What was that? ( ... Meeting in Madhuban with Bap-Dada)

for ex-Brahma Kumaris, to discuss matters related to their experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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proy
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Re: Welcome sarquel

Post by proy » 24 Nov 2007

abrahma Kumar wrote:Thanks too to proy. regards abek
Nae bother Abek M8 :lol:

Us Free Spirits got to soar.

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uddhava
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Post by uddhava » 24 Nov 2007

saraquel wrote:I am new to this site but not new to the BKs. I was a serious (pukka) member for just over 10 years, from 1980 to around 1991 - my memory for precise years gets hazier as time goes on.
Dear saraquel,

I would be interested to hear what your view is of BapDada is now. I think the possibilities are:
  • a) God enters the Chariot in a literal not figurative sense (it does exactly what it says on the tin).
    b) it is not God but some other supernatural entity that enters the Chariot in a literal sense (something happens, but not what it says on the tin).
    c) the Chariot has some kind of yogic power but no 'third party' supernatural entity enters the Chariot, except maybe in a figurative sense (there is no tin).
    d) don't know.
Have I left any out? :roll:

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Post by arjun » 25 Nov 2007

Dear Saraquel,

Om Shanti and welcome to the forum. You have reminded me of my childhood (both lokik and alokik) days when we used to meet Avyakt BapDada in the small meditation hall located beside the Baba's hut (not the history hall as you have mentioned; history hall is located near the Tower of Peace). But since I was a child then, I never got to sit for the entire duration of Avyakt BapDada's stay in Madhuban. But I remember once when we went to the next day's morning class, it was announced that BapDada had gone back about a couple of hours ago. It must have been really difficult for the Chariot, i.e. Gulzar Dadi those days after sitting in the same posture for nearly 6-12 hours once in every few days.

Yes, those days Avyakt BapDada used to spend quite a lot time meeting individuals after meeting the groups of various cities/states from India and groups from foreign countries. BKs have conveniently not published most of the words spoken by Avyakt BapDada to the groups leave alone individuals. Even if the words spoken to groups were to be published by the BKs, it would have been big volumes of Avyakt Vanis every year. Even if it wasn't for every BK to buy, they should have kept a copy of the entire record of Avyakt BapDada for library records/reference. If they do have any such record of all the words spoken by Avyakt BapDada it is commendable and should be preserved. But only an insider can give the correct information on this subject.
Then Dadi, Didi (she died in 1981 I think, I only met her on my first visit) and Dadi Janki would sit close to Baba and talk to him in Hindi. Although there was no translation, I remember these discussions as being very practical.
As far as I know Didi left her body in 1983. Yes, there was more transparency then.
BapDada would chat with us and laugh and tease and then throw toli (sweets) into the group.
Such scenes were more common on the days of Diwali, Christmas, New Year and Shivjayanti when huge cakes used to be cut and 36 to 108 varieties of toli used to be distributed. I remember BKs from Mexico used to bring long rolls of paper ribbons and throw them on the audience. Some Double Foreigner BKs also used to sing songs in front of Avyakt BapDada if my memory is not bad.

Uddhava, welcome back to the forum.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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just channeling

Post by freedom » 08 Dec 2007

I've been hearing Abraham versions of our existence here and it makes a lot of sense, very practical. "Abraham"; a group of non-physical beings that uses the body of Esther Hicks ... and can be compared to Baba or BapDada and Dadi Gulzar with one big difference; Abraham is here really to teach us how we are pure energy (remember the movie K-Pax?!), and is not creating a religion, a group of followers, not asking for money or your time to serve others and they don't see a destruction of this planet at all, and this is the best time, when everybody is awakening ... it just feels better, lighter ... check them out ...

8)

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Re:

Post by sarah » 07 Mar 2008

pilatus wrote:This was around the time that another message came through that 100% of the participants had achieved the flying stage.
Sorry to join so late in the topic, but what does this mean? What is the flying stage? :?

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Re: Re:

Post by fluffy bunny » 08 Mar 2008

sarah wrote:What is the flying stage? :?
It means when you have gathered enough followers who provide sufficient donations to allow you to become a permanent, international, business class air traveller like Janki Kripalani ...

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Re: What was that? ( ... Meeting in Madhuban with Bap-Dada)

Post by tete » 09 Mar 2008

Hey, keep the jokes in the jokes section PLEASE! :lol:

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Re: Re:

Post by enlightened » 09 Mar 2008

ex-l wrote:It means when you have gathered enough followers who provide sufficient donations to allow you to become a permanent, international, business class air traveller like Janki Kripalani ...
Good one, ex-l!!!

Iknewit :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: What was that? ( ... Meeting in Madhuban with Bap-Dada)

Post by fluffy bunny » 10 Mar 2008

Yes, sorry sarah. Obviously I was joking.

"Flying stage" ... who knows. Usual dribble that is supposed to mean something and entertain BK followers which no one understands, no one can empirically define and only the serious and pure of heart actually stop to question.

My feeling is that it would be related to being angels and have come from the "fly home to Baba" ditty and so simply mean being in constant mental connection with the holy spook. I would love to hear an "official" definition.

You do realise that the BKs are the real angels, don't you? And all the other talk and representation of spiritual messengers are mere distorted memories of them?

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Re: What was that? ( ... Meeting in Madhuban with Bap-Dada)

Post by paulkershaw » 10 Mar 2008

I really don't understand the posts in this thread. Does anyone really fly less than Business class? If one is in the Business of Flying surely ... a broom stick won't do no-more?

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conforming to blind faith

Post by alladin » 10 Mar 2008

Hi :D
I happened to open the first page of this topic by mistake and started to read some old posts about "who is who", is the Spook in Madhuban possessing Dadi Gulzar God or not? etc ...

I heard about the bad shape the Chariot was in recently, and the consequent difficulty she had in speaking whilst coughing during the 18/02/08 meeting. Maybe that's why that Murli was a short one. Apparently, DG has recovered and someone was telling me how - during Shivaratri's Murli, that is on 5/03 - her face changed a lot after starting the channelling, as if any sign of unwellness or tiredness had vanished (better than a super expensive anti-wrinkle treatment). Does anyone have any fresh news about that?

In any case, even if we were 100% sure that DG is possessed whilst speaking, there's no 100% guarantee that the spirit expressing itself through her is God Almighty. Even if he helped her overcome various ailments including cancer, because he needed her and another Chariot wouldn't be suitable to be appointed for that role, this could be a Satanic power or anything: traditionally, the devil has many lives and gives extra strength to his followers. I never became obsessed by such crucial questions, I just tried to find useful points in the Murli, and absorb the good benevolent vibes the Spirit was radiating (and even this, was my imagination??).

In fact, since this is a matter of faith that possibly has no definite answer, the point I am interested in making and the question I would like to ask is:
  • would it be worth discussing the possibility that BKs are under some kind of "suggestion" when they unmistakably see such differences happening?
Last june, Tinydot wrote:is there something wrong with me? Or perhaps BKs are hallucinating, tired or conditioned to believe that there will be bodily changes in Gulzar when BapDada comes in.
Could it be a collective hysteria or hallucination? Based on my personal experience, let me hint that when we are young in Gyan, we often nod to even nonsensical stuff other people say and start to convince ourselves of things because being incredulous is equal to being a traitor, and we want to assure others that we belong to the clan. This practise, in time, becomes a habit that leads us again into the deep darkness of blind faith.

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Re: What was that? ( ... Meeting in Madhuban with Bap-Dada)

Post by celticgyan » 11 Apr 2008

Didi was in London wasn't she? I think I remember her vaguely in 1978 or so in Kilburn. Indian Sister. Or was that Sudesh? What happened to Aden - I remember him well.

It seems to me that there is a small problem here with this channeling thing. Brahma Baba (or the PBK guy) never channeled in the Medium sense (or trance sense). He was awake all the time whereas Gullzar Dadi goes to sleep and has to be read the Murli after. If she was faking it surely she would go the whole hog and just pretend to be awake like Baba. As to what this is - it is probably an intelligence of some sort, non-human that dwells outside of the physical. To use 'they' may appear like Gods but they are probably more Alien (or were Alien) before they became pure energy. Like the "Q" continuuum in Star-Trek!! I expect they tell of a cycle and such like because the Chariot is a Hindu and has a cycle in her religion. What we really need is a Science Chariot. Have you noticed how Science is hardly ever mentioned? Instead we get this Water Fire Air Earth routine which is medieval in nature. The ancient alchemists used to believe anything could be made in such a way - even gold. Now we have the periodic table and an evolved intelligence would know this - they are holding back!
They are of course kidding when they talk of such things - they must think we have the intellect of children. Of course the other possibility is that channeling is just pschitsophrenia of some sort. This is probably the simplest explanation of all!
It is fascinating though and the main reason I went - to try and dig up the true source. I found it more interesting than just the knowledge itself - ie the mechanism from which it comes. as has been pointed out there are numerous other such channelers around with similar messages. They all get their share of followers and I can see why. It is the faint hope that they may be in fact real!! I expect the Biblical people were similar - pschitsophrenic messages of a sort.
Or are they??
In the early years at the Edinburgh centre I met a fellow engineer who had been going for many more years than me.I asked him if this was God. He replied - yes - but not THE God!


C.

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Re: What was that? ( ... Meeting in Madhuban with Bap-Dada)

Post by enlightened » 11 Apr 2008

Bhog message –
Sister Mohini at Global Harmony House
Thursday April 10th, 2008

Om Shanti

This morning there was this thought we are Shiv Kanya (daughters of Shiva) and there was a beautiful feeling. Baba accepted Bhog and Baba said that each one should remember: Who am I. It was a pure spiritual experience and feeling of pure unlimited love. Each one should think: Who am I. And your qualities will emerge. When you think I am Shiv Kanya, Brahma Kumari and Raj Yogi, this will bring thoughts and feelings of experiences. There is lot of joy and happiness in thinking whom I belong to and for whom I am doing. I belong to Baba and I belong to the elevated clan. Baba used the word clan. Clan means generation after generation. Culture comes from Godly clan. I have to check: Are my thoughts divine? Clan reminds us of our values and manners e.g families want their image to continue in the different generations
First, I belong to Baba
Second, I belong to the Brahmin clan
Third, Royalty in manners comes according to the clan
I belong to BapDada, to God and because of that there is the unlimited family. Baba says: there are three words:
Attitude
Pravitri – that is duties & responsibility
Nirvriti – free from attitude

Even after you are doing actions, check how is your attitude whilst in actions. Baba gave the example of the incense stick and the fragrant flower. Fragrance from flower is like our attitude being the fragrance of love etc. Attitude comes into my actions. Whilst doing actions, my attitude should be pure and my vriti should not be involved.
Some have attachment. When our vriti gets involved it is like holding something in our attitude. There should be detachment, love and spirituality and our pravriti will increase.
Our attitude should be full with purity. Baba remembered the Dadis, people go to the Dadis with different situations but it doesn’t affect the Dadis or their Yoga or even their classes. Dadi Gulzar said that these situations etc will happen and her attitude is detached and loving, she has the fragrance of love and purity. Personality of our vibrations should be filled with fragrance of purity and spirituality
The family will grow bigger but I have to be detached but have love and our vibrations should be flowing.
Om Shanti


Who is speaking here in this Bhog message?

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Re: What was that? ( ... Meeting in Madhuban with Bap-Dada)

Post by yogi108 » 11 Apr 2008

First let me try to answer the who speaks in the Bhog message.. obviously its sister mohini..

I once had a chance to chat with DJ in an airport and asked her how is it that the Bhog message is so clear and for eg words spoken by Bap-Dada, or Jagdish etc are like flowing from either her or any other Bhog messenger..

Her answer was that it flows because its real!!!.. I did not have any other questions...

To answer what actually happens in Madhuban....

I remember one of my visits with my two kids and wife to meet BapDada.. and was always worried about what if my junior who was like 3.5 years starts to scream and run around and things like that how will i be able to listen the Murli experience god etc....

Well the little kid was playing and singing songs etc.. and just when Bap-Dada entered DG.. he went to sleep.... even while i had to go and receive the one second drishti on stage....

I actually did not feel anything during the Murli except that this feeling of Bap-Dada saying I know you and You can become like me.. thats about it.... even though i was expecting the huge wave of power to hit me and stuff like that it didnt happen... Apparently my wife got a smile from Bap-Dada when she went on stage.. and she continues to thrive on that single smile...

But after the meeting we were walking around it suddenly hit me as if this guy or spirit or who ever it was was somebody i have known from a long-long time ago... really fitting into the long lost now found children stuff....

And I was missing the energy....

I do not really worry too much into whether its Brahma baba or Shiva or anything else.. but then it did give me an opportunity to experience something that has never happened before and probably will never...

Yogi

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Re: What was that? ( ... Meeting in Madhuban with Bap-Dada)

Post by celticgyan » 11 Apr 2008

Yes, the 69000 dollar question that I would love to know the answer to!! We all would. That it is God-like to us there is no doubt. However, we would appear like Gods to stone-age man (though we would flash more technology at them I do admit). As for end of the world, 5000 year cycles and dire warnings, he is pulling your chain! Don't let that stop us listening though since we may learn a lot. I do think that it has as much to do with the "Chariot" as the intelligence though. Although Gulzar Dadi is very "pure" in her thinking, what does that mean in a Scientific sense? We are biological beings and to have impure thoughts are as natural as going to the toilet. Any intelligence would know that. If there is one thing that the BKs have taught us and that is to become leaders and not followers. We must question all the time - yes, even this knowledge.However, this intelligence looks like a benevolant teacher of some sort. I believe the other stuff is Gulzars mind chipping in here and there. I would be more convinced if they told us something we don't know in Scientific terms. eg a cure for cancer or a type of cancer, some unknown physics etc etc That would be the clincher for me, a God would have to know these things!
I have children and when they ask questions I like it a lot. Better than them just sitting and accepting everything that is thrown at them.
...........................
I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides. [Carl Sagan, 1996 in his article In the Valley of the Shadow Parade Magazine Also, Billions and Billions p. 215]

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