Ideological interpretation of the Yagya History - REVs .

To discuss the BK and PBK versions relating to the progressive differential development of BK & PBK ideologies or theologies.
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Experience the Magic of Golden LOVE !

Post by Golden Heart » 06 Oct 2007

SWEETEST, LOVELIEST, LOVABLE, LOVING, LOVEFUL, GOLDEN HEARTS !
arjun wrote:You have cracked all nuts in a NUTSHELL

We are all interacting within the NUTSHELL of EWD. This is, indeed, THE MATRIX ...
arjun wrote:But like our physical heart we should try to welcome impure blood, but pump out only pure blood.
You are a very splendid Master Supreme Spiritual Surgeon, merged within Baba’s GOLDEN HEART, whose specialty is exactly to perform above task, and Baba is extremely pleased and delighted with your sincere Devotion to this task. Baba sends you MULTI-MULTI-MULTI-MILLION-FOLD Imperishable, Infinite, Eternal GOLDEN LOVE in return for your extreme Devotion to Him.
john wrote:Can I ask if you are part of a splinter group away from the main BKSWU? Or have you formed your own splinter group with it's own name?
I belong to the SEED who encompasses the entire TREE! I belong to the GOLDEN HEART who encompasses ALL Golden Hearts!
F B wrote:But, like John, I am also wondering where you exist in the BK spectrum.
Do you continue to work within BK circles?
I exist within the spectrum of your Golden Heart. I reside within the deepest recesses of your True and Loving Golden Heart. And I work within the innermost circles of EACH and EVERY Sweetest, Loveful Golden Heart !

Why do you seek the Living among the Dead?

Come, please enter within the Enchanting Embrace of All-Sustaining, All-Nourishing GOLDEN HEART. It is only a micro-millimeter and a micro-second away from you. Emerge the Thought only and you shall be Healed!
MY LOVE, PLEASE COME . . . PLEASE . . . S’il Vous Plait!
abrahma kumar wrote:I quoted the above section from your post because one interpretation visualizes that any suspension of the forum would be due to the "lack of understanding of the souls who post over here" (I am wary of using the term "impure motives") rather than as a consequence of an abuse of power by the BKWSO?

If I have a ‘Beam’ in my own Eye, I will not be able to See clearly, to be able to remove the speck that is in my Brother’s Eye!
abrahma kumar wrote:Your spiritual fragrance is unmistakable Brother, Son of Shiva, and it is truly a joy to meet with you like this in Cyberspace.
I give you ALL my LOVE, my ENTIRE LOVE, my COMPLETE LOVE that is within my Golden Heart. The Secret is that the more I give, the more I have. It simply multiplies. This is the True MAGIC OF GOLDEN LOVE!
F B wrote:I think that Abek and I are just about to break into song for the pair of you and (gushing) EVERYONE ON THIS FORUM AND WORLD AND UNIVERSE ...
You possess sufficient Love within your Golden Heartto provide spiritual sustenance, succour, and solace to innumerable souls. At this moment it is locked, soon it will be unlocked ... Behold, THE MAGIC OF GOLDEN LOVE ...
john wrote:Do I hear wedding bells?
Behold, the BRIDEGROOM is at the door of your Golden Heart, waiting patiently for you to enter WITHIN! It is impossible for Him to leave without You because you are so very PRECIOUS to Him!
arjun wrote:The story sounds interesting and compares well with the story of Krishna and Kansa.
Baba has spoken many times of the similarity in the Rashi of Krish and Chris.
------------------

BEAUTIFUL BRIDES OF BABA,

I have been advised to withdraw from Cyberspace for a period, and concentrate on Subtlespace. Hence I will not be in a position to interact with you all, for some time. I hope to return soon ... Till then,

Adieu et Au Revoir, my Beautiful, Beloved, Sweetest, Golden Hearts ...

In Loveful Remembrance of Supreme Soul Shiv,

Golden Heart

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Post by abrahma kumar » 06 Oct 2007

Om Shanti Brother Golden Heart

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Post by andrey » 17 Oct 2007

If there are to be 10 ideologies then are we not to belong to one or another, or are we to belong to an eleventh one?

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WHICH IDEOLOGY WOULD I BELONG TO ?

Post by Golden Heart » 04 Dec 2007

andrey wrote: If there are to be 10 ideologies then are we not to belong to one or another, or are we to belong to an eleventh one ?
Of course, when we play our part during the second half of the Cycle, we must essentially belong to one or the other ideology. It is only in the Confluence Age that we recognize and realize our TRUE inter-relationships. At present, just as the souls in the outer Broad Drama consider themselves to be affiliated to one Religion or the other in the latter part of the Cycle, so also the BKs consider themselves to belong to one ideology or the other during the latter part of the Confluence Age.

NONE of these BK ideologies, that are presently claiming or aspiring to reveal the True God, are anywhere near understanding the True Personality of God, since none of the individuals belonging to any of these ideologies have the True Experience of Supreme Soul Shiv. All of them Blindly Believe that God is DIRECTLY operating through their respective Medium, just as the followers on the path of Bhakti in the outer Broad Drama Blindly Believe that God incarnated DIRECTLY through their respective Religious Founder.

It should now dawn upon all BKs (whether, ex-BK, BK, PBK, etc.) - During the SHOOTING PERIOD of Ravan Rajya - that BK actually stands for (B)ody (K)onsciousness, and unless they make concerted efforts to remove this ‘apparition’, they can never hope to experience Supreme Soul Shiv DIRECTLY, and will continue to remain trapped in the Gurudom of Bodily Gurus who claim or suggest that God operates DIRECTLY through them.

It is about time, now, that we gave up this concept of “BK” and became “SS” – Simple Soul or Simply a Soul, then only can we hope to have a direct experience and relationship with “SS” – Supreme Soul ...

Only when ALL OF US shed this “BK” – (B)ody (K)onsciousness will we realize that we are ONE FAMILY, and when this occurs, the actual World “TRANSFORMATION” will occur ...

In Loveful Remembrance of Supreme Soul Shiv,

Golden Heart

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Thank you

Post by abrahma kumar » 04 Dec 2007

Welcome back Golden Heart.

Regards, abrahma kumar

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direct experience and relationship with “SS” ...

Post by abrahma kumar » 04 Dec 2007

It is about time, now, that we gave up this concept of “BK” and became “SS” – Simple Soul or Simply a Soul, then only can we hope to have a direct experience and relationship with “SS” – Supreme Soul ...
Golden Heart, are you saying that each human soul has a part recorded in which direct 'self-verifiable' communication between itself and the Supreme Soul is an unquestioned experience? (i mean that others may question but each soul will know for itself the TRUTH of the direct relationship it is having with Supreme Soul?).

If yes, would this 'system' be an "advance" on the 'many-humans-looking-up-to-some-one or-another-Chariot-figurehead' system aka (Gurudom?), as has been the case in The Family to date i.e. Mr. Lekhraj for the BKs, Dev Dixit for the PBKs, and Mr. Patel for the Vishnu Party? (Apologies to any current chariots of Shiva whom i failed to mention).

Golden Heart, has Shiva given any signal that the time in drama has come for His part as you describe it to unfold? Golden Heart, would human soul's 'direct experience' of Supreme Soul be the commencement of a more subtle (powerful) part in the drama than that of medium-ship or trance?

(This last question does not attempt to denigrate the experience and/or part that both trance and medium-ship have thus far - allegedly - played in the revelation of the Shiva to human souls. I hope that it is not taken by anyone as a slur against their faith - I am just a curious simple soul trying to understand some things.) Thank you.

regards, abek

ps: by unquestioned I also mean that the experience is such that there is no need to even contemplate the provision of proofs or "a verification system". As the late BM sang: Who feels it knows it all ...

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Post by button slammer » 05 Dec 2007

You are a very splendid Master Supreme Spiritual Surgeon, merged within Baba’s GOLDEN HEART, whose specialty is exactly to perform above task, and Baba is extremely pleased and delighted with your sincere Devotion to this task. Baba sends you MULTI-MULTI-MULTI-MILLION-FOLD Imperishable, Infinite, Eternal GOLDEN LOVE in return for your extreme Devotion to Him.

How on God's earth would you know what is taking place between other souls and 'Supreme Soul'? Unless of course you are on an equal level to Baba and privy to His relationships with other souls?
Baba is extremely pleased and delighted
It is paradoxical to suggest that an incorporeal being comes into duality. ShivBaba is never pleased nor displeased, delighted nor disgusted, these are human traits. ShivBaba maintains equanimity with all souls.
It is about time, now, that we gave up this concept of “BK” and became “SS” – Simple Soul or Simply a Soul, then only can we hope to have a direct experience and relationship with “SS” – Supreme Soul ...
You address the Supreme Soul as 'Baba' on several occasions. 'Baba' means the incorporeal in the corporeal. It is only through spoken knowledge that we can come to recognize one soul as being supreme to all other souls. Only one soul does not take knowledge from any other. Later you suggest to 'leave the guru/bodily preceptors to one side and experience a 'direct' relationship', but the incorporeal in the corporeal actually means direct. Without a corporeal body there are zero facilities by which the soul can experience or express anything, including an experience/relationship with a bodiless being!

I hope that when you eventually get to the point of what it is you actually have to say/express, it will prove to be as entertaining as your prologue. That is of course, if mere words are able to encapsulate the unlimited fragrance of your golden heart, etc, etc.
All talk and no action? Let's wait and see. Your style of expression is colourful and hypnotic. Perhaps just style over content? :confused:

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different experiences

Post by sparkal » 05 Dec 2007

It is an important point. We can go along thinking that we all have the same experiences, then realise , years later even, that we were all experiencing something slightly different, according to the individual, their role, and capacity I presume.

There is a lot of telling how it is and what Shiva is and who Shiva works through. What is the next level? Must Shiva only work through one or two? If so, Why? Is this Shiva's doing or our earthly doing?

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Shiva Baba's 'pleasures'...?

Post by abrahma kumar » 05 Dec 2007

button slammer wrote: ... It is paradoxical to suggest that an incorporeal being comes into duality. ShivBaba is never pleased nor displeased, delighted nor disgusted, these are human traits. ShivBaba maintains equanimity with all souls ...
button slammer, I am not refuting your view nor proposing one of my own but can you share with us your thoughts on how the extract from your post fits in with the Murli point in which it is mentioned that God , aka ShivBaba, is pleased with (those children who have) an honest heart?

button slammer, is it your inculcation that the use of the word 'pleased' in this context ought to be understood in some way that does not pull us human souls into wondering about what it is that may displease God?

Anyway, I wonder if God's experience of 'pleasure' somehow remains 'uncontaminated' by any of the accompanying emotional feedback through which He, God, would potentially become pleased with Himself for being pleased with the children who have an honest heart?

If G-O-D would speak for Herself/Himself/Itself it would save a lot of time; but I am neither pleased nor dis-pleased by G-O-D's alleged equanimity - that's just the way it is (allegedly).


Regards, abrahma

(ps: after i made this post i googled 'pleasure principle' and came across some ... stuff)

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honest heart.

Post by button slammer » 06 Dec 2007

button slammer, I am not refuting your view nor proposing one of my own but can you share with us your thoughts on how the extract from your post fits in with the Murli point in which it is mentioned that God, aka ShivBaba, is pleased with (those children who have) an honest heart.?
Its meaning is clearer when one is reminded that the Murli point was spoken through a medium/Chariot-BrahmaBaba/Lekhraj Kirpalani. After the demise of BrahmaBaba/Lekhraj Kirpalani BKs teach that Supreme Soul Shiv, Father of all souls has returned to Paramdham, home of the souls, the 'sweet silence home'. Many Murli points describe the Soul World. The picture of BrahmaBaba visible in all BK centers world wide show that Shiv is separate from Brahmababa/Lekhraj Kirpalani. They show the image of an invisible point of light suspended over the image of a ... dead human?

BKs are teaching that the incorporeal point of light/Shiv is in contact with the 'family' at large and can be contacted via the intellect and the pure form of all relationships may be experienced through meditation/Raj Yoga/remembrance, and that the soul becomes pure through this remembrance, via the intellect. How can this be? The method as taught to the Dadis, Didis, Dadas etc was that Shiv is located in the forehead of BrahmaBaba, and in direct relationship via the sense organs of BrahmaBaba. When Shiv is in the body the name is ShivBaba, meaning the incorporeal in the corporeal. Shiv only comes into existence via speech.

Q. When does God become God? A. When God speaks.

A bodiless point of light located in Paramdham cannot speak or come into any form of relationship. Now, the problem arises that; 'In which direction is Paramdham the residence of Shiva'? :lol: Up, down, in, out, left, right, beyond, within etc? Once Paramdham is located if at all, how to identify one soul out of billions of others? How will you 'see' the souls in order to identify which is which? Animals also have souls and are points of light, are their souls also not located in the Soul World? Insects have souls. How many insects are there? Germs have souls, have you ever even contemplated counting how many germs exist? Even the germs have germs.

Perhaps by some method of trial and error you'll locate the Supreme Soul Shiv. Even then how will you communicate with an inert soul. In Paramdham the souls are 'asleep' inactive. You may as well be searching for life in the distant Galaxies.

So, when we are told God, aka ShivBaba, is pleased with (those children who have) an honest heart we have to remember how and where those versions reached us. Via a corporeal medium. With the death of BB/Lekhraj Kirpalani and the apparent dislocation of ShivBaba, the last remaining obstacles are removed for the establishment of the Gurus kingdom. All the BKs began to impersonate ShivBaba/BB/Lekhraj Kirpalani! 'God' became omnipresent. The straight forward Brahmins began to be outnumbered by the cunning imposters.

God, aka ShivBaba, is pleased with (those children who have) an honest heart! So what does it mean? It means ShivBaba is pleased with an honest heart=present tense. Meaning that the corporeal medium is there to face the Ravan Raja. How will an incorporeal being read your pota mail, how will you express the longings of your deepest heart's desire, how will an incorporeal being ease the hearts of the souls who have been down trodden and give them hope and encouragement. Via the corporeal medium of course!!! Who is in front of us, even now. :laugh: And so the importance of the corporeal aspect of ShivBaba cannot be underestimated. Unless the soul presents itself in front of ShivBaba, how will God be pleased with those with an honest heart?
NONE of these BK ideologies, that are presently claiming or aspiring to reveal the True God, are anywhere near understanding the True Personality of God, since none of the individuals belonging to any of these ideologies have the True Experience of Supreme Soul Shiv. All of them Blindly Believe that God is DIRECTLY operating through their respective Medium, just as the followers on the path of Bhakti in the outer Broad Drama Blindly Believe that God incarnated DIRECTLY through their respective Religious Founder.

It should now dawn upon all BKs (whether, ex-BK, BK, PBK, etc.) that BK actually stands for (B)ody (K)onsciousness, and unless they make concerted efforts to remove this ‘apparition’, they can never hope to experience Supreme Soul Shiv DIRECTLY, and will continue to remain trapped in the Gurudom of Bodily Gurus who claim or suggest that God operates DIRECTLY through them.
Okay. Golden Heart. Whilst in essence I appreciate your enthusiasm, I have to disagree with your view points on the irrelevance of the corporeal Chariot(s).

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honest heart?

Post by sparkal » 06 Dec 2007

I have a thought. An honest heart, is it related to the intellect and knowledge, or pure true feelings?

It is perhaps thought that Shiva does not so much have thoughts but simple pure feelings.

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The Rehearsals and Signals of Matter

Post by Golden Heart » 07 Dec 2007

Beloved Golden Heart, Abrahma Kumar

Thank you for your welcome, although I am allowed, at best, only a few days to interact with you all here, to be followed by a long period of ‘silence’; but I hope to return again ...

Q. Are you saying that each human soul has a part recorded in which direct 'self-verifiable' communication between itself and the Supreme Soul is an unquestioned experience?

A. The Whole Truth, the Absolute Truth and nothing but the Truth! Such an experience is a natural birth-right of each and every soul.

Sweet, Golden Heart, Abek, please do not be taken aback when I share with you my experience on reading this question! The question propelled me into a state of True Reality. It was as though God Himself questioned me, through you :
“Are you not aware that every Child of Mine has every right to Me, directly?”

And as I instantly “realized” this Truth, and affirmed its True Reality spontaneously, I was projected to the Blissful experience of that Reality ... I realized that, truthfully, you would not pose such a question, if you yourself, deep within, were not certain of the sheer veracity of it; and the real purpose of posing the question was to ingrain its truthfulness into my awareness with a magnificence and splendour that could only serve to afford me such a beautiful experience.
Thanks a MILLION, I SALUTE YOU ...

Q. If yes, would this 'system' be an "advance" ... ?

A. It is simply the culmination of the True K revealed by Supreme Soul Shiva.

Q. Has Shiva given any signal that the time in Drama has come for His part as you describe it to unfold?

Not only has Shiva signalled, but Matter too is constantly rehearsing and signalling!
Golden Heart wrote:I can readily visualize Maya trembling within the negative personalities of all those souls who are defaming God, and these tremors will manifest on the physical sphere in the form of Earthquakes, Floods, Cyclones, Volcanoes and Fall-out, being the purifying processes of Matter.
ALL Four Elements have already actively signalled from various parts of the World, since October, this year. Only nuclear fall-out is pending, and that too will be rehearsed at the appropriate time. What other signals are we "seeking"?

Q. Would human soul's 'direct experience' of Supreme Soul be the commencement of a more subtle (powerful) part in the Drama than that of medium-ship or trance?

This is True, and is the essential requirement for the final "TRANSFORMATION" ...

THANK YOU, SWEET HEART, I HAVE BEEN GREATLY ENRICHED BY YOUR INTERACTION ...

Wishing you all the very best and with Imperishable Divine Love,

In Loveful Remembrance of Supreme Soul Shiv,

Golden Heart

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thank you

Post by abrahma kumar » 08 Dec 2007

Thank you all for taking the time to reply.

Regards, abek

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MIRROR OF KNOWLEDGE - CHURNINGS

Post by Golden Heart » 08 Dec 2007

Sweet Golden Heart, Button Slammer

Thank you for your kind thoughts, and I have the following humble observations to offer for further consideration and churning :

BS: How on God’s earth would you know what is taking place between other souls and 'Supreme Soul'?

YOU ARE RIGHT! As long as we remain under the influence of the ‘earth’ of body consciousness, such an experience is definitely beyond our reach.

Much before any airplane was invented, if anyone said, "I would like to fly from London to New York”, another would definitely be justified in saying, "How on God’s earth are you going to actually FLY from London to New York?”, and the other would be absolutely RIGHT in saying so! But we have come to realize differently now. The more the soul moves away from BC, the clearer are the ‘touchings’ between souls.

BS: Unless of course you are on an equal level to Baba and privy to His relationships with other souls?

Supreme Soul Shiva constantly urges us to become Equal to the Father, (BapSaman), not only Brahma BapSaman or not merely Ram BapSaman, but also to strive to be Shiv BapSaman!

Baba has also told us that WE ARE Master Almighty Authority and Master God (Bhagwan). These versions need to be correctly comprehended in their proper perspective to be able to have appropriate experiences in the Confluence Age.
Golden Heart wrote:Baba is extremely pleased and delighted ...
This is the manner in which Baba speaks in order to instill courage and determination, and enhance the zeal and enthusiasm of souls who are trapped in the bondage of body consciousness. It does not imply that God comes into duality; that is the interpretation of souls from a body-conscious perspective.

BS: ‘Baba’ means the incorporeal in the corporeal.

What 'God' means to one ‘ideology’, could mean something else to another ‘ideology’.

BS: It is only through spoken knowledge that we can come to recognize one soul as being supreme to all other souls.

As per the script of Drama, when ‘shooting’ of Ravan Rajya commences, and Maya adopts the ISHWARIYA RUP or Godly FORM, then many souls are swayed into believing that the ‘spoken knowledge’ of Maya, through a particular embodied soul, originates directly from the Supreme Soul, and such ‘spoken knowledge’ APPEARS to be ‘supreme to all other souls’ to ALL the ardent followers of EACH and EVERY ‘IDEOLOGY’. This is the evident proof which exists in the Outer Broad Drama during the latter half of the Cycle, the ‘shooting’ of which takes place in the Confluence Age in the Yagya from 1969 onwards ...

BS: Only one soul does not take knowledge from any other.

That One Soul is the only ONE INCORPOREAL Supreme Soul Shiva!

BS: Later you suggest to 'leave the guru/bodily preceptors to one side and experience a 'direct' relationship', but the incorporeal in the corporeal actually means direct.

If two drivers, sitting inside two cars, facing each other, communicate using a physical medium, like a mobile phone or loud hailer, on the one hand; and if they get out of the cars and communicate with each other verbally, it is up to the ‘ideological’ interpretation of any person or group to determine what mode of communication would be actually considered to be ‘direct’!

BS: Without a corporeal body there are zero facilities by which the soul can experience or express anything, including an experience/relationship with a bodiless being!

This is absolutely true, as long as a soul is body-conscious. I realize that many souls have still to experience a direct relationship with Supreme Soul Shiva to such a meaningful extent as to completely free them from the dependence of tying the Incorporeal into the Corporeal for an Incorporeal Experience, ALL THE TIME! When that changes, and Maya is dissipated completely, then ALL souls will be afforded an Incorporeal Experience.

It should not be very difficult for anyone to understand that it is not possible for the Supreme Soul to utilise a physical medium, CONSTANTLY, to give even a very small number of embodied souls, leave alone ALL the souls, the tangible experience of ALL DIFFERENT CORPOREAL RELATIONSHIPS, CONSTANTLY! Obviously, there must be some other method employed???

BS: Your style of expression is colourful and hypnotic.

This entire Drama is colourful and hypnotic. The individual soul comes under a hypnotic spell the moment he becomes embodied, right from the very beginning of the Cycle to the very end. The souls who are irresistibly attracted to this hypnotism and are enchanted by it, once again assert, ‘ENCORE’ or ‘ONCE MORE’ when they become completely soul-conscious at the very end of the Cycle, and by virtue of that powerful collective Thought they are projected into the Cycle ONCE AGAIN, out of their own individual CHOICE and FREE WILL!

BS: Whilst in essence I appreciate your enthusiasm, I have to disagree with your view points on the irrelevance of the corporeal Chariot(s).
Golden Heart wrote: 05.10.07 I have received the correct introduction of Supreme Soul Shiva through corporeal mediums, and I have the deepest Love and Respect for those mediums.
It is true that some of the ideas that I have endeavoured to highlight in my posts may appear to be mutually contradictory. This is on account of the fact that all souls cannot be at the same level of ‘spiritual evolution’ at the same time. Many times we hold mutually contradictory views in our awareness without realizing their incompatibility. The corporeal Chariot(s) are relevant for a specific purpose, for a specific time-frame until the objectives are achieved, but this needs to be appreciated in the proper perspective!

With due regard to the members of this forum, I would like to make the previous churnings on the K, particularly in respect to the PBK ‘ideology’, available here for the benefit of those interested in same, which may be viewed here

With Imperishable Divine Love to you and to ALL on the Forum,

In Loveful Remembrance of Supreme Soul Shiv,

Golden Heart

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Post by john » 08 Dec 2007

Dear Golden Heart,

In Sakar Murli it clearly says ShivBaba takes a corporeal medium to teach Gyan and does NOT teach through inspiration. Surely then this inspiration or touchings you are feeling are your own imagination or from somewhere else?

Surely this is the most sensible way to teach otherwise all different souls will come up with all manner of nonsense and want to say it is from GodFather.

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