Accurate remembrance

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suryavanshi
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Accurate remembrance

Post by suryavanshi » 03 Sep 2007

Can any PBK clarify the accurate method of remembrance of Baba ?

Also it is said that Sakar mein niraakaar ko Yaad karo ... toh is kaa deep meaning kya huaa? It is not as simple as remember the Supreme Soul in a body but there should be a deeper meaning to it ... because Baba's each and every word has a deep meaning attached to it.

Also , regarding Yaad one should remember whom Ram Baap or Shiv Baap ...

Please cite Murli points in support of your answer.

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Post by andrey » 03 Sep 2007

shivsena Bhai has come back

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Re: Accurate remembrance

Post by new knowledge » 03 Sep 2007

You are most welcome suryavanshi.
suryavanshi wrote:Can any PBK clarify the accurate method of remembrance of Baba ?
Dear bro suryavanshi, there are hundreds of Babas in BKWSU? Which Baba are you refering here?
Also it is said that Sakar mein niraakaar ko Yaad karo ... toh is kaa deep meaning kya huaa? It is not as simple as remember the Supreme Soul in a body but there should be a deeper meaning to it
We are guided to remember only one (the Supreme Father - God Shiva). And if we try to remember Him through a Saakaar Chariot, then indirectly the Chariot is also remembered. Then how to remember ONLY the Supreme Father if He cannot be remembered without Chariot?
... because Baba's each and every word has a deep meaning attached to it.
I think you've been inspired by shivsena. Welcome again. I am very grateful to him. But here to whom you are refering as Baba & which words of him have deeper meaning? Murli? Or its clarification through RamShivBaba whose incarnation is supposed to be in the near future by shivsena.
Also, regarding Yaad one should remember whom Ram Baap or Shiv Baap ...
Firstly, let us know who is this ShivBap? And according to shivsena, if nothing is gained through bindi Shiv, then why he calls him as ShivBap? How is he be entitled as Bap (ShivBap) though we do not receive any inheritance from him?
Please cite Murli points in support of your answer.
And also you please cite some Murli points in support of the existance of ShivBap.

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Post by suryavanshi » 03 Sep 2007

New Knowledge ,

I am referring to ShivBaba (Supreme Soul in His permanent Chariot of Virendra Dev Dixit). How can one remember incorporeal Supreme Soul? One cannot distinguish between souls because All souls are point of light.

Easy remembrance is possible only if He (Supreme Soul Shiv) comes in a body (saakaar). He comes and teaches sahaj (easy) Rajyog and not difficult rajyog. A soul cannot act without a body and also it is mentioned in the Murlis that I do not teach by inspiration. Therefore, He has to come in some body and play the part of the Father, Teacher (to clarify His Murlis) and Satguru. I do not know about shivsena ...

Whatever is spoken by Supreme Soul Shiv either through Brahma Baba( Dada Lekhraj) or through Prajapita (Baba - Virendra Dev Dixit) is a Murli. Here, I am talking about the words spoken through Prajapita (Soul of Ram). Shiv Bap is Supreme Soul Shiv.

Points in Murli to support His existence:
  • 1) Mein tum bacchon ko sath le jauungaa. (I will take all you children with me ). So how can He leave in between when He has made a promise. Also heaven is not established yet so how can He leave His task incomplete and go back to Paramdham

    2) A question is asked in the Murli as How can one say that Supreme Soul is speaking through someone's body ? The answer is that Supreme Soul Shiv will speak Gyan through that body ... He will speak such Gyan which no human soul on this earth would be capable of speaking.

    3) Also, in the Murli it is said that mein sadhaaran patit tan mein pravesh kartaa hoon (I enter into an ordinary impure body). Baba Virendra Dev Dixit can be easily recognised as ordinary personality.
I would come up with more points later.

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Post by andrey » 03 Sep 2007

Easy rajyog can be when there is natural love. In the Murli it is said that when the child sees his parents he goes and embraces them and needs not be thought this. We understand the unlimited Father is in this body and this body is also of the unlimited Father. Both the Father of souls and the Father of humanity are unlimited fathers and we remember both in one body.

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Post by arjun » 04 Sep 2007

new_knowledge wrote:We are guided to remember only one (the Supreme Father - God Shiva). And if we try to remember Him through a Saakaar Chariot, then indirectly the Chariot is also remembered. Then how to remember ONLY the Supreme Father if He cannot be remembered without Chariot?
suryavanshi wrote:I am referring to ShivBaba (Supreme Soul in His permanent Chariot of Veerendra Dev Dixit). How can one remember incorporeal Supreme Soul? One cannot distinguish between souls because All souls are point of light.
I agree with Suryavanshi. The direction given by ShivBaba to us children to remember Him through His Chariot is based only on this assumption that if we remember Father Shiv only as the point of light, then how would we distinguish between the Supreme Soul and the other souls?

If you say that remembering ShivBaba as Dashrath Patel Bhai is the best method, then that also does not seem rational because if Dashrath Patel's soul itself is the Supreme Soul then how can it take birth through the mother's womb? God is ajanma, abhokta and avinashi.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by andrey » 04 Sep 2007

In the Murli it is said that "Remember me", but also "Remember him" (pointing for the future part) and also "I am a point of light". Now here, there is a very slight speculation. It could be even said - "remember me the point of light", "yourself the point of light", but it is never said "remember the point of light" (means without the body) All these words used to be spoken when in a body - "remember me" - means the soul- point of light in the body - remember him - the future part.

The speculation is that it is taken "remember me" and "I am a point of light", to become remember the point of light, but this is not correct - to remember a point of light without a body, this is never said in the Murli. A soul, a point of light without a body is nonliving, whatever we remember we also become. We have to remember a living soul.

It is also said in the Murli that in the picture of the trimurtyi ShivBaba is missing. Why? Is he not the point of light on the top. No. ShivBaba is the meeting of the incorporeal with the corporeal, that's why it is said that he is not there in the picture.

It is said in the Avyakt Vanis that if there is no love there has to be effort. Love and hate we feel and express whilst in the body. For Brahma Baba rememberance used to be hard - effort. He has said in the Murli, "I sit to eat with the aim to stay in rememberance, eat two bits and forget". It is because he did not know the corporeal form of God. He used to think that "I am the corporeal form of God" (the form through which God works). It is hard to remember a point of light (just a point of light). There cannot be love or hate towards it. It is natural to love souls when they are in the body and God is also a soul that adopts a body on loan.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 05 Sep 2007

andrey wrote:It is hard to remember a point of light (just a point of light). There cannot be love or hate towards it.
I never understood why the BKs keep saying it is hard to remember a point of light. It is not. In a sense, all it seems to be to be is an admittance of there Bhakti dependencies/addictions, e.g. Krishna worship.

What could be easier than visualizing a point of light and using it as one connection to the divine spark or Shiva? Its as easy as flicking a switch. Light in the darkness.

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Post by bkdimok » 05 Sep 2007

ex-l wrote:What could be easier than visualizing a point of light and using it as one connection to the divine spark or Shiva? Its as easy as flicking a switch. Light in the darkness.
Om Shanti. Fully agree with you. It's much more easier than visualizing anything else. Even when I am visualizing BB and Shiva Baba in the subtle, I concentrate on their soul form in that fine body. You said right. We are allowed to meditate on Shiv Baba in a subtle form mainly because of our Bhakti sanskars and body-conscious.

With regards, Shankar

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Post by john » 05 Sep 2007

andrey wrote:It is hard to remember a point of light (just a point of light). There cannot be love or hate towards it. It is natural to love souls when they are in the body and God is also a soul that adopts a body on loan.
So are you saying accurate remembrance is, the corporeal body that God is in, the soul within the corporeal body or the body and soul together?

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Post by bansy » 05 Sep 2007

What's a soul ? Are we back to lesson 1. All this talk about souls entering this and that.

Now each and every body has a soul. Is this right ?

When that body ceases to function and the cells die, then the soul "leaves the body". Is this right? So a body can only be living when it has a soul. Thus "I am a soul". Is this right ?

Errr ... so a soul can only enter a body which is not alive, i.e. dead ?

OK, so back to a thread, so now the Supreme Soul who is unquely special will enter a body that already has a soul. When that body ceases to function when its cells die, then its own soul will leave that body, and poor Supreme Soul has to search for another bod.

Err, why cannot the Supreme Soul therefore simply enter a dead person in the first place, and thus make that body alive before some other soul from Paradham floats down and gets in there? Or in a better case, enter a feotus at 4-5 months ?

I have not yet sought to citing Murli points because no-one understands remembrance and may not really understand how a soul moves in and out of bodies. Generally, it is easy to regurgitate Murlis points (esp. if you have access to the Murlis). I feel the secret is in truly understanding what a soul actually is, how it lives and thrives, how it moves and goes. When talking about a Chariot, you've moved onto body stuff and multiple souls in a body.

PS: I am aware this thread was is first directed as a "PBK" question but I think has wider repercussions. It's a deep one, thanks Brother suryavanshi for setting it off. Admin, feel free to move this to another place, if appropriate.

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Post by suryavanshi » 05 Sep 2007

Dear All,

Remembering a point of light without the body is impractical. What would be obtained from that?

In Murli also , it is asked that Niraakaar sein Niraakaari varsaa chahiye kya? (Do you want the inheritance of becoming bodiless (soul without body) from the bodiless?) i.e. we don't have to leave this body and become incorporeal. What is the use or what is great about becoming incorporeal outside the body. It is about acheiving the stage of incorporeal (or Niraakaari stage) when the soul exist in the body. It would then be called as jivanmukti (i.e. freedom from life even though there is existence of life). It would then be some kind of great acheivement.Real niraakaari stage can only be experienced when the soul is inside the body. A soul cannot experience anything without the body. So, a soul without the body is helpless and body without the soul is also helpless. Therefore, both soul and body are important. And so remembering the Supreme Soul without the body is impractical.

Also, it is said in the Murli jaise ko Yaad karenge vaise aap banenge (i.e. you will become what you remember). So, if one remembers Supreme Soul outside the body or without the body , then one will also have to leave this body or in other words become without the body.

Also, it is said that 'ant mate so gate' (the final destiny of the soul would depend on what the soul remembers in its final momemts of life). So, whatever practice (method of remembrance) we adopt now, will reflect in the final moments of this life.

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Post by john » 05 Sep 2007

Yet, in the Murli it also says, 'do not remember the body'. It never says do not remember just the body, but the soul as well.
It is also mentioned in the Murli to remember Paramdham and Paramdham is described as the world of light beyond this physical universe.

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Post by suryavanshi » 05 Sep 2007

"Do not remember the body" means do not be body conscious but be soul conscious and question of becoming soul-conscious arises only when one is in the body. So, one can become soul conscious only in the body. How can one be soul-conscious outside the body. Soul does not experience anything outside the body. So, there is point in remembering our soul to be in Paramdham outside the body. That is not practical again.

It cannot be denied that there is gross Paramdham beyond this world of light and sound. In Paramdham, the souls are in the nirsankalpi stage or beejroop (seed form) stage.

When the soul develops this nirsankalpi stage in this body itself in this world of sound and light, then it is like equivalent to be in Paramdham or it is same as being in Paramdham (though not actually in Paramdham), although the soul in this gross world in this gross body.

So, when it is said that remember Paramdham or shantidham it means that set yourself in that nirsankalpi or beejroopi stage (stage of the soul when in gross Paramdham outside this body) in this body itself. And it does not mean that imagine the soul out of the body in gross Paramdham. That is again impractical.

ShivBaba has come to practically bring heaven on this earth. So, His Gyan should also be practical and not impractical. So, there is no point in remembering our soul to be in Paramdham outside the body. That is not practical again.

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Post by john » 05 Sep 2007

suryavanshi wrote:So, when it is said that remember Paramdham or shantidham it means that set yourself in that nirsankalpi or beejroopi stage (stage of the soul when in gross Paramdham outside this body) in this body itself. And it does not mean that imagine the soul out of the body in gross Paramdham. That is again impractical.
So are you saying gross Paramdham is not to be remembered at all?
ShivBaba has come to practically bring heaven on this earth. So, His Gyan should also be practical and not impractical.
What makes remembrance practical or impractical if it is all in the Intellect/mind/thoughts ?
Also, it is said that 'ant mate so gate' (the final destiny of the soul would depend on what the soul remembers in its final momemts of life). So, whatever practice (method of remembrance) we adopt now, will reflect in the final moments of this life.
So what is the destination of someone who remembers Shiva in the Soul World and what is the destiny of someone who remembers Shiva in a Chariot? What if they remember in the wrong Chariot?

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