. And, nowadays- BapDada does not meet children face to face very closely. Also - we can see many children are able to grasp easily. Baba has also said- there would be two types of creation, one MV, other through thoughts, and second will be teevr, and we can see that also. After B baba left his body, BKWSU grew like anything.

http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... pes#p12911

BTW, where is Jagadamba of AIVV since 1998? And, Narayan of AIVV is left without Lakshmi? Yet alone. How can he be called as Narayan?

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Re: Murli points for churning and inculcation

Post by Abhimanyu » 09 Aug 2015

DO NOT ASK

• A Brahma Kumari does not have any right to seek(ask) anything. It’s better to die, rather than seek(ask) anything. (4-10-73, pg-4)

• They keep seeking from the seekers of knowledge that we want this. Baba always says, “Do not ask.”...... One should not ask. Whatever you want can be obtained from ShivBaba. If you take it from anyone else then you will remember him or her. If you take everything from ShivBaba then you will be reminded of him repeatedly. ShivBaba says that your transactions are with me. This Brahma is a mediator in between. I am the giver. You maintain connection with me through Brahma. (25-1-72, pg-2)

• It’s better for Brahmakumaris to drown and die, rather than ask something from someone. Never ask. Today is ShivBaba’s birthday. Something should be sent. Do not ask like this. (4-4-72, pg-3)

• Father comes and makes (us) healthy. He gives vision isn’t it? Here you need not ask anything. Just follow the Shrimat. (16-6-72, pg-2)

• It’s better to die than to ask. One should not seek(ask) anything. Many children keep asking for power, mercy, blessings, etc. In the path of worship you have been experiencing downfall by begging and rubbing your forehead against the earth. Now there’s no necessity to ask anything. Father says: follow the directions.( 7-6-69 pg-1)

• One should not accept even paisa worth a cowrie. They think that these (sisters) come to tie a Rakhi. We will have to give something. Tell them that we do not want anything else. We just want the donation of five vices. We have come to take this donation. That’s why we tie this Rakhi. Remember Father and become pure. Then you can become like this (Lakshmi-Narayan). We cannot accept any amount. (30-4-75 pg-2)

• Always keep the picture in front of them. Do not even ask for money. Your work is to give them. If they have to give anything they will give on their own. If someone asks for price, you say that Baba is a friend of the poor. It is distributed freely for the poor. Butwhatever amount is given by rich people will be used by us for further printing.(12.2.78 pg-2)

• Baba always tells children, “Children, it is better to die rather than ask for anything. You have received the inheritance from Father. Then why do you ask? (28.7.77, pg.2)

• Do not become beggars who seek(ask) something, become donors. Do not have a desire to ask for respect, glamour, praise, dignity, etc. If you ask, then, just as the present day beggars will not be given anything, and will be chased away from a far off distance; similarly, those who seek in a royal way will automatically distance themselves from other souls (and from ShivBaba as well). (16-5-74)

• Justice should be done to us. Do not become seekers of justice even in the house of God. Then, the one who asks for something will not experience himself as a satisfied soul. (AV. 27-11-78 pg-77)


AIVV - PBK : Do Brahmakumaris not seek in royal form ?

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Mistakes will happen in BKWSU too. Why not? All are numberwise. If they do mistake, the marks will be reduced. That does not mean gyaan in BKWSU is wrong. If PBKs are so called gyaani tu atmas, then better discuss on Gyan. If they wish to point on people, it shows their level of thinking.

There are even greater mistakes. Of the 400, just 80 survived during beggary part, then again in 1976 many failed. And, even after that some failed as PBKs, ...

Post no. 72- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... aal#p11517

Even many from AIVV have left and have started their own groups.

It is said- Great minds think of ideas, average minds think of events, and weak minds think of people. So, better check yourself what is level of your mind.

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Re: Murli points for churning and inculcation

Post by Abhimanyu » 31 Aug 2015

REFINING & CHANGING

• In future Baba will tell many things. If he reveals everything now then what will he reveal in future? (25.9.73, pg.4)

• Baba is the bestower of divine vision, isn’t it? He keeps getting new pictures prepared. First a picture is prepared and then points are revealed. Then correction is required. (19.9.73, pg.3)

• Baba explains that Gita (a compilation of Murli points) is printed. So it should be printed in such a way that new points could be added. That Gita (Sanskrit Gita of Hindus) has been finished completely. This Gita does not finish completely. Until we are alive, you have to study till the end. Points will be revealed and will be added. (4.10.73, pg.2)

• As the time nears, the effect of the revelation of Pandava Army is spreading secretly. The form of service and the effect of service will certainly change according to the time. Just as now-a-days every thing is being converted from quantity to quality and being reduced in size through science, in such a way that the form is small but it contains more power. For e.g., the essence of sweetness is being brought out as saccharine. Expansion is being reduced to abstract. Pandava Army should also act similarly. (28.6.77, pg.1)

• Day by day the rules and regulations will be improved. The rules and regulations of the world will get worsened. (14.2.73, pg.3)

• Children will ask, “Why did you not reveal earlier that the Supreme Soul is like a point?” Father says, “At that time the role of revelation was not there.” One cannot say that why was this not revealed earlier. Arey! Why do you not study for ICS earlier? There are rules for studies also, isn’t it? (12.6.71, pg.2)

• Day by day you children will get deeper directions also. Did Baba speak about the soul being a point earlier? Now he explains that remember as a point. In future many more new points will be revealed. Day by day there will be improvement. (28.2.69, pg.2)


• Father says that I tell you deep matters day by day. The writing of these points is useful only at the time of lectures. And that too they look for the latest points. They will not use the old points. That is over. Then newer points should be imbibed and narrated. (2.4.69, pg.2)

• Day by day changes will take place in your museums and pictures, etc. Then “World God Father Spiritual University” will have to be written at every center. (12.4.69, pg.4)

• Father also used to explain in the previous Kalpa (cycle). Now he is explaining that Shiva is a jyotirlingam (a lingam in the form of a flame). Now it is explained that “No. He is like a star. He is not so big (like a jyotirlingam)”. Now whatever was ordained to be explained in the drama was explained at that time. Now (it is ordained in) the drama to explain more deeply. He explains that there is nothing to get confused in this. Whatever Baba had explained yesterday is changed and explained in subtle form. So it can be said that, as per drama, whatever had to be narrated at whatever time, was narrated at that time. Whatever was to be told yesterday was told yesterday. Whatever is to be told today is being said now. Did you understand? If you have faith in the drama then you will not get confused. (5.3.73, pg.1, night class)

• Father keeps narrating deeper points. Whatever knowledge he used to narrate earlier was not understood properly. Now many points are given which helps in better understanding. Earlier the theory of two fathers was not told. The deep points which are narrated cannot be imbibed by everybody. Everyone cannot study in the same manner. They are number-wise. Father keeps explaining everyday. (11.11.68, pg.1)

• The thing that is refined, although less in quantity is powerful in quality. Something that is not refined will be more in quantity, and low in quality. ... Refined thing does not grope in dark. It picks up speed. (AV. 12.6.72, pg.303, 304)

• It is wonderful that those who have come late gallop faster than those who arrived first, because now day by day children receive refined points. Sapling is being laid. It has to stay for 50 years.(2.10.76, pg.3)

• This ladder will become very nice. The writing should be very clear in it. “Those who love God at the time of destruction will be victorious” should be written on the top and “Those who think against God at the time of destruction will be destroyed” should be written at the bottom. (6.10.76, pg.3)

• Day by day the points of knowledge get deeper and deeper. So the pictures will also be changed. The intellect of the children also changes. Was it explained earlier that ShivBaba is a point. Will you ask that why it was not told like this earlier? Father says that how could all these matters have been explained earlier? (6.10.76, pg.2)


Those who pay full attention towards the knowledge will keep making corrections , etc., in the pictures. (27.11.76, pg.3)

• Now the list of expansion (of ELEVATED Children) is incomplete. Nine lakhs are not yet ready (PRIOR 1985). Meeting will take place through some way or the other, isn’t it? The method keeps changing. (For) those who met in the corporeal form and are now meeting in the subtle (Avyakt) form, the mode has changed, isn’t it? The mode will keep changing in future also. The mode of meeting will also keep changing as per the expansion (of children understanding the Knowledge). (AV. 14.12.85, pg.94)

• Day by day deeper matters are narrated. So, then the older pictures should be changed and new ones should be prepared. This will continue until then. (25.4.71, p.1)

• Day by day improvement will take place. Sometimes children forget to mention the date in the pamphlet. The date should be mentioned in the picture of Lakshmi & Narayana without fail. (3.6.70, pg.1)

• Father keeps narrating new points day by day. So what is required? True Gita should be prepared. Then its first volume, second volume, third volume should be released. You can publish this Gita in any newspaper. ...... Day by day new points are narrated. So the points from Baba’s Murli should be collected. Then a True Gita should be released containing some old points and some new points. (13.3.75, pg.1-2)

• Day by day knowledge gets deeper. The student remembers his aim and objective. (27.4.84,pg.2)

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Re: Murli points for churning and inculcation

Post by Abhimanyu » 03 Sep 2015

MADHUBAN

One must imbibe sweetness and detachment (vairagya). This is the main feature of Madhuban. Such a soul is called the resident of Madhuban. If someone possesses these features, although he stays outside, he will be called a 'resident' of Madhuban. (AV.18-11-76 pg-2)

In Madhuban Baba himself comes running. (The place where he is invited, cannot be called Madhuban)
(5-9-77 pg-3)

There are no other business here. That’s why Madhuban is praised. One should stay in solitude (stage) to become strong. It’s as if the world doesn’t exist for you. (16-2-68 pg-4)

What is called Madhuban? Wherever there’s a gathering of Brahmins, it’s Madhuban. So make every place of foreign countries a Madhuban. If you make Madhuban, BapDada (Supreme Soul Shiva & Brahma Baba DLR) will also come, (in 'Avyakt') because it’s the promise of Father that He will come in Madhuban. So wherever there’s a Madhuban, there’s BapDada (in 'Avyakt'). In future you will see a lot of wonders. ... in such a gathering, BaapDada is also present (in 'Avyakt'). Do you feel happy there or in coming here? Whatever you may say, but big is big, and small is small, because there’s a special importance of the birth place and place of actions and Drama of the DIRECT corporeal body (of Brahma Baba DLR).... So there is an importance of the place, but expand your garden. Prepare a layout like Madhuban. When there is even a mini madhuban, then everyone will be attracted to see.
(AV. 11-2-78)

This Abu (in Rajasthan) is a very big pilgrimage centre. Father says, “I come here only and purify everyone, including the five elements of the entire world.” It’s such a big service. Only ONE Father is there, who serves everyone. (18-1-71 pg-2)

There’s no rule of rush here. The work will go on in an incognito form. (11-1-73)

This Madhuban is the place of affixing a final stamp or seal. For e.g., in a post office a letter is dispatched after applying the stamp finally. This is also Madhuban (at Mt Abu), the stamp to become entitled to heaven. Coming to Madhuban means earning crores of times. (AV. 21-1-71)

A building worth crores of rupees has not been built for this university. This house has been constructed. In the end children will come and stay. Those who are meditative will come and stay. They will see destruction through their eyes. (28-10-78 pg-3)

This Madhuban (at Abu in Rajasthan) is Confluence Age, where you listen DIRECTLY from Father (Supreme Soul Shiva - through Brahma Baba, in 'Sakar' until 1969, and in 'akar' todate). There Brahmanis (sisters) sit and narrate. Here ShivBaba (Supreme Soul Shiva) explains DIRECTLY. There is a lot of effect of this place. (26-10-71)

You residents of Madhuban perform every act along with the Father, isn’t it? Does any one
else have such great luck that every act is performed in Madhuban along with the Father of
Madhuban. Father is present
everywhere (in 'Avyakt') in Madhuban, isn’t it? So the speciality of the residents of Madhuban is that they perform every act with the Father. ... Those who always live in this experience are called the residents of Madhuban. Whenever you do not experience this, you are not the residents of Madhuban. At that time in spite of being in Madhuban, they are not the residents of Madhuban, and those living far away, who perform every act with Father, are the residents of Madhuban, in spite of being far away. Residents of Madhuban are companions in every act (charitra). Bhagwat (a Hindu scripture containing details of the life of Krishna and the miracles performed by him) is a reminder of Madhuban. (AV. 21-10-87 pg-4)

Madhuban has a specialty that every time some or the other new addition takes place. (AV. 14-12-83 )

Madhuban is a great land. Greatest luck is also (earned) there and greatest sin is also (earned) there. If someone speaks wasteful things after going to Madhuban then it becomes a big sin. (AV. 12-3-84 pg-210)

This is a wonderful university. It looks like a house also. But Father only is the true teacher. It’s a house as well as a school. That’s why many people cannot understand whether it is a house or a school.
(AV. 22-4-84 Pg-265)

This is a Godly work that’s going on. It’s not an ordinary matter. One should experience this after coming here. ... The revelation of the practical part of Father should be seen practically on the land of incarnation through all the ways and means. (AV. 17-5-72 pg-28)

Madhuban is the land of transformation….... Madhuban is called Mahayagya (great sacrificial fire) or Rajaswa Ashwmedha Yagya (a royal sacrificial altar where a king sends a horse along with his army in all the directions of the world to prove his supremacy by defeating any other king who stops the horse from entering his kingdom). So offerings (aahuti) are put into the Yagya…... Do you act according to the name that you have given? The name is Mahayagya, land of transformation, land of boons. So act according to the name. (AV. 24-10-75 pg-223)

Here it’s spiritual business. In the remaining world it’s physical business. Actually the entire business takes place among the souls. (7-9-76)

To which place is the proverb—‘our house is donor’s house’ (apna ghar data ka ghar) applicable? Actually our house and donors house is Madhuban, isn’t it? You have come to our house i.e. donor’s house. Ghar (house) or dar (door) is one and the same. One gets comforts on coming to house, isn’t it? Comforts of mind, body and also money. Here you need not go out to work to earn. You are even relieved of the worry of cooking and then eating. Here you get readymade food in a plate. Here you have become deities (thakur). For e.g., they ring the bells in the temples of deities, isn’t it? They ring the bells to wake up the deities or send them to sleep. They ring the bell while offering them Bhog also. Bells are rung for you also. Now a days the time is fashionable. So they play the record…..... The offering of Bhog to living deities begins from 4 A.M. onwards. ... God is serving the children in living form. Everyone serves God but here whom does the God serve? The living deities. (AV. 25-11-85 pg-56)

The directions regarding special programmes of the journey of remembrance should be issued officially from Madhuban so that the fort of souls remains strong. (AV. 3-8-75,pg-76)

The photos should be taken both on the first day of arrival at Madhuban and at the time of
departure.
(15-3-84)

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Re: Murli points for churning and inculcation

Post by Abhimanyu » 04 Sep 2015

ROLE of UNMANIFEST BRAHMA BABA THROUGH the BODY of B.K. Gulzar Dadi
AIVV - PBK and PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK CONTRASTING VIEWPOINTS
AIVV - PBK : ONLY soul of BRAHMA BABA ENTERS BODY of Dadi Gulzar, and NOT Shiva
- comments & 'heading' Murli points by 'Abhimanyu'.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : BapDada, or Souls of BOTH Shiva and BRAHMA BABA, TOGETHER, ENTER BODY of Dadi Gulzar, in 'Avyakt' - comments & supporting Murli points by 'mbbhat'.


• Not that children are welcoming BaapDada. No, Baba cannot be welcomed; Baba will come on His own will. (12.4.76, Pg.1)

AIVV - PBK : What happens at Mt. Abu, when there is Avyakt BapDada program? Gulzar Dadi sits in 'dhyan' and soul of Krishna(Lekhraj Kirpalani) is invoked. But according to the above Murli point Baba(referred to Shiva here) cannot be welcomed, because he comes on his own will. This is so because Shiv does not have ego of body as he does not possess his own body, thus he doesn't need respect, but it is not the same case with human souls, they have ego of body due to which they need respect. So cannot we conclude from the above Murli point that it is only the soul of Brahma(Lekhraj Kirpalani) that enters Gulzar Dadi and not the soul of Shiva?

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Baba has also said that the Father is a servant and egoless. So, when children call him, he would definitely come. There is a Sakar Murli point which clearly says: "baap ko kahaa jaataa hai, niarahankaari, toh vah bhee dikhaanaa padey na"
= "Father is praised as egoless, so He would demonstrate that also, is it not?"
And, indeed, till 1969, ShivBaba used to come sometimes even twice, and sometimes even thrice also (night class); and I have heard here from a member (mostly Shivsena) saying there had been even two night classes by ShivBaba. Besides, the above Murli point refers to welcoming 'BaapDada', i.e. BOTH Bap & Dada, i.e. BOTH Supreme Soul Shiva as well as Brahma Baba; and Brahma Baba also becomes an UNLIMITED world servant and EGOLESS, when he becomes a 'sampana, sampurna, Avyakt farishta' or a COMPLETE ANGEL, after 1969, and therefore he also does not possess a corporeal body of his own after this period, and hence does not need respect, as in the case of embodied human souls (like -Virendra Dev Dixit), who still have ego of the body.

*- An Avyakt Murli point- "Bachche master hai, toh bap ko bhee bachchon kee baath maan_nee padtee hai",
= "The Children are Masters, so the Father also has to listen to the request of the Children" - something like that.

This Murli point was applicable for that EARLIER period, specifically. But, as number of children increase, then obviously, the 'milan' or Meeting dates of ShivBaba have to be pre-fixed in advance, as children have to arrange for reservations by train in advance, etc. Note that Baba has clearly said- old points will not come into use for later situations - viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2111&p=31862&hilit=purani#p31862

And, see post No. 76 - here- viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2422&p=49634#p49623 where query of bhagirath soul is addressed. This Murli point gives a high probability that there is someone other than B baba in body of Gulzar Dadi to speak such words.


• Baba himself comes running to Madhuban. (5.9.77, Pg.3)

AIVV - PBK : Not on being invoked as in the case of Gulzar Dadi.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Refers to the EARLIER period, as mentioned above. NOW, it actually cannot be considered as invoking, since dates are pre-fixed by Baba Himself, in advance, through trance messengers, purely for convenience. Baba himself comes in accordance with the dates, fixed in advance by Him only. Various Versions in the AVs confirm these aspects CLEARLY and UNAMBIGUOUSLY.


• Nobody comes to know when I enter, because I am incognito. You children are also incognito....one cannot know when I enter, when I mount (ascend) the Chariot. (26.1.68, Pg1)

AIVV - PBK : In the case of Gulzar Dadi everyone assumes that Shiva has now entered Gulzar Dadi during Avyakt BapDada program.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : This is already discussed IN DETAIL on the forum. Now, both ShivBaba and Brahma Baba come, that is why it is known. Had it been just ShivBaba entering in Dadi, then it would not have been known. When Dadi's souls gets merged, there is a slight jerk in the body; while the EXACT INSTANT when BapDada ACTUALLY enter CANNOT BE ACCURATELY DETERMINED, and the stage lights are brightened only when the eyes of the body open again.


• (Some) children say, “Today Baba entered into my body and narrated Murli.” Did your body feel any weight? None. There is not any kind of trouble. (7.5.73)

AIVV - PBK : Gulzar Dadi experiences the 'weight'.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : There it was just ShivBaba, and it was for just few minutes. The child may be of younger age. Even in Guzar Dadi, there had been no problem at all, when her body was younger. Now, her body is very old in age, so obviously there can be a little bit of difficulty experienced with the instrumental Chariot. But, surprisingly, Mr Dixit dozes while giving drushti, which is already put in the forum - viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1991&p=42158&hilit=dozing#p42158

And- The soul of Gulzar Dadi does not experience any 'weight' here due to BapDada at all, since that soul is 'merged' and has no awareness of her body at all; it is due to its own weakness and characteristic that the body gets affected, (when her body would be having some illness, and rest would have been advised for her body).


• (God Shiva) enters into (the body of) that person whose role is fixed in the Drama, and names him Brahma (BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani)....if He comes in someone else then he too will have to be named Brahma. (19.3.78, Pg.2)

AIVV - PBK : Now nobody calls Gulzar Dadi as 'Brahma'.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Already discussed on this forum, (I will have to search), as well as explained here - Post No. 93 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... zar#p12058
Gulzar Dadi cannot be named Brahma, since this is not a 'Sakar' entry, and she is not aware of the proceedings at all. Only the soul of 'Avyakt' Brahma Baba is aware of the proceedings, during the Meeting. It is astonishing to note that only the latter part of the sentence has been highlighted by AIVV, to take advantage of same, by MISINTERPRETING same, while the earlier part of the sentence has conveniently been dodged or deliberately overlooked, which CLEARLY CONFIRMS that the Chariot of Brahma Baba is FIXED within Drama for entry of ShivBaba to perform his designated role in 'Sakar'.

• The name 'Brahma' cannot change ever. (God Shiva) establishes through Brahma, so how can He enter into other's body (OTHER than BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani) ? If He comes in another (person), then he too will have to be named Brahma. (17.3.3.73, Pg.2)

AIVV - PBK : Now nobody calls Gulzar Dadi as 'Brahma'.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Already explained above. ONCE AGAIN, it is astonishing to note that only the latter part of the sentence has been highlighted by AIVV, to take advantage of same, by MISINTERPRETING same, while the earlier part of the sentence has conveniently been dodged or deliberately overlooked, which CLEARLY CONFIRMS that ShivBaba CANNOT ENTER ANY OTHER BODY (in 'Sakar') OTHER than the corporeal body of Brahma Baba, to perform his designated role in 'Sakar'.


• This Baba (BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani) also knows that I have given this house-like body on rent. As per Drama, He (Shiva) doesn't have to take any other house (OTHER than BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani). Every Kalpa (Cycle) He (Shiva) has to take this house only (of BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani). (2.12.68, Pg.2)

AIVV - PBK : In the BK world, Shiva has to only take the body of Lekhraj Kirpalani. So how can BKs claim the entry of Shiva in Gulzar Dadi during Avyakt BapDada program?

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : As said earlier- it was for that period, till 1969- Note again the Murli point which says- old points will not come into use. BTW, this Murli point clearly says- till that time, ShivBaba had not entered anyone else; thus it FULLY DISPROVES claim of PBKs saying ShivBaba had entered in some Sevakram, before Lekhraj Kirpalani.
ONCE AGAIN, it is astonishing to note that AIVV chooses to MISREPRESENT EVERY POINT in SMs and AVs, in SOME WAY or the OTHER, just to give credence to their DISTORTED point of view! Whereas, in this case, they have used the point, to confirm that ShivBaba ONLY takes the body of Brahma Baba, and hence imply that He cannot take another body, i.e. Dadi Gulzar - but at the same time they have conveniently THROWN IN their own MISINTERPRETATION to imply that this applies to the BK World only, leaving room for ShivBaba to come in 'Sakar' again in the PBK World! In this manner, Maya or Ravan is afforded the privilege of TWISTING & CORRUPTING EACH and EVERY point in SMs and AVs to CONFRONT & OPPOSE GOD, in the Confluence Age, as per Drama Plan! And NUMBERS are created, based on the ability of souls to CLEARLY DISCERN the latent anomalies!

Example of Murli point given below:
SM 30-6-81(3):- Sabhi besamajh ban gaye hain. Baap sabhi bachchon ko kahte hain tum kitne besamajh ban gaye ho. Kya main byel ke oopar savari karta hun jo tum mandir may byel dikhate ho? Main to EK HEE BAAR, EK HEE TAN may AATAA hun.
= All have become fools. Father tells all the children that you have become such fools? You show 'bull' in the temple. Do I ride on a 'bull'? I COME JUST ONCE AND JUST IN ONE BODY.

So- by manipulating this Murli point to suit their philosophy, PBKs are PROVING their own claims to be FALSE. How can they claim ShivBaba enters someone OTHER than Brahma Baba, before or after him?


• Supreme Father Supreme Soul doesn’t give any inspiration, etc. Neither does the Supreme Father Supreme Soul enter into anyone's body, EXCEPT ONE. (ONLY of BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani). For Him it's called divine other-worldly (aloukik) birth. (17.4.61, Pg.1)

AIVV - PBK : Many BKs say that today ShivBaba gave me such and such inspiration.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : View here- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... ion#p15188
YET AGAIN, it is astonishing to note that only the earlier part of the sentence has been highlighted by AIVV, to take advantage of same, by MISINTERPRETING same, while the latter part of the sentence has conveniently been dodged or deliberately overlooked, which CLEARLY CONFIRMS that ShivBaba CANNOT ENTER ANY OTHER BODY, EXCEPT ONE (that of Brahma Baba).


• No other soul can enter into a body as I do. Although the souls of the religious fathers who come (from the Soul World) also enter into (someone’s) body, but this matter is different. (8.10.74, Pg.1)

AIVV - PBK : What's the difference between entry of human souls and Supreme Soul. When some human soul(or Ghost) enters into someone then the facial expressions of that person changes, because of the pressure of the astral body of ghost(just like the case when soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani enters Gulzar Dadi). Also the Chariot becomes unconscious and has to read the Avyakt Vani afterwards(Gulzar Dadi reads the same Avyakt Vani afterwards). Whereas in the entry of Supreme Soul the Chariot experiences lightness and also the Chariot is able to recognize the words spoken by Shiva.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Already explained extensively and comprehensively above. It is not just Shiv entering Dadi Gulzar, there is also subtle body of Brahma Baba along with Shiv, which is the reason for change in facial expression. And, more interesting why Dadi goes to 'sleep like stage' during Avyakt BapDada's entry is - she can never take seat of Brahma. So, she has to go into that 'merged' stage. Even Sakar Murlis were words of Brahma Baba and ShivBaba. So, Avyakt Vanis/Murlis also are the SAME. Even when children see face of Dadi, they will have to sense just BapDada in her, and not Dadi. Then children will not get caught in 'naamroop' - name and forms of Dadi - WHICH IS A VERY SIGNIFICANT ASPECT TO BE UNDERSTOOD. So, Dadi should go into 'incognito mode' during the 'milan' or Meeting with BapDada.
But, souls with gross intellects are NOT EXPECTED to CLEARLY COMPREHEND these SUBTLE ASPECTS AT ALL !!!


• As per the Drama plan, CHANGE TAKES PLACE when I have to come. (15.1.84, Pg.1)


• Just as Brahmins are called and ghosts also enter into them, so they are souls is not it? Ghosts do their work, then their role (i.e. the role of the Brahmins, in whom the ghosts enter) stops. (12.7.73, Pg.3)

AIVV - PBK : In the case of Gulzar Dadi the role of Lekhraj Kirpalani(who now is like a ghost) is still continuing after so many years.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Baba is refering to lowkik braahmins here. But, the one who comes in Dadi is a 'sampurna farishta' or COMPLETE ANGEL. Once again, the point has been EVIDENTLY MALICIOUSLY MISAPPROPRIATED & MISREPRESENTED!


• Baba explains that the person in whom Baba has entered has nothing to do with pomp & show. The clothes are also the same. (9.2.76, Pg.1)

AIVV - PBK : There is lot of pomp & show in Avyakt BapDada program. Music is played. Lights are turned red. Plus the clothes of Gulzar Dadi is saree & blouse, which is different from what Lekhraj Kirpalani used to wear. So the clothes are not the same.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : There is an Avyakt Murli point saying- "Brahma Baap ek hee kapdaa pahnaa" = "Brahma Baba started to wear only one type of clothes" (means just one type of dress, one colour-white dress - he sacrificed all other types, like suits and whatever he used to wear earlier). Even here, Dadi's dress is simple and same - one type and colour. And, music, etc., are not pomp, but only to create a serene atmosphere for the benefit of the newer children. All the children are sitting peacefully.

BTW- funny comment- "Plus the clothes of Gulzar Dadi is saree & blouse, which is different from what Lekhraj Kirpalani used to wear. So the clothes are not the same."
Do PBKs expect Dadi also should wear similar clothes like Brahma Baba? Or are they trying to prove that God enters Mr Dixit, as now Mr Dixit also wears same type of clothes like Brahma Baba? To what extent they like to copy?
[Whose churning is this? Is it by an individual only or that initiated by their Chariot?]


• Baba will not sit in big gatherings.(4.9.73, Pg.2)

AIVV - PBK : There is gathering of thousands during Avyakt BapDada program.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : It is said for lowkik gatherings of the outer world; and again I would like to remind, "old points will not come into use", so it is said for that period of time only, and does not apply to a later period, when there is EXPANSION.


• Does teaching take place over loudspeakers? How will the teacher ask questions? How can the response be given over loudspeaker? That is why teaching is imparted to a few students.(24.1.71, Pg.3)

AIVV - PBK : Well during Avyakt BapDada program Gulzar Dadi speaks on loudspeaker.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Note the word RESPONSE here. In lowkik, there are some cases, where just a pre-recorded message/class will be played in the class. Even today, people listen to just some classes of some swamijis, and harikathas, etc. Best example is classes available on the internet. So, baba says, that is not possible, here, means just loud speakers are not enough, but a human personality is also necessary. And, now, when the gyaan is made simple, no need to give so much response like before, (since Children have to develop the expertise of receiving any response from BapDada, in their subtle stage of consciousness), so again just loud speakers are enough. The Murli point clearly says- about RESPONSE. Moreover, the MAIN TEACHING was ALREADY COMPLETED through the corporeal body of Brahma Baba by 1969, and thereafter ShivBaba and Brahma Baba come only to entertain the children, and give further subtler training to help them to develop their subtle and seed stages further.

Does not Mr Dixit speak on loud speaker?

Just think- If a mike is placed in front of the Chariot, will God immediately leave it? Silly, is it not?.


• I do not enter into the Subtle Region dweller, the deity Brahma. The Subtle Region dweller Brahma is also to be purified by me.(4.11.72, Pg.1)

AIVV - PBK : The BKs say that Shiva enters Subtle Region dweller Lekhraj Kirpalani, and then they combined together enter Gulzar Dadi.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Already discussed at various places on this forum, as well as here- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... aa.#p12446

http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... jaa.#p4080

Post No. 25 to 28- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... atan#p4079

This Murli point was spoken, keeping the belief of lowkik people in mind.
Sample Murli points are put here-

SM 10-11-76(1):- PRAJAPITA BRAHMA KO MANUSHY SAMAJHTHAY HAIN SOOKSHMAVATAN MAY HAIN. Ab sookshmvatan may praja toh ho na sakey. Srushti rachtey hain Brahma mukh kamal se, toh zaroor is srushti par hogaa na. -14, 200 [Prajapita]
= People believe that Prajapita Brahma resides in Subtle Region. Now- in Subtle Region- praja/citizens cannot be created. Citizens would be in this corporeal world. [See, this Murli point was spoken before 1969. Which Bk would have thought that Brahma was in Subtle Region, AT THAT TIME? So, it is clear that this was spoken by keeping lowkik people in mind, AT THAT TIME]. Again, note once again the Murli point saying- Old points will not come into use; so this point would be applicable to that period ONLY.

SM 5-8-76(2):- MANUSHYON KO ITNAA GYAAN HAI NAHEEN. SIRF KAHTE HAIN B, V, S SOOKSHMVATAN MAY HAIN. BAAKI UNHON KE OCCUPATION KA PATAA NAHEEN. -92 [Prajapita, Subtle Region]
= People do not have enough knowledge. They just say B,V,S reside in Subtle Region. They do not know their occupation.

SM 26-10-83(1):- ShivBaba samjhaate hain bachchon ko is Brahma ke rath dwara. ... Mujhe apna rath nahin. Mujhe rath toh zaroor chaahiye. Jaise tum harek atma ko apna2 rath hai na. BVS ko bhi sookshm sharir hai na. ...............To Baap kahte hain main aavoon toh kaise? Kiske sharir may avoon? Pahley2 toh mujhe Prajapita chaahiye. SOOKSHMVATANVAASI PRAJAPITA KO YAHAAN KAISE LE AA SAKTAA? VAH TOH FARISTA HAI NA. UNKO PATIT DUNIYAA MAY LE AAVOON, YE TOH DOSH HO JAAYE. KAHENGE MAINEY KYAA GUNAAH KIYAA. Baap samjhaate hain badi ramaneek baatein hain. Samjhegaa vo hi jo baap kaa banaa hogaa. Ghadi2 baap ko yad kartaa rahega. Baap kahte hain main aataa hun, jab dharti par paap badh jaataa hai. Kaliyug may manushy kitney paap karte hain. Bhrashthaachaar hai. Bandar misal ek do ko daraate rahte hain. Baath math poocho. Toh bap poochte hain, bachche, bataavo- main aavoon, toh kis tan may aavoon. MUJHE CHAAHIYE BHI VRUDDH ANUBHAVI RATH. YAH JO MAINE RATH LIYAA HAI, BAROBAR INKAY BAHUT GURU KIYE HUYE HAIN. SHAASTR AADI PADHAA HUVAA HAI. Yah bhi likhaa hai na, bahut padhaa huvaa thaa. Arjun ki baath nahin. Mujhe arjun ka, va Krishn ka rath thode hi chaahiye. Mujhe toh chaahiye brahma ka rath. Unko hi Prajapita kahenge. Krishn ko toh Prajapita nahin kahenge. Manushyon ki buddhi may kitni moorkhataa bhari huyi hai. Kuch bhi samajhte nahin. Baap ko toh brahma ka hi rath chaahiye jis_sey braahmanon ki prajaa rache. Braahmanon ka hai sarvottam kul. Virat roop dikhaate hain na. D, K, V, S. baaki braahman kahaan gaye? Yah kisko bhi pataa nahin. Oonch te oonch hai braahmanon ki choti. -27- [Prajapita]-vimp
=................ In whose body should I come? First I need Prajapita. How can I bring the subtle word Prajapita here? here. He is angel, is it not? If I bring him in the impure world, it would be faulty. He will complain what wrong/sin have I done (to bring me in this impure world)? These are 'ramaneek'(DEEP, SUBTLE) matters…....

SM 8-11-76(2):- Sookshmvatan may jo Brahma dikhaate hain, vah toh paavan hai. Sookshmvatan may Prajapita toh ho nahin saktaa. Baap samjhaate hain yah vyakt hai, yah jhaad may bhi pichaadi may khadaa hai. Yahaan bachchon sahit Yoga may baithay hain pavitr faristaa ban_ne liye. TOH SOOKSHMVATAN MAY BHI DIKHAANAA PADEY. YAHAAN BHI PRAJAPITA BRAHMA ZAROOR CHAAHIYE. Vah Avyakt, yah vyakt. Tum bhi faristaa ban_ne liye aaye ho na. Ismey hee manushy moonjhte hain. Kyonki yah hai bilkul nayaa gyaan. -11- [Prajapita, BHI]
= The Brahma shown in Subtle Region is pure. Prajapita cannot be in Subtle Region. Father explains- this is vyakt (corporeal). This is standing at the end/bottom in the (picture of) tree. He is seated with the children doing Yoga to become angel/farista. So- (PPB in subtle form) should also be shown in Subtle Region. Here also PPB is definitely necessary. This is vyakt. That is Avyakt. You also have come to become farista, is it not? In this point only people get confused. Because this is totally new knowledge.*

SM 24-9-73(3):- Sthaapnaa karnevaalaa hai Parampita Paramatma- IS BRAHMA DWARA. Yah bhi Baba ne samjhaayaa hai sookshmvatanvaasi ko Prajapita nahin kahenge. Vahaan Praja hoti nahin. Toh zaroor Prajapita Brahma yahaan hoga. Vah hee phir Avyakt sampoorn banega. Vah toh hai Avyakt. Zaroor vyakt bhi chaahiye jo phir Avyakt hona hai. Donon abhi dikhaayi padte hain. PRAJAPITA BRAHMA YAHAAN BHI HAI TOH SOOKSHMVATAN MAY BHI HAI. Prajapita toh zaroor yahaan chaahiye. Zaroor Prajapita Brahma ke bachche bhi yahaan hee hain. Tum sabko kah sakte ho Prajapita jo vyakt hai vahee phir Avyakt hona chahiye. = SM 14-9-83(3)
= The one who creates is Supreme Godfather-through THIS Brahma. Baba has also explained that the subtle Brahma cannot be called as Prajapita. There is no praja(citizen). So definitely Prajapita would be here. He only will then become Avyakt. That is Avyakt(subtle). Definitely vyakt(corporeal) is also needed who will become Avyakt. Both are seen now. PRAJAPITA BRAHMA IS HERE AS WELL AS IN Subtle Region. Prajapita should be here. Definitely Prajapita Brahma’s children also would be here. You can tell all, that the Prajapita who is corporeal himself will/should then become subtle. [VVIMP][118]

[Few more Murli points are scattered over in other posts there. If possible, I will mention all the post numbers in future.] But, it is clear that Baba has said many times that the same vyakt Brahma, then becomes Avyakt, when he finally leaves the body.
But AGAIN, souls with gross intellects are NOT EXPECTED to CLEARLY COMPREHEND these SUBTLE ASPECTS AT ALL !!!

• The role of my arrival is only in the Confluence Age. Not that I come on being called by you (at any OTHER TIME in the Kalpa or Cycle). When it's the time for my arrival (in the Confluence Age), I come at the accurate time, neither a second late nor a second early. Do I possess any organs to listen to your pleas (on the path of devotion or in Ravan Rajya, or at any OTHER time in the Cycle)... When the time comes I come and purify the sinful. Not that God listens to our cries. (6.12.76, Pg.3)

AIVV - PBK : Shiva doesn't come on being called. So how can he come on being called by BKs during Avyakt BapDada program?

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Baba is referring to that HALF of the Cycle of the PATH of Devotion or Ravan Rajya; that is, even if devotees call, He will not come, He will come in Confluence Age only. (see the word Confluence Age in the Murli point). As already indicated above, BKs DO NOT CALL HIM, but He Himself pre-fixes the dates of his coming to Meet the children in 'Avyakt'.

Interestingly, when I questioned the same to a PBk when he put this question to me- "so even in AIVV Gitapathashals is it not informed earlier about coming of Virendra Dev Dixit", he said "No". Then I asked - how can then children make use of Virendra Dev Dixit(Baba of PBKs)? [If not informed, children may not be knowing about coming of Baba and likely to miss, is it not? ]. Then he said - Mr Dixit's plan of tour will be informed to the relevant Gita pathashalas just before a couple of days, not much earlier (so that the teachers there will be able to inform the students that their baba is visiting the place). Obviously, he was not comfortable with my question, but had to agree that Mr Dixit's arrival at any Gita pathshala would have to be informed before-hand, and it cannot be like a surprise visit!

See the double standards- On one hand , they say- when God comes no one will know IN ADVANCE, but then they inform the Githapathashalas about the Chariot's visit IN ADVANCE. But, Murli point clearly says- "Yah gyaan sagar (or the Chariot) gali2 may naheen jaayegaa"". = " This Ocean of Knowledge or the Chariot will NOT GO in by-lanes." (while speaking the Versions, although the Chariot may visit other places sometimes).
But Mr Dixit travels all over the country to 'speak the distorted versions', claiming same are from ShivBaba.


• Father comes in the night only. When does He come? There is no date of birth for Him. Date of birth is in respect of those who take physical birth (through a mother's womb). This is the unworldly (paarloukik) Father. He doesn’t take a worldly birth. Date and time of birth, etc., is given in respect of Krishna. (9.3.75, Pg.1)

AIVV - PBK : How do BKs celebrate Shivjyanti when there's no date of birth for him ?

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : It is just to give message and facilitate spiritual service. Moreover Murli point says- to celebrate Shiv jayanti. But, they are not specific about date here. Some centres celebrate on Sundays, some on Thursdays, some on convenient days (of course, very close to the lowkik dates of Shivratri).

*- In the same Murli point, Baba says, Prajapita Brahma cannot be in Subtle Region, and then says, he is in both the corporeal and Subtle Regions. This reminds me of the MISREPRESENTED Murli point, saying- Lekhraj cannot become Prajapita ? dated 23rd July 2015 - here - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2611#p49612

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Re: Murli points for churning and inculcation

Post by Abhimanyu » 10 Sep 2015

SPEAKING TO THE RESIDENTS OF MADHUBAN

• The residents of Madhuban have a boon of tireless service. So you are tireless, isn’t it? Should the fair (mela) continue? The further you progress, the bigger the fair will be. It shall not decrease. It will increase as much as you increase it…..What is the new way of making efforts that the residents of Madhuban have invented?....Bring out a new invention of easy efforts and experience practically, and then narrate it to others……Madhuban is a stage before the world. The actor on a stage will have so much attention on every act. He will raise his hands with attention because he knows that everyone will look at me…..Make a new plan to become natural and easy yogis….What is the basis for an easy yogi and how can one become a natural yogi? Prepare this plan and experience it. Then narrate it to others then they will praise you. Develop new techniques of making efforts in which you work hard lesser and gain more success. Prepare such a plan which will prompt others to thank the residents of Madhuban. (AV. 17..78, pg.24)

• Everybody’s looking at the main gems of Madhuban now. So show something in that vision so that their eyes look at your changed vision only. Now that old vision and old attitude should not continue. Only then the final bugles would sound. This gathering is not common. This gathering is wonderful…. So everyone should feel that these people have come out practically, like BaapDada. (AV. 7.10.76, pg.1)


• You are extra lucky than all others. Why? It is said that the person, whose house is more frequented by guests is very lucky, isn’t it? So you are extra lucky. Because maximum number of guests come here. But the hospitality should be such that he should become a guest of his OWN house (i.e. he should become a member of your family). Your hospitality should make them a guest permanently. BaapDada (ShivBaba & Brahma Baba) used to set such an example in the corporeal form. Make someone a guest for the whole life with hospitality. This is called “Son shows Father”. (AV. 16.7.69, pg.88)

(FIRST ShivBaba, the Father, SHOWED the SON, Brahma Baba, by giving everyone His own introduction and the introduction of Brahma Baba. THEN the SON, Brahma Baba SHOWED the Incorporeal Father, by following His Shrimat ACCURATELY and becoming a COMPLETE ANGEL - and therefore CONSTANTLY COMBINED with the Father, since 1969. And NOW, the Children - Om Radhe or Mama, being the very FIRST Child - after Brahma Baba, who became the instrumental 'alokik' Mother-Father - must REVEAL or SHOW both the Incorporeal Father, ShivBaba or God, as well as the 'alokik' Father, Brahma Baba, to the WHOLE WORLD!)
= Comment by SAT =

• It is praised for such a Madhuban that ill intentioned persons cannot step into it. Madhuban is a line of luck. Nobody can step into it. BaapDada explains every one of you that this is a line of love. Baapdada resides within the circle of this love. Nobody can come inside it. Someone may cut his head and present it, but getting love (of God) in corporeal form is not guaranteed. For that when you see people crying in future then you will know its value. They will fall at your feet crying ... The comforts and pleasures of all the relationships that are filled in you souls cannot be there in anyone. So always keep in mind your luck in the drama. (AV. 6.12.69, pg.153-154)

• Residents of Madhuban have heard many things. Is there anything left to be heard? ... Have you used all the arrows that you have collected? Residents of Madhuban have a chance to do three kinds of service. What kind of a chance of service do they have? Specially, residents of Madhuban have a tool of easy service, i.e. the basis of this land of boons or the land of action (performed by God). If you narrate the exaltation of the acts of this land, then just as people do not show as much interest in listening to Gita (Teachings of Krishna) as much as they show for Bhagwat (the life story of Krishna), similarly the residents of Madhuban have a tool to narrate the practical acts(of God).... So the residents of Madhuban can do service through the narration of Bhagwat (acts of God) that “It happens like this here”. (AV. 14.2.78, pg.60)

• You residents of Madhuban are master teachers. Whether you teach or not, your every act teaches every soul. Even if you act ordinarily, they learn; and even if your acts are great, they learn. You do not teach, but becoming residents of Madhuban means becoming master teachers… you people need not specially sit on the throne and teach… each of the residents of Madhuban should become spheres of light and might. So everyone will come attracted to the light and might. Now the work of Father is going on.
(AV 28.11.81,pg 184-85)

• Residents of Madhuban should take a special vow (vrat) when compared to other souls. Which vow? One should take the only vow that we shall have one opinion, one great attitude, one spiritual attitude and one uniform stage, co-operate with each other, become well wishers and have good feelings and good wishes, and in spite of different resolves, we shall strengthen the fortress of the highest grade (satopradhan) resolves, like those of one Father and the original resolves of self. The residents of Madhuban should have the courage to take vow not only in respect of themselves but also in respect of the gathering (sangathan)... just as souls of others zones have been asked to accomplish their respective special service, the residents of Madhuban should also provide proof in this aspect. You will get prize in January on the basis of this… now the old children should give sustenance to the new children who are arriving, i.e., they should be busy day and night in this work. The subtle (Avyakt) role is especially for the new ones .... The work of older ones is to show the proof of encouraging the new ones to move ahead of them and show all the teachings in corporeal form. (A.V. 18.7.74,118,119,120)

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Re: Murli points for churning and inculcation

Post by Abhimanyu » 22 Sep 2015

This is just to inform everyone viewing the posts in this topic that posts made by me here have been duly corrected & clarified by the Admin, where deemed necessary.

Thus the posts made by me here are not exactly 100% same posts that have been posted by me.

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Re: Murli points for churning and inculcation

Post by Abhimanyu » 01 Dec 2015

RESPONSIBILITY OF Father

Father (ShivBaba) will always give right direction. Even if he (Brahma Baba, DLR) gives wrong direction then Father (ShivBaba - Supreme Soul Shiva) is responsible. Father is Dharmaraj (Lord of religion) also, isn’t it? (13.7.78, pg.2)

Children get confused whether this is Shrimat (directions of God) or whether this is the advice of Brahma (DLR). Even then, this(DLR) is the Chariot of (Shiv)Baba. Even if any mistake is committed by him
(DLR), and you keep following Shrimat, then He (ShivBaba) will correct it Himself. Shrimat is received through him (DLR) ONLY. Always consider that we receive Shrimat. Then whatever happens,
I
(ShivBaba) am responsible. (Shiv)Baba says that if something (untoward) takes place through him
(DLR), I (ShivBaba) am responsible. This secret is fixed in the drama. I (ShivBaba) can correct him
(DLR) also. He is Father (ShivBaba is Father of ALL bodiless souls, and Brahma Baba, DLR, is the father of all embodied souls). So Bap (Father - ShivBaba - Supreme Soul Shiva) and Dada (elder brother, Brahma Baba DLR) are TOGETHER. So children get confused whether ShivBaba (Supreme Soul Shiva) speaks or Brahma (DLR) speaks. If you think that ShivBaba (Supreme Soul Shiv - ONLY through Brahma Baba, DLR) gives the advice, then you will NEVER waver (and NEVER get trapped by bodily gurus who MASQUERADE as ShivBaba in the 'shooting' period of Ravan Rajya in the latter part of the Confluence Age, after 1969). (19.1.71, pg.2)

Father explains us to leave all other matters, isn’t it? (Children sometimes think) “Baba loves him and doesn’t love that person”. God knows his ways as to how to grant true salvation to someone. Why do you interfere in these matters? Are you not satisfied with the abuses hurled at Me in the path of worship to tell that (Father - Supreme Soul Shiva) loves this person and does not love that person. (1.6.69)

One should not utter bad words. Father's (Supreme Soul Shiva) case is different. He has to give all kinds of teachings. (3.2.75, pg.3)

Children should always think that we receive Shrimat. If you follow Shrimat then Baba is responsible. Father says that I give advice through him (ONLY through Brahma Baba, DLR). Suppose that something bad takes place, I (ShivBaba) am responsible. I (ShivBaba) shall correct it. (6.2.75, pg.2)

One should follow Shrimat. Then He (i.e., the Father - Supreme Soul Shiva) will be responsible. Brahma’s advice is also famous. Even if he (DLR) gives opposite advice then He (ShivBaba) is responsible.
(11.4.73, pg.3)

When Father is always with you then you are tension-free emperor. You need not think whether it will be alright or not. When Father is with you then everything is all right. ... Even thinking, is Father’s work. Our work is to be immersed in His company. That is why even the weak thoughts are over.
(AV. 21.1.85, pg.140)

When you have entrusted the boat of your life to the true Father (Supreme Soul Shiva, through Brahma Baba, DLR) then the boat of truth may shake but it will not sink. Do not withdraw the responsibility after entrusting it to the Father (Supreme Soul Shiva, through Brahma Baba, DLR). (Some think that) Shall I be able to walk (in the path of knowledge)? Where did this “mine’ come from? Removing the consciousness of “mine” means becoming Father’s child. You commit only this mistake and get entangled or disturbed in this mistake. .... I do this or I cannot do this. One should be free from the body consciousness of “mine”. ... When I have become Baba’s child then who is responsible? Your responsibility is just one. We shall walk as per Baba’s directions and we shall do whatever Baba says. We shall sit in whichever seat of stage Baba likes us to sit in. Do not mix the advice of the consciousness of “Mine” of mind with the Shrimat. ..... Do not get afraid by looking at others. What will happen? Will this also happen? Do not be afraid. But go into the deepness. (AV.3.5.77)

ALWAYS think that ShivBaba is giving direction through him (Brahma Baba, DLR, in 'Sakar' until 1969, and in 'akar' TO-DATE) ... If someone does not understand the Godly direction (GIVEN BY Supreme Soul Shiva, THROUGH THE LOTUS MOUTH OF BRAHMA BABA; in 'Sakar' until 1969, and in 'akar' TO-DATE) and understands the direction of human beings (of bodily gurus, who MASQUERADE as 'ShivBaba', in the 'shooting' period of Ravan Rajya in the latter part of the Confluence Age, after 1969) then they will get confused (and allow themselves to be PROPERLY TRAPPED in the BOG of Ravan or Maya). Father (Supreme Soul Shiva) says if you follow My direction then I am responsible. Whatever actions take place through him (Brahma Baba, DLR), I am responsible for those activities. I shall correct it. You just follow My direction (and DO NOT allow yourself to be TRAPPED by the MIS-INTERPRETATIONS and MIS-REPRESENTATIONS of bodily gurus, who MASQUERADE as ShivBaba in the 'shooting' period of the Confluence Age, after 1969.) (12.1.75, pg.1)

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Re: Murli points for churning and inculcation

Post by Abhimanyu » 06 Dec 2015

NONE OTHER THAN ONE Father CAN TEACH Yoga

No bodily human being can ever teach the knowledge of RajYoga or the journey of remembrance
(Yaad ki yatra).
(19.4.74, pg.1)

Until the Father comes, how can the method of RajYoga be known? (3.2.74)

When the time comes, the Father Himself comes and gives the knowledge. Human beings cannot give. Many such ascetics go out (to foreign countries). They say that we have come to teach the RajYoga of India. But they do not teach RajYoga, but just gossip. Truth is here. (15.5.73, pg.2,3)

No human being can teach RajYoga to any other human being. (16.5.73, pg.2,3)

Father sits and teaches RajYoga also. No bodily human being can teach this. (28.6.74, pg.3)

You know that incorporeal Supreme Father Supreme Soul (ShivBaba or God Himself) TEACHES us Yoga through THIS middleman Brahma (Prajapita Brahma, DLR, soul of the FIRST PRINCE of the Golden Age) or gets us souls engaged (with the Supreme Soul Shiva). He TEACHES us easy RajYoga. This is Godly Yoga. Remaining people who teach Yoga are human beings (bodily gurus, MASQUERADING as ShivBaba in the 'shooting' period of Ravan Rajya in the Yagya after 1969). Whatever Yoga the human beings (under the ACTIVE influence of Ravan or Maya) teach, is WRONG (based on the CORRUPTED, ADULTERATED, REVERTED & INVERTED MIS-INTERPRETATIONS & MISAPPROPRIATIONS of the Pure Knowledge revealed by Supreme Soul Shiva in the SMs and AVs through the lotus mouth of Prajapita Brahma, DLR ALONE, and NONE OTHER). They will take you towards downfall. Human beings show the way of downfall to fellow human beings on DEMONIACAL advice. That's why it's called DEMONIACAL Yoga. (22.4.72, pg.1)

• Whosoever, (bodily gurus, MASQUERADING as ShivBaba in the 'shooting' period of Ravan Rajya in the Yagya after 1969) other than the Father, teaches Yoga, meet with downfall themselves, and cause the downfall of their followers too. The world became a heaven with the Yoga taught by the God, (through the lotus mouth of Prajapita Brahma, DLR ALONE, and NONE OTHER) but became a hell with the Yoga taught by the human beings (bodily gurus, MASQUERADING as ShivBaba in the 'shooting' period of Ravan Rajya in the Yagya after 1969). None other can teach. If anyone acts in an opposite way, his intellect gets locked (the intellects of ALL the bodily gurus, along with their respective followers get LOCKED, and they are simply unable to understand or comprehend that they are being TRICKED by Ravan or Maya, using these instrumental souls to COMPLETELY DECEIVE them). (22.4.72, pg.3)

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Re: Murli points for churning and inculcation

Post by Abhimanyu » 09 Dec 2015

Shiva AND Shankar IS THE SAME PERSON (IN ONE SAME BODY), BUT THE SOULS ARE DIFFERENT ?????

= SAT have now completed the process of providing required clarifications for each of the points highlighted below. 'Abhimanyu' and 'mbbhat' may like to provide their further comments below each point, which they may do so in appropriate colours - say 'blue' by 'mbbhat' and 'brown' by 'Abhimanyu' =

• Nothing is permanent in this world. Only one ShivBaba (Supreme Soul Shiva or God) is permanent (His Consciousness or Awareness NEVER CHANGES). Remaining everyone (each and every other embodied soul - INCLUDING Brahma, Vishnu & Shankar) has to experience downfall (their consciousness or awareness CHANGES). (2.1.75, 2.1.68, pg.3)

• Ravan is wicked (inspires, incites, instigates and facilitates the 'shooting' of Ravan Rajya in Confluence Age, more ACTIVELY after 1969, within the Yagya, through principal instrumental souls, and CHIEF instrumental soul, MASQUERADING as 'ShivBaba', and succeeds in DECEIVING even the VERY 'ELECT'). ShivBaba (Supreme Soul Shiva or God) is (GENTLE, like) a 'gentleman' (facilitates the 'shooting' of RamRajya in Confluence Age, more ACTIVELY prior 1969, within the Yagya, through His ONE & ONLY APPOINTED, FIXED, PERMANENT Chariot - Brahma Baba, soul of DLR, the FIRST prince of the Golden Age - in 'Sakar' until 1969, and in 'akar' to date). (5.1.68, pg.1)

• False charges have been leveled against Shiva (by mixing Shiva with Shankar) that he used to eat Dhatura (a poisonous fruit - symbolically refers to the physical act of sexual copulation with 'kanyas' and 'matas' by the CHIEF instrument or 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan or Maya in latter part of Confluence Age).
People malign Him (Supreme Soul Shiva or God) a lot. Such foolish human beings (the CHIEF 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan or Maya, masquerading as 'ShivBaba', and his BLIND followers, instrumental to carry out the 'shooting' of Ravan Rajya in Confluence Age, after 1969, in the Yagya) will be destroyed and those who become good persons (who RE-Cognize Supreme Soul Shiva, the way He ACTUALLY is, and remain in ACCURATE & UNADULTERATED Remembrance of Him, by FIRST considering themselves as souls and then Remembering NONE but ONE Beloved Supreme Father Supreme Soul) will get the Kingdom (Sovereignty in the Golden Age). (4.11.78, pg.3)

• Now it is hell. They keep biting (accusing, counter-accusing and quarreling with) each other (in the 'shooting' period of Ravan Rajya in Confluence Age). It is indicated in the scriptures that crabs(lizards) and scorpions were born (when 'Shankar' committed a 'mistake' - initiated and propagated the INVERTED, CORRUPTED & ADULTERATED reversed advanced knowledge, using the very same points from the original SMs and AVs, by deliberately MISINTERPRETING & MISAPPROPRIATING them, under the active influence of Ravan or Maya, to enable the determination of number-wise status of souls within the Cycle, as per Drama Plan ) isn’t it? Now (in the 'shooting' period of RamRajya in Confluence Age) everyone is the child of Shiva. But now(then) crabs(lizards) and scorpions are born from his semen (of the INVERTED, CORRUPTED & ADULTERATED reversed advanced knowledge propagated by Ravan or Maya, MASQUERADING as 'Shankar' and 'ShivBaba', by also influencing the CHIEF 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan or Maya to physically copulate with the 'kanyas' and 'matas', TRICKING them into delusively believing that they would be purified by such physical sexual copulatory act and that they would then become like 'Parvati' to be able to purify other souls also, etc., etc., etc.) (28.2.72, pg.2)

• I (Supreme Soul Shiva) have been given many names. Har-har-mahadev (the greatest of the trinity, i.e. Shankar ?????), the liberator from sorrows. That is also My (Supreme Soul Shiva or God) title, NOT of Shankar (Har-har-mahadev or dev-dev-mahadev is ACTUALLY the title assigned to Supreme Father Supreme Soul, INCORPOREAL Shiva, ShivBaba or God to symbolically represent His Act of the destruction of EVIL within the human psyche; whereas 'Shankar' is ONLY a SYMBOLIC REPRESENTATION of this MOST BENEVOLENT ACT of GOD, devised within Drama to exonerate God from the seemingly destructive notion implied by the most benevolent Act of God). (4.11.78, pg.2)

• Actually ShivBaba is the oldest of all (Incorporeal Supreme Soul Shiva is the OLDEST, as compared to ALL embodied souls, since ALL embodied souls 'originate' from Him, which means they depend on Him for the Re-juvenation of their PURE Awareness or Consciousness), but nobody knows (these DEEP and SUBTLE aspects). Entire praise is attributed to ShivBaba (Supreme Soul Shiva - WITHIN one Solar System of this Universe). That thing cannot be obtained. So what happens to be the oldest thing? Number ONE ShivBaba
(Incorporeal Supreme Soul Shiva, who is the REAL 'Alif' or Alpha). (26.5.72, pg.3)

• I (Supreme Soul Shiva) give you the kingdom of Heaven. Even there I do not live in palaces. Here also I do not stay in palaces. It is sung, ‘Bum-bum Mahadev' (Shankar ?????)! (‘Bum-bum Mahadev' is ACTUALLY the title of Supreme Soul Shiva, and NOT 'Shankar') Fill up my 'jholi' (it is a piece of cloth used for receiving alms). But nobody knows when and how He fills up the 'jholi'? 'Jholi' was filled up SURELY when He (Supreme Soul Shiva) was in 'LIVING' form (through His 'mukrar-rath' or FIXED, APPOINTED, PERMANENT Chariot - Brahma Baba, DLR - in 'Sakar' until 1969, and in 'akar' to date). (12.5.72, pg.2)

• You will be transformed into flower-like deities and taken across (this hell). Then in Heaven you will not experience any sorrow. That is why He (Supreme Soul Shiva) is called the LIBERATOR from sorrows, the bestower of prosperity, and 'Har-Har Mahadev' (the greatest among the trinity, i.e. Shankar ?????) (‘Har-Har Mahadev' is ACTUALLY the title of Supreme Soul Shiva, and NOT 'Shankar'). (ONLY) Shiva (Supreme Father Supreme Soul or God Himself ALONE) can ONLY be called 'Mahadev' (and NOT 'Shankar'). He (Supreme Soul Shiva) is the Father of even Brahma, Vishnu and 'Shankar'. ('Mahadev' means the Creator of EVEN the symbolic subtle 'devtas' or deities of Brahma, Vishnu and 'Shankar') (6.11.73, pg.5)

• The number ONE most abused person(ality) is ShivBaba (Supreme Soul Shiva ALONE). The second most abused person(ality) is Brahma (Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba, DLR, the FIRST prince of the Golden Age when he is in his last 84th birth as DLR, AFTER receiving the Knowledge from Shiva). (24.12.73, pg.2)

• Actually there should be temples of ShivBaba (Supreme Soul Shiva) ONLY (and NOT of 'Shankar', which is only the SYMBOLIC representation of the MOST BENEVOLENT ACT of Shiva or God - that of DESTRUCTION of EVIL - represented by the SYMBOLIC form of 'Shankar'). He (Supreme Soul Shiva - as 'Shankar') is instrumental in purifying the sinful ('Shankar' is like the 'costume or shirt' of Shiva, hence those who are conscious of either GROSS or SUBTLE bodies, give credence, worship or remember the 'costume or shirt' rather than the REAL being - Shiva). (1.8.73, pg.1)

• I (Supreme Soul Shiva) am such a nice guest of you children for a few days (for a short period in Confluence Age, through His 'mukrar-rath' or FIXED, APPOINTED, PERMANENT Chariot of Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLR, in 'Sakar' until 1969 and in 'akar' to date). Supreme Father Supreme Soul (Shiva, ShivBaba or God-Father), the Master of the World, is your guest. (6.11.70, pg.3, 8.11.74, pg.3)

• THIS Brahma (Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba, Adi Dev, soul of DLR) is also an effort-maker ('purusharti'). ShivBaba is an effort-maker ????? [CORRECT original Version : ShivBaba is the Charioteer (purushrati) - He CANNOT be an effort-maker] (ShivBaba or Supreme Soul Shiva or Shiva or God is one who ENABLES soul of Prajapita Brahma and all other embodied souls to make effort - He does NOT need to make any effort Himself, since He is ALWAYS soul-conscious). ShivBaba (Supreme Soul Shiva) is the ENABLER of efforts. (27.8.73, pg.2)

BK view point:- Put here in post No. 86- -
http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... 110#p11853

THIS IS ONE OF THE GREATEST CLASSICAL EXAMPLES OF THE CLEVER PLOY EMPLOYED by Ravan or Maya IN SEVERELY DISTORTING, CORRUPTING, ADULTERATING & REVERSING THE INTERPRETATIONS OF THE PURE KNOWLEDGE GIVEN TO HUMANITY BY ShivBaba, Shiva or GOD in the Confluence Age !!!

• Everyone (sensible Children) knows the life story of the Supreme Soul (Supreme Father Supreme Soul, ShivBaba, Shiva or God). That too, not just of one birth. Do you know that ShivBaba’s (Supreme Soul Shiva) biography is of how many births? (His MAIN function is when embodied souls take Divine birth from Him in Confluence Age, and He also performs functions during the periods of C A and I A during 63 births of all embodied souls - this version has been SEVERELY CORRUPTED by Ravan or Maya, through the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, to imply that same pertains to him, when he MASQUERADES as 'ShivBaba' during the 'shooting' of Ravan Rajya in Confluence Age) (11.6.72, pg.1)

• Greatest of ALL are ShivBaba (Supreme Soul Shiva or God) and Brahma (Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba, Adi Dev, soul of DLR), BOTH are HIGHEST (ONE is the Incorporeal father of ALL bodiless souls, and the other is the 'akari' father of ALL souls when they are embodied). (13.6.75)

• God cannot be compared as highest or lowest (in relation to any other embodied souls, since He is ALWAYS the HIGHEST of ALL). Human beings are compared that way (among, and with all other embodied souls ONLY, and NOT with God - AGAIN, this version has been SEVERELY CORRUPTED by Ravan or Maya, through the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, to imply that same pertains to him, when he MASQUERADES as 'ShivBaba' during the 'shooting' of Ravan Rajya in Confluence Age). (5.2.75, pg.2)

• ShivBaba (Supreme Soul Shiva) is only called Rudra (NOT 'Shankar') (a title of Shankar ????? in mythological stories attributed to his ferocious form). The flame of destruction was ignited from the Rudra Yagya (literally meaning sacrificial fire, but here it refers to the spiritual family set up by God) of Knowledge. So Rudra is God, isn’t it? ('Shankar' is NOT God) (26.1.75, pg.2)

ANOTHER CLASSICAL EXAMPLE HOW SOULS WITH INVERTED INTELLECTS CORRUPT Shiva or ShivBaba or God with 'Shankar' - which is ONLY the symbolic representation of ONLY ONE of the (most benevolent) FUNCTIONS of God in Confluence Age, that of DESTRUCTION of EVIL - AND SEVERELY DECEIVE BOTH THEMSELVES AND OTHER UNWARY ASPIRANTS OF SPIRITUALITY!!!

• Only this (Supreme Father Supreme Soul ShivBaba or God) soul’s name is Shiva. All the remaining (embodied) souls have their respective bodies. Their names are based on their bodies. The name of the Supreme Soul (Shiva or ShivBaba) is NOT based on a body ... only His soul’s name is Shiva. It never changes. When the bodies change the names also change (within the Cycle). (24.1.75, pg.2)

• Father says I myself have come to take you back (in Confluence Age, through His 'mukrar-rath' or FIXED, APPOINTED, PERMANENT Chariot of Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLR, in 'Sakar' until 1969 and in 'akar' to date). I am called 'kaalon ka kaal', 'mahakaal' (Death of Deaths, Great Death). Death is staring at you. So you follow my advice and get a high post. There are different posts in the world of true salvation. Will the religious fathers stay permanently even in salvation (i.e. in the Soul World)? (1.3.77, pg.2)

• Only ONE ShivBaba (Supreme Father Supreme Soul Shiva or God) is like a diamond whose (Divine) birthday is celebrated. It must be asked that, “What did ShivBaba do?” He transforms the sinful into pure ones. (19.2.84, pg.3)

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Re: Murli points for churning and inculcation

Post by Abhimanyu » 22 Dec 2015

WHOSE Shrimat ?

= SAT will now embark on the process of providing required clarifications for each of the points highlighted below, which would take some time. 'Abhimanyu' and 'mbbhat' may like to provide their further comments below each point, which they may do so in appropriate colours - say 'blue' by 'mbbhat' and 'brown' by 'Abhimanyu', AFTER SAT complete the process, which would be notified here in due course =

• Only ONE God's (Supreme Father Supreme Soul Shiva or ShivBaba's) directions can be called as Shrimat (given to humanity through His FIXED, APPOINTED, PERMANENT Chariot or 'mukrar-rath' - Adi Dev, Adam, Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of FIRST prince of the Golden Age, DLR - in 'Sakar' until 1969, and in 'akar' to date). [Mu 8-6-73 Pg-1]

• Sometimes the word Shrimat is used commonly. Actually the Godly versions uttered DIRECTLY by Baap-Dada (Baap - Supreme Father Supreme Soul, God-Father Shiva or ShivBaba - the CHARIOTEER;
Dada - Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba, Adi Dev, Adam, the FIRST prince of the Golden Age when in his FINAL 84th corporeal body, DLR - the FIXED, APPOINTED, PERMANENT Chariot or 'mukrar-rath' of God-Father Shiva or ShivBaba - the -Chariot) for the children is the Shrimat (delivered to entire humanity by God through His FIXED, APPOINTED, PERMANENT Chariot or 'mukrar-rath' - Brahma Baba, DLR - in 'Sakar' until 1969 and in 'akar' to date), which is received DAILY (CURRENTLY being disseminated through the HQ of the Godly University, BKWSU or PBKIVV, and all it's branches world-wide; also through the PEACE OF MIND tv channel, as well as the Internet - accessible to any interested spiritual aspirant) through Baap-Dada's DIRECT Murlis (ORIGINALLY delivered by God in the SMs and AVs DIRECTLY through His 'mukrar-rath', Brahma Baba, soul of DLR - in 'Sakar' until 1969 and in 'akar' to date) even now, and Baap-Dada's directions are also received from Madhuban (HQ of the Godly University, established by God through His 'mukrar-rath' Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba, soul of DLR) from time to time. As regards the rest, directions of souls for other souls can only be termed as a good advice and not as Shrimat. Hence, terming of advice received from junior or senior brothers and sisters as Shrimat is like demeaning the importance of Shrimat (and terming the MISINTERPRETATIONS and MISAPPROPRIATIONS of the SMs and AVs by bodily gurus - in particular, by the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan or Maya, MASQUERADING as 'ShivBaba', 'Shankar', etc., etc., etc., carrying out the 'shooting' of Ravan Rajya within the Yagya in the latter part of Confluence Age after 1969 - as Shrimat, is tantamount to OPPOSING, INSULTING and DEFAMING God)!

• Baap-Dada, Mother-Father need not follow children's directions. NO. Children have to follow the Shrimat. Children should not give directions to Father. Some children feel that Mother-Father or Baap-Dada should follow their directions. But, this cannot happen. [Mu 9-4-73 Pg-2]

• Father has come for your benefit. But, children don't follow the Shrimat. Shrimat says "go there" but they do not go. They say this place is hot or this place is cold. They (the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan or Maya - MASQUERADING as 'ShivBaba', 'Shankar', etc., etc., etc., carrying out the 'shooting' of Ravan Rajya within the Yagya in the latter part of Confluence Age after 1969 - and his gullible followers) have not recognized the (TRUE, REAL or ABSOLUTE) Father AT ALL! Who is speaking through him (Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba, Adi Dev, Adam, the FIRST prince of the Golden Age when in his FINAL 84th corporeal body, DLR - the FIXED, APPOINTED, PERMANENT Chariot or 'mukrar-rath' of God-Father Shiva or ShivBaba)? They (the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan or Maya and his gullible followers) don't understand even this. They (the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan or Maya and his gullible followers) just have the ordinary bodily medium (Brahma Baba, DLR, who played the role in 'Sakar' prior 1969) in their intellect (but since they do not consider the corporeal body of Brahma Baba, DLR to be ordinary, and do not consider him to be the 'mukrar-rath' of ShivBaba - since they have no means of relating to him in 'akar' when he becomes a COMPLETE ANGEL after 1969, owing to their own 'sakari' consciousness - they have no option but to consider the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan or Maya to be the 'sakari' ordinary bodily medium of 'ShivBaba' after 1969, and keep him in their intellect), and they don't remember (TRULY know, understand and accept) the two Fathers ('nirakari' Supreme Soul Shiva & 'akari' soul of Brahma Baba or DLR) in their intellect (as Fathers - one 'nirakari' and the other 'sakari-cum-akari'; since they replace the REAL 'sakari-cum-akari' father, the 'mukrar-rath' of REAL Ram or REAL ShivBaba, who is instrumental to carry out the 'shooting' of RamRajya in Confluence Age, with the FALSE 'sakari' father, the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, FALSE Ram or FALSE 'ShivBaba', who is instrumental to carry out the 'shooting' of Ravan Rajya in Confluence Age, BLINDLY considering him to be in a 'nirakari' stage during the extensive 'shooting' period of Ravan Rajya in the latter part of Confluence Age). People fear the Kings (the sovereigns in C A and I A, and the corresponding bodily gurus carrying out the 'shooting' of those sovereigns in Confluence Age, the CHIEF being the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan or Maya) so much. They shiver even to go in front of them (to confront them with the REAL TRUTH about God & Ravan, being highlighted herein). [Mu 2-2-68 Pg-1]

• You have to follow Him (Supreme Father Supreme Soul, Shiva, ShivBaba or God - THROUGH His FIXED, APPOINTED, PERMANENT Chariot, Brahma Baba, soul of DLR) step by step (FIRST STEP - the actions advocated/performed by God THROUGH Brahma Baba when he was in 'Sakar' until 1969, when concerned Children were/are also still in 'sakari' consciousness; SECOND STEP - the actions being advocated/performed by God THROUGH Brahma Baba when he is PRESENTLY in 'akar' after 1969 to date, when the concerned Children have SINCE also developed their own individual 'akari' consciousness - NUMBER-WISE, according to their individual efforts and corresponding roles within drama). You are becoming the bride of the unlimited Father (Supreme Father Supreme Soul, Shiva, ShivBaba or God - THROUGH His FIXED, APPOINTED, PERMANENT Chariot, Brahma Baba, soul of DLR), isn’t it? Then you have to do whatever He (Supreme Father Supreme Soul, Shiva, ShivBaba or God - THROUGH His FIXED, APPOINTED, PERMANENT Chariot, Brahma Baba, soul of DLR) says. Baba has said that even if you write a letter, do it under Me (when you are in 'sakari' consciousness with the CLEAR awareness of the actions ALREADY performed through Brahma Baba when he was in a corporeal body, and when you NOW DEVELOP your 'akari' consciousness with the CLEAR awareness of the functions being CURRENTLY performed through Brahma Baba, the VERY SAME SOUL of DLR, in Avyakt, when he is instrumental to play an UNLIMITED ROLE in his current SUBTLE body). Brahmakumaris (BKWSU or PBKIVV, the Godly University, and NOT AIVV, the DoGly university) C/o ShivBaba (REAL or ABSOLUTE ShivBaba, and NOT FALSE or RELATIVE/APPARENT 'ShivBaba'). [Mu 20-2-73, Pg-3]

• There is no use in forming committees as per one's own opinion. They indulge in wasteful chit chatting; “such and such person does like that”; whole day they keep on doing this. The intellectual link with the Father, through which we will become pure, is broken due to this. [Mu 2-1-71 Pg-2]

• The manners of some children are very bad. They don't obey ShivBaba. Father gives advice through him. So one should listen to Him, isn’t it? But, if they don't listen to Him also, then they can be called as orphans. They are also called ill-fated. Father says you have become so ill-fated. Father makes you a millionaire. When Father is making you so great, then you should fulfill his wishes, isn’t it?
[Mu 2-4-69 Pg-4]

• Do not listen to any one except Me ... Without giving an ear to human beings’ directions, just follow ONE Godly direction. Whatever is God's direction is right and the peoples’ directions are wrong. [Mu 25-3-74 ]

• Always follow the Shrimat. One’s own opinion will lead to nowhere. The true income lies in following the direction of the TRUE Father. [Mu.25.1.78, pg.2]

• We should never oppose the Father. One should never say "No" to Father. [Mu 6-9-69 Pg-1]

• Children say Baba you may direct us as you wish. Father will give directions also through THIS medium, isn’t it? But, children do not even follow directions given through THIS medium. They again follow the same old rotten directions of fellow beings. They even observe that it is ShivBaba who is giving directions through THIS Chariot. Even then, they act according to their own opinion. They follow an opinion, which, is worth a penny. Souls have become worth a penny by following Ravan's directions (demoniac directions).
[Mu 10-12-70 Pg-2]

• By following the devilish directions, human beings will bring about their own downfall. Only one Father gives the Shrimat. Rest all is a devil community giving devilish directions. Ravan gives devilish directions.
[Mu 19-5-73 ]

• ShivBaba comes and makes you his own. He says souls have become mine by taking a lot of risks ... No, these are all children. ShivBaba is very famous. Whatever directions He gives, whatever He does is right. Whatever He (i.e., God Shiva) makes him (corporeal Brahma) do, is also right. [Mu 26-5-78 Pg-1]

• Welfare lies in following the directions of ONE. You have found God, whom you had been remembering since half a Kalpa. Therefore, you should not leave Him. Why do you get confused in this? Baba says, as per the drama, I have come to present you the fortune of Kingdom. You will have to follow my directions. Remember Me. [13-4-77 Pg-3]

• The directions of the Supreme Father are the greatest and those of the remaining people are devilish directions. Father is the ONLY truth. [Mu 3-5-70 Pg-1]

• Purasharthis (effort-makers) should follow Brahma, but listen to Me (i.e., God Shiva, and NOT Brahma). [Mu13-1-70]

• Only Shrimat will make you great. You should not even see the faces of those people who give immoral directions. [Mu 5-4-74]

• You should follow neither the teachings nor the directions of bodily relatives. You must follow the directions of ONE. [Mu 12-3-69 Pg-1, Mu 16-2-68 Pg-1]

• Brahma's directions are also famous, ShivBaba's Shrimat is also well known. Hence his (Brahma's) directions should also be famous along with ShivBaba's directions. You must follow BOTH ShivBaba and Brahma. [Mu 24-3-78 Pg-1]

• Now I am in front of you. I become trustee and make you too. Whatever you do, (first) ask me, and then do it. I am living (present), is not it? Baba will advise in every matter. [Mu 16-3-75 Pg-3]

• You must follow the Shrimat of ONE. You will die (from knowledge) as soon as you follow your own views. If you follow the Shrimat, you will become the greatest of the great, i.e., deities.
[Mu 30-8-78 Pg-3]

• You have to be so faithful and obedient that you should not put forward a step or breathe for even a second against the Godly direction (Shrimat). [Mu 22-6-71 Pg-2]

• If Baba cautions children, they will leave him. Otherwise, there is a saying "whether you beat me or disown me, I will not leave you". Here children get angry even if Baba speaks the truth. Such children are also there. Some children thank Baba in their minds. Some children feel angry. [Mu 21-3-75 Pg-3]

• You are sitting before the unlimited Father. One must follow Shrimat. Only such children will follow Shrimat in every step, report to Baba regularly. Baba should get the complete news of children's life and acts. Only then will Baba know and give directions from time to time. One must follow Shrimat in every step. [Mu 3-3-77 Pg-1]

• Those who do any work without being told (to do so) are deities, those who act after being told are human beings, and those who do not do a work even after being told are called donkeys (animals).
[Mu 17-4-73 Pg-2]

• If you are Mukhvanshavali (mouth-born progeny), then you must accept whatever (Shiv)Baba says. [Mu 8-10-73 Pg-3]

• Maya (vices) doesn't give oral directions. She acts as such. Baba explains orally. [Mu 9-10-73 Pg-2]

• One must follow Shrimat without failing. One must not propagate one's own views. One must write letters to friends and relatives, as per Shrimat. If you don't write as per Shrimat, it will do them only harm. There are many, who write letters secretly. Father is Teacher. So you should inform Him. Baba, we write letters like this. Baba will teach you to write such letters, by reading which, one will feel excited. None of you children knows how to write letters. You must maintain relationships, otherwise how will charity begin at home. [Mu 25-4-77 Pg-1,2]

• One is helpless without Shrimat. Without guide a lonely person cannot reach the destination. If you don't know the way, how will you proceed? A guide’s assistance (or company) is compulsorily required.
[Mu 8-8-78 Pg-2]

= NOTE: clarifications within black brackets (green colour font), and comments in pink colour font, ARE IN THE PROCESS of being added by SAT =

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Re: Murli points for churning and inculcation

Post by Abhimanyu » 24 Dec 2015

Baba will be responsible for Shrimat

• If you act according to Shrimat, Father (Supreme Soul Shiva, ShivBaba or God) will be responsible. You will never be at (a REAL) loss, if you follow the Shrimat. He is both Father and Dharamraj, (literally meaning a Hindu deity who keeps a record of everybody’s actions and sends the souls to heaven or hell accordingly, after the death of the body), He observes all the evil acts that are being performed (including the EVIL ACTS of OPPOSING & DEFAMING God, by SEVERELY CORRUPTING, ADULTERATING, ALTERING, MODIFYING & REVERSING the true intent of God in the original SMs and AVs by Ravan or Maya through the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, instrumental to carry out the 'shooting' of Ravan Rajya in Confluence Age - and then gives all the souls who are the blind followers, the fruits of such EVIL ACTS, through His form as Dharamraj). [Mu 2-5-78 Pg-2]

• Do whatever Baba (Supreme Father Supreme Soul, ShivBaba, Shiva or God) says, leave the rest to Baba. Your welfare lies in proceeding as per Baba's directions. If Baba says: “Do like this, live like this", say 'yes', don't say 'why'. Say, "I am ready". Did you understand? If you say: "Yes I am ready", or "Yes, Master" you will always be flying (i.e., remain double light). [Av. 12.10.71 Pg-50]
Ravan or Maya influences the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, MASQUERADING as 'ShivBaba', 'Shankar', etc., to impress upon all the blind followers that the above point applies to himself, (during the extensive 'shooting' period of Ravan Rajya in Confluence Age) - thus COMPLETELY TRAPPING them in the VICIOUS grip of Ravan or Maya to do his bidding - by delusively making them believe that they are, in fact, following the real dictates of REAL or ABSOLUTE ShivBaba, (whereas they are actually following the false and treacherous dictates of FALSE or APPARENT 'ShivBaba')!

• One should obey whatever elder Baba (Supreme Father Supreme Soul, ShivBaba, Shiva or God) says, is not it ? ... One should follow Him with 'closed eyes' (without the slightest doubt, and without any question in the intellect). But they (the followers of the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, who are the Defamers of God) are not faithful in their intellect (instead of having TRUE faith in TRUE, REAL or ABSOLUTE ShivBaba, they have BLIND faith in UNTRUE, FALSE or APPARENT 'ShivBaba'). Whether there is loss or gain in His sayings, you must accept it. Even if there is a loss in it, it has been told by Baba to always think that it is ShivBaba who speaks (through the LOTUS mouth of Brahma Baba). Don't think that Brahma (Prajapita Brahma, soul of DLR) is speaking. ShivBaba is responsible. THIS (Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba, soul of DLR) is His (Supreme Father Supreme Soul, ShivBaba, Shiva or God's) Chariot. He will make things right. He says: I am sitting HERE (in the corporeal body of Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba, or soul of DLR - in 'Sakar' until 1969; and then in the subtle body of Brahma Baba, in 'akar' to date). Always think that it is ShivBaba only, who speaks. [Mu 4-4-78 Pg-3]
Ravan or Maya influences the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, MASQUERADING as 'ShivBaba', 'Shankar', etc., to impress upon all the blind followers that the above point applies to himself, (during the extensive 'shooting' period of Ravan Rajya in Confluence Age) - thus COMPLETELY TRAPPING them in the VICIOUS grip of Ravan or Maya to do his bidding - by delusively making them believe that the word 'Pitashri', (used previously at the top of SMs), refers to Brahma Baba, when, in actual fact, it refers to ShivBaba; and that only soul of Brahma Baba delivers the AVs through DG, after 1969 to date, COMPLETELY 'IGNORING' or 'SHOOTING DOWN' ShivBaba, thus carrying out the 'shooting' of the mistaken notion in the outer broad drama, that the sermonizer of the Gita is Shri Krishna!

= NOTE: clarifications within black brackets (green colour font), and comments in pink colour font, have been added by SAT =

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Re: Murli points for churning and inculcation

Post by Abhimanyu » 31 Dec 2015

Miscellaneous points to recognize Father

• God does not teach lakhs and crores (of souls). [Mu 7-4-72 Pg-3]

• Father cannot go to large gatherings. This is children's work. (Father will) ask questions and get answers from children. Sanyasis, etc., will not meet Father face to face. They want respect and Baba's role is very wonderful. [Mu 12-10-72 Pg-2]

AIVV - PBK : Well there is large gathering during Avyakt BapDada progaramme at Mt. Abu. So doesn't it prove that only the soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani enters Gulzar Dadi to speak Avyakt Vani & not the soul of Shiva.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Result of taking isolated Murli points. This was said to the period when children were less.

1)SM 13-11-83(2):- Baba apney pass kabhi bhi oonchi vastu nahin rakhte. Kahthay hain itnaa makaan banaayaa hai, vah bhi bachchon ke rahne ke liye banaayaa. Nahin toh bachche kahaan aakar rahenge. EK DIN TOH SAB MAKAAN APNEY HAATH AA JAAYENGE. Bhagavaan ke dar par bhakton ki bheed toh honi hi hai na. -46 [prediction]

2)SM 15-12-72(3):-Tum bachchon ko hi Baba sabhi sukh dete hain. Aise nahin yah makan ShivBaba va Brahma Baba kaa hai. Nahin. Sabhi kuch bachcho ke liye hain. Tum Brahman bachche ho. Ismay jhagde aadi ki koyi baat nahin. Sabhi ki COMBINED PROPERTY HAI. Itnay sabhi dher bachche hain. Partition kuch bhi ho na sake. Govt. bhi kuch kar na sake. Yah to braahman bachcho kaa hai. Sabhi malik hain. Sabhi bachche ho na. Koyi garib hai koyi sahukar hai. Yahaan sabhi aakar rahte hain. Koyi ki property nahin. Dher bachche hain. Hazaaron laakhon ke andaaz may ho jaavenge. Sabhi kuch tum meethe bachchon ke liye hai. Brahma baba bhi kahte hain sabhi kuch tumhaare liye hain. Tum ho ruhaani bachche. Tum jitnaa pyaare ho utna lowkik ho nahin sakte. Vah shoodr jaat ke, tum braahman jaat ke. Isliye unsay connection toot jaataa hai. Sanyaasi aise nahin kahenge yah sabhi kuch tumaare liye hai. Yah donon kahte hain sabhi kuch tum bachchon kaa hai. Main bhi tumhaaraa hun.

3)SM 5-11-73(3):-. 8 Baadshahi to hogi na. To buddhi may yah sab khyaalaat chalne chahiye. Hum kitne number may pass honge. Yah bada bhaari school hai. Ismay laakhon karodon padhenge. Dher aavenge.

= This is a big, great school. Lakhs, crores will study here. Many will come.

4)SM 11-3-10(3):- BRAAHMAN TOH ABHI LAAKHON KI ANDAAJ MAY HONGE. Parantu ismey bhi sagey aur lagey to honge na. Sagey achchi service karenge. Maa Baap ki math par challenge. Kuch Ram ki math par kuch Ravan ki math par langdaate chalengey. [inf, srimath, warning, prediction]

• This school will progress further. If these obstacles do not come, then it will progress very fast. That is why obstacles come in the way. If 500 (souls) study together, then microphones will be needed. How will an old lady understand through a microphone? That is the reason for this limit, so that Father can see the children directly. Father looks at the souls, is not it? He doesn't see the bodies. If He looks at them with spiritual force, they will forget their bodies. He is a magnet is not it? So it will be like an incarnation.
[Mu 25-6-78 Pg-3]


• Day by day, you will see that Baba will not leave Madhuban. [Mu 1-12-77 Pg-2]

• Except the Supreme Father Supreme Soul, nobody can explain the secret of 84 births.
[Mu 24-9-73 Pg-3]

• Sanyasis (monks) have a lot of faith in scriptures. Big vehicles or trucks full of scriptures are taken out in a procession. Similarly, in the Jagannath Temple the deities are placed on a Chariot and taken out in a procession. This is done to respect them. [ Mu 28-4-76 Pg-1]

• Aurobindo Ghosh escaped alone. Then some good soul entered into him. Now his followers have increased so much. This happens always. [Mu 13-10-73 Pg-3]

• This year something is going to happen surely, for which you have been planning. But someone has to
become instrumental. But everything will happen as per drama. But whoever becomes instrumental will
become famous in the Brahmin family. This is also a prize. [Av31-10-75 Pg-225]

• Those living outside will gallop faster than those living here (with Baba). [Mu. 1-12-70]


AIVV - PBK : The outsiders, i.e. PBKs galloped faster and recognized the form of Father(Virendra Dev Dixit + Shiv) whereas those BKs living with Lekhraj Kirpalani lagged behind.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : PBKs are still dependent on Lekhraj Kirpalani, both Sakar and Avyakt Murlis from BKWSU, and they believe in the end, their place is Mount Abu. Also- we can see countless errors and blunders of them. Moreoever baba od PBKs is moving gali2 to give gyaan and their Jagadamba has gones out of AIVV , gave birth to children. If all these are like galloping, then let them have such (blind) faith. Let us hope all the very best.

• Those who are being pushed from pillar to post do not know me. They do not know that Father is teaching and giving inheritance, and making Masters of the World. Now you need not run from pillar to post.

• Nobody has been made to cry (i.e. hurt) as much as God. [Mu 3-9-74 Pg ]


AIVV - PBK : Does God ever cry ? Actually it is the permanent Chariot of God, Virendra Dev Dixit who has been made to cry very much by the so called BKs at the staring of Advance Party of PBKs.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Baba sometimes jokes in Murlis.

1)SM 25-9-73(4):- Ksheer sagar ka ek lake Nepal may bhi banayi hai. Ismay LN bhi dikhaate hain. Ksheer sagar (ka) ek model bana diya hai. Mahima ke liye. Kahte hain vahaan ghee ki nadiyaan bahut hain. To zaroor ghee ka sagar hoga na. Jis_se nadiyaan nikalti hain. Bachchiyaan panda bankar aati hain. Vah achcha hai. Pande bankar aanaa service ki nishaani hai. Vah achchaa hai. Do2 varsh may koyi ko le na aave to unko hajaam panda kahenge. Baba hasi kudi karte hain. Tum to sikhiladhe bachche ho. Ishwar kahte hain tum mere praan ho. Main tum pranon ka Ishwar hun. Praan aatma ko kaha jata hai.

2)SM 4-4-78(1):- BHAGAVAAN NAARAAZ HO GAYA HAI BHAKTON PAR KYONKI UNHONEY SARVAVYAAPI KAH GAALI DEE HAI. -82- [wot] -vimp

= God has become angry on devotees, because they have insulted him by saying omnipresent.

Does God really become angry over devotees? [BTW, now, PBKs are automatically implying that Mr Dixit has anger or hatredness, is it not]


• I am a Ramta Jogi (i.e. a wandering monk). I can uplift anyone (spiritually) [Mu 24-4-70]

• People say that wherever we see, we find Ram everywhere. Now it is human beings who live everywhere (and not God), is not it? [Mu 16-3-75 ]

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VIEWS on "Murli points for churning and inculcation"

Post by admin » 23 Jan 2016

VIEWS on "Murli points for churning and inculcation"

== STILL UNDER CONSTRUCTION ==

This topic is being commenced to segregate the posts, (with views of PBKs and BKs), from the topic "Murli points for churning and inculcation", so that ONLY posts with JUST the Murli points, (WITHOUT ANY VIEWS), will remain in that topic, (for perusal of all concerned), and any posts which contain views of PBKs and BKs have been moved into this topic, so that PBKs and BKs can present their corresponding views for each point of Knowledge highlighted in this topic henceforth.

'mbbhat' is requested to provide the views of BKs against all the PREVIOUS Murli points in all relevant posts in this topic, which have PBKs views, but which do not have corresponding views of BKs so far. This will enable the viewers to readily have access to BOTH the PBK and BK viewpoints in a more comprehensive manner for comparative study.

SAT

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Re: VIEWS on "Murli points for churning and inculcation"

Post by Abhimanyu » 23 Jan 2016

Yadav - Kaurav - Pandav

• Kauravas (villains of the epic Mahabharata represented by the 100 princes who opposed their righteous cousins called Pandavas, who relied on Krishna) chased them away; they will then chase everyone away. [Mu.25-5-78 Pg-3]

AIVV - PBK : Kauravas(BKs) do attack Pandavas(PBKs) and chase them away when any PBK narrate advance Gyan to BKs.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : 1)SM 21-4-85(2):- Koyi bhi ganda aadmi jiski chalan theek na ho, to centre par unko aane nahin denaa hai. Samajh honi chahiye. Baba ke direction milte hain na. Bad_chalanvaale ko aane nahin denaa hai. School may koyi bad_chalan chalte hain toh bahut maar khaate hain. Teacher sabkey aage batlaate hain ki isney aisee bad_chalan kee hai. Isliye inko school se nikaalaa jaataa hai. TUMHAAREY CENTRES PAR BHI AISEE GANDI DRUSHTIVALE AATE HAIN TOH UNKO BHAGAA DENAA CHAAHIYE. -27 [srimath, warning]

2)SM 19-11-82(3):- BAAP KAHTE HAIN MUJHE KITNI MEHNATH KARNI PADTI HAI, KITNAA ONAA RAHTAA HAI. Kahaan koyi bachchi gundon ke haath may na aa jaave. Duniyaa bahut gundi(dirty) hai. CENTRE PAR GUNDEY AA JAATE HAIN. NAAM ROOP MAY FAS PADTEY HAIN. Yagy may anek prakaar ke vighn bhi padtey hain. Maya bhi vighn daalti hai. Phir bahut ghutkaa khaate hain. Phir bhi Baap ko Yaad karnaa padey. YUDDH KE MAIDAAN MAY KHADEY HOKAR LADNAA HAI. Darnaa nahin hai. FAARKATI BAHUT DE DETE HAIN. KITNEY VARSH RAH PAALNAA LE PHIR SHAADI KAR KAHAAN KAA KAHAAN CHALEY GAYE. Aashcharyavanti bhaaganti ho jaate hain. PHIR BHI DRAMA KI BHAAVI KAH CHUP HO JAATE HAIN. Service may rahneyvaalon ko khushi jaasthi rahti hai. -95 [warning, god’s acts, baith]

3)SM 21-10-82(2):- Maya aisee hai jo 6 – 8 varshvaale bhi dekho aaj hai nahin. Baap se nahin roostey hain, parantu aapas may rooth_th jaate hain. Baap toh yahaan baithey hain. ShivBaba se roothaa to khatm ho jaayegaa. Baba ke sivaaye Murli kaise sunn sakenge. Doosri baath dhyaan ka part chaltaa hai. PHALAANI MAY Mama AAYI, PHALAANI MAY BABA AAYAA, YAH BHI EK Maya HAI. Bahut khabardaari se chalnaa hai. KOYI2 MAY BHOOTH AA JAATAA HAI. CHAREEKHAREE BAALAKI MAY BHI KAHTHAY HAIN ShivBaba AAYAA. Murli CHALAATE HAIN. YAH SAB Maya VIGHN DAALTI HAI. Bahut traitor nikal jaate hain. Dhokhaa dete hain. In sab baathon se bahut sambaal karni hai. Padhaayi par pooraa dhyaan denaa hai. Nahin to Maya bahut hairaaan karegi. TOOFAAN BAHUT AAYENGE. JAISE VAIDY LOG KAHTE HAIN KI BEEMAARI BAAHAR NIKLEGI, DARNAA NAHIN. BABA SAMJHAATE HAIN Maya CHALTHAY2 AISEE ANGOORI LAGAAYEGI JO BABA KO BHULAA DEGI. HARAANE KI BAHUT KOSHISH KAREGI. Yuddh hai hi 5 vikaar Ravan se. -54- [Murli, Yaad, warning, Maya, PBKs]

4)• Only Shrimat will make you great. You should not even see the faces of those people who give immoral directions. [Mu 5-4-74]

Similarly, if some PBKs become traitors, followers of Ravan, what do to?

• How much ever you explain, it will not fit into their intellect. They won't love God. That's why it's sung, "Kauravas’ intellect opposed God whereas Pandavas’ intellect loved God. [Mu.18-11-74 Pg-3]

AIVV - PBK : No matter how much Advanced Knowledge is explained to BKs, it does not fit into their intellect. Also they don't love the corporeal form of God(Veerendra Dev Dixit + Shiv). They are always ready to oppose the corporeal form of God(Veerendra Dev Dixit + Shiv).

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : It is said to lowkik people as well as weak BKs. But, fits best to PBKs than anyone else as proved in the forum.

• Father comes and explains every Kalpa (cycle of 5000 years). He's explaining just as he did in the last Kalpa. Kauravas and Pandavas are shown, is not it? They are not from a different village or country. [Mu.20-4-77 Pg-2]

• One is Yadav (members of the race to which Krishna belonged) advice, other is Kaurava advice and this is now Pandava advice. Pandavas receive Godly advice. [Mu.25-5-78 Pg-2]

• Kauravas and Pandavas were Brothers. They (the Kauravas) were devilish Brothers. And they (the Pandavas) were deity like Brothers. Father made them deity-like Brothers by making them great.
[Mu.2-11-78 Pg-1]


AIVV - PBK : The Kauravas(BKs) do devilish acts like causing physical assaults to Pandavas(PBKs). Supreme Father Shiv(in Veerendra Dev Dixit/Shankar) is on Pandava side and thus making them great like deities.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : It is heard that Mr Dixit himself ordered to murder a person in AIVV(mostly the victim was an engineer). Moreover a witness in the forum has said that Mr. Dixit slapped some sister even during Amrit Vela. And, PBKs even quote Murli points that- farther can sometimes beat children for the benefit of the children! [The Murli point was said for physically young children, but PBKs believe even such beatings of Mr Dixit is OK].

Regarding pandavas, koravasa and yaadavas- some views are here - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... vas#p13524

BTW, as per PBKs, where do splinter group fit to be among these three? Also where is Vedanti at present? And, what about kamala Devi?

• Pandavas and Kauravas are in the Confluence Age. You Pandavas are Sangamyugi (i.e. Confluence aged) and Kauravas are Kali Yugi (i.e. Iron Aged). [Mu.19-6-75 Pg-1]

AIVV - PBK : Pandavas(PBKs) are Sangamyugi because they have found God Shiva in corporeal form in Veerendra Dev Dixit/Shankar whereas Kauravas(BKs) have not found so in a way they are Kali Yugi.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : A big joke.
BTW, as per their own views, PBKs will have to agree that the next splinter group have gone to the NEXT ADVANCE STAGE, probably already in Golden period of Conf. Age. But, let them be happy with their faith, enjoy at least in ignorance.

• Who are the Maharathis (elephant mounted warriors, i.e. highest effort makers in the Brahmin world) in the Pandava army? Who are the Maharathis in Kaurava army? You know both the armies, is not it? These are matters to be understood. [Mu.18-4-73 Pg-4]

AIVV - PBK : There are maharathis in Pandava(PBKs) army as their are maharathis in Kaurav(BKs) army(like Kumarka, Janki, Jagdeesh).

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Mostly, Baba may be saying kouravas for egoist lowkik Gurus, and even for some evil minded politicians and leaders and those who are working for destruction. And, pandavas for real great BK souls.

Baba has clearly said- Kumarka will win, even for Dadi Janki, and also for Jagadish Bhaiji.

SM 24-7-79(2):- Numberwaar pass hote hain. Koyi fail bhi hote hain. RAMCHANDR KO FAIL KAHENGE. KYONKI Maya PAR JEETH NAHIN PAHAN SAKEY. Tumhaari bhi yuddh chal rahi hai. TUM DEKH RAHE HO, JIS RATH PAR BAAP VIRAAJMAAN HAIN, VAH TOH JEETH HEE LENGE. JAISE KUMAARKAA HAI,FALANI HAI, ZAROOR JEETH PAAVENGI. -40 [Ram, number one, PBKs, rath]
= Passing will be numberwise. (But) some will get failed. Ram chandr is called/announced as failed. Because he could not conquer Maya. Even your fight/war is going on. You are seeing. The Chariot on which Father is sitting(Lekhraj Kirpalani), will definitely win. Like Kumarka, (and the few) others will definitely win.


• Pandavas were incognito. Yadavas and Kauravas were cognate. [Mu.20-5-73 Pg-3]

AIVV - PBK : Pandavas(PBKs) are incognito. Outside world do not know about them. Whereas Yadavas(Europeans) and Kauravas(BKs) are well known in the outside world.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : BKs are still not known enough or in fully recognized as god's instruments. And, obviously, they should be recognized slowly and slowly. Baba has also said- till the very end, you will not be incognito, the growth would be continuously emerging.

1)SM 9-11-87(3):- GARIB NIVAAZ PATIT PAAVAN BAAP HI GAAYAA HUVAA HAI. Ab practical may part bajaa rahe hain. BADI2 SABHAAVON MAY TUMKO SAMJHAANAA HAI. VIVEK KAHTAA HAI KI DHEEREY2 VAAH2 NIKLEGI. LAST MOVEMENT MAY DANKAA BAJNAA HAI. ABHI TOH BACHCHON PAR GRAHACHAARI BAITH_TI RAHTI HAI. LINE CLEAR NAHIN HAI. VIGHN PADTEY RAHTE HAIN. Jitnaa purushaarth karenge utni praalabdh oonchi milegi. PANDAVON KO THEEN PYER PRUTHVI KE NAHIN MILTHAY THAY. ABHI KAA YAH GAAYAN HAI. Parantu yah kisko pataa nahin ki vahi phir vishw kaa maalik banenge. -109 [gaayan, warning, prediction]

BTW, Om Mandli was very well known by 1936 itself as it was published in newspapers as- Om Mandi is richest in the world. So, do PBKs believe that was also kouravas?

Even PBKs are known to many outside people now due to their websites- For example- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... 008#p15003 or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adhyatmik ... _Vidyalaya

• They are named Pandavas and Kauravas; both were Brothers. They (i.e. Kauravas) were of Ravana’s community and they (i.e. Pandavas) were of Ram’s community. They were from the same village.
[Mu.7-9-73 Pg-3]


AIVV - PBK : Pandavas(PBKs) and Kauravas(BKs) are both Brothers as they are children of God Shiva. But BKs are Brahmins as Ravan, Kumbhkaran, Meghnad used to be(they are also called Brahmins in scriptures). Whereas(PBKs) belong to Ram's community(as Veerendra Dev Dixit is soul of Ram).

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : The contrast in PBK view which is limited, or one sided does not tally. If we see scriptures, not even a single pandava or Ram was a braahmin. All were Kshatriyas. But, the Ravan, Mehgnad, etc fit for lowkik religious people who misuse scriptures or PBKs, whose aim of their whole life is to attack/criticize BKs. In the agenda of PBKs, that lists the top priority.

• Pandavas were not given even three feet land. It's a story of the present times. But nobody knows that the same people (i.e. Pandavas) become the masters of the world. [Mu.8-11-73 Pg-6]

AIVV - PBK : Pandavas(PBKs) do not possess power,property or authority as Kauravas(BKs) have. Thus Pandavas(PBKs) are not given even three feet of land. But in near future same Pandavas(PBKs) are going to become masters of the world.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Already replied.

12-08-72(3):- Abhee tum sammukh sunte ho. Aur bachche tape se sunenge. Ek din TeleVision par bhee dekhenge. Aise mat samajhnaa yah mahangee cheez yahaan naheen aa saktee hai. Sabhee kuch hogaa. Pichadeevaalon ke liye aur hee sahaj ho jaavegaa. Himmate bachche madade baap. Yah bhee prabandh ho jaavegaa. Service karnevaale achche honge to yah bhee sabhee prabandh ho jaavegaa bachchon kee unnati ke liye. Vah bhee jisko chaahiye le sakte hain.
= Now, you listen in front. Other children listen through tape. One day- you will see even in TV. Don’t think that costly items will not come here. Everything will come. FOR THOSE WHO COME IN THE END, IT WILL BECOME MORE EASIER…..

I can just say- it is owner's pride, neighbour's envy.

• Nine precious stones are famous, is not it? They are the false precious stones (i.e. souls) of Kaurava community. They will also become famous like President, Prime minister, and Home minister. Who all are the big ones among the Kaurava community and who are the big personalities among the Pandava community? So this has to be explained. [Mu.27-12-73 Pg-4]

AIVV - PBK : Badi Dadi, Dada and Didis are false precious stones of Kaurav(BKs) community. They hold position like President, Prime minister and Home minister in BK world.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Lowkik VIP personalities are of precious stones of Kourava army. And- in pandavas- Lekhraj Kirpalani, Mama and then others numberwise.

SM 23-3-78(2):- Imtihaan bahut badaa bhaari hai. 8 vijay mala ke daanein bante hain. Ismay bhi ek to hai Mama kumari. Aur yah phir hai boodhaa. Mama javan hai. Achchaa padhkar pad pati hai. Yah bhi boodhepan may padhkar imtihaan to pass karte hain na.


• Kauravas and Pandavas have their own flags, both have their own Kingdoms. One is cognitive Kingdom (i.e. of Kauravas) and one is incognito kingdom (i.e. of Pandavas). [Mu.30-1-72 Pg-1]

AIVV - PBK : Kauravas(BKs) kingdom is cognitive, i.e. it is known to the outside world whereas the kingdom of Pandavas(PBKs) is incognito, i.e. it is not known to the outside world.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Simple to understand. Lowkik Govt (Kourava) and BKWSU (pandava) govts. Each have their own flags. BTW, is there flag of AIVV?

• Rivers of blood will flow there. It's a fight between Yavanas and Kauravas. Pandavas never fight.
[Mu.7-7-72 Pg-4]

• The charioteer of Pandavas was God himself. [Mu.20-2-71]


AIVV - PBK : The charioteer of Pandavas(PBKs) is God Shiva by being present in corporeal form(i.e. Shiv in Shankar/Veerendra Dev Dixit).

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : So, do PBKs believe BKs are fighting with yavanas? And- do PBKs believe they never fight/argue with BKs?

• Kauravas and Pandavas were also there. Supreme Father Supreme Soul himself was helper on the Pandavas’ side. [Mu.20-10-71 Pg-10]

AIVV - PBK : Supreme Father Supreme Soul is present on Pandavas(PBKs) side via being present in Veerendra Dev Dixit/Shankar.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Response already given.

• Now it's Kaurava Kingdom, it's even written in History that Kauravas used to keep troubling Pandavas, because Kauravas were numerous and Pandavas were few. Many stories are written in the scriptures. Now you are seeing all that in practical. Both do not have kingdom. But, Kaurava gathering and Pandava gathering is there, is not it? [Mu.3-11-71P-1]

AIVV - PBK : Kauravas(BKs) do keep troubling Pandavas(PBKs). Also Kauravas(BKs) are numerous and Pandavas(PBKs) are few.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Actually most of the BKs are least bothered about PBKs. Many BKs do not know what is AIVV or do not think of them for months or years. Very few BKs only discuss even knowledge with them. Some BKs may react for the actions done by PBKs. But, every PBK considers BKWSU as kouravas. So, whose drushti is wrong?

• Those who know Father and love him (preet buddhi) are called Pandavas. Those who do not love Father (vipreet buddhi) are called Kauravas. [Mu.25-12-68; 25-12-70 Pg-2]

AIVV - PBK : Well we can love somebody only if he is present in corporeal form. You do not love or hate a point of light(Shiva). Thus Pandavas(PBKs) know Father(Shiv + Veerendra Dev Dixit/Shankar) and love him. Whereas Kauravas(BKs) do not love Father(Shiv+Veerendra Dev Dixit/Shankar) but instead they hate him.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Let PBKs pat their back. Their Father is a widower now, with neither Kamala Devi, nor sister Vedanti. Why BKs should be expected to love Mr Dixit, that too as per their view when he is proved a great fool and deceiver in the forum?

• It's said about Pandavas that they were strong in service. That's why they are shown to possess strong bodies. But they are actually strong-hearted and strong minded. But how can the mind or heart be shown? So the body has been shown. [Mu.25-3-76 Pg-3]

• It is famous that Pandavas (as per the epic Mahabharata) were not being given 3 feet of land (by their cousins Kauravas). But Father (referring to Krishna) was capable. So He granted them the Kingdom of the world. Now the same role will be played. [Mu.25.3.76, pg.3]

• On one side are blind children (referring to the character wise blind Kauravas of the epic Mahabharata) of the blind (King Dhritarashtra) who cry for the (walking) stick. On the other side are Pandavas who do not cry. Supreme Father, Supreme Soul himself is practically on their side, to guide them. [Mu.16--10-76]


AIVV - PBK : Kauravas(BKs) are blind as they do not recognize corporeal form of God Father(i.e. Shiv in Veerendra Dev Dixit/Shankar). Also Supreme Father, Supreme Soul Shiva is practically present on Pandavas side by being present in his fixed Chariot Veerendra Dev Dixit/Shankar.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Blindness of PBKs can easily be seen here- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2593

• Even in the scriptures it's described that the Kauravas and Pandavas used to fight during the day and used to behave like Brothers in the night. They used to think how a spark of anger emerged in them. Baba we are sorry. [Mu.17-2-78 Pg-2]

• Pandavas means those who are always strong. That’s why they are shown to possess tall and strong bodies. They are never depicted to be weak. The soul is strong, mighty. Instead of that, the body is shown to be mighty. The victory of Pandavas is famous. Kauravas, in spite of being in millions lost. And Pandavas, in spite of being just five, were victorious. Why did they gain victory? Because Father is there along with the Pandavas. Pandavas are mighty. They possess spiritual power. That's why the power of millions of Kauravas is nothing before them. You are like that, is not it. Let anyone come before you, let Maya come in any form, it should return defeated; it shouldn't win. Such ones are called victorious Pandavas. Mothers are also present in the Pandava armies, is not it... One, who's weak, hides in the house. The courageous comes to the battlefield. [Av.3-2-88; Pg-2/3]


AIVV - PBK : Pandavas(PBKs) souls are strong in knowledge and Yoga. No BK can confront PBK in knowledge and Yoga so BKs instead of giving the answer with support of knowledge use physical power to chase PBKs away when any PBK tries to explain the Advanced Knowledge to BKs. In very near future Pandavas(PBKs) would be victorious and Kauravas(BKs) in spite of being in huge number will loose because Father Shiva is present with them(PBKs) via being present in Veerendra Dev Dixit/Shankar. Pandavas(PBKs) possess more spiritual power power when compared to BKs that's why power of millions of Kauravas(BKs) is nothing before them.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Then why do PBKs believe Bull control Shankar and even moon/Lekhraj Kirpalani creates eclipse on earth/KDevi? If PBKs are strong, why did kamala Devi left Yagya? Why did many PBKs failed and got into other splinter groups?

Also- here- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2595&p=49917&hilit=1131#p49917 or here- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAbWfJsHcdA

Regarding pandavas fighting during day and friends during night, most probably, Baba may be referring to the story of mahabharat during their childhood, where it is shown that during day they used to fight, but they all used to sleep in the same palace, eat and drink together.

• Kaurav Government and Pandav Government are different, is not it? In the Golden Age there's just one Govt. So now this Pandav Govt. is new. That’s just a Congress Govt. The Pandav Govt. also began at the same time as the Congress Govt. [Mu.10-2-75, Pg-1]

• The Pandavas were evicted from their country, isn’t it? So this cowshed was set up, isn’t it?
[Mu.17.5.73, pg.3]


AIVV - PBK : Pandavas(PBKs) have been evicted from BKs country/kingdom. So cowshed of virgin and mothers (who are like cows) started in BKs world. Well BKs head Kumarka/Dadi Prakashmani gave directions to virgins & mothers who sat on 'sandali' to give drishti to their followers. So corruption of eyes started in BK world(this is cowshed). In no Murli Baba has given direction that virgins or mothers should give drishti to others. Because only the drishti of God will cause upliftment and drishti of others will only cause downfall.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Regarding the two govts, both BKWSU and the Indian govt started at alomst same period. BKWSU in 1937, and India got independence (Congress GovT) in 1947. Both were beginners. And, BKWSU actually became strong after beggary period. - say 1950s . India also became a republic in 1950s.

Allegations of AIVV does not stand here. PBKs believe their own Sevakram died or left Yagya in 1942 , even when their two mothers had been controlling the ENTIRE Yagya. - viewtopic.php?f=38&t=2521&hilit=Sevakram or here- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2579&p=49773&hilit=entire#p49773

Regarding drusthi, baba has clearly said- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... hti#p12543

BTW, are PBKs allergic to drushti? baba gives title Master Patitpavani. And- follow Father. So, should not children follow Father?

• So huge pictures of Pandavas have been made. This means that they were very broad minded (vishaal buddhi). Their intellect was very large. They(the painters)have then shown huge bodies. [Mu.12-2-74 Pg-2]

AIVV - PBK : Pandavas(PBKs) are very broad minded in knowledge & Yoga. Many BKs fear to confront them in terms of knowledge.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : It is not question of fear. Why should BKs listen to some others when they believe they have god with them?

Baba has also said- Tumhen kisee se sun_ney kee darkaar naheen hai. Kaho- hum sun_ney ke liye naheen aaye hain = there is no need for you listen from others. Tell them we are not here to listen. [Aim of BKs is to give message and move on].

But, Mr Dixit as some fear and hence always demands letter of faith. - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2595&p=49917&hilit=1131#p49917 or here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAbWfJsHcdA

Why should BKs listen to such people- Post No. 45- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=49709&hilit=reap#p49709

The main cause is said here- Post No. 151- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... 51+#p13165

AIVV - PBK : A note for all knowledge seekers -:
Baba has said in Murli that he speaks about unlimited matters to the children with unlimited intellects, but children with limited intellects take it's meaning in limited form.
So whatever has been commented by me, as PBK viewpoint, is based on Advanced Knowledge. Advanced Knowledge is clarification of Murlis by soul of Shiva in which he explains those unlimited topics through his fixed Chariot Veerendra Dev Dixit/Shankar.


PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Thank you for the view points of PBKs. All the very best to all of you.

SAT view : By now, for those who are becoming familiar with the proceedings on this forum, it would be becoming increasingly clear that in the LATTER part of the Confluence Age DUALITY is INVOLVED - with TWO ShivBabas, TWO Prajapita Brahmas, TWO Vishnus, TWO Shankars, TWO Adi Devs, TWO Ramas, TWO Krishnas, TWO MAIN L & Ns, etc., etc., etc. THIS IS PERFECTLY AS PER DRAMA PLAN.
The EXOTIC BEAUTY of the whole MATTER is that EACH of the MAJOR IDEOLOGIES will STAUNCHLY believe that THEIR 'ShivBaba', who is THEIR UNLIMITED Father, speaks of UNLIMITED matters to THEM, and THEY have UNLIMITED INTELLECTS, while the other GROUP have 'limited' intellects and therefore take the 'limited' meanings of what THEIR ShivBaba says! THAT, IN ESSENCE, IS THE WHOLE GAME. SO, ENJOY!

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