AK false teaching about Krishna

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nivi
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Re: AK false teaching about Krishna

Post by nivi » 11 May 2011

shivsena wrote: Meeting old pals and acquaintances does not mean that she secretly plans to come back to the Yagya.....she has said many times to me that inspite of whatever happened in past, we can meet from lokik point as friends who shared some good times together.....so Mama meeting old PBKs does not mean a thing to me....yes--for some PBKs it may mean a lot, as they still have hopes that she will come back to the Yagya as jagdamba.....but i have no hope whatsoever.....she herself was never convinced that she is jagdamba in the first place ... so there is no question of her returning back and i hope that the earlier the PBKs accept this fact, it will be better for them.
As usual you are twisting, turning, distorting facts and events to your advantage. Jagadamba was just a child of nine years age in '76 when she first surrendered( who do you think inspired this child when no one was there?? She must have recognized her big part in this Sangam Yuga at some point) and only after her all those Kanya's and Mothers have surrendered. Even in Avyakt Vani Baapdada made this announcement pertaining to her part. What more proof do you need..The Pbk family is continuing to grow ever since..So, that right there is a sign that people have faith in Jagadamba's Part. Even Baba has said 3 seats have been fixed- Brahma, Baap and Jagadamba!

Nivi

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Re: AK false teaching about Krishna

Post by arjun » 11 May 2011

shivsena wrote:Meeting old pals and acquaintances does not mean that she secretly plans to come back to the Yagya
She is meeting many current PBKs regularly.
so there is no question of her returning back and i hope that the earlier the PBKs accept this fact, it will be better for them.
It is your Om Radhey Mama who can never come back to the Brahmin family in her original form or in a new body of her own in this Confluence Age. In order to hide the shortcomings of your imaginary theory, you are maligning another lady who cannot even defend herself on this forum. Neither can Om Radhey Mama.

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Re: AK false teaching about Krishna

Post by ANU » 11 May 2011

nivi wrote:Jagadamba was just a child of nine years age in '76 when she first surrendered( who do you think inspired this child when no one was there?? She must have recognized her big part in this Sangam Yuga at some point) and only after her all those Kanya's and Mothers have surrendered.
Had she recognized her part why would she have written in her letter that she was forced to surrender by her mother against her will? The other thing, she did not surrender in 76 but in 1983 at the age of 13. AK classes contain teachings that she hardly understood basic gyaan. How to speak about self-recognition then?

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Re: AK false teaching about Krishna

Post by arjun » 11 May 2011

anu wrote:Had she recognized her part why would she have written in her letter that she was forced to surrender by her mother against her will?
This statement needs to be verified. Even if it is true, I have met Mama many times before the unfortunate incidents in 1998 and her body language never showed that she was carrying out the responsibility of Yagya mother under duress.
The other thing, she did not surrender in 76 but in 1983 at the age of 13.
If she was nine in 1976, then she would be 16/17 years old in 1983.

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Re: AK false teaching about Krishna

Post by ANU » 11 May 2011

arjun wrote:If she was nine in 1976, then she would be 16/17 years old in 1983.
Sorry, around 16; depending on her date of birth.
arjun wrote:This statement needs to be verified. Even if it is true, I have met Mama many times before the unfortunate incidents in 1998 and her body language never showed that she was carrying out the responsibility of Yagya mother under duress.
Nothing unusual in my opinion. Hiding unfavorable feelings and thoughts is typical for Indian mothers and kanyans. They seldom have coureage and power stand in oposition to what their parents decide for them. In Jagadamba's letter people who I brought to the Yagya read and signed (I witnessed this) the statement that she was forced by her mother to do this against her will (maybe my translation here is not exactly like that sentence; for sure she wrote that she was forced and that it was against her will). Forcing someone to surrender remains completely opposite to how teaching should take place and how gyaan should be communicated. Acc. to AK, forcing someone is a Muslim sanskar.

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Re: AK false teaching about Krishna

Post by shivsena » 11 May 2011

ANU wrote: In Jagadamba's letter people who I brought to the Yagya read and signed (I witnessed this) the statement that she was forced by her mother to do this against her will (maybe my translation here is not exactly like that sentence; for sure she wrote that she was forced and that it was against her will). Forcing someone to surrender remains completely opposite to how teaching should take place and how gyaan should be communicated. Acc. to AK, forcing someone is a Muslim sanskar.
Dear anu .
You are right about kamla devi surrendering after being coaxed by her mother...she has openly told many PBKs about this surrender...she never realised at the time of surrender that she was jagdamba and she has never realised this till today....when she was surrendered she was called baby by some senior matas who have personally told me this...she was called mummy only after 1990 when about 11 kanyas got surrendered in Kampil.

shivsena.

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Re: AK false teaching about Krishna

Post by pbkindiana » 11 May 2011

Anu wrote:
Forcing someone to surrender remains completely opposite to how teaching should take place and how gyaan should be communicated. Acc. to AK, forcing someone is a Muslim sanskar.
young girls are never forced to join any Yagya as they follow their mother willingly and what more to say girls in India, there is no compulsion for them to attend classes. If she was forced then when Baba Dixit told her not to leave the Yagya when He was in prison, then did Jagadamba Maa listen to Baba. She left on her own free will.

indie.

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Re: AK false teaching about Krishna

Post by pbkindiana » 11 May 2011

shivsena wrote:
You are right about kamla devi surrendering after being coaxed by her mother
Is it a crime to coax your daughter when the mother has realized Godfather's role being played practically in this world. It will melt your heart if you say similarly that your mateeshwari was coaxed by her mother to join the bk Yagya.


indie.

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Re: AK false teaching about Krishna

Post by ANU » 11 May 2011

indie wrote:young girls are never forced to join any Yagya as they follow their mother willingly and what more to say girls in India, there is no compulsion for them to attend classes. If she was forced then when Baba Dixit told her not to leave the Yagya when He was in prison, then did Jagadamba Maa listen to Baba. She left on her own free will.
Dear indie
I don't know what you are trying to prove above. If Jagadamba says in her letter of leaving the Yagya that she was forced and she joined the Yagya against her will and you say that young girls are never forced, then I understand that you have checked all the cases of young surrendered girls in the Yagya to be able to state this, and Jagadamba lied in her letter. Let it be this way :confused: It becomes clear that someone lies....

But if she doesn't want to be mentioned in the Yagya and she wanted to leave, I cannot understand why people in the Yagya desire something from her and burden her with their thoughts for so many years? In my opinion it is also a kind of forcing which means violence. If AK teaches freedom, they should let Jagadamba do what she wants to do without their desiring her to be with them. Let her be free and live her life. Why to be a burden on someone's neck? If she doesn't want to be a mother, do AIVV have to force her to be this? For what reason?

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Re: AK false teaching about Krishna

Post by arjun » 11 May 2011

shivsena wrote:You are right about kamla devi surrendering after being coaxed by her mother...she has openly told many PBKs about this surrender...she never realised at the time of surrender that she was jagdamba and she has never realised this till today....when she was surrendered she was called baby by some senior matas who have personally told me this...she was called mummy only after 1990 when about 11 kanyas got surrendered in Kampil.
I cannot say anything about the circumstances under which Mama (Kamala Devi) surrendered her life for Godly service, but I have seen her practically clarifying Murlis/Avyakt Vanis in Delhi and also saw her managing the construction work of Delhi mini-Madhubans and she never gave me a feeling that she is not Yagya mata.

Yes, it may be true that for many years after she was made instrumental as yagyamata, many senior PBKs must not have accepted her as Yagya mata. This was the case with Om Radhey Mama as well. It was only when Brahma Baba also started addressing and treating her as Mama that other BK sisters (like Prakashmani Dadi, Janaki Dadi, etc.) started treating her as Mama. In case of Kamala Devi she was much younger than Om Radhey Mama and it would have taken time for her as well as others to realize that she is Yagya mata. For many years she lived away from Baba managing the affairs of AIVV in Delhi. So, she must have been influenced by the PBKs who were supporting the cause of construction of Delhi mini-Madhubans (including Dashrath Patel). When Baba was arrested in Kampil, she must have relied on the opinions of some PBKs (many of whom are no longer PBKs) and was influenced by them.

So, shivsena's statement that she never realized that she was Jagdamba is based on false assumptions.

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Re: AK false teaching about Krishna

Post by ANU » 11 May 2011

arjun wrote:but I have seen her practically clarifying Murlis/Avyakt Vanis in Delhi and also saw her managing the construction work of Delhi mini-Madhubans and she never gave me a feeling that she is not Yagya mata.
Maybe the eyes see according to what the mind was told to see and the person turns blind eye to other signals.
arjun wrote:In case of Kamala Devi she was much younger than Om Radhey Mama and it would have taken time for her as well as others to realize that she is Yagya mata.
If till today she hasn't realised that she is not the Mother of the World, which resulted in her leaving Yagya and getting married, she must not have revealed herself as such so that the others could recognised her. According to AK first the soul realises itself, then only the others can recognise it. If she herself did not recognise herself, we may conclude that the others were likely to only repeat what they are told by Baba Virendra Dev Dixit without recognising her as Jagadamba - this is my conclusion from AK overall teaching about self-recognition and revelation and recognition by the others.

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Re: AK false teaching about Krishna

Post by arjun » 11 May 2011

anu wrote:Maybe the eyes see according to what the mind was told to see and the person turns blind eye to other signals.
Did you ever meet her as 'Tharun Mitthal' to make such comments??? If you haven't, then why are you making assumptions about me when you don't like me to make assumptions about you?
If till today she hasn't realised that she is not the Mother of the World, which resulted in her leaving Yagya and getting married, she must not have revealed herself as such so that the others could recognised her. According to AK first the soul realises itself, then only the others can recognise it. If she herself did not recognise herself, we may conclude that the others were likely to only repeat what they are told by Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit without recognising her as Jagadamba - this is my conclusion from AK overall teaching about self-recognition and revelation and recognition by the others.
This is again your false assumption about others. The above statement indicates that you may not have met her in person so far. I hope you won't mind this assumption as you have also started making assumptions about me. ;-)

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Re: AK false teaching about Krishna

Post by ANU » 11 May 2011

I have no idea what is in her mind. I only can conclude based on her behavior. She left the Yagya, allegedly got married (to be confirmed) and left two very strong letters in which she expressed that she was forced to surrender, that it happened against her will and that she doesn't want the others use her name as Jagadamba.

It seems to me that a person who realised himself/herself in the Yagya does not behave like this. So, in whatever light I saw her when I was so deeply influenced by Baba Virendra Dev Dixit that I turn blind eye to any inconsistency present in his teaching, this light does not exist any more. I did not think like this earlier, because I did not want to admit any inconsistency and ambiguity in AK teachings; I did not think, simply accepted what Baba told me. And I perceived her in the light Baba told me.

Today, in order to verify points from AK, I use my own thoughts and psychological knowledge about how people behave and based on this I come to conclusions. So, when someone tells me that he never saw Jagadamba "giving me a feeling that she is not Yagya mata" [arjun], I apply to this psychologycal knowledge and come to some conclusion. They nothing more than my private conclusions, my private opinions.

Furthermore, when I analyse the point from AK that first off all the soul has to recognise and realise itself, then the others may recognise it, I conclude, based on my first conclusion that Jagadamba might not have recognised herself becasue she behave like described above, that the others may not have recognised her. I am among them. That's all. Everything is my own, private opinion based on my thinking and simple logic.

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Re: AK false teaching about Krishna

Post by nivi » 11 May 2011

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

The greatest aim Shiv Baba has given us in this Confluence Age is to become direct man to Narayan and women to Lakshmi. They alone represent the perfect man and women i.e. Vishnu roop, as world sovereign! The whole world will recognize them as masters of this world as they become world Emperor and world Empress of this Sangam Yuga Golden Age..The scriptures also speak so highly of them. Baba has never said our aim should be to follow or become Jagadama even though she gets all pomps and pageantry in this Sangam Yuga... If someone is on this Godly path based on Jagadamba or breaks away from this Godly path because of her it is a big loss for them. I guess this is the process of how all the insects and bugs get weeded out, in other words the process of house cleaning. Only those who have unshakable firm,faith in Baba would remain till the end. So, if Shivsena wants to follow in devi mothers footstep or become world mothers helper that is really his choice. Baba has already said mothers take so much burden to care for family, but get little in return... Mother's don't get inheritance.

Nivi

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Re: AK false teaching about Krishna

Post by arjun » 12 May 2011

anu wrote:They nothing more than my private conclusions, my private opinions.
When you can express private opinions about others based on their statements, you should also be tolerant when others express their private opinions based on your statements.

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