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For those who wish to narrate their experiences about the BKs and PBK 'Advanced Knowledge' and post views about their NEW beliefs.
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shivsena
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Re: PBK Shivsena's beliefs

Post by shivsena » 19 Nov 2008

arjun wrote: But I have heard from Baba that the role of the Father was played in the beginning to sow the seed of knowledge and the role of the Father will be played again in the end to give the inheritance. Since 1976 ShivBaba (through Veerendra Dev Dixit) has been playing the role of a teacher. The sadguru's role will also be played in the end.

Dear arjun Bhai.
And what about the mother's role through Brahma(Lekhraj Kirpalani); As per advance knowledge it was played by Shiva through Dada Lekhraj; So it means that first Shiva played role of Father through' sevakram (which has still not been proved to be Ram's soul) and then Shiva played role of mother through Lekhraj Kirpalani till 1969(which again has never been mentioned in any Murli) and then from 1969 to 1976 we do not know the role of Shiva and then again from 1976 till today the role of teacher is going on, inspite of which there is still ignorance and confusion and dis-unity among PBKs. I just do not know how many PBKs can digest this story.

shivsena.

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Re: PBK Shivsena's beliefs

Post by arjun » 19 Nov 2008

shivsena wrote:and then Shiva played role of mother through Lekhraj Kirpalani till 1969(which again has never been mentioned in any Murli)
There are hundreds of Murlis where it has been said that this Brahma is your badee ma (senior mother).

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Re: PBK Shivsena's beliefs

Post by shivsena » 19 Nov 2008

arjun wrote:There are hundreds of Murlis where it has been said that this Brahma is your badee ma (senior mother).
Yes--there are many Murlis which say that ''brahma is badi Maa", but my argument is that who played the role of badi Maa?? was it Shiva who played the role or was it Dada Lekhraj brahma, with Shiva just narrating the Murlis every morning; Murlis always say that ''this is your badi Maa'', never said ''i am your badi Maa". If PBKs believe it was Shiva who played the role of mother then which Murli says directly "i am your mother too and bap-teacher-Satguru too".
The roles of each soul have to be clearly defined: who(either Shiva-Ram-Krishna) played which role through which Chariot.

shivsena.

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Re: PBK Shivsena's beliefs

Post by andrey » 20 Nov 2008

It is said "You are mother, you are Father". Whom is it said for?

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Re: PBK Shivsena's beliefs

Post by arjun » 20 Nov 2008

shivsena wrote:Yes--there are many Murlis which say that ''Brahma is badi Maa", but my argument is that who played the role of badi Maa?? was it Shiva who played the role or was it Dada Lekhraj Brahma, with Shiva just narrating the Murlis every morning; Murlis always say that ''this is your badi Maa'', never said ''i am your badi Maa". If PBKs believe it was Shiva who played the role of mother then which Murli says directly "i am your mother too and bap-teacher-Satguru too".
I think it is Shiv who played the role of a mother through Brahma and is playing the role of a Father through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit. I was listening to a disc.CD no. 479 (time 14.40-16.50) recently wherein a PBK mother asked the same doubt that sometimes ShivBaba (through Veerendra Dev Dixit) says that Brahma (Dada Lekhraj) is the mother and sometimes he says that Shiv played the role of mother through Dada Lekhraj. ShivBaba (through Veerendra Dev Dixit) replied that it is the bodily being who gets the attainment for any part that is played. He said that although Shiv played the role of a mother through Brahma but it is Brahma who gets the fame for the attainments of that part. It is not as if Shiv tolerated through Brahma so He will become instrumental in making others tolerate in the next birth (to settle the karmic account). The body through which the part of toleration was played, the soul of that bodily being will become instrumental in making the concerned souls to tolerate (in the future births to settle the accounts).

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Re: PBK Shivsena's beliefs

Post by shivsena » 24 Nov 2008

Dear arjun Bhai.

Many times it is said in Murlis "hear no evil, speak no evil, see no evil....".
Can you please give your views as to what is this evil in this behad ka drama, which Shiva is speaking about??

shivsena.

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Re: PBK Shivsena's beliefs

Post by arjun » 26 Nov 2008

shivsena wrote:Many times it is said in Murlis "hear no evil, speak no evil, see no evil....".
Can you please give your views as to what is this evil in this behad ka drama, which Shiva is speaking about??
I can derive only a literal meaning from the above phrase, but for a staunch BK, whatever PBKs/ex-BKs/other parties say may be evil. Similarly, for a stauch PBK, whatever ex-PBK groups teach may be evil.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: PBK Shivsena's beliefs

Post by shivsena » 30 Nov 2008

arjun wrote: I can derive only a literal meaning from the above phrase, but for a staunch BK, whatever PBKs/ex-BKs/other parties say may be evil. Similarly, for a stauch PBK, whatever ex-PBK groups teach may be evil.
Arjun
Dear arjun Bhai.
So everything in this world is just relative to what one's beliefs are; as you said, for a bk, all knowledge except bk knowledge is evil and for a pbk, all ex-pbk knowledge is evil. This clearly proves that there is no truth in either bk or pbk knowledge, as absoulte truth can never be termed as evil by any soul or any sect or any religion of the world [no one has any power or guts to point a finger towards truthful knowledge of Gyan-surya]

Also first we have to define what is evil in this behad ka drama. I feel that any knowledge which takes us further away from truth (personified Ramshivbaba not bindishivbaba), any knowledge which cannot unite souls in one brotherhood under one Father, any knowledge which does not give us any salvation or sadgati (for last 70 years), any knowledge which leads souls to durgati for last 70 years is evil knowledge (in behad ka sense) and it is this evil mayavi knowledge which Shiva's Murlis repeatedly mention to avoid (and not the worldly knowledge and scriptures).

Advance knowledge teaches that Ram is prajapita, Ram is no.1 patit kami kanta, Ram is Ravan, Ram is Sangamyug Krishna, Ram is Bharat etc etc (which is directly contradictory to what is said in Murlis); so i feel that the whole advance knowledge which takes us away from the personified practical swaroop of God Ramshivbaba and causing durgati of PBKs, can be considered to be evil and should be avoided as per the Murli statements of Shiva.

shivsena.

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Re: PBK Shivsena's beliefs

Post by andrey » 30 Nov 2008

Dear brother shivsena,

In the library you have posted a document with the various beliefs of the various rosaries. From other side you tell it is Maya’s/ Krisha’s part to separate the rosaries. Then what is your part in separating them? If you say whatever you have studied advance knowledge is mayavi lie then after studying this to become Mayavi is not a surprise. We know from the Murlis the way Maya operates, as you do. First she tries to separate us from the Father.

You may be strong in your opinion, but if you are not God, then on your own with your own ideas you cannot change everyone. Even if just two people who may have one and the same idea, will be stronger than you. It is said that transformation will happen when all the Brahmins have one idea in one second.

I have remarked about you that we don’t like to listen to your ideas, so why do you narrate them and of course this is not correct. You are free to express whatever you like. I think it is only the manner of a teacher that you adopt that prevents others from listening to you. Come on brother, take it easy. We are brothers, aren’t we? We are equal, aren’t we? Or have you become king and have we become subjects. And is it Raja Yoga about adopting dignity, or what.

Seems you have some enmity with ShivBaba, BKs and PBKs. The soul of Prajapita or the Brahmin family could be in degradation or not, but it does not mean we have to leave them because of this. We have to be together in good and bad times both, isnt it? One of the 4 types of faith is in the family. And if we have faith in the everpure one, our upliftment will surely come one day. This family is still your family nomatter if it is degraded or not. It is your family and it is better than any other, because it is real. Other is some imaginary rosary you may have thought you belong to and some imaginary ShivBaba in future you don’t practically have. See you even lose time here to share with us because we are close to you.

There is an interesting quote from the Koran. For me it is regarding the entering of the soul of Dada Lekraj in the soul of Ram or about combining the Laksmi and Narayan. There can also be other unlimited meanings, like sight gets blind – which sight, moon gets dark – the soul of Krishna through Jagadamba in the form of Kali etc.

75 sura resurrection

"When will the resurrection come. When the sight gets blind, when the moon gets dark, when the Sun and Moon combine."

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Re: PBK Shivsena's beliefs

Post by shivsena » 01 Dec 2008

andrey wrote:
75 sura resurrection;
"When will the resurrection come. When the sight gets blind, when the moon gets dark, when the Sun and Moon combine."
Dear brother andrey.

That is exactly what i am trying to say: only when the sun(Gyan-surya Ramshivbaba) and moon(Gyan chandrama brahma-Krishna) will combine(Ramshivbaba controls prajapita brahma), then salvation and sadgati and liberation will come; till such time comes in future, the moon(Krishna alias brahma alias Bharat) will become darker and more patit and brastachari and insolvent in all respects during the period brahma ki raat and PBKs sight will get blind, and at the end of this behad ki raat personified Ramshivbaba will come and make Bharat into 100%shreshtachari and 100% solvent. This is what i feel.

You have quoted a very good quote from koran, but i am sorry to say that you have not interpretated it in light of the present happenings in the Advance Party.
Can you give your interpretation about when will the sun and moon get combined and whose sight will get blind and how will the moon get dark.

shivsena.

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Re: PBK Shivsena's beliefs

Post by andrey » 17 Dec 2008

In the VCD 618, it is said that because it is Trimurti shiv, there is degradation in the Brahmin family during the time of the activity of the first personality and also during the activity of the second personality, and at the end of the activity of the second personality and the start of the activity of the third personality one soul achieves salvation in the mind only.

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Re: PBK Shivsena's beliefs

Post by shivsena » 17 Dec 2008

arjun wrote:The above Murli point does not say that all three roles are played simultaneously.
Dear arjun Bhai.
Quoting a Murli point which clearly says that the role of Bap-teacher-Satguru is combined and played simultaneously.

Murli 26-2-97 says, "Ek ko Yaad karo toh teeno hi Yaad padenge kyonki teeno hi combined hain. Khud hi Bap-teacher-Satguru hai, so bhi accurate." (meaning that "If you remember one then you will remember all 3, as all 3 are combined. He himself is Bap-teacher-Satguru.'')

The above Murli clearly says the part of Bap-teacher-Satguru is combined, and not seperately as advance knowledge teaches the PBKs.

shivsena.

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Re: PBK Shivsena's beliefs

Post by arjun » 18 Dec 2008

Dear Shivsena Bhai,
The above Murli point does say that all three parts are played through the same personality, but it does not mention that all three roles are played simultaneously. Here is a Murli point to prove that these roles are played at different time:
"5-6 sau karod aatmaen hain. Sabko varsa detey hain - sukh va shaanti ka. Baap aakar Teacher roop say padhaatey hain. Fir Satguru ban saath ley jaatey hain." - Revised Sakar Murli dated 27.08.08, pg.3

"There are 5-6 hundred crore souls. He gives the inheritance of happiness or peace to everyone. The Father comes and teaches in the form of a Teacher. Then he takes (the children) with him in the form of a Satguru." - Revised Sakar Murli dated 27.08.08, pg.3 published by BKs.

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Re: PBK Shivsena's beliefs

Post by shivsena » 19 Dec 2008

Dear arjun Bhai.

I leave the decision to each pbk to decide whether the part of Bap-teacher-Satguru is played in parts through different bodies from 1937 or in combined form, sometime in future; i firmly believe that Ramshivbaba(personified God and not bindi shiv) will play the combined part of Bap-teacher-Satguru in future, which will be the beginning of brahma ka din.

shivsena.

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Re: PBK Shivsena's beliefs

Post by andrey » 19 Dec 2008

We don't claim the role of Father, Teacher, Sadguru is played through different bodies. We claim it is played through one body. It is because you don't accept the role of the teahcer that is being played now, that you don't see three roles in one body in different times. We also claim the part of sadguru will be played throught the same personality in future.

You claim three roles will be played through one body in combined form in one at the same time, but can this be so? When it is time of learning it is time for learning (part of teacher) and when it is time for testing (the role of sadguru) it is not time for leaning anymore (part of teacher cannot be played at that time). When result (inheritance) comes (role of Father) there is neither learning nor testing anymore.

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