BK Jayanti Kirpalani

for ex-Brahma Kumaris, to discuss matters related to their experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
andrey
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Post by andrey » 11 Dec 2007

For Brother Andrey, or anybody, to say that "donation of money or time, labour, energy, or whatever) is a voluntary thing, we are all responsible for our actions, etc ... means that whoever in making such statements is either; under deep conditioning to think that, "you are free, it's your choice", when it is not.
To leave under the pressure of something you don't comply with and to submit to it, can be called only escaping your own inherent freedom. To escape this freedom is also a free choice. To think we are basically not free and when others - no matter who they may be - release us is to willingly live in bondage. Complaints are for those who change their mind afterwards. "The choice i made - it was not me then - now it is the true me". We are always one and the same me, then and now. Whether we leave under illusion or not, we don't know at the moment, but every moment we have to make choices.

When you make a choice, the one who comes in your mind, or the one you go to ask for - he is not responsible. He is responsible if you ask and you follow. For asking only you are yourself responsible. That's why independent does not mean not dependent to anyone, because this is not possible. It is in our nature to not know to ask etc., but to be dependent to one only.

It is even some kind of bondage to suffer seeing the injustice. You escaped the BKs. Now you call yourself free. Where do your complaints come from? It is also possible those who donate or live in the BKWSU feel it as their own choice and product of their own free will. For some it is pressure, for some it is pleasure. Your point of judgement is partial.

Will we ever be free to choose then? We will never be. There will always be some other people by whom we will be influenced. That's why it is said that the one who is independent is king and the one who is influenced is a subject. I also believe it needs not mean that someone does not take into account others or situations, but to take responsibility for your own self, that whatever you do you do and not point fingers to others - he is guilty and he is guilty. One can of course make choice under pressure etc, but if one takes it as if his own choice he feels free. This freedom no one can take away, the other is the bird in the open cage.

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fluffy bunny
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Post by fluffy bunny » 11 Dec 2007

andrey wrote:We are always one and the same me, then and now.
Headed off topic as usual andrey and this comment goes against the entire teachings of the Cycle and, allegedly, the Confluence Age ... never mind the psychology of social conditioning and brainwashing.

On entering the BKWSU we were essentially given a social contract. The basis of that social contract, the terms and conditions, was dishonest, misleading and incomplete. I think the vast majority of BKs are good souls but they have and still are being willfully deceived by the leadership ... like our good sister friend here ... I asked about finances, what if we were to broaden the ethical question to awareness of the Advance Knowledge, abuses against the PBKs and others?

If I was that leader, I would feel a responsibility to my followers (and let's face it, the Kirpalani Klan have their own followers, it is not all just Baba-Baba-Baba) to clarify and detail the past if only to clear my conscience if not my reputation ... not deliver another fresh coat of whitewash.

This is why I ask difficult questions, it is a good opportunity to see what lies under the surface by the response received. The whole question of what, where and if there is undue influence is arising in many minds. If there is not total clarity, if words do not equal action ... what are we to guess?

andrey
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Post by andrey » 11 Dec 2007

I meant that we are the same soul all the time then and now and we are free to decide each time. Seems indeed huge part of the problems come due to simple misunderstanding - like communication problem.

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fluffy bunny
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Post by fluffy bunny » 11 Dec 2007

andrey wrote:Seems indeed huge part of the problems come due to simple misunderstanding - like communication problem.
Yes, a lack of honesty and openness is a communication problem ... the responsibility lying with the leadership that practise it.

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Post by andrey » 11 Dec 2007

I meant misunderstandig between you and me - regarding "being me all the time in the cycle", but you again have drifted. Sometimes it is difficult to grasp whom or what are you talking about. Although being more general, conclusions may seem being more sizable, but at other hand if we don't stick to solid ground and discussing concrete examples we just talk for no reason.

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fluffy bunny
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Post by fluffy bunny » 11 Dec 2007

andrey wrote:you again have drifted. Sometimes it is difficult to grasp whom or what are you talking about.
No Andrey, I am sticking with the topic. If you are addressing me personally, or yourself ... clarify.

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paulkershaw
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Post by paulkershaw » 11 Dec 2007

andrey wrote:I meant that we are the same soul all the time then and now and we are free to decide each time. Seems indeed huge part of the problems come due to simple misunderstanding - like communication problem.
That's the point many threads on this site make: ... one is not free to decide for oneself at all ... as one remains ignorant and stuck in a particular beleif system on many levels ... until one learns differently through individual experience and begins to listen (and really hear) - to - the truth that (for some) eventually emerges from within the heart and mind and then begins to honour that truth. ... Ishq' Allah for that I say.

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Post by andrey » 11 Dec 2007

Dear brother paul,

Yes, it is what i mean. We definitely stick to one belief system or another, whether it is through study from one or many sources or just following the waves of the wind from within. In any case we have a free choice. It is other thing that we need not study and we know the truth from within. I don't agree to this. I belive what you try to say is different that our inner self feels what is true.

Of course, it is true that we are not free at present. This is we like to do something but do something else etc. We suffer, we hesitate etc but i don't agree to the thing that whatever the heart tells this is the final truth.

Heart tells something today other thing tomorrow. If we knew what is good for us and just follow our instincts we would not need a head to think about it. For example, a narco has a deep desire for drugs but it is not good. As good and bad is moral term it belongs to the intellect - the head. Heart does not discriminate.

I agree that the big head also makes the heart suffer. So as we all know final solution is balance, but if we can take decisions based on our heart, or train our heart to feel what is good. I suppose the second option is the right one.

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alladin
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eureka!!

Post by alladin » 14 Dec 2007

Hi ex-l! Now I understood how things work and make sense for a twisted mind; " it's your fault if you believed in the story of imminent Destruction".

So, stop complaining.

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fluffy bunny
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Re: eureka!!

Post by fluffy bunny » 14 Dec 2007

alladin wrote:... it's your fault if you believed in the story of imminent Destruction". So, stop complaining.
Quite ... and its your fault if I conned you.

Just to keep this 'on topic' - from andrey's habitual and often deliberate - drifting, Jayanti is famous as the one that always taught Destruction was two to three years away .. and has been since the 1970s or 80s.

Is she not intelligent enough to know how influential her thoughts and position are to others, or use them over others!?!

How does she feel about this? Is it all God's fault or her followers for following her mat?

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abrahma kumar
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A Thought Leader unearthed before Destruction strikes

Post by abrahma kumar » 14 Dec 2007

alladin wrote:Hi ex-l! Now I understood how things work and make sense for a twisted mind; " it's your fault if you believed in the story of imminent Destruction". So, stop complaining.
Is this one of the guiding philosophies of a so-called Thought Leader?

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alladin
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justifications

Post by alladin » 14 Dec 2007

Hi, Ak. As you know, in this perfect knowledge, there's always a perfect answer to every question and scene in Drama. Some, in fact, deserve being posted in the "joke" topic. But messing with people's life and minds, is no joke. So, just a couple to start with as an appetizer;
  • "Everyone is playing their part perfectly in the Drama."
    "It was your karma."
    "You had karma with that person."
    "Past is past" ... and so on.
It's a perfect philosophy and perfect system. Designed for??? :roll: :cry:

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arjun
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Post by arjun » 18 Dec 2007

Quoted from the BK section:

62.

"So, Baba says children, ensure that you do not remember anything in the end. Whatever you have dedicated should also not come to your mind. The Father says I do not take any such thing that remains unused and (for which) I have to give returns there because I am a friend/patron of the poor ones (garibnivaaz). There are many who give (something) and if by any reason they run away (from the path of knowledge), they start asking (whatever they had given). Maya bites them immediately. Otherwise children say – whether you beat or love, this intoxicated person (mastana) would never leave your doorstep, will never forget (you). You children have come here to get transformed from a man to Narayan. You get such a big inheritance. Then why do you say that we give. You take, don’t you? Who asks you to give anything? Even if someone gives one paisa, palace would get ready for them there." (Revised Sakar Murli dated 27.10.07, pg 3 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

Although the above point is not exactly the point that I wanted to post, but it does mention that nobody is asked to give any money to the Yagya. So, asking the surrendered sisters to bring dowry is not at all a Shrimat.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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fluffy bunny
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Post by fluffy bunny » 07 Jan 2008

Jayanti billed as a "living angel" reading the Murli live in Miami, here

Check out the Trimurti Dadis photos on the wall in the background ... I guess that Murli did not mention anything abot not keeping photographs :?.

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Post by john morgan » 07 Jan 2008

Thanks for that ex-1,

It was the first time I had seen or heard a Senior Sister reading the Murli - or part of for a very long time. Though there is a remarkable sister at the Cambridge Inner Space that read a few Murlis to me about two and a half years ago.

It seems that in order to become a deity from human complete mastery of one's own sanskaras is required along with much "blowing of the conch shell." BapDada uses very concentrated language.

Yes, billing Sister Jayanti as a living angel is an understatement.

The pictures on the side I found a little odd. I thought that when someone died all you were supposed to do was suck a sweet!

Let's get back to the point, who am I? who am I? who am I ...?

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