Mbbhat's Views and Churnings

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Mbbhat's Views and Churnings

Post by mbbhat » 23 Aug 2012

I am writing my views. Aim is not to convince anyone. and also most of these are guess. But, if it becomes use to someone at least to some extent, fine.
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#Post 1
1)Initial steps of god was giving visions and make a gathering and preparing them to give knowledge. If God Shiv gives vision of himself as point, then people would not realize him. Hence for body conscious people, he gave vision of Sri Krishna through Brahma (whenever they saw Brahma, the will get vision of Krishna). and trance where they used to see heaven, etc.

So- initially God might have thought that- let children think/assume Brahma as God.
[But, i am not sure whether Brahma Baba himself felt so or said so (that i am divine Father god Prajapati) during that time. He might have just kept quiet during that time and shiv may be doing all these through him].

2)I do not know- when it was stepped from God Brahma to god shiv. Let us assume that it is around 1950. If I am wrong, anyone can express to correct.

And the concept of belief of Omnipresent till 1950 (I do not know whether this belief had been there, but from few records here in this forum, if they really had that belief)- is not much surprising to me. Because when God Shiva was introduced fully later, there was nothing taught to them how to remember Shiv, what difference would be there if God is thought as omnipresent?

And "Aham Brahmaasmi, I am god, everyone is god" concept- is- giving respect to self as well as to all. Actually, there is benefit in this. One will not do sin (if he sticks rightly to this belief). But, of course, he also cannot progress, because there would be no Yoga with god. [so- i think this may be the reason for this concept in the beginning of Yagya]

Here i have assumed that the concept of aham brahma asmi concept also existed till 1950. If I am wrong, it can be informed.
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And regarding- the omnipresent concept- Did BKs thought just to the extent that everyone is god or did they had belief that god exists in every atom? - anyone can throw light.
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A note:- Initially Baba had said I am akhand jyoti (the unlimited, continuous or indivisible light), then I am ling, then I am like star, then point.

Even the soul also- first it is said as thumb, then star, then point.

The reason is- if initially itself Baba would have said- I am point, children would not have understood.

Like in the lower class, students are taught- the smallest particle of matter is molecule. but later, they are told- molecule can be divided into atoms, then even an atom can be divided into proton, neutrons, and electrons. and now- they say more subatomic particles.

So- even in science- the knowledge goes on refining in some cases as invention becomes deeper.

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Re: Mbbhat's Views and Churnings.

Post by mbbhat » 23 Aug 2012

#Post 2
I think- The initial 14 years bhatti was not real bhatti (remembrance). It was just trance, silence, etc. but of course, had good emotional training, for imbibing purity. but, intellectually, no much high level.
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SM 11-9-77(2):- Tumko is antim janm may hee tamopradhaan se satopradhaan ban_na hai. Yah hai ruhaani bhatti. Vah jo Karachi may tumhaari bhatti bani vah aur baath thi. Yah Yoga ki bhatti aur hai. Yah hai yogbal ki bhatti jismey kichdaa nikal jaataa hai. Vahaan to tum apni bhatti may thay. Aur koyi se milnaa na hotaa thaa. Yah hai Yoga ki bhatti. Apne liye mehnat karni hoti hai. Atma samajhti hai aatmaa hi gyaan sunti hai organs dwara. -15

= In this last birth , you need to become satoprdahan/pure. This is spiritual bhatti. The bhatii what you had in Karachi was different. This bhatti of Yoga is different. In this bhatti of power of Yoga, the dirt will be cleared. There, you had been in bhatti of you people (means may be just isolation). There was no meeting with others. This is bhatti of Yoga. There is need to put effort for self. ...

--------But- in the following----

SM 8-7-70(2):- Saath roz may sabhi kuch samjhaa jaa sakta hai. parantu saath roz koyi de na sake. Buddhiyog kahaan na kahaan chalaa jaataa hai. Tum to bhatti may pade huye kiski shakal nahin dekhte thay. Koyi se baat nahin karte thay. Baahar bhi nikalte nahin thay. Tapasya ke liye saagar ke kanthey par jaaye baith_te thay Yaad may. Us samay yah chakr nahin samjhaayaa. Yah padhaayi nahin samajhte thay. Pahle2 to Baba se Yoga chaahiye. Baba ka parichay chaahiye. Phir peeche teacher chaahiye. Pahle Baap ke saath Yoga seekhnaa pade. Kyonki yah Baap to hai ashareeri. Doosraa to koyi maante hi nahin. Kahte hain Godfather omnipresent hai. Bas, sarvavyaapi kaa gyaan hee chalaa aataa hai.

= ....During those days in bhatti, you were not seeing anyone's face. You were not talking to anyone. you are not going outside. To do tapasya, you used to go and sit around sea shore(saagar ke kanthay). That time, the (knowledge of) the wheel was not given. This study was not understood/known. First, company of Baba is necessary. Introduction of Father is necessary. Then, later teacher is necessary. first, Yoga with Father should be learnt. Because Father is bodyless. Others do not believe (so). They believe God is omnipresent. The knowledge of omnipresent has been in existence.

In the latter Murli point- it is mentioned they used to do tapasya, but was it with point of light? till what point, they used to believe God is omnipresent- is still not clear.

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Re: Mbbhat's Views and Churnings.

Post by mbbhat » 23 Aug 2012

#Post 03

So- Baba might have used the Bhaktimarg way to give knowledge.

So- initially- that may be the reason why Baba said- I am Trimurti. Intially I create B, V, S there in Subtle Region. Because the belief of lowkik people is that- these three deities reside above physical world. Of course, they shown the Three Worlds separate - but- all the three are shown next to one another as Subtle Region in the BK picture of Three Worlds.

So- Baba might have given respect to the Bhaktimarg belief - so that Bhaktimarg people can get interest to listen to the knowledge.
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Now- to the concept of Subtle Region resident Brahma and the Prajapita brahma

In lowkik world, it is believed that Brahma created world sitting above (Subtle Region). They believe that God or brahma created world from zero. They do not believe creation means transformation/purification.

But, bk philosophy says- the creation is eternal. there is no physical creation. Creation means just transformation and god needs a body in whom he can enter to give knowledge from whom the Kaliyugi shudras can be converted into braahmins and then can put effort.

But , in no scripture- it is said- God enters in an impure human body. They believe god comes in every yuga/age. So- this is a great task of proving for god that he has come in impure body.
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So- Baba might have taken these steps.

1)To prove that- There is no physical creation, he used the saying in bhatimarg (Hey Purifier, come and make us pure). It automatically proves that God's duty is to purify and hence not create physically.

2)From 1), he can prove that he comes only in impure world and since he is bodyless, he needs a body to give knowledge and hence he needs impure body.

3)Since the creation role is given to Brahma in scriptures, and the transformation is the real creation, the person in whom he enters should be called as Brahma.

4)In lowkik, Brahma is also called as Prajapita. so- Baba uses that concept that- Prajapita = Father of citizens(prajas) should be here, in this world, is it not? How can he(Prajapita Brahma) be in Subtle Region?

5)Of course, at that time (till 1969), there was no subtle Brahma in real. Baba could have denied that. But why he did not do so?

May be due to -- a)Not to hurt Bhaktimarg people's belief by directly saying that brahma does not exist now. and b)Image of subtle brahma is necessary for BKWSU also till DL becomes complete -- for DL to check till where he reached in his effort and to bring trance messages from Subtle Region (of course by vision or something like that).

But Baba has clearly said - both the Brahmas are one and the same. The same vyakt (corporeal) will become Avyakt (subtle).

6)In lowkik world, it is believed that Daksh Prajapati existed in physical world. Regarding Prajapita, there is no clarity in scripture. But, lowkik people add the word Prajapita to the same Brahma what they believe in Subtle Region.

Now, Baba may be tyring to prove his incarnation by the word Prajapita that- when it is written Prajapita, he should be in the phyiscal world, is it not? Because Praja (citizens) are here in physical world.

That may be the reason why the name of Brahma is kept as Prajapati in BKWSU initially and then changed as Prajapita.

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Re: Mbbhat's Views and Churnings.

Post by mbbhat » 23 Aug 2012

#Post 04 Use of Trimurti

In lowkik world (Hindu scriptures), it is not clear who is the Supreme. They believe creation role is to brahma, sustenance to Vishnu, and destruction to shiv (since they believe Shankar = shiv). But, the word Trimurti [or Trimurti Shiv] is famous.

So Baba uses that word to prove that Shiv is creator of even B, V, S. Shiv is incorporeal, whereas B, V, S have subtle body. By the picture Trimurti, he can easily prove Shiv and Shankar are different and shiv is incorporeal, the point.

Imp point is- even in Bhaktimarg, the word meaning of shiv is incorporeal only. But they think of Shankar for shiv.

So- with the Trimurti Shiv concept Baba can prove that Shiv is supreme, Shiv and Shankar are different, and it is Shiv who does the role of transformation through Brahma.

Just brahma is useless without shiv's entrance in him.

Even though Shiv Jayanti festival is celebrated in India, people do not know when Shiv came, what did he do, etc, etc. So- Baba says in Murli- write Trimurti shiv Jayanti , not just Shiv Jayanti, because from the picture Trimurti, it can be proved that shiv enters in brahma and that is his real Jayanti (birth). Else just by saying Shiv Jayanti, neither the real Jayanti (birth = incorporation) of Shiv nor the role of Brahma can be explained.

In this way, Baba could slowly and slowly touch intellects of lowkik people with the examples from the scriptures.

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Re: Mbbhat's Views and Churnings.

Post by mbbhat » 23 Aug 2012

#Post No. 05

But , Baba then also says that- in fact, i am not Trimurti. Because i come only in one body. I have already supplied Murli point which says- I am not Trimurti.

So- i think- Baba means here- Use Trimurti just as an instrument for service and it is not fact.
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Why does Baba mentions Gita now and then in Murli?

Because due to insertion of name Krishna is Gita, the Supreme being God is forgotten.

Now- there are two gitas- one yaadgaar (lowkik= sanscrit), the other real one (Murli).

Why Baba says- Gita is mother and Father of all scriptures*? I think- It is not to the lowkik Gita (of course, the teachings in the lowkik Gita is higher than any other scripture). Because Bible, quran,. etc took birth/created from lowkik Gita ? No. [No religious fathers took help from lowkik Gita to preach their teachings]

It is from Murli the other scriptures take birth. In the end, the souls of religious fathers will get knowledge from BKWSU (Murli) and then they will teach there in next Kalpa. I think- that is the reason why Baba says- Gita is mother of all the scriptures.
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Krishna was present in Satyug, and hence did not teach anything.
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When it would be proved that Shiv is god of Gita, then only all the religions will recognize One god and will realize practically that- Shiv = allah= god = Jehova.... and India would be the highest place of pilgrimage for all the religions.
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* note that even in Bhaktimarg, Gita is believed to be mother of all scriptures as "sarva_shaastra_mayi shiro_mani srimad_bhagavadgita"

sarva = all, shastra = scripture mayi= mother, shiro= head= top, mani =jewel srimat/d = srimath

Even though Hindus say this- they still cannot explain how Gita is superior to Vedas. Because in present lowkik Gita, it is Krishna who is visible and not Shiv.

The concept of bhagavaanuvach (god's words) in present only in Gita and no other scripture.

So- Baba links all these together- Trimurti shiv Jayanti, Gita Jayanti, and then Krishna Jayanti. (because it is from Gita knowledge only Krishna takes birth in heaven)

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Re: Mbbhat's Views and Churnings.

Post by mbbhat » 23 Aug 2012

#Post 6

I came to the above conclusion with my churnings on enough Murli points. Many of them are already posted in the forum. I will post Murli points here also when feel required. If anyone needs support of Murli points for my above conclusion, can write here.

When something said in Murli, we should try to know why Baba said so. If we do not get answer, we may list all the points together regarding that point and then revise on all those points, it becomes easy for conclusion. Else- if still we did not get them, then just leave them and do Yoga.


Aim of Baba in most of the Murli points are - mainly
1)to prove his incarnation, and then
2)to explain how he is incarnated and then
3)what benefit is there from those or how world is purified from impure into pure.


Baba takes different examples of Bhaktimarg sayings and beliefs - to explain the knowledge easily.
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Re: Mbbhat's Views and Churnings.

Post by mbbhat » 23 Aug 2012

#Post 07

Example 01:- Tum maatpitaa hum baalak terey, tumhen paakey milaa sukh ghanerey = you are our Father and mother. By getting you, we got unlimited happiness-

Aim of Shiv here is to explain that shiv has incarnated. When we say god as just Father, people get confused, because there is no feeling of incarnation of god to physical world. Because just Father implies god is above only. But, when it is said maatpitaa (mother and Father), it proves he comes here.

SM 13-10-83(1):- Kahte bhi hain niraakaar ShivBaba. Brahma ko bhi Baba kahthe hain. Vishnu ko Baba nahin. Shankar ko bhi Baba nahin kahenge. Shiv ko humeshaa Baba kahte hain. SHIV KA CHITR ALAG, Shankar KA CHITR ALAG. Gaate bhi hain shivaaya namaha. Phir kahaa jaataa hai tum maatpitaa. YAH BHI SAMAJHNAA BAHUT SAHAJ HAI KI BAROBAR NIRAAKAAR SHIV KO HEE BAAP KAHTE HAIN. VAH HAI SABHEE AATMAAVON KA BAAP. Shankar va Vishnu niraakaar toh nahin hai. Shiv ko niraakaar kahenge. Un sabkey chitr hain. Mandiron may, Bhaktimarg may kitney chitr hain. Oonch te oonch chitr dikhaate hain ShivBaba kaa. Phir BVS kaa dikhaate hain. Unkaa bhi roop hai. Jagadamba, Jagatpita ka bhi roop hai. LN ka bhi sakari roop hai. Baaki ek hi bhagavaan hai niraakaar. Parantu unko sirf God kahney se manushy moonjhte hain. POOCHO- GOD TUMHAARAA KYAA LAGTAA HAI? KAHENGE Father. TOH YAH SIDDH KAR BATLAANAA HAI GOD Father HAI. Father RACHTAA HAI. TOH MOTHER BHI CHAHIYE. MOTHER BIGAR Father KAISE SRUSHTI RACHENGE? VAH Father KAB AAYENGE? SAB BULAATE HAIN HEY- PATITON KO PAAVAN BANAANEVAALEY, AAVO. ABHI TOH SAARI DUNIYAA PATIT HAI. PATITI HO, TAB TOH AAKAR PAVAN BANAAYENGE NA. IS_SEY SIDDH HOTA HAI BAAP KO AANAA ZAROOR HAI. Samajhte bhi hain, vah Father hai. Parantu drama anusaar vah koyi ko samajhney kaa hai nahin. Na samjhe, tab toh Baap aakar samjhaavenge. ...........Manushyon may agyaan hai. Parampita, Oh go Father akshar kah_kar agar usko na jaaney, toh un jaisaa agyaan koyi nahin. -14 [maatpita, Trimurti, service, ShivBaba] - vimp


= It is said Incorporeal ShivBaba. Baba is also said to Brahma, but not to Vishnu or Shankar. To Shiv, it is always said as Baba. Picture of Shiv and Shankar are different. They say shivaaya namaha (= salutes to Shiv). Then it is said, You are Mother and Father. It is very easy to understand that the word Father is said to the incorporeal shiv. He is Father of all souls. Shankr or Vishnu are not incorporeal. There is picture to them. In temples many pictures are kept. The highest picture shown is of ShivBaba. Then they show those of B, V, S. They also have form. There is form of even Jagatpita and Jagadamba. Even LN have Sakar forms. But the only one God is incorporeal. But when he is called as just "God", people get confused. Ask (them)- what is god to you? They say- Father. So- it should be explained that God is Father. (Now) Father is creator. So- there is need of mother. Without mother, how can Father create creation? (Now) when that Father will come? All call him as Oh- purifier, come. Now, the whole world is impure. When it is impure, then the Father will come and purify, is it not? This proves that- god has to come. They also understand he is Father. But according to drama, they do not realize…...... They say- Parampita (supreme Father), God Father, etc, but do not know him. Nothing is as ignorance to this.
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So- to indians, it is easy to explain incarnation of god, since there is already word maatpitaa.

but foreigners, who believe just as Father, it is relatively difficult. then we should use the creation and purification concept, which proves that he has to descend to the impure world.

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Re: Mbbhat's Views and Churnings.

Post by mbbhat » 23 Aug 2012

#Post 08

So- who is/are maatpitas in real?

The real maatpitaa - the praise is just for one incorporeal shiv. But, others have value, of lower levels.

Baba says in various ways which are give below.

I had put my views in this thread. http://bk-pbk.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2177

That is why Baba many times says in Murli- you ask them (devotees)- Who are Jagat pitas and Jagat matas? what is you relation with them?, etc, etc.

Because the purpose is just one- proving incarnation of God Father. And when any one personality is understood, all the rest would be understood. Because they are inter related

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Re: Mbbhat's Views and Churnings.

Post by mbbhat » 23 Aug 2012

#Post 09

Example- 02:- Farukkhaabaadvaaley maalik ko maante hain= those who live in farukkhaabad believe in maalik (master= owner)

SM 17-12-82(1):- BHAGAVAAN KO RUDR BHI KAHA JATA HAI. Krishn ko rudr nahin kahenge. Rudr gyaan yagy se hee vinaash jwala nikli hai. POINTS PAKADNI HAI SAMJHAANE KE LIYE. UNKO ANEK NAAM SE BULAATE HAIN. FARUKAABAAD MAY EK PANTH HAI JO “EK MAALIK” KAHTE HAIN. KAHTE HAIN US MAALIK KAA NAAM NAHIN HAI. ACHCHAA VAH MAALIK KAHAA KAA HAI? KYAA VISHW KAA? SAARE SRSUHTI KAA MAALIK HAI? ?Hum kahte hain Parampita Parmatama srushti ka maalik hai nahin. Srishti kaa maalik to devi devtaayein bante hain. Parampita Parmatama hai brahmaand kaa maalik. So to tum hum bhi maalik hain. Brahm tatw Baap ka ghar so hum bachchon ka ghar hai. Brahmaand hai Baap kaa ghar jahaan aatmaayein andey misal dikhlaate hain. Aise koyi hai nahin. Hum aatmaayein jyotibindu vahaan nivaas karti hain. -126-

= Bhagavaa is also called as Rudr. Krishn is not called as Rudr. From rudr gyaan gayg, the fire of destruction has come out. You should gather points to explain. He is called by many names. In Farukkaabad, there is one group who say "One maalik" . they say- that maalik has no name. good, He is maalik of what/where? Of the world? Of the whole creation? We say- Parampita Param atma is not maalik of the creation/srushti. The maalik of the creation/srushti are deities. PP is maalik of brahmaand (Incorporeal world). so- even you also are maalik of that. the house of Father is also that of children. there, the souls are shown like eggs. (But actually) it is not so. We souls point of lights reside there.
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SM 12-1-83(2):- Vah log kahte hain Parmatama vishw ka maalik hai. JAISE FARUKKAABAADVAALEY KAHTE HAIN HUM US MAALIK KO YAD KARTE HAIN. Parantu vaastav may Vishw ka athva sruhti kaa maalik to LN bante hain. Niraakaar ShivBaba toh vishw kaa maalik bante nahin. TOH UNHON_SEY POOCHNAA PADEY KI MAALIK NIRAAKAAR HAI YAA SAAKAAR HAI. Niraakaar toh Sakar srushti ka malik ho na sakey. Vah hai brahmaand kaa maalik. Vahi akar patit duniyaa ko paavan banaate hain. -15

= the say PP is maalik of the world. Like the Farukkaabad people say- we remember that maalik. But actually, LN become maalik of World. Incorporeal ShivBaba does not become maalik of the world. so- you ask them- Is maalik corporeal or incorporeal. Incorporeal cannot be maalik of corporeal creation. He is maalik of brahmaand (IW) . He is the one who comes and transforms the impure world into pure.
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In these, Baba gives hints to children - how to explain to that group. Because that group believes in maalik. But they might be thinking that "god is maalik of corporeal creation." so- Baba says- you can tell them that actually it is LN and deities who become malik of CW and that incorporeal maalik is the one who purifies it. In this way, you can explain the knowledge easily to them.

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Re: Mbbhat's Views and Churnings.

Post by mbbhat » 23 Aug 2012

#Post. no. 10

Similarly Baba uses many examples of Bhaktimarg songs, pictures, names, beliefs, sayings, etc to explain his incarnation, and the knowledge of Time cycle.

Example 03:- Baba uses the word Rudr gyaan yagy and in yagy , there should be braahmins (as per lowkik belief also it is braahmins who take care of Yagya).

There is belief in lowkik world that- braahimns were created by mukh (mouth) of Brahma. Also it is said in scriptures that- till a braahimn child gets his upanayan (a ritual where the set of three threads is put on him and brahmopadesh- knowledge is imparted to him), there is no difference between a braahimn child or Shudra child.

Now, how come lowkik braahmins can be called as mouth born? they may just say it.

So- Baba explains how the creation actually happens by knowledge which comes through mouth of brahma which is actually from the Shiva sitting inside, the yaadgaar of nandi bull in temple of Shiva, etc, etc.

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Re: Mbbhat's Views and Churnings.

Post by mbbhat » 23 Aug 2012

# Post no. 11

Example - 04:- ShivBaba adopts lowkik Gita scripture:-

SM 11-11-83(1):- Number one hai hi Gita. SARV SHAASTRMAYI SHIROMANI SRIMATH BHAGAVADGITA MAATAA. AB MATA KO JANM KISNEY DIYAA? BAAP HI MAATAA KO ADOPT KARTE HAIN NA.

= Number One is Gita . Mother of all scriptures, the top jewel srimath bhagavadgita mother.Now who gave birth to (this) mother? Father only adopts mother, is it not?

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Just by the above 2 to 3 sentences one will not be able to enjoy or understand deep matter lying here. Hence I am giving the full set of the points in the next post.

But, this will lie as summary of the whole.
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Adoption means- to make someone’s child/property as mine. The child remains same, but name of Father changes. so- here, ShivBaba is saying that the Father's name of the child(lowkik Gita) should be changed from SriKrishna to Shiv.

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Mbbhat's Views and Churnings.

Post by mbbhat » 23 Aug 2012

# Post no. 11

Example - 04:- ShivBaba adopts lowkik Gita scripture:-

SM 11-11-83(1):- Meethay bachche- GYAAN KAA SHUDDH GHAMAND CHAAHIYE, TAB HI Gita KE BHAGAVAAN KO SIDDH KAR SAKTEY HO. BHAARATVAASIYON KO YAH BHOOL SIDDH KAR BATAAVO TOH NAAM BAALAA HO JAAYE…........ SIRF YAH EK BAATH SIDDH KARNE KE LIYE BAAP KO KITNI MEHNATH KARNI PADTI HAI. ....... Foreigners ko bhi siddh kar bataanaa padtaa hai. Number one hai hi Gita. SARV SHAASTRMAYI SHIROMANI SRIMATH BHAGAVADGITA MAATAA. AB MATA KO JANM KISNEY DIYAA? BAAP HI MAATAA (lowkik Gita*) KO ADOPT KARTE HAIN NA. Gita KISNEY SUNAYI? AISEY NAHIN KAHENGE CHRIST NE BIBLE KO ADOPT KIYAA. CHRIST NE JO SHIKSHAA DI, UNKA PHIR BIBLE BANAAKAR PADHTE HAIN. YAH KISKO PATAA NAHIN HAI. AUR SABKEY SHAASTRON KAA TOH PATAA HAI. Yah jo sahaj Rajyog ki shikshaa hai, vah kisney di hai, yah siddh kar bataanaa hai. duniyaa toh din pratidin tamopradhaan banti jaati hai. Yah sab khyaalaath swachch buddhi may hi baith sakti hai. jo srimath par nahin chalte unki buddhi may dhaaranaa ho na sakey. Srimath kahegi- tum bilkul samjhaa nahi sakey ho. Apney ko gyaani math samjho. Pahley toh mukhy baath yah siddhi karni hai Gita ka bhagavaan Parampita hai, vahi patitpavan hai. Manushy toh sarvavyaapi kah dete hain va brahma tatw ko kah dete va saagar kah dete. Jo aataa hai kah dete bigar arth. Bhool saari Gita se nikli hai jo Gita ka bhagavaan Srikrishn kah diya hai. TOH SAMJHAANE KE LIYE Gita UTHAANI PADEY*. Kanpurvaaley guptaaji ko bhi kahte thay ki Benarus may siddh kar bataavo ki Gita ka bhagavaan Krishn nahin hai. Ab sammelan toh hote hain. Sab religions maangte hain kyaa upaay karey- toh shanti ho jaye. ... Kahte bhi hain patit paavan aavo. Phir patit kaise shanti sthaapan kar saktey hain? Jabki bulaate rahte hain, parantu patit se paavan banaanevaale Baap ko jaante nahin hai. -43- [Gita] vvimp


= Sweet children, you should have pure intoxication of the knowledge. Than only you can prove god of Gita. If you correct this, your name will be famous….... Just to prove this one matter, how much effort Father needs to put. ..... you should prove this even to the foreigners. Number One is Gita. Mother of all scriptures, the top jewel srimath bhagavadgita mother. Now who gave birth to mother (lowkik Gita)? Father only adopts mother, is it not? Who spoke Gita? It is not said that Christ adopted Bible. The teachings of Christ is then made as Bible and is studied. No one knows this (about Gita). Information about all other scriptures is known. Who gave knowledge of easy Rajayog, this should be proved. As days pass, the world will go on degrading. All these matters will sit only in clean intellects. Those who do not follow srimath, cannot imbibe knowledge. Srimath will say- you will not be able to explain (the knowledge). Do not consider yourself to be gyaani (knowledgeful). First, you should prove that god of Gita is Supreme Father. He is Purifier. People will say omnipresent, or to the IW, or to the ocean. What comes into mind, they say without meaning. The whole mistake is due to the saying that God of Gita is Krishn. So- to explain, the Gita should be taken into consideration. Gupta brother at Kanpur should go and prove that god of Gita is not Krishn at Benarus. Now, conferences happen. All the religions think – what can be done to attain peace….. They also say Purifier, come. Then how can impure people create peace? They call (the purifier), but do not know the Father who purifies.
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Usually it is difficult to understand how God adopts books? He will adopt only living souls, is it not?

But, when I read the whole Murli point second time, I came to the following conclusion.

Adoption means- to make someone’s child/property as mine. The child remains same, but name of Father changes. so- here, ShivBaba is saying that the Father's name of the child(lowkik Gita) should be changed from SriKrishna to Shiv.
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see- Baba links this point to that with Purifier.

It is due to this wrong , Indians sometimes call the ocean as Purifier, sometimes the IW, sometimes something. they are wandering due to this. This is what Baba wishes to point out. Baba also says- explain this even to other religions and in the conferences., so that let others understand the truth, God and the ancient culture of India and hence knowledge of Time Cycle.

mbbhat
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Re: Mbbhat's Views and Churnings.

Post by mbbhat » 23 Aug 2012

# Post no. 12

In this way, Baba goes on explaining. Now, I try to go through some important issues:-

Example 05 Did there really exist children who were greater than Mama and Brahma Baba in Yagya (did they really used to teach drill to Mama and Baba and give them directions)?[/size]
“They used to teach Mama-Baba the drill, and they used to give directions, ‘do like this’. They used to sit as teachers. We used to think that their number in the rosary would be very high. They too got lost. the Murlis dated 28.5.74 and 4.05.94
I do not have Hindi version. so- there may be a little error. but I think it will not affect here.
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Now, to the discussion, here are few Murli points:-

1)SM 3-9-82(3):- Bhakti bhi saverey uth_kar karte hain. Tum bachchon ko maaloom hai ki Baba ek do baje uth_kar Murli likhte thay jo tum padhkar aur chalaate thay. PHIR BABA BAITH SUNTE THAY KI DEKHEN KAISE CHALAATE HAIN. YAH SAB TOH ShivBaba KI HI KAMAAL THI. KITNEY ACHCHE2 BACHCHE THAY, CHALE GAYE. AAJ HAI NAHIN. Maya ne ekdum shaapit kar diyaa. -5

= Bhakti is also done in the morning. You know that Baba used to get up at 1 AM, 2 AM and write Murlis which you used to (sit in guddi as teachers) read in the class. Then Baba used to see (possibly even Baba would be then sitting below) how children are taking/doing class. (means how they used to sit in guddi, read and explain the Murli to the class). These all were magic of ShivBaba.How many good children were there, they left.

2)SM 6-11-77(2):- TUM BACHCHIYAAN SAMPOORN BABA PAAS JAATI HO, US DWAARAA ShivBaba DIRECTION AADI DETE HAIN NA.

= You children used to go in trance to complete Brahma, and ShivBaba used to give directions through him.
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So- there is a possibility that - Baba would be sitting below when those children were given chance to sit on guddi, and naturally those children would be givning drushti to even Mama, Baba as just a routine procedure.. Means- practically there could have been no any teaching of drill to Mama, Baba?

And the directions also were like message through trance. (there need not be greatness in the children. It is just passing the information from trance to Mama, Baba)

So- is Baba just/simply praising those children and it is not in real?
More Murli points will be put in next post.

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Re: Mbbhat's Views and Churnings.

Post by mbbhat » 23 Aug 2012

# Post no. 13) ------------- example no. 05 under discussion-------

How Baba used to praise?

3)SM 24-3-78(1):- kayi bachche aise bhi hain jo Maa baap se bhi achchaa padhte hain. ShivBaba ki to baath hee oonch thahree. PARANTU Mama BABA SE BHI IS SAMAY HOSHIYAAR BACHCHE HAIN. Bhal sampoorn to koyi banaa nahin hai. Kuch na kuch kantein bhi lagte hain. Maya ka war hota hai.

= there are few children who study better than mother and Father. Shivaba is greatest (uncomparable). But, at present, there are children who are intelligent than Mama and Baba. Of course, no one has become complete.

Is the above praise of Baba real or just to motivate children and make them not feel bad? see below.


4)SM 8-10-77(1):- Yah Brahma nazdeek hai to kahenge Mama Baba jaasti padhte hain. Phir numberwaar sabhi bachche padhte hain. Bhale hee Baba kahte ki Jagadeesh bachchaa Mama Baba se achchaa samajhtaa hai. Baba ki Murli padhkar dhaaran kar phir Gita magazine aadi banata hai. Kyonki yah shaastr padhaa huvaa hai. Angrezi may bhi hoshiyaar hai. To isko kaha jata hai regard. Student ko ek do ka regard rakhna hai. Baba bhi to regard rakhte hain na. Father ko follow karna chahiye. Bhale hee abhi 16 kala sampoorn to nahin baney hain, numberwaar to hote hee hai na. Koyi na koyi bhooley to sabsey hoti rahti hai. Isliye apney ko miyaa mittu na samajhnaa hai. Jaise karm Baap karte hain main karoongaa. Vah sab mukje dekh karege. Aur regard ek do ko rakhna hai. Baba ko bhi regard rakhna padtaa hai. -53 [hoshiyaar, maatpita, number one] [= SM 11-9-82(1)- 14-}

= ... Of course, baba says- Jagadish child learns (or explains) better than Mama and Brahma. After reading Murli, prepares Gita, magazines, etc. Because he had read scriptures. He is intelligent even in English. This is called as regard. student should give regard to one another. Baba slo keeps regard, is it not? Follow Father. ... everyone should give regard to one another. even Baba also needs to give (regard for others).

so- is the Murli point where Baba had praised is just to keep regard and also- it applies to children like Jagadish Bhai here?

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Re: Mbbhat's Views and Churnings.

Post by mbbhat » 23 Aug 2012

# Post No. 14) ---- example 05 under discussion-------

See more praises of Baba whether real or just to motivate:-

5)SM 9-10-77(3):- Baba ke patron may to chit-chat hoti hai. Toh Madhuban may raat ko sunaayi jaati hai. Madhuban may Baba hasaayenge bhi, pusti bhi denge. UTHAANE KE LIYE KAHENGE TUM BADE ACHCHE HO. GYAAN GANGAA BAN SAKTI HO. Kyaa telephone office may noukri karti ho. Tum to Maharani ban_nevaali ho. Girneyvaale ko bhi uthaavenge. Aisey nahin jaise bangaali marnevaaley hote hain toh aur hi Ganaga may daal Hari Bol ki dubki dete hain. -55- = SM 12-9-82


= ..... In Madhuban, Baba will motivate. To lift, Baba will say- You are very good, you can become river Ganga. Do you work in Telephone Office? You will become Maharani (empress). Baba will lift even those who are falling......
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6)SM 02-10-82(2):- Yoga may bahut practice karnaa chaahiye. Subah uth baap ko bahut pyaar se Yaad karnaa chaahiye. JINKO BABA EK, DO NUMBER MAY RAKHHAIN VAH BHI Yaad NAHIN KARTE. Bhaashan to bahut achchaa kar lete hain. Parantu yad may nahin rahte hain. -3 [Yaad, WOT]

= To whom baba used to place in number one or two also do not remember Baba. They do speech well. But do not remember.

so- is that place no. 01 and 02 real?
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