BKWSO commence legal action against BrahmaKumaris.Info

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fluffy bunny
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Re: The Gift

Post by fluffy bunny » 11 Sep 2007

proy wrote:Also, how can "Brahma Kumari" be copyright, given what it means?
Speak of the Devil ... The following trademarks have been filed by the BKWSU in the USA on 21 June 2007. This further frames Jayanti's and the IT Team's actions. I imagine they are attempting to use these in their legal action against ANY site containing elements of the various names.

Personally, I think trademarking "Brahma Kumaris" is on a par with trademarking "Buddhist" ... are they a business with a product or a religion? Can anyone be bothered enough to challenging these? I would say that a challenge to Brahma Kumari has a good chance of succeeding if done quickly. BK they can have because it belongs to Burger King!!! A McDonalds-like chain of beef burger shops. Blue links lead to public records.

Note well;
  • "Provision of spiritual sacred text, specifically termed Murlis or Murli classes, for meditation students" and

    "operating an online shopping site in the field of spirituality and meditation"
United States Patent and Trademark Office wrote:Word Mark: BRAHMA KUMARIS

Goods and Services: IC 016. US 002 005 022 023 029 037 038 050. G & S:
  • Books and printed publications in the nature of magazines, newsletters, booklets, pamphlets and brochures, all relating to spiritual and meditation issues; stationery; printed instructional and teaching material featuring spiritual and meditation issues. Provision of spiritual sacred text, specifically termed Murlis or Murli classes, for meditation students
IC 035. US 100 101 102. G & S:
  • Provision of advertising space by electronic means and global information networks; publication of advertising matter for others via the internet, specifically websites; operating an online shopping site in the field of spirituality and meditation
Standard Characters Claimed
Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
Serial Number 77212153
Filing Date: June 21, 2007
Current Filing Basis: NO FILING BASIS
Original Filing Basis : NO FILING BASIS
Owner (APPLICANT): Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual Organization CORPORATION TEXAS 710 Marquis San Antonio TEXAS 78216
Type of Mark TRADEMARK. SERVICE MARK
Register: PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator: LIVE
United States Patent and Trademark Office wrote:Word Mark BKWSU

Goods and Services:
  • IC 035. US 100 101 102. G & S: Provision of advertising space by electronic means and global information networks; editing and publication of advertising matter for others via the internet, specifically websites; operating an online shopping site in the field of spirituality and meditation
Standard Characters Claimed
Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
Serial Number 77212547
Filing Date: June 21, 2007
Current Filing Basis NO FILING BASIS
Original Filing Basis NO FILING BASIS
Owner: (APPLICANT) Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual Organization CORPORATION TEXAS 710 Marquis San Antonio TEXAS 78216
Type of Mark: SERVICE MARK
Register: PRINCIPAL-2(F)
Live/Dead Indicator: LIVE
United States Patent and Trademark Office wrote:Word Mark:BRAHMA KUMARIS WORLD SPIRITUAL UNIVERSITY

Goods and Services IC 035. US 100 101 102. G & S:
  • Provision of advertising space by electronic means and global information networks; editing and publication of advertising matter for others via the internet, specifically websites; operating an online shopping site in the field of spirituality and meditation
Standard Characters Claimed
Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
Serial Number 77212561
Filing Date: June 21, 2007
Current Filing Basis NO FILING BASIS
Original Filing Basis NO FILING BASIS
Owner: (APPLICANT) Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual Organization CORPORATION TEXAS 710 Marquis San Antonio TEXAS 78216
Type of Mark: SERVICE MARK
Register: PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator: LIVE
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I think where they are mentioning "beef", they have the wrong end of the bull ...

jiri
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The BK's are finished now Heaven can come

Post by jiri » 11 Sep 2007

This forum is for truth and shiv baba. The current corrupt BK leadership is already defeated. They have no power so turn to worldly power for support.

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proy
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Funding

Post by proy » 11 Sep 2007

paulkershaw wrote:My concern is admin's funding availability in counter-defence of the BKWSO's claim?
To rent most urls is not very costly, unless they are short, neither is renting server space. I would imagine the biggest cost to admin is time. So if the site is moved it will be time and technical ability that are needed. I do not know if any legal fees are involved in the arbitration, but I would be happy to see a PayPal account established for donations to a legal fund, should that become necessary.
Bhagavad Gita wrote:yadrcchaya copapannam
svarga-dvaram apavrtam
sukhinah kshatriyah partha
labhante yuddham idrsam

"O Partha, happy are the kshatriyas to whom such fighting opportunities come unsought, opening for them the doors of the heavenly planets."
Partha is another name for Arjuna.

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Post by arjun » 11 Sep 2007

ex-l wrote:Owner: (APPLICANT) Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual Organization CORPORATION TEXAS
So, BKWSO has now become a 'Corporation'!!!!!!!!!!!!

What a business!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mortals copyrighting the knowledge given by The Immortal !!!!!

What a change - from 'Global cooperation (for a better world)' to a global 'Corporation'!!!!!

I thought ShivBaba has come to establish one world family (vasudhaiv kutumbkam)!!!!!

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by fluffy bunny » 11 Sep 2007

arjun wrote:So, BKWSO has now become a 'Corporation'!!!!!!!!!!!!
Purely for "practical" reasons I am sure, Arjun ...

They need to have some kind of legal entity to "own" the organization, its trading rights and Baba's intellectual property ... and to limit the liability of the directors, administators and trustees. That is to say, if something was to go wrong, like someone being abuse or going mad at a center, then the individual director would not be responsible. The legal entity that owns and "employs" the BKs would carry the responsibility.

What is disappointing is that they have chosen the hierarchial, exclusive corporate or business model of legal entity. This, to me, is unenlightened.

They could have chosen a "co-operative" (aka cooperative society), or a shareholder arrangement, or a commonwealth model. All of these perform the same function but give right and rewards equally to those that contribute and offer some democratic involvement of the stakeholders (those that contribute time money and other gift aids).

Obviously elsewhere, like the UK they have chosen both traditional charitable and limited companies but again overlooked more open englightened forms, e.g. company lmited by guarranty etc. It underlines to me the investment of power in chosen individuals. But who choses who? As with Dadi Janki ... is it the (nebulous) "Family" again. Who is family?

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Post by eromain » 11 Sep 2007

Can individuals such as myself make submissions to the decision-making process that is happening in two months?

I think they need to hear about the kind of support this site offers to people who have suffered one way or another from contact with the BKs
  • If it were not for this site there are people walking around today who would otherwise be dead.

    If it were not for this site there would be parents who would quite possibly have lost custody of their children.

    And if it were not for this site there would be children who's abuse would have gone undisclosed.
There is important work that happens in and around this site which needs to continue.

It is time for the many practising BKs who quietly visit this site to stand up and have their voices be heard. This is a defining time for everyone, but them in particular. In all the greyness that usually accompanies moral challenges - sometimes things are crystal clear. There is a clear choice being offered to everyone. Each one of us (and for once it is irrelevent whether one is a BK or an ex-BK) has to decide where we stand. Stand next to those trying to crush this site or stand up for its right to exist and to be called BK.info

Do those who leave or those who simply disagree have a right to have their voices heard? That is the central issue.

This site provides more information about the BKs than arguably all the other site's put together. Yes, a great deal of it is critical; and yes, some of the posters are "biased". That is their right. Just as it is the right of every BK to state their own biases. Good luck to them. What is different is that this site offers an equal opportunity for all to correct the excesses or mistakes of others. We are all biased one way or another, the difference here is that all voices can be heard. When I posted on the BK Aussie website Charlie had all my postings removed. And any attempt by me to even ask by what criteria he allowed or disallowed postings was also blocked.

If practising BKs aren't as offended by this latest act by their leaders as everyone else who visits this site, they need to ask themselves what they really stand for.

This latest event is not in anyway a challenge to those XBKs who are active on this site -we will go on doing what we are doing and it will get out there. This latest event is a challenge to every practicing BK.

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Post by sparkal » 11 Sep 2007

BKWSU are in for a hard time if there are any "BKs" taking part on this forum at all, or would that work in their favour? Brahma is not present, do they have the right to use/own the name any more than those who use this forum?

Have all BKs been consulted as, like any government, they may not have the right to take big decisions on behalf of the majority without consulting the people? They may therefore be behaving like dictators :evil:. I don't like all this and I don't like to see what I consider to be my brothers and sisters behaving like this :cry:. Where is the royalty in all of this then?

What would a BK run .info look like? Would it be acceptable to those who currently use it? :?
Are we back to protecting career Brahmins and corporate nonsense? Not very spiritual. The wheels are coming off and the vehicle is careering off the road by the looks of it.

I agree that the money would be better spent on other things, But that could be decided by having a vote among the BKWSU FAMILY :shock:. A family at war. Whose side is God on by the way? :roll:

Meanwhile, the world is falling to bits. It is time to focus on that. We all are obviously doing OK if we can afford to hang about on the web and keeping lawyers in a comfy lifestyle. :x If you are looking for me I will be out in the field offering something more worthwhile than legal ****. Lawyers? Oh boy. Courts and judges? :lol: I want a front row seat for this one. I cannot promise not to laugh at the judge :evil: though. :roll:

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Post by pilatus » 11 Sep 2007

Dear all,

Like may of you I am not surprised, merely disappointed, at the turn of events. admin has my complete trust and support and I am willing to follow any of the constructive suggestions you've all made (e.g. Paypal-backed "fighting fund", personal (non-anonymous) submission to National Arbitration Forum). I've "taken a lot of benefit" from this forum and particulary appreciated this post:
eromain wrote:I think they need to hear about the kind of support this site offers to people who have suffered one way or another from contact with the BKs
  • If it were not for this site there are people walking around today who would otherwise be dead.

    If it were not for this site there would be parents who would quite possibly have lost custody of their children.

    And if it were not for this site there would be children who's abuse would have gone undisclosed.
There is important work that happens in and around this site which needs to continue
I look forward to surmounting this challenge - it will bring us closer together and just give grist to the mill of those who have/had issues with the BKWSU approach. Our collective efforts will give us all a great sense of achievement and spread the message to a wider audience ...

Lots of love and best wishes,

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proy
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Destroying Families

Post by proy » 11 Sep 2007

eromain wrote:I think they need to hear about the kind of support this site offers to people who have suffered one way or another from contact with the BKs
This is exactly the issue. The BKWSU with their court action want to destroy this online family and deprive all the people they have abused of our active support. This comes as no surprise. The BKWSU have spent a long time and a lot of effort destroying families. They call themselves a family. I do not know how they can sleep at night. Oh, I forgot, they don't.

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Post by admin » 11 Sep 2007

At present we are still trying to establish what is going on. We have had an email from the BKWSU below stating that they are not going to file a domain name dispute and we have modified our report reflect this out of fairness. But it appears that the BKWSU have put their mail filters back on blocking out our emails again. As soon as more information is available, the forum will be informed.
Alka Patel wrote:Dear Friend,

Regarding your e-mail dated 11th September 2007 which states: 'On 12.24 pm Sept 10 2007, the BKWSU or BKWSO filed a National Arbitration Forum dispute against the registrant of the domain', we wish to inform you that the Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University has not filed any such dispute.

Regarding your e-mail of 10th September 2007, I refer you to Sister Jayanti’s e-mail dated 12 August 2007 in which she states clearly the basis for communication.

Best Regards,

Alka
We sent a reply which was bounced back as follows.
brahmakumaris.info wrote:Alka,

Sister Jayanti received our detailed response raising specific queries on 17 Aug 2007. I humbly suggest your organization works to improve relationships by engaging in a meaningful dialogue.

As regards the approach from the NAF, we can only go on the information that has been presented to us by our domain registrars and the NAF. We are waiting for further information and will revert to you as soon as we have more details in a few hours.

If an individual BK follower or BK center has made such a presentation on your behalf, I suggest that you had fully investigate the specific circumstance and get back to us before we find out. We will, of course, assist in any way we can from our position.

As is our policy, this correspondence will be shared faithfully in its original form but please allow a reasonable amount of time for us to do so.

Any required correction will be made.

Thank you.
This is a copy of the bounce message.
BKWSU mail server datacastsys.com wrote:This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:

SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<xxxxxx@BKWSU.org>:

host ap.datacastsys.com : 550 Blocked

------ This is a copy of the message, including all the headers. ------

Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 18:23:19 +0100
Subject: Test email ... Re: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender
From: "info@brahmakumaris.info" <info@brahmakumaris.info>
To: Alka Patel
If this is a genuine domain dispute, and a complainant (a BK) requests a single arbitrator to examine the case there, do not need to be any legal fees nor court proceedings. If a respondent (ourselves) request that there to be not one but three arbitrators, to ensure a broader more informed opinion, then the additional costs of $1,300 are shared between the two parties.

We have no intention of being dragged down a path that wastes such lifesaving and valuable resources. Copies of the decisions of similar cases are held, here.

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Re: The Gift

Post by uddhava » 11 Sep 2007

proy wrote: I will be interested to see how they prove to the arbitration people that the Murlis are copyright.
Will they be calling God as a witness?
ex-l wrote: What interests me is BapDada's role in all this. If he was consulted and what he said.
I would be surprised if God was involved in this decision because I think God is meant to be omniscient, whereas this seems like very bad judgment. I don't have experience of domain name law but I would guess that if this site was claiming to be run by BKWSU then that would be an unlawful use of the name, but this is clearly not the case. There is a site called God.com run by Christians so I wonder if the BKs will next claim that they have copyrighted the word 'God'. All very unedifying and ungodly. :roll:

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Post by fluffy bunny » 11 Sep 2007

May be it is not the BKWSU after all ... may be it is Burger King [tm] that are suing for the use of their trademark "BK" !!!

Or Brian Bacon for Self Management Leadership ... let's face it, the whole thing is a mess and the non-Burger Kings need to start talking to us like we were real human beings. I cant wait ...

Nice to see you back, uddhava!

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Post by bkdimok » 11 Sep 2007

Om Shanti. I wonder who initiated this case against this forum? It is not OK for BK to attack, nomatter what is happening. It is OK to defend. I suppose there will be serious talk with this bramins. Also you may not worry about future of this forum. I suppose they wont get in time to close it. In my calculation they have about 1 month before there will be great cleaning.

With regards, Shankar

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Post by mr green » 11 Sep 2007

How bizzarre can it get ... if it is them, which does seem likely let's be honest ... they are becoming a comedy, just a farce, a shambles ...

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Post by tinydot » 11 Sep 2007

This filing of trademark by BKWSU TEXAS appears to be under the jurisdiction of BK Texas in San Antonio. For everyone's information, there is a division of BK responsiblity and power in USA.
  • East Coast: Mohini Panjabi
    West Coast: Chandrika Desai
    Part of Central USA including State of Texas: Hansa Raval
Overall, Mohini is the president of the BKWSO in North America (including USA), South America and the Caribbean.

So, there you go guys, this appears to be under the jurisdiction of Hansa Raval.

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