Having a partner, getting married & becoming a mum, dad etc

for ex-Brahma Kumaris, to discuss matters related to their experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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paulkershaw
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Re: Having a partner, getting married & becoming a mum, dad etc

Post by paulkershaw » 08 Apr 2008

enlightened wrote:My therapist was quite shocked with some of the things I said about the Brahma Kumaris and its doctrine. They could not believe some of the things
I believe that Enlightened has really said it as it is here. Many professional therapists would not believe what goes on and will perhaps spend a great deal of time trying to 'heal' someone from what the therapist must believe is a 'overactive imagination' etc. A friend of mine is a professional psychologist and is counseling an ex-member of another cult, who's been battling to reintegrate with society for several years, and in passing mentioned how difficult it is for her to believe what she's hearing. Of course, after I'd filled her in on some of the goings on and directed her attention to this forum, amongst other sources of information, she's had a big realisation of the depth of 'trauma' that can be experienced by anyone involved with a cult. Hopefully she's been able to assist her client in a much deeper way now.

To Enlightened: Thank God for your courage and for accepting your own ability and potential for enlightenment. It has saved you.

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fluffy bunny
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Re: Having a partner, getting married & becoming a mum, dad etc

Post by fluffy bunny » 09 Apr 2008

One thing that your post reinforces for me, enlightened, is that the BK community leaders really don't know how to have a life and, really, as much as good BKs keep trying to expand the boundaries of BK life, we are bundled into their world view.

You mentioned your family's immigration, I am making presumptions here, can you tell us or can you compare life for non-white BKs and white or Western BKs? Do the Senior Sisters treat the two differently and if so, why? Do Indian BKs talk about Western BKs, if so how?

Secondly, do BK children have any "normal" childhood life, e.g. parties with friends, going out, are they allowed non-BK friends, do you celebrate normal festivals or are you entirely separated from non-BK world? Are you expected to sit in your bedroom and be soul-conscious every day?

Lastly, can you give any insight into the lives of children and young kumaris in India? Are they treated differently again?

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enlightened
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Re: Having a partner, getting married & becoming a mum, dad etc

Post by enlightened » 09 Apr 2008

ex-l wrote:You mentioned your family's immigration, I am making presumptions here, can you tell us or can you compare life for non-white BKs and white or Western BKs? Do the Senior Sisters treat the two differently and if so, why? Do Indian BKs talk about Western BKs, if so how?
I am, I always have been and I think I always will be a neutral person. As an observer, I can say that different cultures are treated differentlywithin the BK organisation, however, I can also say that people within the same culture can also be treated differently. I think it's no different to what we see in our society of today in every corner of the world no matter how spiritual and universal the organisation may claim to be.
Secondly, do BK children have any "normal" childhood life, e.g. parties with friends, going out, are they allowed non-BK friends, do you celebrate normal festivals or are you entirely separated from non-BK world? Are you expected to sit in your bedroom and be soul-conscious every day?
I can only speak for myself and I believe that I have already mentioned some things in previous posts that I was brainwashed and completely discouraged in doing all the above things and much more. Most of the time, I would only celebrate the festivals that were celebrated within the bk organisation. I found that as my bk parent got more and more involved with the bk organisation, I also got more and more brainwashed as I used to spend a lot of time with that parent and with the bk organisation and I believe we distanced ourself more and more from the religion in which I was born as well as from my family, friends and from the world in general. Fortunately, we did not lose complete contact with all of these no matter how much the bk's management did try.
Lastly, can you give any insight into the lives of children and young Kumaris in India? Are they treated differently again
Again as a neutral person and as an observer, I think that logicically, due to the culture in India, the children and the young would definitely be treated differently. I think that it would be extremely difficult for them as they are not able to express and voice their opinions as people may be able to in the west. I think that if any children or young in India were abused within the bk organisation, they would not be able to share this with anyone. They may not even be able to undergo psychotherapy there like I have been able.

My understanding is that psychotherapy doesn't really exist in India in the way it exists in the West. Or let's say that I personally haven't come across any information about psychotherapy being offered there. Whatsmore is that many children or young would not be able to afford these kind of therapies especially if they haven't worked before or have been completely surrendered to the bk organisation.

I have to say that, since a young age, I have kind of been an observer and have witnessed many things within the bk organisation both in the East and the West, but unfortunately, I don't have a very good memory to explain all these things in detail. Maybe with my therapy, I will start to recall more and more things or it just may not be necessary for me. Maybe I just need to let go and just concentrate on making the most of my present and future life. Life is too short. I feel that let me make the rest of my life whatever I have left worthwhile and enjoy the beauty of the now. There's nothing like the present moment!! There's nothing like the now. The now slips by before you know it and becomes your future


Regards
Enlightened :) :)

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pilatus
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Re: Having a partner, getting married & becoming a mum, dad etc

Post by pilatus » 09 Apr 2008

Hello enlightened,

Welcome to the forum and thanks for your open and honest sharing. My BK story is quite different from yours, so I wouldn't presume to advise you. However, I've picked up two key points in what you have said:
  • 1. God and your intuition saved you from the BK-life. He/she is always there for each of us, we just need to be aware of/tuned into the signals ...
    2. After many years, you're now investing time (and presumably money) in yourself and your future. This is a great leap forward for many of us where we have (been) denied some of our very basic needs, e.g. to love and be loved, to treat and appreciate ourselves (including our minds and bodies).
I am sure you'll crack the relationship game when the time is right (and assuming it's in the divine plan for you). I wish you all the very best for the future. :)

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Re: Having a partner, getting married & becoming a mum, dad etc

Post by enlightened » 09 Apr 2008

enlightened wrote: There's nothing like the present moment!! There's nothing like the now. The now slips by before you know it and becomes your future [/color]
Sorry i meant to say that the Now slips by before you know it and becomes the past and paints your future. I keep asking myself, how often can I/do I live in the now? How often can I/do iI appreciate what's in front of me in the moment? I think I am working on developing the Art of Living in the Now as I think that is where i will find my true peace, love, happiness and enlightenment. As for the rest, i guess it's history or the future.

Kind regards
Enlightened

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Re: Having a partner, getting married & becoming a mum, dad etc

Post by enlightened » 10 Apr 2008

dear Sister
sent at: 09 Apr 2008
from: ermine
to: enlightened

Dear Sister have a look at this university, i think it will be appropriate to your sensitivity, religion experience and creativity and for your parents.
very creative atmosphere, non traditional for especial personality - everything about creativity but applicable and quite competitive degree.
http://www.naropa.edu/academics/undergraduate/index.cfm
Sorry about it
But I have got 2 child like your they are girls also and i think same ages. 19 and 24

I wish your best
yours sincerely
Hi everyone

Poor Ermine has sent me the above private message. Firstly, I don't know what makes him assume that I am a sister, that i am about the same age as his girsl and I am not sure what he's implying in the above message for my parents. Does anyone understand what he may be trying to do here?

Kind regards
Enlightened

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alladin
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Re: Having a partner, getting married & becoming a mum, dad etc

Post by alladin » 10 Apr 2008

:lol: :shock: :roll:
For now.
Baby, some people are not so keen on sharing their own personal experiences, don't have the interest, the humility or the insight necessary to do that. Or they are accustomed to operate differently and they like lecturing others or providing suggestions and even addresses!
I'd like to contribute to this very interesting and serious topic, but I am processing some more stuff in my mind, so see you later.
In the meantime : Love and good vibes.

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sexy avatar

Post by alladin » 11 Apr 2008

Hi, Enlightened. Why are you sharing with all of us the pms you have been receiving from Ermine? Do you want to weaken his attempt to create some "intimate" feeling with you? :wink: If you feel a bit molested by the pms you are receiving, why not changing your avatar for a more masculine, phallic one, a rocket or something. The one you are using now to represent yourself, somehow evokes femininity, ecstasy and a promising harmlessness. Some time ago we exchanged some ideas on a topic about drishti and eroticism and your avatar could be misinterpreted as .. enticing to some who are ready to fall in Maya's arms, this time disguised as a damaged teenage virgin!!
This experiment would cause readers to "assume" from a very different perspective. :D
What if we all played the game of changing our avatars? :lol:

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enlightened
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Re: sexy avatar

Post by enlightened » 11 Apr 2008

alladin wrote:Hi, Enlightened. Why are you sharing with all of us the pms you have been receiving from Ermine? Do you want to weaken his attempt to create some "intimate" feeling with you? :wink: If you feel a bit molested by the pms you are receiving, why not changing your avatar for a more masculine, phallic one, a rocket or something. The one you are using now to represent yourself, somehow evokes femininity, ecstasy and a promising harmlessness. Some time ago we exchanged some ideas on a topic about drishti and eroticism and your avatar could be misinterpreted as .. enticing to some who are ready to fall in Maya's arms, this time disguised as a damaged teenage virgin!!
This experiment would cause readers to "assume" from a very different perspective. :D
What if we all played the game of changing our avatars? :lol:
I disagree with you completely. The picture actually goes with the name enlightened. Get it!! I personally don't think that there's anything sexy about it. If anything, it comes across as quite spiritual in my opinion.

Regards
Enlightened :| :|

ermine
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Re: Having a partner, getting married & becoming a mum, dad etc

Post by ermine » 11 Apr 2008

Dear spiritual brothers and sisters
Om Shanti

Holy Sister wrote "It comes across as quite spiritual in my opinion."
Could you explain to me the meaning of "quite spiritual", "spiritual" itself and "enlightened".
Om Shanti

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Re: Having a partner, getting married & becoming a mum, dad etc

Post by arjun » 11 Apr 2008

ex-l wrote:Secondly, do BK children have any "normal" childhood life, e.g. parties with friends, going out, are they allowed non-BK friends, do you celebrate normal festivals or are you entirely separated from non-BK world? Are you expected to sit in your bedroom and be soul-conscious every day?
The level of normalcy of the childhood of BK children depends on the seriousness with which their parents are following the BK path of knowledge. If they are strict, they try to impose the BK rules upon their children, who may willingly or unwillingly follow those rules. Some assimilate those rules in their life even after they grow-up (by trying to understand the reasoning behind them) while some feel that they have lost their childhood while following these rules. I have full sympathy with them and feel that the BK/PBK parents should try to give enough freedom to their children to enjoy a normal childhood even if it has to be within the confines of BK/PBK rules. For example, if they do not want their children to eat in hotels/restaurants, they should try to prepare such food at home or try to organize get-together of BK families where they could cook jointly or go out on picnics with BK families.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: Having a partner, getting married & becoming a mum, dad etc

Post by enlightened » 11 Apr 2008

Hi everyone,

I Just wanted to share something with you all. Ermine sent me another private message asking me if I had ever taken an anger management course or watercolour course. I just wanted to clarify that the reason for me posting his private messages on the forum was not because I was angry, on the contrary, I wanted to try and ascertain what his emails were trying to say. So i am sorry if it has upset you ermine or anyone else for that matter. That was not my intention at all.

Whilst we are on the topic of anger, I would like to share with everyone that with my involvement with the Brahma Kumaris since childhood, I was actually deprived from expressing my anger at all. Anger is an energy that one is clearly not allowed to express in this organisation or in a life of a BK, however, my therapist has clearly explained to me that anger is an energy that is vital for human survival as is the energy of love, peace etc. There is nothing wrong whatsoever with someone expressing their anger. My therapist also told me that no one, and I mean no one should be deprived from expressing their anger.

Whilst anger might come across as a negative energy, it is actually as important as the energy of love. Of course, this may be dependent on the way one expresses their anger but it is still a necessity in life.

In fact, my therapist was quite concerned that I was unable to express any anger at all. The therapist was concerned that if there was any anger, it was all being directed to myself. This made me realise how because of the suppression and rigidity etc that I was brought up with through the influence of the brahma kumaris organisation, because we were not allowed to express this energy along with many other energies, I was bottling up all my emotions and eventually this turned into anger being directed towards myself. I came to the awareness that one of the reasons why people harm themselves could be because they are directing all their anger, hatred etc to themselves instead of expressing it outwards.

Hence, this may explain what may have happened to the two Bk's who committed suicide some years ago. If one directs their anger only to themselves, then one may start to get suicidal thoughts and maybe even intention to commit suicide and then they may turn to actually committing suicide.

Believe you and me, I am talking from experience as I have recently gone through all these emotions of directing anger, etc only to myself and having suicidal thoughts. It has been quite an incredible journey for me to watch myself go through this experience, however, thanks to my therapist and one or two other people I hung on in there and I think I am finally coming out the other side. What a relief it is to want to live again, to want to enjoy life again, to start to love myself again, to be happy again etc. Looking at it from this perspective, I have come to the conclusion that actually anger can be quite a healthy option in some situations.

I still have a long way to go to developing the art of anger and to feeling even better, but with the grace of God, my therapist and a few others around me, I am sure I will reach to wherever it is I need to go to.

I have no interest whatsoever in being a BK/PBK or whatever other label one may wish to give to themselves, my only interest is to go into the essence of spirituality and to leave behind all the expansion and just be myself. I don't have any interest in joining any other group or organisation. I just want to be... :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Okay
I hope this makes sense and maybe help others in the now or in the future.
Kind regards
Enlightened

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tete
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My pms are shut down by me. Thank you and best wishes to
you in your life's journey. :-)

Re: Having a partner, getting married & becoming a mum, dad etc

Post by tete » 11 Apr 2008

Enlightened wrote:I would like to share with everyone that with my involvement with the Brahma Kumaris since childhood, I was actually deprived from expressing my anger at all. Anger is an energy that one is clearly not allowed to express in this organisation or in a life of a BK, however, my therapist has clearly explained to me that anger is an energy that is vital for human survival as is the energy of love, peace etc.
Boy am I familiar with this! It made me laugh to think back on some very awkward situations over the years, but they say when you can laugh at yourself...it is a good sign of positive change. :lol:
Enlightened wrote:I just want to be... :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
You go, Enlightened.... :wink:
[youtube=ESbvqyDF2-s&feature=related]Don’t Worry Be Happy[/youtube]
You are a welcomed breath of fresh air and you like smilies too! :wink:

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enlightened
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Re: Having a partner, getting married & becoming a mum, dad etc

Post by enlightened » 11 Apr 2008

Thank's Tete

It was great to listen to that song again after a long long time! It made my day.

Dear All

I just wanted to add to my previous comments that whilst taking a walk this evening, it suddenly occured to me that if one suppresses their anger, then that may be one of the reasons one starts to develop cancerous cells in the body. As the anger is not able to vent outside, it may be that the unexpressed anger, suppressed anger, or anger towards oneself begins to manifest in the form of cancerous cells or other cells which bring about physical and mental illness.

So maybe here's another reason why it may be vital to develop the art of expressing our anger.

Best wishes
Enlightened :idea: :idea: 8) :idea: :idea:

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joel
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Expressing anger

Post by joel » 12 Apr 2008

Recognizing that the BKWSU's narrow orthodoxy about anger -- that anger is unequivocally negative and destructive -- helped me see that the BK teachings are fallable.

I, too, suppressed my feelings of anger for many years, became quiet and dull. If I am still dull, at least I am no longer quiet!
I believe that you cannot suppress one emotion without crippling one's entire emotional life. Anger is much more dangerous when it is unknown and unconscious. Today I find my reactions much less like the BK description (possession by evil spirits), much less frightening and threatening, when with the help of inner acceptance I can begin to see the thoughts and feelings that live within my angry reactions to some of life's events. Often these feelings are founded in juvenile, simplistic views of life accompanied by unrealistic expectations.

On the face of it the BK's preach the old self-help ideas of generations past: Try harder and things will get better. Today many people work with themselves and with therapists to become aware of the cross motivations and unconcious intentions that hold back superficial attempts to change ones behavior.

Rigid, unhealthy rules about dealing with anger will of course be damaging to children. At the same time, problems understanding and expressing anger in productive ways are in many many families, not just those involved with dogmatic religious or cult practices.

Thanks for writing, Enlightened, giving me an opportunity to revisit facets of this issue.

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