Mbbhat's Views and Churnings

To discuss the BK and PBK versions relating to the progressive differential development of BK & PBK ideologies or theologies.
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mbbhat
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Re: Mbbhat's Views and Churnings.

Post by mbbhat » 19 Sep 2012

# Post No. 68

Example No. 23 Way of teaching of Baba - sometimes highly challenging:-


1) SM 4-2-79(1):- Om Shanti. Baapdaadaa kaa vichaar huvaa hai bachchon se second may likhaakar leve ki kiski Yaad may baithay ho. Is likhney may koyi time nahin lagtaa hai. Harek second may likh_kar Baba ko dikhaakar jaave. {Sabhi ne likhaa aur Baapdaadaa ko dikhaayaa. Phir Baba ne bhi likhaa. Baba ne jo likhaa so koyi ne na likhaa. Baba ne likhaa Alph Bey. Dekho- Baba ne kitney may likhaa. Alph Bey- kitnaa sahaj hai. Alph maanaa Baba, Bey maanaa baadashaahi. Baba padhaate hain aur tum raajaayi praapt karte ho aur kuch jaasti likhney ki darkaar nahin. Tumney toh likhney may ek do minute bhi lagaaye. Alph Bey- second ki bath hai. SANYAASI LOG SIRF ALPH KO Yaad KARENGE. Tumko toh raajaayi bhi Yaad hai. Jo aadath pad jaati hai, buddhi may baithaa huvaa hai, toh khushi kaa paaraa bhi chadhaa rahtaa hai. Alph kaa arth kitnaa badaa hai. Highest choti- us_ay oopar ayur koyi cheez hai hi nahin. Oonch te oonch rahney kaa sthaan hai. Yah koyi manushy thode hi jaante hain. Second may jivanmuki kaa arth koyi toh hogaa na. Bachchaa paidaa hotaa hai toh sab likhte hain itney ghantey, itney minute, itney second. Tik2 chalti hai na. TIK HUYI- ALPH BEY. Bas, second bhi nahin lagtaa. Kahne ki bhi darkaar nahin. Yaad toh hai hi na. Tum bachchon ki itni avasthaa achchi honi chaahiye. Parantu vah tab hogi jab Yaad karte rahenge. Yahaan baith_thay ho toh baap aur raajaayi hi Yaad rahni chaahiye. BUDDHI DEKHTI HAI JISKO DIVVY DRUSHI KAHAA JAATAA HAI. Atma dekhti hai. -2-


= .... Saints remember just alaf (Father). (But) You have remembrance of even Bey (Kingdom).........

Baba usually says- Saints remember brahm tatw means IW (Incorporeal World).

Do saints remember Alaf? [Usually, Baba says- Alaf = Father].

this doubt was there for me. The doubt got cleared only after getting the following Murli point. And the following Murli point reveals another secret.

2) SM 10-1-81(2):- Vah to paani ki nadi hai jis par naam Brahmputra rakha hai. Unhoney to Brahm Ishwar ko kaha huva hai. Isliye Brahmputra ko bahut pavan samajhte hain. Badi nadi hai to pavitr bhi vah hogi. Patitpavan vaastav may ganga ko nahin, Brahmaputra ko kaha jaaye. Melaa

= That is river of water whose name is kept as Brahmaputra. They have considered Brahm tatw (IW) as Ishwar. Hence they believe the river Brahmaputra as highly pure. ...

So- Baba had spoken the words- "They remember alaf" in Murli point 1) in the words of saints and not of his own.

And the second Murli point relates the river Brahmaputra as child of God of saints (= IW)
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So- unless we are able to tune our mind to Baba, we will not be able to understand gyaan dance of ShivBaba.

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Re: Mbbhat's Views and Churnings.

Post by mbbhat » 13 Oct 2012

Post No. 69 :- The word Prajapati (Brahma) as creator in lowkik Gita:-

Sahayajnaaha prajaaha srushtwaa purovaacha prajapathihi
anEna prasaviShya….. –(3-10)

= In the past, Prajapati created citizens and Yagya….
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Interestingly, we can see in this link-

http://www.bhagavad-Gita.org/Gita/verse-03-10.html

Even though in the sloka , word Prajapati is mentioned, the translator has put the word as Brahma there.

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Re: Mbbhat's Views and Churnings.

Post by fluffy bunny » 14 Oct 2012

mbbhat wrote:Even though in the sloka , word Prajapati is mentioned, the translator has put the word as Brahma there.
What is more interesting from a BK point of view is that Prajapati, the “Lord of Creatures”, lusted after his daughter and so took on a different form to co-join with her.
  • This appears to be a memorial of the Sangum Yugya and the relationship between Lekhraj Kirpalani and Om Radhe.
In the scriptures, this relationship angered the gods and so they "created" Shiva (Rudra) to punish him for this incest.
  • You could see this as relating to the period when Lekhraj Kirpalani was seen as God and Om Radhe her partner and then the later entrance of Shiva into the Brahma Kumaris around 1950.
With the Prajapati story, we also have confusion between the cosmic Brahma and stories of Prajapati Brahma, a king that ruled an area of Tibet in 7300 BC (more than 9,000 years ago) and who was also known as Padamja Brahma. However, I suppose we have to ignore that as the BK don't believe in any history before 5,000 years ago.

Prajapati the god was one of the creator figures of the early Vedic period of ancient India but in the post-Vedic age he came to be identified with a different major Hindu god called Brahma, who gradually surpassed him in importance. It's a very recent translation of the Gita and so the translator adheres to what had become the norm at this point.

Bear in mind few Hindus actually study their scriptures and even fewer the history of their creation. The old myths and legends are such a mess. One version contradicts another, they change over time, gods are amalgamated and discarded, and so you cannot just take one line and say, "bingo!" it proves BK Gyan.

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Re: Mbbhat's Views and Churnings.

Post by arjun » 14 Oct 2012

“बाप कहते हैं मुझे रथ तो जरूर चाहिए। मैं साजन बड़ा हूँ तो सजनी भी बड़ी चाहिए। सरस्वती है ब्रह्मा मुख वंशावली। वह कोई ब्रह्मा की युगल नहीं है, ब्रह्मा की बेटी है। उनको फिर जगत अम्बा क्यों कहते हैं? क्योंकि यह मेल है ना, तो माताओं की सम्भाल के लिए उनको रखा है। ब्रह्मा मुख वंशावली सरस्वती तो ब्रह्मा की बेटी हो गई। मम्मा तो जवान है, ब्रह्मा तो बूढ़ा है। सरस्वती जवान, ब्रह्मा की स्त्री शोभती भी नहीं। हाफ पार्टनर कहला न सके।“(ब्रह्माकुमारियों द्वारा प्रकाशित रिवाइज़्ड साकार मुरली दिनांक ११.१०.०८, पृ.३)

“The Father says – I certainly require a Chariot. When, I, the husband, am big, then my wife should also be big. Saraswati is Brahma’s mouthborn progeny. She is not Brahma’s wife, she is Brahma’s daughter. Then why is she called Jagat Amba (World Mother)? It is because this one is a male, isn’t he? So, she has been kept to take care of the mothers. Brahma’s mouthborn progeny Saraswati is Brahma’s daughter. Mama is young, Brahma is old. Young Saraswati does not fit as Brahma’s wife. She cannot be called a half partner.”(Revised Sakar Murli dated 11.10.08, pg 3 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

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Re: Mbbhat's Views and Churnings.

Post by mbbhat » 14 Oct 2012

Like in Bhaktimarg, the name sudarshan chakr is famous. But baba corrected it as swadarshan chakr.

Similarly, the name Prajapati Brahma would have got later changed/corrected as Prajapita Brahma.
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Re: Mbbhat's Views and Churnings.

Post by fluffy bunny » 14 Oct 2012

He did not "correct it", Lekhraj Kirpalani just borrowed an already existing idea with religious value in society and then modified it sufficiently to appear like a novel idea on which to base his own religion/business.

Kind of like in the same manner as the Chinese rip off other brand names.

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Re: Mbbhat's Views and Churnings.

Post by mbbhat » 17 Oct 2012

Fine. That may be churning of FB soul.

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Re: Mbbhat's Views and Churnings.

Post by fluffy bunny » 17 Oct 2012

To the best of my knowledge, there has never been an explanation given for the change from Prajapati Brahma to Prajapita Brahma ... partly, I think, because the 'Prajapati God Brahma' period was hidden from BK adherents until brahmakumaris.info broadcasted it very recently.

What is the explanation they give for changing Prajapati to Prajapita now ... A spelling error? A lack of education in Hindu scriptural references? Good marketing for when they re-invented themselves around 1950?

"Corrected" is not an answer.

And have the BKs told the story of how and when Shiva was revealed as God instead of Lekhraj Kirpalani around that time?

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Re: Mbbhat's Views and Churnings.

Post by mbbhat » 18 Oct 2012

I do not see any surprise if BKWSU does not give explanation (there is no need, since it is out of date- obsolete) or if it cannot (since only 8 or 108 are going to fully pass).

"Corrected is not answer"- this may be for souls like FB souls, but it is fully applicable and agreeable to many others. And in Hindu philosophy, there are lot many errors. For example- there are different stories which are totally different to explain an incident. In one scripture, it will be said something, in another scripture, it will be said totally different. Correction is highly necessary there, since lot many things are not known in hinduism.

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Re: Mbbhat's Views and Churnings.

Post by fluffy bunny » 18 Oct 2012

The mistake is in the use of language.

"Correction" means it is correct or right rather than just 'their' or 'another' interpretation. I cannot say about the Hindi BKWSU but the English speaking BKWSU has a bad habit of twisting or warping the meaning of words that English speakers ... when they finally understand what they are really saying ... are insulted/disappointed/offended by.

I suppose for Hindi speakers using English such subtleties are not so obvious. Users of a second language are not so aware of its meaning and, I guess, more carefree about changing and adopting its meaning.

Unfortunately, much of this twisting is meant to deceive and mislead outsiders rather than aid and inform which is what I don't like. The example which immediately comes to mind is how they use "Transformation" now instead of "Destruction". Within the English speaking BKWSU there is a lot of control of followers' opinions, or even activity, by the use of such warped language and deception of outsiders emanating largely from Jayanti Kirpalani who, when Janki Kripalani dies, is very likely to take over her position.

In a way, you have adopted a reasonable and successful strategy to remain within the BK world. That is to say, your forgiveness of other BKs' errors or indulgences on the ground that they are not going to attain a high pass. I can see how that works.

Excuse the directness of my observations. I like simplicity, straight forwardness and honesty.

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Re: Mbbhat's Views and Churnings.

Post by mbbhat » 18 Oct 2012

Fine.

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Re: Mbbhat's Views and Churnings.

Post by fluffy bunny » 18 Oct 2012

mbbhat wrote:Fine.
Fine is really just dismissive. It could even be patronising. Either my statement is fair or not.

Those are BK opinions or interpretations, or even manipulations ... but not "corrections" until we can know or prove them to be correct and we cannot. Therefore, they are just another belief or theory and a matter of faith not a fact.

Let's be honest, the BKs want to usurp a position of leadership within religious and political Hinduism and they are doing so by stealth loosely using the terms, language and concepts of Hinduism, a religion for which they do not just care nothing but actively look down upon.

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Re: Mbbhat's Views and Churnings.

Post by sita » 18 Oct 2012

Fine is really just dismissive.
Of course it will be dismissing, because you are attacking him as if he is responsible for whatever is happening in the BK.

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Re: Mbbhat's Views and Churnings.

Post by fluffy bunny » 18 Oct 2012

sita wrote:Of course it will be dismissing, because you are attacking him as if he is responsible for whatever is happening in the BK.
No, only to 'correct' his attitude.

Of course, I don't hold him responsible for all the evils of the BKWSU.

It does not matter whether we are BK, PBK, or not ... we should still operates on the same basic rules of logic, reason and respect. Humility is humility whether it comes from a BK or a non-BK, and the opposite is true too.

However, Baba says we have a right to expect a higher standard from a BK and for them to be an example.

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Re: Mbbhat's Views and Churnings.

Post by mbbhat » 19 Oct 2012

However, Baba says we have a right to expect a higher standard from a BK and for them to be an example.
In fact, I have never heard Baba had given right to expect (that too for ex BKs?).

Of course, the examples will be just 8 or 108 , and that too in the end.
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Fine. You may keep on expecting (in addition to criticizing).

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