Ex-PBK Shivsena's beliefs

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Ex-PBK Shivsena's beliefs

Post by new knowledge » 29 Oct 2007

Welcome shivsena. I am very glad to see you here again. I've some queries regarding your point of view. I am going to quote them here step by step in this thread. Dear admin please do not merge this thread elsewhere. I'll not mix Vishnu Party philosophy here, as this is PBK forum. Answering is not compulsory. Let's have a healthy conversation. Okay?
  • 1) Who is this Bindi ShivBap to whom you are refering in most of your articles?
    2) How he (ShivBap) differs from Shiv baba?
    3) What are his attributes/qualities?
    4) You strongly argue that in Murlis, ShivBap had not quoted any statement about himself, then how logically we should accept the existence of ShivBap? You believe in Murlis.
    Then quote some Murli points which absolutely prove the existence of ShivBap. Does ShivBap has his own existance? Or is he just your intellectual creation??????
    5) According to you, bindi ShivBap is neither omniscient nor Ocean of Knowledge, then how could he deliver Murlis through Brahma?
    6) And if (according to you) ShivBap is not the Supreme Father, then why are you refering him as ShivBap? is not the Hindi word 'bap' (meaning Father) indicating that ShivBap is the Father?

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Ex-PBK shivsena

Post by shivsena » 29 Oct 2007

Dear brother.

You queries are most relevant and i welcome them. i was expecting such queries but it is just not possible for me to put my thoughts on paper regarding these queries. i can give answers to your queries only when we have a face to face discussion. i was expecting you to come to my place for a healthy chat as you had promised but you have not yet turned up and i am still waiting for that day.
Till then happy churning.
shivsena.

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Post by shivsena » 30 Oct 2007

Dear brother.

You have asked me many complex queries, for which i have expressed my inability to answer them on paper and i ask you to pardon me for this shortcoming; now i am just asking you a very simple query which you can answer very easily and this in turn will answer many of your queries which you put to me.

Query to all bk and pbk brothers.

Is there is any soul (in the bk or pbk family) who attains 100% incorporeal stage, like Shiva (nirakari stage i.e. totally devoid of body consciousness) after coming in this Godly knowledge.

If the answer is YES, then which is that soul ?? and if the answer is NO, then why it is repeatedly said in Amrit Vela that we have to attain ''Nirakari, Nirvikari, and Nirahankari'' stage like the Father.

If you can answer this simple query, then you will understand all the queries you have put to me (there will be no need for me to answer them).

shivsena.

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Post by new knowledge » 30 Oct 2007

shivsena wrote:You have asked me many complex queries, for which I have expressed my inability to answer them on paper and I ask you to pardon me for this shortcoming;
Thanks for your broadmindedness.
now I am just asking you a very simple query which you can answer very easily and this in turn will answer many of your queries which you put to me.
You mean secrets of 'ShivBap' are hidden in the answer of this very simple query. This means that you know the secrets of 'ShivBap'. Then what's problem to open those recrets here? Instead of doing so, why are you asking me to find that secrets in the answer of this simple query?
Query to all BK and PBK Brothers. Is there is any soul (in the BK or PBK family) who attains 100% incorporeal stage, like Shiva (nirakari stage ie. totally devoid of body consciousness) after coming in this Godly knowledge.

If the answer is YES, then which is that soul ?? and if the answer is NO, then why it is repeatedly said in av. Vanis that we have to attain ''Nirakari, Nirvikari, and Nirahankari'' stage like the Father.
I know, for you & PBKs, the answer is the soul of (Ram) ShivBaba, who attains 100% incorporeal stage, i.e, completely devoid of body-consciousness. But here again the existance & relevance of Bindi ShivBap is not acceptable, as Bindi stage cannot be regarded as incorporeal stage. Incorporeal stage means 'completely devoid of body-consciousness & that Bindi ShivBap, you are refering, does not have his own body; then the question of being his incorporeal stage does not arise at all.

Bindi ShivBap may be equivalent to a 'geometrical point'. But incorporeal stage is much much more than a 'geometrical point'. So Bindi ShivBap (as considered by you) does not have incorporeal stage.
THEN HOW COULD YOU CLAIM THAT THE SOUL OF Rambap ACHIEVES 100% INCORPOREAL STAGE DUE TO THE PRESENCE OF BINDI (& NOT INCORPOREAL) ShivBap IN HIS (Rambap'S) OWN BODY ...? What's the relevance of Bindi ShivBap for the soul of Ram to achieve incorporeal stage?
If you can answer this simple query, then you will understand all the queries you have put to me (there will be no need for me to answer them)
I think there will be need for you to answer your queries, as my poor intellect could not trace the existance & relevance of Bindi ShivBap.

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Post by new knowledge » 31 Oct 2007

My dear brother shivsena, now I ask you very simple questions about which I expect you should not have any problem to discuss here in this public forum.

You argue that Sachchee Gita (delivered by RamShivBaba) will be instrumental to seperate out 108 Rudramala King quality souls from 16,000 PBK Royal Praja quality souls in near future (from 2009 onwards) & Ghootee Gita, i.e, advance knowledge (delivered by Krishna's soul) seperated out 16,108 PBK souls from 9,00,000 BK souls from 1976 onwards. Similarly, from 1937 (or whatever may be the year in your mind) onwards, 9,16,108 Sangamyugi Brahmin family souls are being seperated out from 700 crore world population. While going through the summary of your thoughts, as mentioned here, some queries crop up in my mind.

1) If Ghutee Gita (delivered by Krishna's soul) could seperate out 16,108 PBK souls from 9,00,000 BK souls, then why Sachchee Gita (by RamShivBaba) is essential to seperate out 108 Rudramala souls from 16,000 souls....?
In both situations, the similar process of seperation of a small group of souls from a big group of souls takes place. Then why in the first situation (i.e, seperation of 108 souls from 16,000 souls), Sachchee Gita is supposed (by you) to play its role & in the second situation (i.e, seperation of 16,108 souls from 9,00,000 souls), Ghutee Gita is supposed (by you) to play its role??? Why not either Sachchee or Ghutee Gita could work in both situations?? It's also important to know that in 1937 neither Sachchee Gita nor Ghoota Gita was available, then from 1937 onwards, in the absence of both Geetas, how could 9,16,108 Sangamyugi Brahmin family souls seperate out from 700 crore world population? in short, RamShivBaba or His Sachchee Gita works neither in the process of seperation of 9,16,108 souls from 700 crore population nor in the process of seperation of 16,108 souls from 9,00,000 souls, then why seperation of 108 souls requires interference of RamShivBaba & His Sachchee Gita?

2) Again according to you, RamShivBaba becomes instrumental to seperate out 108 Rudrama souls from 16,000 PBK Royal family souls & Krishna's soul becomes instrumental to seperate out 16,108 PBK souls from 9,00,000 BK souls, then who is instrumental to seperate out 9,16,108 Sangamyugi Brahmin family souls from 700 crore world population??

3) You claim that in the process of seperation of 9,16,108 souls from 700 crore souls, SamgamYugi Brahmin family degraded & disintegrated into two parts - BKs & PBKs; and during the process of seperation of 16,108 souls from 9,00,000 souls, Brahmin family rapidly degraded & splitted into several small groups. Then logically we have to accept that also in seperation of 108 souls from 16,000 souls, our Brahmin family will undergo more degradation & it will split into more peaces.
Thus if during seperation of 16,108 souls from 9,00,000 souls & seperation of 9,16,108 souls from 700 crore population, the whole Brahmin family faced degradation & disintigration; then how could you expect that during seperation of 108 souls from 16,000 souls, Brahmin family will undergo upliftment & unification??

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Re: The use of music during BK meditation

Post by bkdimok » 31 Oct 2007

shivsena wrote: So Shrimat is not being followed in BK centers nor the PBK centers.
Om Shanti. And what do you suggest?

Shankar

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Re: The use of music during BK meditation

Post by shivsena » 31 Oct 2007

bkdimok wrote:Om Shanti. And what do you suggest?
Dear bkdimok.

I feel that the senior BKs and PBKs have done enough of Bhakti and have not been progressing spiritually nor understanding the secrets of Godly knowledge given in the Murlis; the BKs have been listening like a parrot to the senior sisters and Dadis and the PBKs have been listening to cds and vcds without understanding anything and just nodding their heads to whatever is said therein. So now i feel, that it is high time, that each and every soul (bk or pbk) who is ambitious to be in the rosary of 108 souls should do some very hard introspection and start reading the Murlis himself, as all the answers are in the Murlis (whether original or revised).

This whole Godly study is like passing a exam whereby you have to pass through 3 stages viz, first stage is to recognise Krishna's soul (Lekhraj Kirpalani) through basic knowledge, then in second stage one has to recognise Ram's soul (Virendra Dev Dixit) through advance knowledge and finally the last exam is to find out the roles of Ram and Krishna in the body of Virendra Dev Dixit (i.e. to find out who is the rachieta-creator-alaf and rachna-creation-Be). Once you have found out who is 'Alaf and Be' then the whole knowledge will make a lot of sense.

OK more later.
shivsena.

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Re: The use of music during BK meditation

Post by bkdimok » 31 Oct 2007

shivsena wrote:OK, more later. shivsena.
Om. I can smell pride even from here.

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Re: The use of music during BK meditation

Post by shivsena » 31 Oct 2007

bkdimok wrote:Om. I can smell pride even from here.
If you can smell pride, then why ask me for my suggestion in the first place.
shivsena

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Re: The use of music during BK meditation

Post by shivsena » 31 Oct 2007

john wrote:And what about God Father Shiva is he not worth finding? You claim others are still doing Bhakti, yet you seem more interested in the chariots?
Dear john Bhai.

I never claimed that i am not doing Bhakti. I did Bhakti for 9 years in BKs from 1984 and then i did subtle Bhakti in PBKs from 1993, even now i am doing Bhakti (i am not in Gyan-marg, in fact, no one is in Gyan marg). All BKs and PBKs are doing varying degrees of Bhakti according to their understanding of knowledge. True Gyan-marg will begin only when Ram's soul attains the 100% incorporeal stage and starts giving true Gita-Gyan. Till then, i am just trying to read and churn the Murlis intensely and trying to understand what is being said in Murlis and Amrit Vela, and whatever conclusion i have drawn, i wish to share it with my brothers.

I am not interested in the chariots. I am only interested in knowing the roles of Ram and Krishna because i know that once you understand the Role of Ram (intellect of Shiva) and the role of Krishna (mind of Shiva) in the present body of Virendra Dev Dixit, then only ShivBaba will be understood and the riddle of "mind over matter'' will be solved. That is all.

shivsena.

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Re: The use of music during BK meditation

Post by john » 31 Oct 2007

shivsena wrote: true Gyan-marg will begin only when Ram's soul attains the 100% incorporeal stage and starts giving true Gita-Gyan;
So who is going to give true Gita Gyan, Ram, as you say or Shiva?

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Re: The use of music during BK meditation

Post by bkdimok » 31 Oct 2007

shivsena wrote:If you can smell pride, then why ask me for my suggestion in the first place.
I saw your pride after your suggestion. However it is your problem. All I can wish to you is to come back from your virtual reality to this reality. Do you really think that God gave knowledge and it was understood wrong. And only after 70 years it was you who understood it right? However it is your problem.

With best wishes, Shankar

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Bindi Stage & incorporeal stage

Post by new knowledge » 02 Nov 2007

shivsena wrote:So, can we not come to a logical conclusion (as per the study of Murlis) that the study of RajYoga has still not started by ShivBaba and will start only in the near future when Rambap attains 100% incorporeal stage like ShivBap and becomes living Ramshivbaba
Here do you mean that Bindi (i.e, point form) stage of ShivBap leads to 100% incorporeal stage of Rambap? But how ...? - Please explain.

Does Rambap achieves 100% incorporeal stage by remembrance of Bindi ShivBap? But according to you 'to remember Bindi ShivBap through Dada Lekhraj or Baba Virendra Dev Dixit' is a sign of Bhakti marg. So, does Rambap also follow Bhakti marg (by remembrance of Bindi ShivBap) to achieve incorporeal stage??

Again you say in your quotation
'Rambap attains 100% incorporeal stage like ShivBap'. The words '100% incorporeal stage like ShivBap' indicates that ShivBap has 100% incorporeal stage. Then why do you use the term 'Bindi ShivBap' instead of 'incorporeal ShivBap'??

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Post by shivsena » 02 Nov 2007

Dear brother.

In Murlis, it is said that the whole knowledge can be understood in only two words "Alaf and Be" and it is also said in Murlis that if you have not understood ALAF, then you will not understand anything. So i feel that none of the BKs or PBKs or any soul of Vishnu Party has ever defined who ALAF is nor given any thought about who is BE, and therefore it is would better that we first concentrate on who is ALAf, rather than waste time on useless queries.

shivsena.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 02 Nov 2007

And, say, I or others accept your point of view - because it is logical enough - what do we do in the meantime until the perfect avatar is revealed?

Surely that is the main issue? Knowing is one thing, but doing or being makes the future.

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