Take out the Junk

for ex-Brahma Kumaris, to discuss matters related to their experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
john morgan
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Take out the Junk

Post by john morgan » 02 Sep 2008

Putting aside all the rubbish, one can consider if this meditation works. Can thoughts around God, and Godly knowledge, scotch bad karma, and improve good karma, and is this the only way?

I see karma as a pendulum, push it and it swings. Push it well and more harmony results, push it badly and ugh!

BKs would of course say that attention to karma is Baba's teaching. Whilst the meeting with a stranger from the strange land (if Baba exists and good karma is earned by taking people to meet him) exists in BKdom, other systems of thought and meditation also direct one's attention to karma. The BKs are excellent at making sweet milk taste somewhat rank for some. Ex-students can be challenged by the necessity of major forgiveness, even of God.

Standing alone without all the junk of interaction, with well meaning people who consider themselves of superior ilk, does this knowledge really improve ones life? Ex-students who decide to study other knowledge can have their efforts hampered by BK conditioning. The BK are well aware of this. Unfortunately they do little to assist the person leaving, as those leaving are considered lost. So we have superior beings that wish us to obey but if we do not want to play that game, we are not worth helping. Such are the vagaries of childhood.

The junk of interaction with BKs is nothing to do with knowledge. Often, in temples, statues are found sitting in their own niche, alone and meditative. Perhaps there is something good about taking one's time and making everything clear, and instead of constantly spinning the cycle to bring it to a complete and utter halt.

In that space, it may be possible to consider if the knowledge works for us and pick and choose our thoughts - and create new ones the world has never heard or felt before.

The BK have all the answers - in theory; though each person works out their karma alone. Whilst the insurance of hob-nobbing with God's Greats for 10% of income may appeal to some; for others, serving humanity is their main concern.

For me, the bottom line is, will this knowledge bring out the best in me or will something else do a better job? Some leave but cannot leave the study so instead of love Baba the game becomes knock the BK. Perhaps the BK deserves it or perhaps they are misunderstood as the pain they dish out is for people's long term good. Say they do deserve it. Then I have to ask myself if I wish to play "knock the BK" or turn to something far more constructive like the something else that will do a better job for me at this time.

Years ago there was a 'ban the bomb' campaign and friends joined it. I never did, though I wore the badge and thought it a good cause. Similarly, I write fairly lightly of my BK interaction as I have never wished to live a life of opposition, choosing not to have my attention arrested by the activity of others. Far better to put my attention where I decide and best in a most constructive place where there is no junk. Of course I did not always and don't always do this, at least I am aware of this possibility. A spiritual life is never a half-hearted life.

In reading the biographies of yogis (Milarepa for example), I notice that some endured terrible hardship that was later understood to be necessary in order for them to progress. Just this thought can give one heart. I am grateful for my interactions with the BK, they have helped me open vistas as they have demonstrated much of what I want and some of what I do not want in my life. For some, the BK are fair weather friends - not much use in inclement weather, that is my experience so far. Shame, they seemed so full of promise many years ago :D

Having considered if we can use the knowledge at this time, we can chart the course we choose. Sometimes Dadi Junky is later perceived as Dadi Janki but the real arena is self knowledge.

A brand new start, none of the junk - just ... the bare minimum.

That's all folks!

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fluffy bunny
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Re: Take out the Junk

Post by fluffy bunny » 02 Sep 2008

Good post, one that I go along with mostly and which picks up from the current discussion around "karma". One small observation;

I note how limited we to discussion our experience in any other language but the words and metaphors of the BKs themselves, some taken directly from the teachings, e.g. "leave the study"; others taken from the verbal folk culture of the Brahma Kumaris community, e.g. "knock the BK" ...(aka "if it is not conformist and courtly ass kissing then it must defamation"). I am still uncomfortable that the god of the BKs may be a surplant or transplant upon the real and absolute God. A facsimile of God and the yogic path used to deceive, divert and ultimately test the individual's discrimination power. Heretic yogis and philosophers this way please --->

Yes, like the showmen of old fairgrounds ... Roll up, roll up spin the wheel of fortune and gamble on the results with your soul ... "you pays your money and you takes your choice".
wheel_of_fortune.jpg
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john morgan
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Re: Take out the Junk

Post by john morgan » 02 Sep 2008

Hi ex-I,

You are right ... for the first time? :D.

One never "leaves the study" (BK origin), who we are and what we can do is the study. I recall DJ stating "Siva Baba is stupid but Brahma Baba is no fool." Dare I say it - the words of a spiritual businesswoman - ugh!

I think "knock the BK" was coined by me, am willing to stand corrected as many posted or talked about these topics in many different terms before this forum rescued me from my negative BK isolation.

I recall leaving the BK and being very angry with God for the first time in my life. The main solution for me is to disassociate the BK from God. The ocean of mercy - seems a joke when you look at much BK activity. The good news is that we can express mercy in our own lives. That we can ask any question here and get a reply without all the BK attitudes, lawyers, unanswered communications etc is a mercy. If these women take over the world many may experience the mother of all hells. There is a very good side to the BK but there's also a dark side - Institutionalisation does not foster real perspective. The BK brand of spiritual Tescos still makes me shudder as does their love of money.

Probably you know the story of the blacksmith who charged a farthing for the first nail in a horseshoe then doubled the charge for each futher nail , he became rich very quickly. Now if you think of BB's work and try doubling the number of BK's each year (each BK recruits one member) there is a considerable shortfall. Working from 1939 to 2004 (build in a rest for a few years) there would now be 36,893,488,147,419,100,000.00 BK. As I understand it there are a million or so BK. Say there are two million BK, its still a drop in the ocean compared to how it could have been if had BK not estranged so many who loved the knowledge. Admittedly changing sanskaras is a long job in some instances but I wonder why the shortfall in numbers - distracted by too many sleepy afternoons or much too interested in money :-?

Are the BK spiritual? - of course they are, they are marvellous people with a great message - why oh why do they so often have such a negative effect? Forgive me if I speak my truth, these words are not some form of revenge or hatred, the fact is that the BK say that God is teaching only at BK centres, why then is He (The Supreme Soul) unable to help so many? One reason may be that too many BK are more interested in their own egos and giving visions than truly serving humanity. I expect no one to believe what it written here, weigh and consider and you decide. All criticisms are welcome.

So ex-I, on the one hand I can see why it can seem most doubtful that God and the BK are truly close mates - BK Agendas. Having said that the knowledge is unbelievably good and at various times has served me very very well. I suspect that the main reason that Murlis are not freely distributed is economic. Bums on seats (or carpets) pays!

Before Yogananda died he went to the coroners office and made the necessary preparations, the foreknowledge of his death was in contrast to Brahma Babas. I cannot say whether knowing the date time and place of ones demise is indicative of high attainment though the practical nature of this insight was very useful. Just imagine, no expensive hearse to the mortuary, time to tidy up the paperwork, wash the dishes, finish the ironing, say goodbye to friends and make peace with others. He saw little point in returning to India, one country is as good as another for disposing a corpse. I had a premonition of my own death but it was not as accurate as Yoganandas - I am still here :D.

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mr green
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Re: Take out the Junk

Post by mr green » 02 Sep 2008

Hey, a post worth replying to instead of all this kindergarten Gyan,

Thanks John, I feel it is true. It is so hard to leave, from the heart ... but I don't know if this is a healing process or not. I have been told many times to forgive for my own good, I found this really hard....even thinking about forgiving them made me angry, it was the helplessness of feeling a victim, the ego doesn't easily allow you to accept such realities.

I have tried hard to not be emotionally involved with the BKs anymore, and find what is right for me, but I still find everything feels sullied for me in the spiritual world, it seems dirty and secondhand.

I was lucky in so much as when I was bk I never accepted some of their concepts, like talking to god or their version of karmic theory, I have my own karmic belief which I feel comfortable with

thanks for the healthy thoughts

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Re: Take out the Junk

Post by bansy » 02 Sep 2008

john morgan wrote:A brand new start, none of the junk - just ... the bare minimum.
I agree, the Yagya used to have just the Murlis and that was all that was needed. Nowadays, there are courses on this and that, seminars, book, CDs, DVDs, youtube videos, Living Values, SML, Dadi classes, Senior classes, more Dadi classes, more courses, more notes on Dadi classes, this and more of that, BKs giving their own courses and lectures, BKs sending things onto mobile phones ... etc etc.

But all it takes is just a Murli.

So much less hassle and some much more time saved. And money.

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fluffy bunny
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Re: Take out the Junk

Post by fluffy bunny » 03 Sep 2008

bansy wrote:I agree, the Yagya used to have just the Murlis and that was all that was needed.
And, of course, all the "business" ...

I think the great shame is that instead of all diffusion range of service 'products', that some effort was not put into serious spiritual/religious study and education, i.e. that it became more about real education rather tha. I don't want to put down some of the, say, higher end Values Educations stuff because it mostly stands on it on good. But it is not "Gyan" nor the path to becoming karmateet or spiritual liberation.

But even in such a case, who was using who? Was the BKWSU picking up and using a follower's idea as it was "profitable" for the organization and gave it a credibility that it could use to get to people and places it otherwise would not. Or a follower using the pre-existing religious network to spread their "business", like the OLA did? I mean, they are not claiming "Baba did it" through the sister, are they?

Let us be honest, where did all the additional gunk come from?

In my opinion, it started in the West and started from service devices introduced by Westerners who had to 'pad out' the knowledge in order to make it more digestible to non-Indians and less embarrassing to teach. It also allowed talented BKs the only place in their otherwise controlled and constraint lives to shine and be creative.

Has it not gone from 90% "Knowledge" and 10% padding to 90% padding and 10% "Knowledge"?

I am not saying here ... a more contemporary view please.

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Re: Take out the Junk

Post by arjun » 03 Sep 2008

ex-l wrote:In my opinion, it started in the West and started from service devices introduced by Westerners who had to 'pad out' The Knowledge in order to make it more digestible to non-Indians and less embarrassing to teach. It also allowed talented BKs the only place in their otherwise controlled and constraint lives to shine and be creative.
I agree. And I got a proof of the same recently when I attended a stress management programme organized by the local BK center in a posh locality. It was addressed by a very senior BK sister. I heard the lecture for about an hour and did not find her uttering the name of Shiv or ShivBaba even once. Instead I could hear the word 'I' being repeated often. And she did not forget quoting Dadi Janaki.

After the lecture, her assistant teacher took the audience on a guided journey of meditation with some western (it was not the one that I used to listen during the BK days) music in the background. Even the wordings of the guided meditation has completely changed. I was surprised to observe the sister asking the audience to concentrate on their breathing.

Most of the audience (about 100) consisted of rich senior citizens. After the programme, the Senior Sister sat on her chair at the edge of the dias while these senior citizens lined up below the dias to receive a box of sweets and BK literature from her. There was also arrangement for a cup of tea. I could see some of them touching her feet and the sister accepted their gestures with a smile (while she should have objected to their gestures as per Shrimat).

During her lecture the sister mentioned that the service of stress management in BKWSU began with the Chairman of Nagarjuna Fertilizers Late Shri KVK Raju of Hyderabad (South India) becoming a BK. Members might remember I had written in detail about this in the BK Section along with a scanned copy from a magazine containing reference about KVK Raju's son and his involvement with BKs.

During her lecture while speaking about how to overcome small tensions the sister gave the example of a BK center. She said that once a small complaint from a BK center reached the headquarters at Mount Abu. A Senior Sister was sent from Abu to investigate. The complaint was that the surrendered teachers were getting their clothes washed by a BK brother while as per norms they were supposed to do that themselves.

The investigating teacher asked the sisters as well as the brother about the charge and both accepted their charges. The BK brother said that since he was a washerman, he did not find it wrong to wash the clothes of BK sisters. The matter was closed then and there because it was such a trivial matter. She did not say whether the brother continued to wash the clothes of those sisters even after the investigation.

With such perfect arrangements it was but natural that everyone liked the presentation and some of them promised to visit the local retreat center.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: Take out the Junk

Post by mbbhat » 03 Sep 2008

arjun wrote:I attended a stress management programme organized by the local BK center in a posh locality. It was addressed by a very senior BK Sister. I heard the lecture for about an hour and did not find her uttering the name of Shiv or ShivBaba even once. Instead I could hear the word 'I' being repeated often. And she did not forget quoting Dadi Janaki.
I agree with the above. In fact, many BKs still put garlands to Dadis even now. I really wonder why Dadis do not stop this even though they have the authority. Also how foolish such BKs are. I have said about this to some Bk sister incharges and some students. But all is in drama. Hence I did not protest against anybody. I thought that it is a paper to me to check my power to adjust. What one sows, he reaps.

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arjun
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Re: Take out the Junk

Post by arjun » 03 Sep 2008

mbbhat wrote:I agree with the above.
At last!!! At least there is something to agree :D.

john morgan
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Re: Take out the Junk

Post by john morgan » 04 Sep 2008

It seems that when one is reacting to the past future one is sowing karmic seeds for future harvest. So if someone affects me negatively, it is very much in my interest to eliminate, ignore, scotch, forget or forgive, in fact, do anything to ensure that I do not sow thoughts or actions with their hemlock in them. It is not to say that one should be stupid; one bitten, twice shy. Twice bitten, be very careful. Three times bitten - best to leave the BK :|.

I'd like to hear others views on this as I am not as fortunate as Mr Green who has peers with which he can discuss such matters. Yet on the other hand lack is sometimes luck :D.

The ability to pick and chooose the influences in one's thoughts and actions seems to be something well worth working on. Whilst I am fairly certain that, at its heart, the Yagya is as energetic and vibrant as ever, its very easy to get another entirely different picture. I don't bother about it too much. It is what is happening in one's own life that merits the most attention.

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mr green
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Re: Take out the Junk

Post by mr green » 05 Sep 2008

john morgan wrote:I'd like to hear others views on this as I am not as fortunate as Mr Green who has peers with which he can discuss such matters. Yet on the other hand lack is sometimes luck :D.
Who are these peers? Please tell me more :D.

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Re: Take out the Junk

Post by john morgan » 05 Sep 2008

mr green wrote: I have been told many times to forgive for my own good, I found this really hard
Well Mr Green,

Could it be that your peers advised this?

Kindest regards,

ps I can sympathise with your experience ... odd that different people at different times experience similar junk thanks to the BK.

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mr green
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Re: Take out the Junk

Post by mr green » 06 Sep 2008

Oh, I understand now. I was referring to members of this site and my family I suppose. Thanks, I got the wrong end of the stick.

Yes, I did have a rather ******* time there.

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Re: Take out the Junk

Post by john morgan » 06 Sep 2008

Yes, Mr Green, I had a ******* time too. I was so damaged that spiritual surgeons visited me at night and did a fantastic repair job. I thought the BK were spiritual surgeons, they portray themselves as such, but these beings were in another class. Probably the BK know nothing about them.

It would be very interesting to have statistics of BK mess ups, just to see how many others have experienced something similar. Probably the BK have them. Disclosing them would not be tantamount to shooting themselves in the foot - it would be honest.

I found that taking full responsibility mitigated greatly the effect of the BK, the advantage of this is that one does not create thoughts of blame - a karmic inaccuracy.

Did and does your understanding of karma help you to resolve your issues?

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Re: Take out the Junk

Post by mr green » 06 Sep 2008

At the time of the most healing or pain(now it has subsided and been partially fixed) I couldn't use karmic ideals as I wasn't fit enough to formulate the understanding I have now.....but yes it does now help me now, in a pleasing selfish way I know it is good to be loving, but I am learning more and more the importance of the sword of truth within love.....to enable me not to be abused again whilst remaining kind.

The problem or issue I had, involved them taking responsibility and taking action to address the situation, so I had the quandry of blaming them and trying to forgive.....and eventually they did(albeit in a sneeky and dishonest way) take the action they origionally promised

Recently and only recently I am feeling able to look back without pain, some members of this site could easily testify to what a mess I was in

who were your spiritual surgeons?

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