COMMENTS on "SM & AV points for churning"

To discuss the BK and PBK versions relating to the progressive differential development of BK & PBK ideologies or theologies.
sita
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Re: COMMENTS on "SM & AV points for churning"

Post by sita » 03 Sep 2015

I think the point says that the argument that something looks good is not valid. Like on the path of Bhakti they make pictures because it looks good, but there is no knowledge in these. Similarly, if on the path of knowledge we make a picture with the argument that it looks good, it does not mean there is knowledge in this. There is no knowledge in the point of light above the three personalities, because there is no information like introduction of the name, form, place, time, acts.

Indeed they have changed the faces on the picture of the Trimurti, but they have just borrowed the faces from the Bhaktimarg pictures, because they look good. There is no information in this about who are these like living personalities. It is said we have to prepare living pictures.

It is said that why do you remove Shankar. If you remove Shankar you will also be removed.

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Re: COMMENTS on "SM & AV points for churning"

Post by mbbhat » 03 Sep 2015

sita wrote:I think the point says that the argument that something looks good is not valid.
What do you say about the Murli point when it says- "Actually in Trimurti, it should be Brahma, Vishnu and Shiv, not Shankar""?

Moreover, why has AIVV not addressed these Murli points so far at all? Is this not clear proof that AIVV has DELIBERATELY hidden lots of such Murli points and continue to indulge in just one-sided arguments?
It is said that why do you remove Shankar.
I have heard Murli point saying- Brahma hee Vishnu bantaa hai. Baaki rahaa Shankar. Kumarka, tum Shankar ko chodtee kyon ho? = Brahma becomes Vishnu. Then remaining is Shankar. Kumarka, why do you leave Shankar? .
If you remove Shankar you will also be removed.

I have not heard so. Mostly, it is a deliberate error done by AIVV, like exposed here- see error No. 1) and 2) - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2593

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Re: COMMENTS on "SM & AV points for churning"

Post by sita » 03 Sep 2015

What do you say about the Murli point when it says- "Actually in Trimurti, it should be Brahma, Vishnu and Shiv, not Shankar""?
Do you mean this point:

The Trinity picture which is displayed should have Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. But, how can one keep Shiva
beside them, so Shankar has been shown. It makes it befitting. There is no beauty in showing just two deities.
Otherwise, there is no role for Shankar. [Mu 7-5-69 Pg-1]

I don't know which is the correct interpretation of the above point. Probably that it would not seem right to show two deities and a point beside them. It means that this Shiva is part of the Trimurti besides Brahma and Vishnu. Possibly the corporeal personality through whom he is revealed is shown instead.

Another point is that if Shiva, the point of light, is shown above the heads of Brahma, Vishnu, Shankar, is this correct, with respect to the fact that he is not associated with Vishnu?
I have heard Murli point saying- B hee V bantaa hai. Baaki rahaa Shankar. Kumarka, tum Shankar ko chodtee kyon ho? = B becomes V. Then the remaining is Shankar. Kumarka, why do you leave Shankar? .

If you remove Shankar you will also be removed.

I have not heard so. Mostly, it is deliberately error done by AIVV like exposed here- see error No. 1) and 2) - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2593

It is possible I have memorised it wrongly, because I don't find this point now.

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Re: COMMENTS on "SM & AV points for churning"

Post by mbbhat » 04 Sep 2015

sita wrote:Do you mean this point:
The Trinity picture which is displayed should have Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. But, how can one keep Shiva
beside them, so Shankar has been shown. It makes it befitting. There is no beauty in showing just two deities.
Otherwise, there is no role for Shankar. [Mu 7-5-69 Pg-1]
Yes. But, I meant to the highlighted words.

2)SM 20-4-89(1):- Yah bhi bachche jaante hain Rudr_mala bhi hai jo gaayi aur pooji jati hai. Simiran ki jati hai. Bhakt_mala bhi hai. Oonche oonch bhakton ki maalaa hai. Hai to saari bhakt_mala, Ravan_mala. Is kalp ke Sangamyug ke pahle jo bhi hain sab hai Ravan_mala. Usmey phir bhakt_mala bhi hai. Bhakt_mala ke baad honi chahiye gyaan_mala. Bhakti aur gyaan hai na. Bhakt_mala bhi hai to rudr_mala bhi hai. Peeche phir rund_mala kaha jata hai. Kyonki oonche te oonch manushy srushti may hain Vishnu jisko sookshm_vatan may dikhate hain. LN raajy to yahaan karte hain to kahenge Vishnu ki rund_mala bhi hai. Prajapita Brahma to yah (Brahma Baba) hai. Unki mala zaroor hai. Aakhrin yah mala bann jaayegi. Tab hi vah rudr_mala aur Vishnu ki rund_mala banegi. Oonche te oonch hai ShivBaba. Phir oonch te oonch hai Vishnu ka raajya. Yah Trimurti jo dikhaya hai- usmey hona chahiye Brahma Vishnu aur Shiv na ki Shankar. Parantu baaju may Shiv ko kaise rakhen? To phir Shankar ko rakh diya hai. Aur Shiv ko oopar may rakha hai. Usmey shobha achchi hoti hai. Sirf do(=two) shobha nahin dete. Shankar ki mala nahin kahenge. Brahma Vishnu aur Rudr Mala; Bas. Shobha ke liye Bhakti may kitney chitr banaye hain. Parantu gyaan kuch bhi nahin hai. Tum jo chitr banate ho unki pahchaan deni hai to manushy samajh jaaye. Nahin to Shiv Shankar ko mila dete hain. Baba ne samjhaya hai sookshm_vatan may bhi saari saakshaatkaar ki baath hai. Haddi maans vahaan hota nahin. Saakshaatkaar karte hain. Sampoorn Brahma bhi hai. Parantu vah hai sampoorn avyakti. Abhi vyakt Brahma jo hai, unko Avyakt ban_na hai. Vyakt hi Avyakt hota hai jisko pharista bhi kahte hain. Unka sookshmvatan may chitr rakh diya hai. Sookshmvatan may jate hain, kahte hain, Baba ne shoobi_ras pilaya. Ab vahaan jhaad aadi hota nahi. Vaikunth may hain, lekin aise nahin ki Vaikunth se le aakar pilate honge. Yah sab sookshmvatan may saakshaatkaar ki baath hai. Ab bachche jante hain ab vaapis ghar jana hai. -154


= Children also know that rudr Mala is also there which is praised and worshipped. It is remembered/chanted. There is also bhakt Mala. It is of highest devotees. Actually all belong to bhaktmala, Ravan Mala. All belong/ed to Ravan Mala before Confluence Age in this kalp. In it there is also bhakt mala. After the bhakt Mala, Gyan mala should form/come. There is bhakt mala and also rudr mala. Later it is said rundmala. Because highest of high in this creation is Vishnu who is shown in Subtle Region. LN rule here. So (we) say there is also Rund mala of Vishnu. This is Prajapita Brahma. Definitely there is mala of him. This mala will get formed in the end. Then only it will become rudrmala and rundmala of Vishnu (or- then only that rudrmala and rundmala will get formed). The highest of high is ShivBaba. Then highest of high is kingdom of Vishnu. In the Trimurti shown- there should be brahma Vishnu and shiv, and not Shankar. But how can shiv be placed in the side? Hence Shankar is placed. And shiv is placed on the top. That looks good. Just two (below) does not look good. It cannot be said mala of Shankar. Brahma, Vishnu and Rudrmala. That is all. For show purpose, in Bhakti, so many pictures are done. But, there is no knowledge at all. If you explain through the picture you prepare, people may understand. Else, they mix Shiv and Shankar. Baba has explained about Subtle Region that it is all about visions. There is no bones and flesh. Visions happen. There is also complete Brahma. The present vyakt(corporeal) Brahma will become Avyakt. The same vyakt becomes Avyakt. His picture is kept at Subtle Region. Children go to Subtle Region. They say baba gave us shoobiras to drink. Now, there is nothing like trees, etc. It would be in heaven. But it is not that baba brings it from heaven and gives. It is all about visions. Now, children know that we have to return home.

So- real Trimurti picture (as per the above Murli point) should be Shiv on top and Brahma & Vishnu below.. Shankar has no place in real Trimurti picture. [Another Murli point says- Saraswathi can be placed in the seat of Shankar. Already put there. ]
It is possible I have memorized it wrongly, because I don't find this point now.
PBKs without seeing, without understanding , without doing any type of INTENSIVE self-churning & INTROSPECTION, without having any PROPER link with incorporeal ShivBaba, just continue with hear-says of AIVV, and keep on throwing stones at BKWSU; in fact, this is considered as "apney oopar hee kulhaadi maarnaa" or 'STRIKE the AXE on their OWN SELF'.

You may still do honest effort and realize the truth, it is STILL NOT TOO LATE!!!

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Re: COMMENTS on "SM & AV points for churning"

Post by sita » 06 Sep 2015

Brahma Vishnu aur Rudr Mala; Bas
The rosary of Rudra is said to be of corporeal personalities, and Rudra is also corporeal. Rudramala then becomes Vishnu mala.

The head of the rosary of Brahma is Brahma. Vishnu or Lakshmi & Narayan are heads of the rosary of Vishnu. Rudra is said to be corporeal. Here arises a question as to who is Rudra who is corporeal, and creates the rosary of Rudra of corporeal souls, that this rosary is separate to the rosary of Brahma.

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Re: COMMENTS on "SM & AV points for churning"

Post by mbbhat » 06 Sep 2015

The rosary of Rudra is said to be of corporeal personalities, and Rudra is also corporeal. Rudramala then becomes Vishnu mala.
ANY 'mala' or rosary has to be of corporeal personalities only (either corporeal personalities or God in a body), not just Rudramala*.

Rudra is SAME as Shiv only, but Shiv in a body, Shiv during Confluence Age. Rudra does not 'apply' to a human embodied soul, as indoctrinated to PBKs by Mr Dixit. Murli point clearly says- Shiv is Rudr.
Already put in the given link- post No. 101 or 107.
The head of the rosary of Brahma is Brahma. Vishnu or Lakshmi & Narayan are heads of the rosary of Vishnu. Rudra is said to be corporeal. Here arises a question as to who is Rudra who is corporeal, and creates the rosary of Rudra of corporeal souls,
that this rosary is separate to the rosary of Brahma.
The beads are not separate. Only the timing is separate. Like the very SAME brahmins only, THEMSELVES become deities.

We can say- Brahmins are 'separate', deities are 'separate', in a PARTICULAR sense.

We can also say- both are same, as the souls are same. The VERY same brahmins are going to become deities. In Rudramala, Shiv also will be there. But in Vishnumala HE is not placed as Shiv/Rudr does not come in heaven. In Mala of Brahma, I am not sure whether to place Shiv or not, but believe Shiv need not be placed (but anyhow is OK, because Shiv would be present during Conf Age). All the other beads remain same.

Already discussed here- viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2103&hilit=pirona. You will know the blunders committed by PBKs in understanding mala DECEPTIVELY, purely from a body-conscious perspective.
This is another clear example of 100% failure in interpreting the Murli points CORRECTLY.
But again, SAME IS PERFECTLY ACCURATE, as per Drama Plan, NOTHING NEW!
Children become NUMBER-WISE ACCORDING to their perception & comprehension of the Knowledge.

[Also put here- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... lit=rosary ]

But, please note that there is possibility of confusion for some whose mind fails to absorb deep points. The Murli point (No. 5 in the link)says - "Vishnumala is of corporeal(human beings), and rudrmala is of souls". The reason is- even if Rudrmala is of corporeal children, due to the body being impure, it/body does not get place in mala.**.

But, Vishnumala is of deities - both body and soul are pure. So, here, no confusion. You may have to read twice or thrice the Murli points.

*- But, mala of Brahma is not important , mainly Rudrmala and Vishnu/Vijaymala are enough for the churning.

In the SIMPLEST ESSENCE, (taking the basic minimum example of 108 souls), when they are Brahmins, they are 'purushartis' or effort-makers, and their stage can go up and down, and some who are not ACTUALLY in final 108 can be considered to be among 108 TEMPORARILY,when they are effort-makers, since their stage would keep on fluctuating and moving UP and DOWN sometimes, so mala of Brahma would keep on changing, and consists of SOULS+BODIES, but IMPURE SOULS+BODIES; BUT when they become COMPLETELY SOUL-CONSCIOUS at the VERY END, the ACTUAL 108 souls become FIXED, and there can be NO CHANGE after that, and the very SAME souls who were in FLUCTUATING mala of Brahma, THEN come into Rudramala, or mala of Shiv, and consist of PURE SOULS ONLY; AND when the VERY SAME souls who were IMPURE effort-makers as Brahmins, having achieved their final INCORPOREAL STAGE as PURE SOULS, THEN take PURE BODIES and come into the mala of Vishnu, which again consists of SOULS+BODIES, BUT PURE SOULS+BODIES.
This forms the essenceful TRANSFERENCE of the SAME 108 souls in the THREE DIFFERENT MALAS, at THREE DIFFERENT TIME SPANS, IN THREE DIFFERENT STAGES - "Brahmin-so-Farishta/BinduRup-so-Devta".

** - This clearly indicates that body of Rudr (Chariot) has no place in mala. In other words, it proves, with a high probability, that the same impure body cannot become pure as claimed by PBKs. The impure bodies will get destroyed.

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Re: COMMENTS on "SM & AV points for churning"

Post by sita » 06 Sep 2015

In the link about discussing the malas you have said that garlands are always of couples, but this is not the case with the garland of brahmins.

You say that rudramala is when souls have achieved their firm stage at the end. But you have also yourself provided a point that says that Rudra is corporeal. So at the end we must have a corporeal Rudra.

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Re: COMMENTS on "SM & AV points for churning"

Post by mbbhat » 07 Sep 2015

In the link about discussing the malas you have said that garlands are always of couples, but this is not the case with the garland of Brahmins.
Even in mala of braahmins, it is again couples, but during the 'purusharti' or effort-making period, they are INCOGNITO, since no one knows EXACTLY who their partner actually is or going to be (owing to their imperfect stage, they are still NOT FULLY TRINETRI & Trikaldarshi, ie. their Third Eye is STILL NOT fully opened and they are STILL NOT aware of the Three aspects of Time). Because mala will be formed in the end only, when all the children reach karmaateet stage, number-wise, to their maximum level permitted in drama, and when results will be declared. At the end, Brahma will be coupled with Saraswathi, (but they will be like farishta, not as father and daughter).
You say that rudramala is when souls have achieved their firm stage at the end. But you have also yourself provided a point that says that Rudra is corporeal. So at the end we must have a corporeal Rudra.
I have provided both the Murli points. One says Rudrmala is of souls (only), another says Rudrmala is of corporeal children. Without understanding the significance, PBKs directly come to conclusion that "in the end, we must have corporeal Rudr".

See- it is simple. If you read all the other Murli points, you will understand properly. In one Murli point, Baba says, "impure body cannot be worshipped", and those who do service only are remembered (the rudrmala= simiran kee mala). Now, deities/Vishnu do not do service, so they do not fall into Rudrmala.

Service is done while being in body and not just in end stage. But, most of the yaadgaars are of end stage. So, impure body will not get place in RudrMala. In the end stage, all the souls will leave their bodies, so why there should be corporeal Rudr at the end?

So- the yaadgaar is of the whole karma/service done in Confluence Age by Shiv (being in Chariot) or Braahmins, being in their own body, but all the bodies are impure, hence do not get place in mala.

Brahma will be ahead, so will become farishta much earlier than others and will be free from corporeal body or 'karma bandhan'.

Even after 1969, ShivBaba (with B baba) come in Dadi Gulzar. BapDada has also said, they may come in any corporeal body even after Dadi Gulzar. So, yes, Shiv/Rudr would be playing role in corporeal too till the end. - Post No. 119 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... &start=160

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Re: COMMENTS on "SM & AV points for churning"

Post by sita » 07 Sep 2015

mbbhat wrote:Even in mala of braahmins, it is again couples, but during the 'purusharti' or effort-making period, they are INCOGNITO, since no one knows EXACTLY who their partner actually is or going to be (owing to their imperfect stage, they are still NOT FULLY TRINETRI & Trikaldarshi, ie. their Third Eye is STILL NOT fully opened and they are STILL NOT aware of the Three aspects of Time). Because mala will be formed in the end only, when all the children reach karmaateet stage, number-wise, to their maximum level permitted in drama, and when results will be declared. At the end, Brahma will be coupled with Saraswathi, (but they will be like farishta, not as father and daughter).
For farishtas it is said they have connection with one God only.

No, it is said that the rudra mala is not worshiped.

One would conclude that the rosary of Brahmins is just the another name for rudramala, but then they are said one alongside the other.

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Re: COMMENTS on "SM & AV points for churning"

Post by mbbhat » 07 Sep 2015

One would conclude that the rosary of brahmins is just the another name for rudramala, but then they are said one alongside the other.
I also believe the same. So, I believe there are practically only two malas. Rudrmala (at the end of Kalpa, Rudr being the leader), and the other VishnuMala, which begins from the new world/Kalpa when Vishnu will be leader.
For farishtas it is said they have connection with one God only.
True. Because they do not have corporeal body. Farista is the stage between braahmin (effort making)) and the deities. So, their effort just completed, means they are qualified to become perfect couples in heaven. They are like couples behind the screen, but, ever ready.

Please read the Murli point No. 4) given in that link. Repeating here -

4)9-9-77(2):- LN ki dynasty kitna samay pahley hogi. JO RUDR KI MALA BANTI HAI, VAHI PHIR Vishnu KI MALA BAN JATI HAI. Yah gyaan tum bachchon ko milaa hai. PATIT SE JO PAVAN BANTE HAIN, UNHON KI HEE RUDRMALA NUMBERWAAR BANTI HAI. Rudrmala to bahut badi hai na. YAH 550 KAROD AATMAAVON KI MALA HAI. Sookshmvatan may bhi bani huyi hai na. Mala ka daanaa bhi aisaa bindi muvaaphik banana pade. Rudrmala banaate hain, to chotaa2 muh dete hain. Nahin to sumri nahin jaa sakti. FER NA SAKE. Isliye daaney banate hain. Rudraaksh ki mala yah hai. Vah hai rudraaksh jhaad ke mankon aadi ki. Bahut kisam ki banate hain. Vaastav may tum jaante ho RUDRMALA HEE Vishnu KI MALA BANTI HAI. Rudrmala bahut choti banana padey. AATMAAYEIN PHIR MANUSHY BANTI HAI. Atma kyaa hai? Parmatma kyaa hai? Unka part kyaa hai? Kyaa size hai? Yah baatein tumhaari buddhi may hain. Kitni choti si atma hai. Paramatma ko bhi Bhaktimarg may kitni mehnat karni padti hai. Dwaapar se Kaliyug anth tak athavaa Sangam ke anth tak kahe unka part chalta hai. Yah tum jaante ho. -12 [SP, mala, bindu, sookshmvatan]

= when would have been the dynasty of LN? THE RUDRMALA ITSELF LATER BECOMES VISHNUMALA. You children have received this knowledge. Rudramala is of those who become pure from impure. Rudrmala is of very big, is it not? IT IS MALA OF 550 CRORES. Even in Subtle Region, (mala is) present, is it not? Beads of mala should be made of points like these. When people prepare rudrmala, they give small face for the beads. Else the beads cannot be remembered, cannot be rotated. Hence they make beads. This is mala of rudraksh (beads). (In lowkik) it is made from beads of the tree rudraaaksh. They make of different varieties. ACTUALLY YOU KNOW THAT RUDRMALA ITSELF BECOMES MALA OF Vishnu. Rudrmala should be made small (because there is no body in it). The souls then become human beings (receive body). What is soul? What is Supreme Soul? What is his part? What size it is? These matters are in your intellect. How small the soul is. How much effort/part even Supreme Soul also does/playes in Bhaktimarg? From Copper Age till end of Iron Age or say, end of Confluence Age, his part runs. You know this.
No, it is said that the rudra mala is not worshipped,
Just see the Murli point posted there or here - see couples of posts earlier in this topic itself- on Sept 4th 2015.

SM 20-4-89(1):- Yah bhi bachche jaante hain Rudr_mala bhi hai jo gaayi aur pooji jati hai. Simiran ki jati hai. ...

Yes, in another Murli point Baba says- Rudrmala is not worshiped, as in Murli point No. 17).

Actually, I also have hesitation to believe whether RudrMala gets worshipped or not, because they have impure body. But, the above Murli point clearly says- Rudrmala gets worshiped. Now, devis (who are nothing but the last stage of braahmins) get worshiped, for example- Durga, etc. Devis are not deities.

So, baba may be saying this as being worshipped.

The RudraMala which represents the FIXED IMPURE SOULS (in IMPURE BODIES), STILL in process of making effort, is NOT WORSHIPPED.
-- (in CONTRAST to the UNFIXED/CHANGING & FLUCTUATING Mala of Brahma - which CANNOT be made or finalized, DURING the INTERVENING period) --
Whereas, the SAME RudraMala which represents ONLY the FIXED PURE SOULS in their FINAL 'BODILESS' STAGE, is WORSHIPPED.

As per my understanding, in lowkik temples, malas are worshiped. Also, people remember it. I do not know whether there are two separate malas in lowkik, one being called as Rudrmala, another Vishnumala. The mala that has flower is definitely Rudrmala (an extra bead which represents ShivBaba/Rudr). The mala that do not have the flower is Vishnumala.

More over- Beads of Mala are number-wise, whereas saligrams are not so. Faristas also have names(for example, that of Brahma, that of Mama, etc.) so their number is clearly visible/disclosed there. Any name (except ShivBaba whose name is permanent whether he is in the body or not, because neither the body belongs to him nor he gets influenced from it) openly discloses the name of the body to which it had connection. So, when faristas have name, they indirectly point to their impure body. So, in one context, Baba may be saying Rudrmala gets worshiped (just the souls or faristas, devies in it are worship worthy, means soul plus subtle body is worship worthy), and in other context, baba says, it is just simiran kee maalaa hai.

http://www.rudraksha-world.com/vaijayan ... 3-704.html - It is written there as -
Vaijanti Mala
Vaijanti Mala is made of White beads of Vaijanti is used for Vashikaran, Attraction and Devi Siddhi. Vaijanti seed comes from the forests where the god and goddess eternally make love. A mala of victory. Vaijanti is a shiny seed that grows in the forests of Braj. Lord Vishnu and Krishna love this mala. Vaijanti Mala is also known as Lord Vishnu's garland. It is very common belief among the people that bearer of Vaijanti mala never looses anything in life. It is widely used for Jap (prayer) of Lord Krishna, Vishnu and Rama.

As per ancient texts Krishna made a mala for Radha out of these seeds, as did Ram for Sita. Vishnu gave this mala to Skanda at his installation as commander-in-chief for increasing his strength. Vaijanti seed comes from the forests of Braj where the god and goddess eternally make love.

Purpose :
It gives victory through our dharma (truth).
It is used for Vashikaran, Attraction and Devi Siddhi.
It balances all doshas.

Design : Made in thread with knots between each bead and Sumeru bead with tassel.
Length : 26 inches
Beads : 108 +1
Now- the above website says- It is Vaijayanti/Vijay mala, mala of Vishnu. But, it says 108 + 1 beads. Now, in Vijayamala, it should be just 108 beads as ShivBaba is absent there. Baba clearly says- how can there be Rudr in Vijaymala. So, I believe the malas shown in Bhakti are not accurate. In both Rudramala or Vaijayanti mala, people show the flower.


A Rudraksh mala - http://www.amazon.in/Mukhi-Rudraksha-Ma ... B00GFR8D0Q

We can see the word sumeru(top most beads). Now, top most beads will have name (give an indication of) Brahma and Sawarsathi or L and N. But, no name for saligrams. That is why baba says- mala represents corporeal personalities (names are disclosed there, because it is numberwsie). Note the word sumeru, baba also says- MERU beads. So, even if body is not present in RudrMala, there is connection as the name of beads is mentioned there.

If you have more details about the Bhaktimarg rituals on malas- you may put.

Mostly, PBKs believe- beads of Rudrmala gets added into Vishnumala. Then VishnuMala should be bigger than Rudrmala, is it not? If you like, you may share your views.

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Re: COMMENTS on "SM & AV points for churning"

Post by sita » 07 Sep 2015

It is also said that the whole world, all souls, become Brahmins.

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Re: COMMENTS on "SM & AV points for churning"

Post by mbbhat » 08 Sep 2015

It is also said that the whole world, all souls, become Brahmins.
I have not heard so.

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Re: COMMENTS on "SM & AV points for churning"

Post by sita » 08 Sep 2015

Yes, it is said that all the souls will become children of Brahma, all souls will become Brahma Kumars and Kumaris. Certainly. It is also said that the rosary of Rudra consists of all the souls, of the whole world, all the souls are threaded on the rudra mala. It makes sense. God is one, there is only one shop. Giver of salvation to everyone is one. Where else could they go? When it is spoken about one worldly family, then all souls are brothers among themselves and there is one Father.

But here the rosay of Rudra is said to be small. Indeed, obviously not all souls from rudramala become part of visnhumala. Vishnumala is of couples. It is said that those souls become part of vishnumala, who make the effort of harmonising the sanskars.

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Re: COMMENTS on "SM & AV points for churning"

Post by sita » 11 Sep 2015

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2602&start=30#p50082

I don't think there are such unrighteous children who do not understand that first we have to consider ourselves as a soul and then remember the Father. At least this is the case with the BKs and PBKs, as far as I know. It does not seem to be a conception that is difficult to grasp.

With regards the method of remembrance, there has been so much discussion. I will just reproduce few Murli points without comment.

"Baba is sitting in his body. So surely one will be reminded of (his) body also. (Children think that) such soul present in such a body possesses such virtues." (7.4.84, pg.1)

"You know that (ShivBaba) is in the body of Brahma. So surely you will have to remember here. He’s not above (in the Soul World). He has come here at this Confluence Age. Father says I have come here to make you so great. You children will remember here. Father says I am in (this) body. Remember me in this body."(24-12-70 pg-3)

"Children ask, “How should we remember (Baba)? Many children get a doubt whether they should remember ShivBaba in Brahma’s body. Baba says that one should remember the soul. But the body also comes to the mind along with the soul. First body, then soul. Baba is sitting in this body. So the body will also come to the mind surely." (13-5-69 pg-1)

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Re: COMMENTS on "SM & AV points for churning"

Post by mbbhat » 12 Sep 2015

sita wrote:Yes, it is said that all the souls will become children of Brahma, all souls will become Brahma Kumars and Kumaris. Certainly.
Can you quote the Murli point? I have heard the Murli point- "You may tell others that even you are Brahmakumaris or Brahmakumaris (all are children of brahma), but you do not know it"

I have not heard any Murli point saying- all will become children of Brahma.

So- do you believe that, all the souls will become braahmins, and hence will come to heaven as well?
But here the rosay of Rudra is said to be small.
Baba says- Rudrmala is big and small. When he says big, it means it contains all the souls(5 or 7 billion). Baba has also said Rudrmala is small, because it does not include body. So, physically it takes lesser amount of space.

Baba has once said VishnuMala is much smaller than Rudrmala. The context is- the number of deities is lesser (just 9 lakhs to 2 crores by the end of Silver Age).
Vishnumala is of couples. It is said that those souls become part of vishnumala, who make the effort of harmonising the sanskars.
Both the malas are of couples. The first (Rudrmala) is of student/effort-making life (so physically they do not appear as couples, since they cannot identify their soul-mate until the very end), the second (Vishnumala) is of 'praapti' or perfection-in-life or achievement, where they really marry each other practically in Heaven.

No Murli point says- some extra beads will be added to Rudrmala to make it Vishnumala. If you have it, you may mention.

Or do you say Rudrmala is not of couples? And, how many beads would be added to Rudrmala to make it Vishnumala?

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