Accurate remembrance

An open forum for all ex-BKs, BKs, PBKs, ex-PBKs, Vishnu Party and ALL other Splinter Groups to post their queries to, and debate with, any member of any group congenially.
Post Reply
andrey
PBK
Posts: 1288
Joined: 13 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Post by andrey » 17 Sep 2007

Of course, it is possible that every word that emerges from the mouth of the Chariot is 100% true. If even people can be truthful and lie little in their life numberwise there should be someone who is 100% truthful somewhere. If we can take the Murli to be 100% true, we do because it is written on paper and there are many believers. But at that time also it used to be as if an ordinary man speaking. The 100% true one is only God. We believe this is him, so it is 100% true. Also the one he enters is the most truthful.

suryavanshi
PBK
Posts: 121
Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Post by suryavanshi » 20 Sep 2007

ex-l wrote:"I think this is one of a common fallacies that we should test out to see if it is true. It is common for pundits to stand on their soapboxes and pronuonce "No one can do this ... or no one can do that ..." but how do we KNOW. Let's set up an experiement."
Points are said on the basis of the Sakar Murli which are accepted by all. Those who have faith in the Murli would they need any experiment to prove it ?

Also, if human souls (includes soul of Ram and Krishna) had power to understand everything (Gyan by ShivBaba) by themselves then such a downfall of the world would never have taken place.

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Post by fluffy bunny » 20 Sep 2007

We are talking about two different things here. Pre-Gyan and Post-Gyan.

We are now Post-Gyan. The Nuclear bomb has been dropped. Knowledge is here where before it was not. BK types seem to think the world is stupid. I do not believe it is. All I say is give them direct access to Murli, let them make their own minds up AND progress at their own speed. Not be held back by the institution or other BK types.

Does the 'transmission' or initiation into BK-style Raja Yoga or rememberance require person to person interaction? If so, how and why?

For the PBKs, does this not require a meeting with Virendra Dev Dixit? Not all will have that. When the PBKs teach the course, do they do eye to eye meditation like the BKs to "give" the experience and lift the student up? What is going on during that process?

Do we share concerns about the mixture of the human in with the divine during the BK initiation?

suryavanshi
PBK
Posts: 121
Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Post by suryavanshi » 20 Sep 2007

ex-l wrote:We are talking about two different things here. Pre-Gyan and Post-Gyan. We are now Post-Gyan ...
Please write in detail your viewpoint, if you can. I do not exactly get what is your stand here or what you are trying to say. Hope to see your detailed post here.

User avatar
john
Reforming BK
Posts: 1606
Joined: 03 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: UK

Post by john » 20 Sep 2007

suryavanshi wrote:Points are said on the basis of the Sakar Murli which are accepted by all.
Which is why I was asking for the Sakar Murli point of what you mentioned about Ram.

Why do some PBKs have to be as slippery as eels? You know what I am asking and yet, you try and run the thread in circles.

suryavanshi
PBK
Posts: 121
Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Post by suryavanshi » 20 Sep 2007

John wrote:Which is why I was asking for the Sakar Murli point of what you mentioned about Ram
It is already said in the previous post that although a direct mention is not there in the Murli. This point can be understood from the Murli points cited.

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Post by fluffy bunny » 21 Sep 2007

I thought the questions were straightforward. So, instead try this one.
  • What is the "experience" of accurate remembrance to a PBK? The feeling?
I make the point that the 'sit down and receive Dhristi' practise of the BKs is basically an 'initiation' into a relationship with their Baba through the transmission of His energy through the BK teacher's eyes/being.

By analogy, its basically like having a virus, or programme, installed in the computer of your mind which then starts to work.

In the first place, the BK student is "given" experiences of an Altered State of Consciousness (how?). Then after they are left to attempt to replicate it by their own efforts. In essence, one question I am asking PBKs is, is the Altered State of Consciousness of the BKs the same as the experience of the PBKs? Do PBKs experience Altered State of Consciousness.

My feeling is that many PBKs here do not feel anything. Broadly, the attraction to the faith is conceptual or intellectual. At best, it might be considered as a fondness for Virendra Dev Dixit with the thought that he embodies God.

User avatar
jannisder
Friends and family of
Posts: 454
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: europe

Post by jannisder » 21 Sep 2007

ooohhhh boy ...

don't you see ... its all made up in your mind. It is You, and make what you believe, its in you're own mind. It is all so simple ... how come you do not understand???

User avatar
john
Reforming BK
Posts: 1606
Joined: 03 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: UK

Post by john » 21 Sep 2007

jannisder wrote:don't you see ... its all made up in your mind. It is You, and make what you believe, its in youre own mind. It is all so simple...ho come you do not understand???
Jannisder

What one doesn't believe or cannot feel/understand will appear made up. Tell me, if this is all made up, what is the truth?

User avatar
jannisder
Friends and family of
Posts: 454
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: europe

Post by jannisder » 21 Sep 2007

If we did ... know the truth ... we would make some arrangements to make truth happen. We do not know so we keep on wondering and searching for the truth ... But what is truth???

Is it not to be able to make your life happy, is it not to make yourself to believe for a better life ... and if so where is it??? I think that all beliefs are related to live on earth. "Make your own Golden Age, make your own heaven. Its up to you, how far you are in live experience and how much you have learned how can things hit you and how do you deal with it ... how do you deal with pain. Sorrow and how are your powers to make your live happy again.

I do not believe in any guru, or anyone else who wants to tell me how i HAVE to feel or deal with stuff. And, hey ... i survived!!!!

The only truth is YOU!!

Does this make any sense??

User avatar
abrahma kumar
Friends and family of
Posts: 1133
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Contact:

Post by abrahma kumar » 21 Sep 2007

It makes a lot of sense jannisder.

bkti-pit
BK
Posts: 274
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Post by bkti-pit » 21 Sep 2007

My understanding is that In the Sakar Murlis Baba mentions variety forms of remembrance: remember me, remember me alone, remember me in the home, remember the home, remember me and the inheritance, remember the land of peace and the land of happiness, have mukti in one eye and jeevanmukti in the other eye, consider yourself a soul and remember the Father etc, etc.

Then in the Avyakt Murlis he invites us to meet in the Subtle Regions where there is no limitation of space and time. At some other time I may share what my experience of the Avyakt meeting is.

It seems that different people have different ways to experiment with this. Some will find concentrating on a point of light difficult, some will find it easy. Some will get a good experience out of it, some will find it boring etc, etc, etc.

The bottom line for me about accurate remembrance is that it doesn't matter to me how you practice remembrance but if you have accurate remembrance you should be becoming a better person, that is more benevolent, peaceful, honest, caring, kind, stable, happy, etc. Everything else is useless.

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Post by fluffy bunny » 21 Sep 2007

If you care for a third party view, I have in front of me "Amnesia and Remembrance in a Hindu Theory of History" by Lawrence A Babb PhD. He spent time with original BKs in the late 70s in India as an anthrologist of SE Asian religion, especially the sect Lekhraj Kirpalani belonged to, and is broadly supportative of the BKs.

It is nice that it is all original, authentic, accurate and free of fluff. See your local academic library. Interesting off topic comments are that, "In Northern India it is a cultural fact that women are goddesses in their childhood prior to marriage", that "the movement infantilizes its members" and are engaged in an almost 'magic' "rite of renewal for the world".

Back back to the PBK experience ...
  • what do you feel NOT think or conceptualise?

andrey
PBK
Posts: 1288
Joined: 13 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Post by andrey » 21 Sep 2007

It is said that the one we remember so we become the same and that we fall down due to being colored by the colour of the many different companies, because we remember many different things and we rise by being colored by only one company. It is a matter of the soul that the intellect gets distracted.

Even Maya is said to come and pull the intellect that we like to remember something and remember something else instead. We also cannot remember the one purifier in the past because he used not be present, whilst the home, the land of happiness are always there as abstract conceptions. They are not there - here even now.

It is also said that we could bring about powerful transformation if we could have one and the same thought in one second, so is it correct if all remember different things. We could also remember human beings and imbibe their virtues, but why it is said that if we remember something else we'll become impure?

The matters is that all the modes of remembrance point to remembrance of just one thing, because through this the mind can concentrate, whilst the mind will degrade if it has to remember two or more things.

Then it is also said in the Murli that Christians remember Christ, so we remember our Father. Each one will remember his own religious Father, but because the supreme Father is Father to all - all remember him.

What do we feel? What should we feel? What do you feel when you remember your own Father or mother - it is the same but this is not phisical but spiritual. The matter is not what you feel, but we aim to cut all relationships with everyone and connect all relationships with one. Whether we love or hate we do to one. All relationships means in all different forms - mother, Father, husband, child that may bring different feelings. Generally, remembrance itself is called love this is what we do when we love - we remember the one we love again and again.

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Post by fluffy bunny » 21 Sep 2007

andrey wrote:What do we feel? What should we feel? What do you feel when you remember your own Father or mother - it is the same.
So, nothing basically? Its quite different from all the visions and experiences stuff that goes on at the BKs then.

Did PBKs ever experience them? What do they make of the so-called bodiless or Avyakt/Subtle Region experiences? Purely visions related to Bhakti?

Again, you go off into the mental and theoretical where really I was just asking about the practical, e.g. I feel warm, I feel love, I feel uplifted, my toes become warm or third eye tickles and so on. Are there any practical heart PBKs online or just 'head' cases?

If the PBKs are experiencing nothing more than remember one's physical grandfather, perhaps the BKs would question what benefit that brings wondering if it is God or just a kindly wise old man, and independent thinkers ask how that clears karma and fills one with power/peace/virtues etc.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests