University Status

for ex-Brahma Kumaris, to discuss matters related to their experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

University Status

Post by fluffy bunny » 06 Aug 2007

Not sure where this belongs. I was having a look on the UK Department of Education websites and discovered this;
Department for Education and Skills in September 2004 wrote:Applications for the grant of taught degree-awarding powers, research degree-awarding powers and university title.

Guidance for applicant organisations in England and Wales (August 2004)


This paper sets out the procedures for making applications for the grant of degree-awarding powers and/or university title in England and Wales. These notes of guidance and accompanying criteria have been approved by the Department for Education and Skills and the Wales Office, in consultation with the Quality Assurance Agency for Higher Education ... It also sets out criteria for the granting of university title (Section 3),

Section 3: Criteria for the award of university title.

An organisation wishing to apply for approval to use the title "University" must:

• have been granted powers to award taught degrees;
• normally have at least 4,000 full time equivalent higher education students, of whom at least 3,000 are registered on degree level courses (including foundation degree programmes); and,
• be able to demonstrate that it has regard to the principles of good governance as are relevant to its sector
The complete document is here from this website. The site also mentions raising the issue with the local Trading Standards Department for investigation but that is mainly for selling bogus degrees.

I am surprised the BKs did not make more effort into "going official" in this area.

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Post by fluffy bunny » 07 Aug 2007

May be I can go to my local Trading Standards Department and complain that doing Raja Yoga did not turn me into a Golden Aged deity and the End of the World did not come as they predicted.

User avatar
mr green
ex-BK
Posts: 1100
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Post by mr green » 07 Aug 2007

Maybe the authorities should have it bought to their attention that the BKWSU(?) is not meeting any of these requirements? ... I mean Sat Yug is the Land of Truth so, of course, honesty can only be the best policy ... or am I naive.

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Post by fluffy bunny » 07 Aug 2007

mr green wrote:I mean Sat Yug is the Land of Truth so, of course, honesty can only be the best policy ... or am I naive.
I can imagine them response ... "It depends on what you mean by 'truth'".

This is an issue that is I have been thinking a lot about ... how can a world of truth be built through such subterfuge and lies? I think it works for the Indian mind (I do not mean to be racist here and criticise myself for using such a broad brush) because their Gods and mythology are so full of tricksters and their pluralism. "Truth" is merely a stand alone concept of its own, wholly flexible and any mean necessary is acceptible.

IMHO, there is definitely the flavor that they are above lokik world and perhaps the "skills" that come about from being immigrants to foreign or alien nation.

User avatar
john
Reforming BK
Posts: 1606
Joined: 03 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: UK

Post by john » 07 Aug 2007

ex-l wrote:"Truth" is merely a stand alone concept of its own, wholly flexible and any mean necessary is acceptible.
Be interesting to find out the Indian definition of 'truth'. The Western/English version as I understand it is very rigid, 'it is true or it is not true', simple.

User avatar
uddhava
ex-BK
Posts: 112
Joined: 13 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Re: University Status

Post by uddhava » 06 Aug 2008

The Bk's are not the only Indian spiritual group with dubious claims to university status - there is also the 'Oneness University' ('Awakening into Oneness' DVD available now) as visited recently by Desi celebrity Shilpa Shetty ('Shilpa's Yoga' DVD available now).

User avatar
paulkershaw
ex-BK
Posts: 684
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BKWSU
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am an ex-teacher and member of the BKWSU and my interest lies in assisting those who request support on any level I can.
Location: South Africa

Re: University Status

Post by paulkershaw » 07 Aug 2008

Be interesting to find out the Indian definition of 'truth'. The Western/English version as I understand it is very rigid, 'it is true or it is not true', simple.
I'd say that truth is in the eyes of the one who uses logic, and that human logic is very different in the West and the East and the ...

User avatar
pilatus
non-BK
Posts: 112
Joined: 26 May 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Re: University Status

Post by pilatus » 07 Aug 2008

Hello paul/uddhava, may be veering off (old) topic but found this one from last year on What is the truth?

Best regards

User avatar
alladin
Friends and family of
Posts: 718
Joined: 27 Feb 2007

Re: University Status

Post by alladin » 07 Aug 2008

Well, the word "University" sounded good, so they choose it. Marketing ...

It is totally misleading, though. In fact, it means nothing. You could say that it's not a seriously harmful thing but, from an ethical point of view, it's not a good start. They say they teach and sell truth, but even their definition contains a lie.

I am surprised that being present in many countries, including some where the law is strict and particular about definitions, trademarks, diplomas, authorizations to operate in a profession, calling oneself "expert" and people get fined, sued and even jailed every day for not complying with rules, the BKWSU hasn't gotten in trouble, as far as I know, until now!

One day, when according to Karma, they will have to pay the bill, it will be a huge one! :oops:

User avatar
mr green
ex-BK
Posts: 1100
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Re: University Status

Post by mr green » 08 Aug 2008

Hi Alladin,

I feel it is harmful because it is another way of sucking in unsuspecting people to be indoctrinated. I was distinctly told, "this is not a religion, it is a university". I heard this line peddled many times ... it is plain wrong, deception ... it is not a university it is a religion.

User avatar
tom
ex-BK
Posts: 139
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Mahatma Gandhi said first :"God is Truth", ultimately he said "Truth is God"
which made me a member of this forum.

Re: University Status

Post by tom » 08 Aug 2008

mr green wrote: I was distinctly told, "this is not a religion, it is a university". I heard this line peddled many times ... it is plain wrong, deception ... it is not a university it is a religion.
Yes, I will not forgive them that they deceived us in every aspect. They told us repeatedly "this is not a religion, it is a university" and they let us repeat the same lie to the public and to all new comers.

Of course we were not stupid. We knew that this is not a knowledge but a religion with all rituals and worship etc. But we felt we had to lie and stay incognito for the sake of the organization until the day Baba would be revealed in the West.

Now i am observing that all the lies of the leadership is revealed in the West through these forums.

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Re: University Status

Post by fluffy bunny » 08 Aug 2008

tom wrote:They told us repeatedly "this is not a religion, it is a university" and they let us repeat the same lie to the public and to all new comers.
Then they say "this is not a religion" but they register a non-profit organization stating it is a "religious institution organized exclusively for religious activities" which "will operate primarily to regularly conduct religious services ... to train, ordain and maintain a corps of clergy" and "to conduct missionary activities”.

But it is not a religion.

User avatar
alladin
Friends and family of
Posts: 718
Joined: 27 Feb 2007

smart as the devil

Post by alladin » 08 Aug 2008

Clever, these guys, is not it? ;) Can learn a lot from them: how to be scruple-less liars and become successful in Kaliyug.

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Re: University Status

Post by fluffy bunny » 09 Aug 2008

"Liars" is a difficult word. Its also a very hard word. Its a bit like using the cult word or "Nazi". Its also too broad to say "they" or "them".

So who do you mean? We need to be specific to verifiable names and events. Most BKs are just ordinary, well-meaning people ... if perhaps deluded. But by what or whom? Who are the thought creators, the opinion formers, those that give the language and form to the expression that others follow on and repeat.

Most folks are not creators, they are just followers. They take the 'tokens' that they are given and pass them on. Trade them for what they are worth. I am not entirely sure they can be blamed. They only need to be given correct knowledge, correct language.

Of those BK thought creators or language formers that I know about, they consider that "the end justifies the means".

The danger is that cornered by such an accusation, the accused as nowhere else to run and is likely to come back with a personally directed attacked on the accuser to discredit them. But, yes, institutional dishonesty is rife towards non-adherents and, as it has been been previously unchecked and lacked any independent critique, it has spread rampantly. And much of the responsibility goes right to the very top.

The problem for them is, how can they be followers of Lekhraj Kirpalani, or Bap-Dada, and not follow him? Surely to do so is also to admit that they and their vision are not supreme or absolutely perfect? This, to me, is the other complexity in the equation. It was their god that told them to call themselves a University as no one would be upset about it. (I would appreciate the specific Murli quote on that, I remember it but not where).

Its all a big mess and it is time for 'the them' to sort it out.

User avatar
tom
ex-BK
Posts: 139
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Mahatma Gandhi said first :"God is Truth", ultimately he said "Truth is God"
which made me a member of this forum.

Re: University Status

Post by tom » 09 Aug 2008

ex-l wrote:(I would appreciate the specific Murli quote on that, I remember it but not where).
Yes, in several Murlis repeatedly "This is an university cum hospital."

We understood and interpreted this sentence as 'Here you get the highest knowledge and get healed'.

Maybe somebody remembers in which Sakar Murli it was spoken.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests