ex-l's recent postings damaging how the forum is perceived?

for ex-Brahma Kumaris, to discuss matters related to their experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
ermine
BK supporter
Posts: 39
Joined: 04 Apr 2008
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Despite of I am not regular followers I would like to express my entire support BKWSU and equally criticize them.

Re: Hello from daughter of BK

Post by ermine » 06 Jun 2008

Om Shanti dear sister and others, Good morning or evening.

Thank you very much for your comments, I entirely appreciate them. In your language, if you're a BK, an ex-BK, a PBK or an ex-anything. I have never been ex, or present, or anywhere else. I am in a circle which is constantly a part of eternity. I have always been there, it does matter how you have interpret it but I respect your opinion because it is part of the circle also. At the moment I can see a few souls in BK and somewhere who do not recognize the world around and gradually go down thinking that they are following Shrimat and ... eventually they will lose their plot and jump in this forum, confusing themselves and others or find our common ground.
ex-l wrote:I am trying to find our common ground. At present, I have the impression that you actually do not have much direct knowledge or experience of them.
paulkershaw wrote:Why will you not answer ex-l's posed question honestly and openly?
Again and again, you have tried to find some evidences, facts and common grounds which do not exist in your worlds and expression (apology, for me it does not exist). Backed up by others experiences, newspaper articles and other provable systems.

In my point of view, you have been trying to criticize spiritual things using a butcher's remedy and discretions - maybe USA Constitution, Francis Bacon or Karl Marx will be appropriate for you. Where is your soul, spiritual balance - it is what you got after long time in the BK. As I've already mentioned, the development of our spiritual ego within spiritual experience by illusive attachments.

I came to BK inspired by thoughts of the day and, for god sake, still happy about it (believe it is quite long time and still keep my commitments but my job is very different and distinctive from other professionals. I have been traveling to some 57 countries over 7 years and have seen to much). My approach is to not pay attention to materialistic matters when I am in there, or others religious confessions - just only on spiritual experience which could help me to apply this knowledge to world outside.

You think what only your experience is only relevant and your can make some remarks about my creditability, liability and involvement - it is not, but vital because it's only you who is shining in the sky of the God as who you are. The problem is that you would like to listen to what you want to hear - complaints about BK, criticisms and blaming BK - I will nether do it because it gives me everything in my life at all aspects of my life.

After all, its only good manners. Do you think i do something improperly or in bad manners? I remind you again, your karma is your karma - your Shrimat is your Shrimat only.

It is matter of God to count me.

Sorry for inconveniences or disturbance. I apologise entirely.

Om Shanti

john morgan
ex-BK
Posts: 306
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Re: Hello from daughter of BK

Post by john morgan » 06 Jun 2008

paulkershaw wrote:at least let us know who and what you are so we can handle your tack appropriately. After all, its only good manners.
Paul, it seems that you are here in your name as am I in mine. We are definitely in the minority, most preferring to remain anonymous. Are you asking Ermine to reveal his identity when almost everyone else is hiding theirs?

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Re: Hello from daughter of BK

Post by fluffy bunny » 07 Jun 2008

I asked the question. Of course, I am not. Ermine just did not come across as a BK. What I am reading from what he says is that he is not. He is doing his own thing on the outside of the system. This is why I asked watch experience he has had in the system ... doing service, running a center, dealing with the leadership etc. may be he is only a contact soul they keep sweet because he has money or good contacts, someone whose opinions they tolerate because he is useful or might turn into a pukka BK one day. I here to deal with BK stuff but when it goes 'off forum' into unrelated non-BK philosophy, there are limits of how much I am willing to wade through.

Relating the topic back to alanna again (I hate going off topic) ... it is interesting to know when a BK became a BK because, obviously, different 'vintages' of BKs have different 'flavours'. For many new BKs, it is a bit of a shock to discover what it going on and it generally takes them some time to readjust their world view and take on board the reality of it all.

I would say alanna is a child of the 'revised Western BKWSU', post the '7 Days Course' era. I have no wish to become personal but after a while it becomes fairly possible to date the time of some BKs involvement by the ideas they come out with just as it is with 'lokik' classes or generations by their concepts, e.g, the subjectivist cant at the end of ermine's last post. It is good for such BKs, and contact souls, to know more about previous generations experience, like your own John. How it was not always like they think it is and our experience are valid and true.

No, it is not "my karma, my Shrimat", ermine. The purpose of a spiritual path is to put aside the subjective and embrace the object and true. And if we have a corpse in front of us, or even a missing one, then that is what we have. I am sorry but that is a weak yukti (method) to defray reason and valid critique. Reason is the bedrock, launchpad of our consciousness. Without it, all you have is 'wah-wah spirituality' ... illusion ... seduction ... Maya.

ermine
BK supporter
Posts: 39
Joined: 04 Apr 2008
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Despite of I am not regular followers I would like to express my entire support BKWSU and equally criticize them.

Re: Hello from daughter of BK

Post by ermine » 07 Jun 2008

Om Shanti sisters and others,

thank for your honesty and proud dediction to your haven Shrimat - i entirely appreciate it you are one of the best child of the BB. Your path is very elevated and i think your are still vital member of our spiritual family of angels. Brilliancy you are so unique and gorgeous in spiritual point of view of course.

I am agree with you and what I am doing here is big shame for BB children. I like your lokik language and style. Of course, I am doing my own thing as everybody does, even SS or others angels - we are not robots or zombies as you are pretending, explicitly reflect using different types of manipulative objection and interpretation, or even make your own conclusion about quality of spiritual path, make different illusive statements against BK in whole embraced materialistic manner - "the purpose of spiritual path" "embrace the object and true".

As I've already mentioned, you want to listen to what you want to hear. Your prepositions is intentionally inflexible. I have never pretended to be spiritually active, just following Shrimat as i understand it but believe me what are you talking here was in my brain 8-10 years ago after long time deep illusiveness what can i see what a lot of children do, for god sake i undergone it and think other BB children will do or go out as your did I think. But it is just matter of time and karma. I "ruined" my lokik carrier when i got into. All my lokik friends are gone including close relatives but i revised my path but by precise advise in Madhuban and at the moment i do what i do. You perfectly know how BB children behave - your are children - and your experience is very good proof but it does not matter that do you think subjectively or as you mentioned "defray reason and valid critique".

I really do not understand your are lokik or inlokik your energy is really looks like your are still BK-thank you it is god job maybe it is illusion but part of circle. You think if i am here that means i am not BK - it is your illusion also regarding your temporarily absence but my point of view your have never been perfectly fit for ..., just body presence and bodily contact with SS and others.

Sister - going back rethink and get here with new idea but without confrontation, just You and God. It will be very interesting new exiting experience. If you will not do it, you will miss a lots. Can you imagine - start again pressing your preposition and prejudices It look like new life - left it's a confined space your personally can do better if your go hire, your deserve it, oh my spiritual sister.

Have a look comprehensively your cannot change anything in this way, your understand it better than me, it is just self-cherishing and immersing in deep ego - wasting your haven skills and uniqueness again and again.

sorry went so far
Om Shanti

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Re: Hello from daughter of BK

Post by fluffy bunny » 07 Jun 2008

Why cant one get a straight answer to a simple question out of BKs these days?

One of the question I was asking alanna, whose topic this is, was whether she thought the spirit guide of the Brahma Kumaris was "God". She could not or would not answer, even for herself. Despite that her darna, or lack of spiritual principles, suggest a large part of her has consciously said, "no" and walked.

To say, "yes, it is God" was to condemn herself to a low status in the Silver Age, being an impure Shudra, "lower than the lowest of the low" by the Murli. To say, "no" was then to have to ask the question ... "well, who was it if it was not god, what is it up to and what is it doing to all these people". The former are not "subjective" interpretations, they are the Murli and BK teachings.
God of the BKs spoke not wrote:Many kumaris are also very dirty. How much so ever one may explain them, they do not understand. They are just interested in drinking urine (i.e. indulging in sex). They keep thinking of indulging in sex and drinking urine. There are such persons also who go on honeymoon. They go there to indulge in sex. When they (i.e. the kumaris) hear about it, they also feel like blackening their faces (i.e. indulging in sex). Sakar Murli 21 April 1969

People use the knife of sex lust (i.e. get married and then indulge in sex) with a lot of pomp. One must prepare their picture also. A Kumar and a kumari should be given a knife of sex in their hands (in the form of picture). Both should be shown placing their knives of sex lust on each other’s necks. Then you explain, “Father says that Sex lust is the biggest enemy.” Baba tells Kumaries also that if you get married then you will be destroyed. Do not fall into this gutter. Will you not listen to even the Father? Will you not become the empress (queen) of heaven? One must take a vow that I shall never enter that world. I shall not remember that world. Sakar Murli 4 March 1975
So, do you mean God or the channelled entity/spirit guide of the Brahma Kumaris? If the latter, let's stick to the hard facts of Brahma Kumari philosophy. What is it to be? "Destruction" and the death of 6 Billion by, say, 2018 or the beginning of the Golden Age and coronation of Lakshmi and Narayan in 2036 ...?

Or does nothing matter, and should we question nothing as Janki Kripalani would have us, as long as we are walking around believing ourselves to be angels of light and ... oh, so "spiritual"?

john morgan
ex-BK
Posts: 306
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Hello from daughter of BK

Post by john morgan » 07 Jun 2008

Hello Ermine,

I like your words very much. Obviously English is not your first language but that does not for me mar the substantial things you say. You speak your truth softly and gently. I like you. :D

John

ermine
BK supporter
Posts: 39
Joined: 04 Apr 2008
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Despite of I am not regular followers I would like to express my entire support BKWSU and equally criticize them.

Re: Hello from daughter of BK

Post by ermine » 07 Jun 2008

Om Shanti
Dear sister
Your are quite unpredictable and most elevated BB treasure.
Your sincere position and expression look like that you are a jury,judge or SS. Your have been failing into a distinctive conclusion who is right BK or who is wrong, who is experienced or not by using a heaven expression and worlds from Murli ( and of course your understanding of it).
what is the significant prove that your are still there thus you cannot live without it but slightly different ly.
I do not pay attention that you mentioned above because there are completely different things that i get from BK. I've already told to you i thought like that long time ago.
Sakar Murli???? or not thank. But it does matter for me at the moment - it is past, my present condition is more important( and your also).
Your think differently - i think differently, your Shrimat is your Shrimat, your karma is your karma.
It is precise treasure and merit - your and me and others.
Do you think your can change some thing in this way or open eye to somebody. if people blind spiritually and happy it is their blindness and happiness but it is elevated blidness . But all of them are different but spiritually equal in comparison with bodily presence and condition on the earth in respect of soul condition.
Do you think that revealing facts like those above mentioned could change something.
okey to be polite i said yes- if it is not right or true but think different it is change something - human being factor - lay. everything is derived from lay or relativeness.
My yes - makes your happy but in reality it is not true and your happiness illusive, next step ego - do your thing it is bid deal or revolution? for that?
One illusion cultivates another- together it is philosophy, social group, followers. But where is your uniqueness- finally disappear, Maya.
I am not measuring anything by somebodys' expression or experience, or all over, by written words. Spiritual books are just one of million tools for understating.
I know that kind of a further comments you will write - do you think it is interesting thing to do for you?, your deserve it? Your are better than you are really expressing yourself- your know it perfectly.
Your deserve to bring something more bigger and interesting, but not on the public podium or advertising yourself by judgments or blaming, inside you what only your able to measure!!!
Have you ever thought what kind of souls are they? who agree with you or got same idea? 100% Honest or egoist? or??? or???? without end- "endless of nothingness" - it has nothing to do with spirituality, sorry in my view.
"spiritually enlightened bandwagon, or " or society spiritually self enlightened or liberated communist,socialist or capitalist or ex-BK, BK ...????? or something else???
But where is the SOUL? uniqueness ?
Sorry sister for this expression but i really like you!!!
Om Shanti

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Not worth reading

Post by fluffy bunny » 07 Jun 2008

Just one looking at the above makes me feel sick ... its like having some spew all over you.
  • If someone cannot be bothered laying out their thoughts in a presentable manner, I do not see why I should be expected to wade through them to find meaning.
    If someone wont answer a single, simple question then not only is it impossible to have any dialogue with them at all, they have no intention of doing so.
I am sorry. I tried but I have now stopped trying ... life is too short.

ermine
BK supporter
Posts: 39
Joined: 04 Apr 2008
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Despite of I am not regular followers I would like to express my entire support BKWSU and equally criticize them.

Re: ex-l's recent postings damaging how the forum is perceived?

Post by ermine » 07 Jun 2008

Om Shanti sister

I agree with you now it is true.
ex-l wrote:I am sorry. I tried but I have now stopped trying ... life is too short.
During meditation we used to not talking too much. It is a different world, no Murli, no SS or BK, no arguable conclusions, no philosophical terms and definitions.

See you soon sister
Om Shanti

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Re: ex-l's recent postings damaging how the forum is perceived?

Post by fluffy bunny » 07 Jun 2008

ermine wrote:During meditation we used to not talking too much. It is a different world, no Murli, no SS or BK, no arguable conclusions, no philosophical terms and definitions.
Yup, best keep your head in the clouds and not think about the reality of it all. Like little chickens in a cage with a red light to keep you company not thinking of where their lives are going.

Note bene ...

If any other pseudo-BK feels the need to come and have a go at me personally ... or wants to generally poison the waters just because of what I have posted on this forum ... then please come and do it here rather than pursuing me all over the forum spoiling things for others. Best not because it is a poor reflection on your faith, practise and personal integrity.

If you keep 'on topic', and write in legible English, there is a very good chance that I will respond reasonably whatever comments you wish to make and even general abuse.

Sadly, my attitude towards the BKWSU has been too far too corrupted by my recent very real, persistent and 'hands on' experiences with such BKs - and the leadership - over the last couple of year for doing what ... the great sin of telling it how it is and wanting to world to know.

No offense intended to any sweet, pukka, Maryadas-following BKs who wish to discuss Shrimat, the Yugya's history, reform or improvement issues.

ermine
BK supporter
Posts: 39
Joined: 04 Apr 2008
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Despite of I am not regular followers I would like to express my entire support BKWSU and equally criticize them.

Re: ex-l's recent postings damaging how the forum is perceived?

Post by ermine » 08 Jun 2008

Dear sister

I sincerely apology for my English or any unreasonable comments. It is really shame to that I had written after 2 years academic study in English.

I've been thinking about it. Probably I will get out of job and go to English college for one year from this September (English literature). Sometimes I do not understand what I wrote - a completely mess.

Would you mind to correct some of my writings? Of course, not to much: 3 - 4 most obviously mistaken sentences. If you agreed would you sent to me, personally. I really has no intention to abuse you personally. If I did, so sorry for it.
Yours sincerely,

User avatar
paulkershaw
ex-BK
Posts: 684
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BKWSU
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am an ex-teacher and member of the BKWSU and my interest lies in assisting those who request support on any level I can.
Location: South Africa

Re: Hello from daughter of BK

Post by paulkershaw » 09 Jun 2008

john morgan wrote: Paul, it seems that you are here in your name as am I in mine. We are definitely in the minority, most preferring to remain anonymous. Are you asking Ermine to reveal his identity when almost everyone else is hiding theirs?
No, John, I am not. I couldn't care less if people use their 'real' moniker or not. I don't see how you can read that in my posting? A forum 'name' is a personal choice which I do respect however. I, personally, know some of the 'people' behind the forum names.

My point is that people should answer questions posed or let the forum readers know why that answer cannot be provided. One cannot have a conversation with someone who won't present their 'history' or their point of reference. That's all ex-l is asking by the way.

It often feels that people have plenty to say herein but have no personal experience of their own to share with forum and rather. Just for the sake of being part of the forum, will spew forth as much stuff as they can. (Ermine; I am not saying that this about you ...) . Come on folks, if you're going to be part of a forum, at least have the manners to tell us where you're coming from. But, of course, I repeat, anonymity is a personal choice. Satisfied?

User avatar
paulkershaw
ex-BK
Posts: 684
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BKWSU
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am an ex-teacher and member of the BKWSU and my interest lies in assisting those who request support on any level I can.
Location: South Africa

Re: ex-l's recent postings damaging how the forum is perceived?

Post by paulkershaw » 09 Jun 2008

Ermine wrote:Where is your soul, spiritual balance - it is what you got after long time in the BK. As I've already mentioned, the development of our spiritual ego within spiritual experience by illusive attachments
.
Oh, come on Ermine, that's really very sweet. Just like a lovely warm gulab jamun in the mouth. But totally inadequate.

What I read in your posting is that you are questioning one's spiritual balance and you also use the famous word that all BKs shudder about - "ego". The BK nightmare in fact.

If you'd take the time to go back in the forum's postings, you may discover postings about many people's spiritual history, current spiritual practices and posts about their life-journey which led them to the BKs, as well as to other spiritual practices/journeys . Not only mine but many other forum members too, some of them no longer part of this forum, having decided to move on. Perhaps they became more 'spiritually balanced."

As the BK supporter that you are, I think though that I'd be wasting my time trying to convince you of the fact that there are many other successful and happy people in the world, as well as people who are part of this forum, who do not (and have nor need) to practice their spirituality within the constraints of the BKWSU teachings.

My opinion, is that its a big spiritual ego that develops when one is taught that one is better than others. It's a common mistake that not only manifests within the group that you support, but also in many others. Someone I personally know, and not a BK at all, was recently told of her huge role as a 'world server' shall we say and, despite the fact she's lost everything in her life including her parents and her child, insists on running around 'serving' everyone with her own brand of ''I am better than you and I am more spiritual than you so DO AS I SAY" and, because of this, is unwilling to work and waits on the universe to give her what she needs, is now sitting around as someone else looks after her but still telling everyone what's best for them. I'd say she interferes in everything and anything so she doesn't have to 'deal' with her inner processes. The point of this is that in one way you are correct, spiritual ego creates the biggest blockages but it is also perhaps necessary to experience as it will eventually be the thing that triggers off the healing process neccessary for the individual to grow spiritually.

In terms of trying to maintain the title of this thread, I am saying that ex-l is simply doing what ex-l does best: point out the ego at play within the BKWSU and is saying to them that if they don't change and become completely 'spiritual' in ALL their processes, they're going to lose. It's called "ADAPT or DIE". This forum is like one's shadow side, it shows the BKWSU the way to transformation but their ego will not allow that process to happen.

I'll say it again, there are many paths to God, and many paths to spiritual fulfillment, but they are only paths and if yours works for you, that's great, but give us a personal glimpse of you too and not just launch into the old rhetoric which many of us all know, learnt, taught and lived for many years. In my experience, the BKWSU is NOT the high and mighty sole (soul ... ?) teaching that will lead one to God directly, but it may ultimately do so by teaching one that it is NOT the path to follow and that God after all lies within reach of one-self. For me, its a case of "Don't Search anymore, rather Be".

Over to you.

ermine
BK supporter
Posts: 39
Joined: 04 Apr 2008
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Despite of I am not regular followers I would like to express my entire support BKWSU and equally criticize them.

Re: ex-l's recent postings damaging how the forum is perceived?

Post by ermine » 09 Jun 2008

Thank for your comments, I completely agree with you that are you saying - 100% applicable to BK in negative and positive sense, for me, actually. Everything is relative to your personality. I am talking about balance in the sense of quality of spiritual and non-spiritual life, equalization when you do not feel difference between them - it is achievable by Shrimat, philosophy, doctrine it does matter how would you call it. From my point of view, BK is able to give it to somebody but it has long way to go and achieve it.

Of course, naturally, there are some human and mutual exclusions (particularly within this web, not only here, it is everywhere, human being factor and psychical domination). I have to say that there is not any negativeness or positiveness in my conclusions - maybe it looks like that. I think it is my personal jargon.
As the BK supporter that you are, I think though that I'd be wasting my time trying to convince you of the fact that there are many other successful and happy people in the world, as well as people who are part of this forum, who do not (and have nor need) to practice their spirituality within the constraints of the BKWSU teachings.
I am not willing to convince you that I am successful and the happiest soul in the world - it is my personal matter. But BK has significantly changed my life and understanding forever including another spiritual confessions which were part of it but the BK was the basement of everything that i've got now in spiritual and materialistic sense, particularly to keeping daily discipline, concentration and not paying attention to unnecessary things. It is true, particularly when I was more addicted to Shrimat that my professional career flourished. I do not understand why, but i did not think about it at that time - I started realize it more deeply at the moment, and gradually for last 6 years.

Just put my thoughts into, thank for your what your existence.

Yours sincerely

User avatar
paulkershaw
ex-BK
Posts: 684
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BKWSU
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am an ex-teacher and member of the BKWSU and my interest lies in assisting those who request support on any level I can.
Location: South Africa

Re: ex-l's recent postings damaging how the forum is perceived?

Post by paulkershaw » 11 Jun 2008

Ermine

Thanks for your response, it seems carefully considered. Personal jargon is good. We all need a different viewpoint or varied opinion to be be able to understand this world we live in.

I personally appreciate far more someone's personal input in this form than someone who just throws out standard and boring spiritual 'teachings' and expects people to accept it as their truth.

There is no need to prove that one is successful and happy at all. In fact, I would say that when people try to 'prove' it to others are in fact 'not happy or successful". The "Energy of Happiness" shines from those who are such. Keep posting. :D

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests