Identical World Events every 5K "Godly" year-units

Mainly DEDICATED to Ex-BKs.
A neutral forum for congenial discussions and reservations related to the Godly Knowledge between ALL parties.
User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Science and The Cycle

Post by fluffy bunny » 01 Sep 2006

Hi.

The usual Cycle busting science question ; Death of a Star.
For the first time, scientists have observed the spectacular death of a massive star in real time. The supernova lasted for nearly 40 minutes, NASA's Swift satellite was able to turn its lens towards the explosion to observe the star's slow death. The burst occurred in February when a massive star, located 440 million light years away in the Aries constellation, collapsed.
The speed of light is constant and a measurable fact. So what they are saying is that this event actualy took place 440 million years ago. Whether it did or did not ... we know that the star existed there before February.

So, how does the star get put back there for the same time next cycle?

User avatar
tinydot
ex-BK
Posts: 304
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Identical World Events every 5K "Godly" year-units

Post by tinydot » 13 Dec 2006

What does an identical WORLD cycle really imply? It cannot be a fact. It's only a belief. We would never know the truth about it. And there is no need to know. There is no need to defend that which cannot be proven. It has been told to us by Shiva/Brahma. Just take its face value about it! Well, the fact is, events may be similar.

Our freedom to choose had already happened last cycle. Is this the BK line of thinking? Whether it is understood correctly or not, it breeds the feelings of helplessness, arrogance and inequality, and it raises the question of being free at all. It doesn't really solve the issue of freewill assuming it exists. If you believe in predetermination, please, oh please, do not preach the value of freewill.

If souls were equal then there are equal chances of becoming great/ungreat, of becoming kings/subjects relative to the infinite number of events. Similar reasoning of flipping a coin a thousand times, proves that head (or tail) comes out close to 50%. You may be a subject in the Golden Age many times, but in the eternal periodic world events after every major world renewal/catastrophe, you can become an emperor some time. There is no need to think of being punished by Dharamraj. There is no need to think of subtle punishment. You reap the effects of your actions in this life and in your next life. That is already your punishment. We are being continuously re-numbered depending on how we live our present life. That is absolute justice in my perspective.

Why do we say that the World Drama is perfect and beneficial at every step, when we cannot physically settle the karmic effects of our own actions at the time of destruction? We then passed it on to the "catch-all" theory of subtle punishment to resolve the unfairness we see in the physical settlement, and then we apply the fixing of our numbers in Paramdham. Is this the truth BKs convinced themselves in. I can smell some form of arrogance in this. I'd like to think all souls (those pure points of beings) are equal on every footings. Numberwise is true in a relative way. We are numberwise relative to the previous world ages.

Well, that's only my opinion but I am comfortable to hold on to my beliefs about it and I have bet my life and principles on it. There is nothing really to worry and be jealous about who gets the bigger slice of pie this time. We have equal chances of being great in the infinite number of world events. WE ARE EQUALS, HEADS AND TAILS OF THE SAME COIN!!!

~tinydot

User avatar
john
Reforming BK
Posts: 1606
Joined: 03 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: UK

Post by john » 13 Dec 2006

Yes, if you say all are equal. then still some choose to be bad and some choose to be good. Tell a criminal about spiritual principles and he will most probably laugh in your face. Every soul has an equal chance to seek out goodness, spirituality, God, but they don't, so there you get the inequality.

If the Law of Karma is true, then it is an undeniable law, a principle of life, which through rebirth we forget about and through spiritual birth we are reminded of. Shiva doesn't make the law he just reminds us of it and explains the implications and consequences, then we choose to believe or not.

To me the identical cycle of 5,000 is the only way there can be an absolute truth, because nothing can be changed and therefore what is told by Shiva can be absolutely true.

User avatar
tinydot
ex-BK
Posts: 304
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Post by tinydot » 13 Dec 2006

John wrote:Yes, if you say all are equal. then still some choose to be bad and some choose to be good. Tell a criminal about spiritual principles and he will most probably laugh in your face. Every soul has an equal chance to seek out goodness, spirituality, God, but they don't, so there you get the inequality.
Honestly ... I don't see really a criminal. I see a soul. And this soul will play a role of being great as we see the eternal infinite spiral of events. Please don't expect him to be a criminal next cycle, :-).

I disagree with the Christian point of view of eternal damnation which is the same as being a criminal in a prison every cycle.

User avatar
john
Reforming BK
Posts: 1606
Joined: 03 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: UK

Post by john » 13 Dec 2006

I don't see really a criminal.

That is very noble. When a criminal rapes or kills a member of your family, will you still feel so noble?
Please don't expect him to be a criminal next cycle, :-)
Well they did it last cycle, so why do they do it again?
I disagree with the Christian point of view of eternal damnation which is the same as being a criminal in a prison every cycle.
Yes that is good, but no one outside of spiritual life will listen to you, so therefore will continue on there own path. Because you have listened to this knowledge you now at least have some kind of choice, whether you take it, believe it or not is different.

I feel the important thing is to keep trying to understand knowledge on a deeper level and also a more practical level, if we don't understand properly , how can we put the principles into our daily life...OK someone may be able to for a while, but old sanskars will spring back without proper understanding and continued effort.

User avatar
mr green
ex-BK
Posts: 1100
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Post by mr green » 13 Dec 2006

I take a slightly different view on knowledge John, but similar too in that I don't think there is any 'depth' to it, looking for the jewels or churning the butter is all just religious masturbation

Read the Murlis, see what's good for you take it in your life and move on, one of the obvious proofs that the BKWSU is a religion is the fact they encourage you to pour over the same texts day in day out in a religious way ... over and over so you develop the idea that if you do this enough you wil change or become 'pure'.

No different to reciteing the Koran over and over.

My point is, and off topic I know, to just assimilate the knowledge that has meaning for you in a simple way, forget all this extrapalation and dissection. It's just the life of a pundit and serves only to harden the ego.

Just my opinion :lol:

User avatar
john
Reforming BK
Posts: 1606
Joined: 03 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: UK

Post by john » 13 Dec 2006

Mr Green wrote:My point is and off topic I know, is just assimilate the knowledge that has meaning for you in a simple way, forget all this extrapalation and dissection, it's just the life of a pundit and serves only to harden the ego.
Yes I think it is a good idea to take from the knowledge what has meaning to oneself. I think the knowledge as revealed by BKSWU is just the start, the basic foundation. Looking into the BKSWU after a long absence I can see there has been no developements in the level of knowledge. I was expecting to find great revelations, but found none that I hadn't known about before, decades ago.

I think all the developements in knowledge are coming from the PBKs.

User avatar
tinydot
ex-BK
Posts: 304
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Post by tinydot » 13 Dec 2006

John wrote:That is very noble. When a criminal rapes or kills a member of your family, will you still feel so noble? Well, they did it last cycle, so why do they do it again?
Let's get things straight pertaining to world events. Cyclic concept is not a fact, it is a belief. Spiral concept is a fact. I am happy to get out from the jail of cyclic thinking. BK cyclic concept though helped me in the refinement of my beliefs and relationship with the Supreme.

Yes, I would feel mad at the rapist and will bring him to legal justice. But I will hold on to my belief that the original nature of a soul is pure, and that doesn't exclude the rapist. He chose to be bad this lifetime, but the question is, could he have chosen to be good? The answer is yes. The possibility exists. If you say no because he had chosen the same act last cycle, then how can we get out from the chicken and egg idea. If we go deeper, we realize that he chose that rape act because that is part of his soul. Then how could the soul be considered pure? And then please don't have the slightest impression that my sister was raped because "(s)he (in the previous birth) raped someone else. And who committed the first rape, Brahma?

I feel we have to open up our minds with other good possibilities. The only way to have a vision of equality of souls is to accept the eternal spiral nature of time.
Yes that is good, but no one outside of spiritual life will listen to you, so therefore will continue on there own path. Because you have listened to this knowledge you now at least have some kind of choice, whether you take it, believe it or not is different.
Doesn't bother me at all. I am out of religious way of thinking, including the BK concept of time.

Mr. Green ... you made me laugh!

~tinydot

User avatar
john
Reforming BK
Posts: 1606
Joined: 03 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: UK

Post by john » 13 Dec 2006

Let's get things straight pertaining to world events. Cyclic concept is not a fact, it is a belief. Spiral concept is a fact.
What do you mean spiral concept is a fact?
Yes, I would feel mad at the rapist and will bring him to legal justice. But I will hold on to my belief that the original nature of a soul is pure, and that doesn't exclude the rapist. He chose to be bad this lifetime, but the question is, could he have chosen to be good? The answer is yes. The possibility exists.

If you say no because he had chosen the same act last cycle, then how can we get out from the chicken and egg idea. If we go deeper, we realize that he chose that rape act because that is part of his soul. Then how could the soul be considered pure?
As you say the original nature of the soul is pure. That doesn't mean it will always remain pure. the potential rapist in his pure original state would not rape somebody only later on in his degraded form would this happen.
And then please don't have the slightest impression that my Sister was raped because "(s)he (in the previous birth) raped someone else. And who committed the first rape, Brahma?
No, actually I never said that, maybe some BK said it to you, but I never did.
I feel we have to open up our minds with other good possibilities. The only way to have a vision of equality of souls is to accept the eternal spiral nature of time.
But if someone doesn't consider it to be true why should they accept it.
Doesn't bother me at all. I am out of religious way of thinking, including the BK concept of time.
Yes, you should believe what you feel is right, but that doesn't stop the possiblilty of the cyclic nature of time being true, however many people disbelieve it.

User avatar
tinydot
ex-BK
Posts: 304
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Post by tinydot » 13 Dec 2006

John,

Jagdish book "Eternal Drama" part two has the concept of spiral nature of time. He tried to disproved it by associating it with linear concept. Though, I don't agree with his line of thinking.

Yes, you never said that "She raped someone ...", I apologized for misunderstanding. I am refering to "impression (non verbal)", which I take to the BK line of thinking in general.

The concept of exact cyclic global events every cycle can be true but it can never be a fact. I sleep everyday but not at the same clock time and in different positions. That is the concept of spiral nature of time.

~tinydot

User avatar
tinydot
ex-BK
Posts: 304
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Post by tinydot » 15 Dec 2006

John wrote:As you say the original nature of the soul is pure. That doesn't mean it will always remain pure. the potential rapist in his pure original state would not rape somebody only later on in his degraded form would this happen.
Degradation of quality (physcal or moral) is a fact. But there is no reason to believe that the SAME VERY ACT will happen at the SAME POINT IN TIME and LOCATION next Kalpa. What if the rapist's car tire got flat along the road and my younger sister had already flown to India? He would then rape my sister's twin (my youngest sister). And there you go ... the spiral nature of time.

We observe the spiral nature of time in every activity of any living beings. Why then do make a leap of faith in favor of the exactness cyclic nature of time?

User avatar
tinydot
ex-BK
Posts: 304
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Post by tinydot » 15 Dec 2006

I have no idea ...

If that can happen to our own sun, we see how the concept of non-total annihilation of the world cannot be true at all in the literal sense.

We don't know for sure if all stars die ... I hope not. Even if the sun dies, I believe that energy has an intrinsic property of salvaging its lowest form and organizing itself into complicated structure. We know that the space background is at 4 degrees Kelvin. Any form of perturbation or organization in space creates a slightly lower temperature background within the vicinity of the organized structure. We observed 3 degrees Kelvin in the lab.

My only guess is the interplay of material particles in space is eternal and completely reversible. Though a lot of scientists still believes that the second law of thermodynamics to hold true in the cosmic level.

User avatar
celtiggyan
ex-BK
Posts: 40
Joined: 04 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: New Zealand

Post by celtiggyan » 16 Dec 2006

It is not really known that the speed of light is a constant throught the Universe since it has never been measured elsewhere - but we assume it is. However, your point about the cycle. In this Universe things cannot repeat - of course not. The only way it could happen would be if there was some form of parallel Universe where we transfer onto! Either that or we live in a Matrix (i.e. like the film)!

C

User avatar
mr green
ex-BK
Posts: 1100
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Post by mr green » 17 Dec 2006

One of the bk's favourite arguments for 'proving' that things repeat was the idea of deja vu, they said this is the soul remembering the last time.

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Post by fluffy bunny » 17 Dec 2006

tinydot wrote:Jagdish book "Eternal Drama" part two has the concept of spiral nature of time. He tried to disproved it by associating it with linear concept. Though, I don't agree with his line of thinking.
I was looking at a romanesque cauliflower, click for link, yesterday and was inspired by the spirals nature of it; how one spiral breaks up into minor spirals in a fractal like manner.

Then thinking of the nature of shells and the Golden Ratio which again is a spiral, knowing that it is found all through biology. Where do simple Cycles fit in nature apart from mechanical functions? I am not a scientist soul so I make no claims in this department. The lazy mind craves simplicity but I have to believe that reality, even spiritual realities, is a lot more extensive.

Image

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests