BKWSO commence legal action against BrahmaKumaris.Info

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eromain
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Post by eromain » 14 Sep 2007

Well, nobody in the hierarchy has thought it necessary to set up an inquiry which, among other things, could establish why the Abu and London Seniors did nothing to remove the Madhubaniwassi paedophile when they had the chance.

Personally, I think that is an important question and until it is answered it wont go away.

Perhaps there is a good reason - although I cant think of one, I am kind of limited that way - I can only think of really bad reasons. Must be my inherent negativity.

Hansa action is the latest in something of a line of shameful actions.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 14 Sep 2007

eromain wrote:Well, nobody in the hierarchy has thought it necessary to set up an inquiry which, among other things, could establish why the Abu and London Seniors did nothing to remove the Madhubaniwassi paedophile when they had the chance ... Hansa's action is the latest in something of a line of shameful actions.

Wasn't there a problem in the New Delhi center as well? Was that the same center that the suicide happened at where the sister in charge just locked the door, going off to offer and serve Bhog before dealing with it after? How much of this is true? I heard that one actually was pulled up in Mount Abu. Why doesn't such a large corporation not have an established procedure to handle such issues?
  • And what is the rational to defending such individuals? Money? Contacts? Because it only cant be virginity.
The other problem is, they have been so keen in their land grab of the Western world that they have sending out anybodies to start centers, or parachuting in Indian sisters, without providing proper training, screening or a system of corporate accountability.

I mean to say, let's give the leadership some leeway ... how much about Hansa do they really know? (Or any other teacher for that matter).
  • Look at the account they gave about how service in the USA started.
I thought in principle the sisters in charge of centers should be kunyas (virgins) to ensure they were "pure vessels" (my words).

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Post by admin » 14 Sep 2007

The following letter has been received from the National Arbitration Forum
September 14, 2007

Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual Organization
c/o Kelly R. McCarty
1111 Louisiana Street, 25th Floor
Houston, TX 77002

RE: Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual Organization v [brahmakumaris.info]
File Number: FA0709001075486

Dear Sir/Madam:

The above referenced domain name complaint has been received by the National Arbitration Forum and the above file number assigned. However, in reviewing your complaint the Forum has identified the following deficiencies:

• Amend the complaint to properly identify the Respondent and its contact information using the current WHO IS page for reference.

In order for the Forum to proceed with the arbitration of this case, you are required to rectify the deficiencies within 5 calendar days from the date of this notification, or the complaint will be dismissed without prejudice as required by ICANN's UDRP Rule 4(b). Please note that a revised copy will also need to be sent to the Respondent.

If more than 5 calendar days are needed to correct deficiencies, Forum Supplemental Rule 12(a) provides for withdrawal and reinstatement within 30 calendar days, subject to a reinstatement fee. Please note that a request to withdraw under Supp. Rule 12(a)(i) must be received by the Forum before the end of the 5 day deficiency period.

Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any questions.


Sincerely,


M... K S...
Case Coordinator
The follow reply was sent;
brahmakumaris.info wrote:14 Sept 2007

M...


Thank you for your letter.

To date we have had no indication about the nature or cause for this dispute or who the complainant actually is.

We have received notification from the office of an international director of the Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University, who works directly with the Global Head in India, that the organization is not proceeding with a domain dispute.

We are concerned to confirm at the soonest opportunity, that the individual concerned has license from the original property right owners, or the BKWSU either regionally or internationally, to be acting as their agent and that this is not merely a personally motivated malicious attack of the nature our support forum has suffered before from supporters of the director of the Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual Organization of San Antonio.


Thank you

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Deficiency Check for Administrative Compliance?

Post by abrahma kumar » 14 Sep 2007

Again thanks for keeping us informed. It looks like the dispute is in Stage 2: Deficiency Check for Administrative Compliance ...?

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Post by admin » 14 Sep 2007

The following email was sent to;

Kelly McCarty mccartyk@howrey.com
Dustin Edwards edwardsdustin@howrey.com

of Howrey LLP, Houston Texas


attorneys at law acting for Ms Hansa Raval.
14 Sep 07

Madam/Sir,


We are informed by our Domain Dispute Case Coordinator Supervisor at the National Arbitration Forum that, as we have not received the initial copy of the domain name dispute your client has filed, we should request a copy from you.

Would you please forward an electronic copy by return outlining the dispute?


Thank you.


http://brahmakumaris.info

cc NAF

On 14/9/07 19:01, "S..., M..." wrote:

------ Forwarded Message

> Dear [respondent]-
>
> You currently do not have any deadlines imposed upon you. You have
> simply been copied on all correspondence between National Arbitration
> Forum and Complainant. Complainant has 5 days within which to rectify
> its deficiencies. Once the deficiencies are rectified, you will be
> given the opportunity to respond.
>
> Complainant should have already forwarded the initial copy of the
> complaint to you. If that has not yet happened, you may request a copy
> directly from the Complainant.
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> M... S...
> Domain Dispute Case Coordinator Supervisor
> National Arbitration Forum
> PO Box 50191
> Minneapolis, MN 55405

------ End of Forwarded Message

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Post by tinydot » 15 Sep 2007

So the BKWSU would have to rectify its complaint deficiency by September 19. Let's see what they are gonna do.

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Post by admin » 15 Sep 2007

On September 14th, Hansa Raval, on behalf of the Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual Organization of San Antonio Texas, have filed their amended dispute giving us 20 days in which to respond. As time allows, full details will be posted. The full process should take no more than 2 months.

The complaint is being made on the ground that the BKWSO San Antonio Texas owns trademarks for Brahma Kumaris, BKWSU and Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University which have been applied for in June 2007 and asserts a common law claim on the same trademarks. The complaint does not note that these trademarks have not been granted nor that they will not be automatically granted be by the USPTO.

She claims that the BKWSO does not wish to restrict or censor our freedom of speech in any way. Throughout the complaint it refers to the BKWSU's "products and services" and repeatedly accuses us of operating the website for commercial gain. It is based on;
  • • inappropriately suggesting that BrahmaKumaris.Info is an organization consisting of "associates of" BKWSU
    • using the domain for financial gain by publishing weblinks to other websites that are "unrelated to Complainant's goods and services
    • "more importantly" containing links to "direct competitors" such as PBK whose official name is Adhyathmik Ishwaria Vishwa Vidyalaya
    • that we are misleadingly diverting consumers and tarnishing the trademark ... redirecting users to websites that offer unrelated products and solicit donations, subscriptions and advertising space
    • that our use of the domain is for commercial gain
    • that we have made false allegations of rape, murder, suicide, broken families and undue influence attributing them to the complainant's organization
    • allows users to post defamatory and offensive statements
    • attempting to destroy the complainant's goodwill
    • that this domain was registered primarily for the purpose of disrupting the charitable work of the BKWSO
We are using this opportunity to consult with other members of the forum on how they consider this dispute ought be handled.

We would like to ask those individuals that are actively in contact with their local BKWSU center, to draw this dispute to their attention and make their sentiments clear whether they feel it is reflects positively on the nature of the BKWSU or not.

We suggest that the issues at state here are not merely freedom of speech nor what the BKWSO of Texas feel about our use of the domain name but the much broader issues of rights, ownership and accountability, the nature of the relationships between the various leaderships and organizational structures with the ad hoc Brahmin "Godly" Family.

It suggests that there is a very clear division between those that consider it is a business and those that consider it is a religious path or spiritual family.

Thank you

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Post by john » 15 Sep 2007

Fight them guns ablazing and try and go for some publicity over their antics!

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Post by mr green » 15 Sep 2007

I am flabberghasted, really shocked at this depth of dishonesty and blind ignorance.

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Storm

Post by proy » 15 Sep 2007

ex-l wrote:eromain singles me out and I am uncomfortable with that. firstly, I am not alone in what I do.
Very far from alone. Many of us have been holding back. The storm is coming now. :evil:
Leonard Cohen wrote:I cannot run no more
with that lawless crowd
while the killers in high places
say their prayers out loud.
But they've summoned, they've summoned up
a thundercloud
and they're going to hear from me.
eromain wrote:Well, nobody in the hierarchy has thought it necessary to set up an inquiry which, among other things, could establish why the Abu and London Seniors did nothing to remove the Madhubaniwassi paedophile when they had the chance.
We were told a story during morning class once by the sister in charge of the centre. She said there was a brother who worked in the art department at Gyan Sarovar. The place where they sell photos of Lekhraj Kirpalani and the Dadis to the faithful. She said he was stealing half the money, and putting the other half in the till. As she said, "One for Baba, one for me".

He was found out and told off by the sister who deals with discipline at Madhuban. But they operate a "Three strikes and you are out" policy. So he went back to his job. He was caught doing the same thing the second time. He got a worse telling off, and went back to his job. The third time he got sent away from Madhuban and back to his own local centre. Nothing more. No police. No being put out of the "family".

The sister who told us the story said a Madhubaniwassi BK would have to do something really terrible three times before there was any real disciplinary action taken, and that this was very rare. Maybe the pedophile was allowed to get away with it three times too, then only sent back to his home town as punishment?

With these guidelines this is Hansa's second strike as far as I know.

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What's it all about ...?

Post by abrahma kumar » 15 Sep 2007

What a joke ... if only it weren't so goddamn serious!
The complaint does not note that these trademarks have not been granted nor that they will not be automatically granted by the USPTO.

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Post by arjun » 15 Sep 2007

Complainant BKHansaRawal wrote:• inappropriately suggesting that BrahmaKumaris.Info is an organization consisting of "associates of" BKWSU
All past and present members of BKWSU are associates of BKWSU because first of all the official literature of BKWSU says that, "once a BK always a BK". Secondly, BKWSU does not award any written certificate or document to any of its members at the time of joining or at the time of leaving. So, how can they label someone as their associate or ex-members?

And have they not observed the growing number of BK members of this site? Do they consider them to be the members of their family or do they want to label them also as opponents?
Complainant BKHansaRawal wrote:• using the domain for financial gain by publishing weblinks to other websites that are "unrelated to Complainant's goods and services
• that we are misleadingly diverting consumers and tarnishing the trademark ... redirecting users to websites that offer unrelated products and solicit donations, subscriptions and advertising space
• that our use of the domain is for commercial gain
I don't see any proof of any financial gain by the Administration of this site by publishing weblinks. Mostly it is the members who quote weblinks for the benefit of other members and they are well within their rights to do so. If the complainant has any proof of financial gain by the Admin. or any other member, they should provide proofs for the same.
Complainant BKHansaRawal wrote:• "more importantly" containing links to "direct competitors" such as PBK whose official name is Adhyathmik Ishwaria Vishwa Vidyalaya
Before becoming jealous of weblinks to PBKs on this site, they should feel grateful that the weblinks to the BK sites have also been provided on this site besides the BK Section of the discussion forum where they can propagate their ideas freely. Can they show any of their site where they have provided weblink to this site or any PBK site?

Leave alone providing weblink to PBKs or BKInfo on their site, they have been banning anyone who disagrees with their philosophy both practically and on the internet. Can any PBK even imagine to propagate the PBK philosophy on any of the sites/forums of BKs?
Complainant BKHansaRawal wrote: • that we have made false allegations of rape, murder, suicide, broken families and undue influence attributing them to the complainant's organization
Mostly such news has been published here by various members based on news reports. When they do not have any objection to the electroic/print media publishing false stories about BKWSU, then why should they worry about any such news being published here. If they have been absolved by the Courts of any such charges, they are very much welcome to share such information with us here. The negative publicity of BKWSU about the incidents that took place in Panipat (Haryana) and Hubli (Karnataka) went on for a considerably long period in the print and electronic media. Did the BKWSU sue any of them for having published/broadcast those news reports?
Complainant BKHansaRawal wrote:• that this domain was registered primarily for the purpose of disrupting the charitable work of the BKWSO
BKWSU has been provided enough space in the BKSection of this forum to publicise their charitable work, if any. In fact one such thread already exists, which has contributions mainly from their so-called opponents, the PBKs. In fact, most of the positive news/information about the BKWSU has been posted in the BK Section by such opponents including ex-BKs.
Complainant BKHansaRawal wrote:• allows users to post defamatory and offensive statements
Does the complainant wants to see the defamatory and offensive statements made by the BKWSU about the PBKs through their official email ID? I have not quoted those statements for the past two and a half years just to maintain the goodwill of BKWSU in the eyes of the world because I know that most of the BKs are good/better than me.

Statements which are much more defamatory than the statements made by the members of this forum have been posted about BKWSU and its founder (Dada Lekhraj alias Brahma Baba) by the followers of ISKCON in their official discussion forum many months ago. Why was BKWSU silent about it at that time?
Complainant BKHansaRawal wrote:• attempting to destroy the complainant's goodwill
As regards their goodwill being lost through this site, I don't know how much of it has been lost so far, but it would be lost to a greater extent if they continue to pursue the legal proceedings against this site.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by fluffy bunny » 15 Sep 2007

I would just like to say that "truth" in the hands of many attorneys is like "love" in the hands of a prostitute.

You can pay for the beautiful, expensive, skillfull callgirl in the world ... just do not fool yourself what you were getting was "love" when you get the bill at the end of it! But, yes, you are correct Arjun to quote the good Colonel Hansa Raval because when an attorney makes statements it is as if the clients saying it themselves. The confusion is, was it Hansa Raval or was it the BKWSO ... is Hansa the BKWSO of San Antonio ... perhaps there is some attachment here confusing issues.

What I am wondering is whether these specific attorneys exercised a reasonable standard of care whilst performing any acts that could foreseeably harm others ... at least as far as checking whether she had the rights she claimed she had.

In the combative American legal system, the attorney's job is to win at whatever cost, not investigate what it right and according to the law as in other legislature. I wonder if the wrong address was negligence, or just a trick so the moderators would never get to hear about the proceeding to defend it? There is a whole series of trickery some attorney's use over the timing, or deliberate mistiming, of the delivery of proceedings.
  • How much of Baba's money do we think has been spent so far, or was it her own?

    If it was her own money that paid for it, was it Baba's (vis-a-vis the BKWSO) proceedings ... or her own proceedings?

    If it was her own proceedings, then is she not guilty of using the BKWSO for her own interests and ends? How is that judged?

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Post by bansy » 15 Sep 2007

Maybe it is also worth reminding the TV producer who was thinking of making a cult documentary to watch this space.

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Post by bkdimok » 16 Sep 2007

Om Shanti. Sorry I have no time to read all posts of this topic (a lot of service on festival).

Can someone tell me who is participating in this case from BKWSU side and who is in charge there?

With regards, Shankar.

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