A positive connection

DEDICATED to BKs.
For those involved with the Brahma Kumaris, to discuss issues about the BKWSU in a free and open manner.
Post Reply
User avatar
in the night
Not sure
Posts: 76
Joined: 20 May 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

A positive connection

Post by in the night » 11 Oct 2007

Hello all you wonderful beings,

I am not a Bk anymore. It is just a matter of personal decisions. Nevertheless, I must admit that sometimes I dislike that this forum creates a negative reaction to the bk lifestyle and deeds. I also understand that most active forum participants have their own valid reasons to act this way.

But not all BK things are negative ... or positive. In any case, we all long for that positive, loveful and creative human society. In our hearts, we are all seekers of a better world.

I would like to start a place in the forum, a space where we go beyond knowledge, badges, denominations ... and just simply realise our common devotional background.

Tell me; do you sometimes allow this horrible world of illusion to creep into your consciousness and forget that we truly wish to just relax and enjoy the creation?, I do.

Tell us, are you just tired of doing this?

In my humble opinion, a true devotee of god is able to see another in the light of respect and enjoyment. :)

User avatar
joel
ex-BK
Posts: 440
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I was an active BK for 12 years. That was long ago. Now I am just a person.

Re: A positive connection

Post by joel » 11 Oct 2007

in the night wrote:do you sometimes allow this horrible world of illussion to creep into your conciousness and forget that we trully wish to just relax and enjoy the creation?, I do. Tell us, are you just tired of doing this?
Are you thinking of particular individuals? I write here for the fun, for the satisfaction and as a medium of relating to others.

Do we "truly wish to relax and enjoy the creation"? I think there may be a variety of wishes among participants here.

User avatar
in the night
Not sure
Posts: 76
Joined: 20 May 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Post by in the night » 11 Oct 2007

Hi Joel, I am expressing myself in general terms; nothing personal. Would you like to share about the different wishes of the participants?

Sometimes, I feel that it is just no fun for me to be going around the wrong doings of others. Does anyone feel the same? :roll: :roll:

maybek
BK
Posts: 22
Joined: 04 May 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: London

Post by maybek » 11 Oct 2007

Yes, agree with relaxed approach.

I prefer to see the positives and work with those ... as far as I am able. whilst understanding we all have stuff to finish ...

I can see the point of people getting negative and hurtful experiences off their chest though, as long as one can then use the experience of being heard / supported to move on ... I get the impression many people do do just that here, from scrolling through conversations in the last month ... perhaps some people have a reason to not want to get relaxed yet ... maybe.

When i feel negative, it always amazes me how much you can see, say and believe badly even if you really want to let go though ... it would be nice is the forum got more positive though!!

User avatar
abrahma kumar
Friends and family of
Posts: 1133
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Contact:

A positive connection to be clarified ...

Post by abrahma kumar » 11 Oct 2007

Hi in the night and welcome. Whilst contemplating the relaxation and enjoyment you hinted at i wondered if you can share a bit more about what you mean when you use terms like, "realise our common devotional background" and "do you sometimes allow this horrible world of illusion to creep into your consciousness and forget that we truly wish to just relax and enjoy the creation". Thank you.

As a sign of comaraderie I will share a little bit about how my mind's energy begins to respond to such statements. I was wondering whether the common devotional background you mentioned related to the fact that as BKs or ex-BKs or PBKs or Vishnu Party Members or whatever we all have had some exposure to what we call Gyan aka Godly Knowlwdge? Or do you mean that as humans we all have a devotional streak and we all want to experience some divine fulfillment of this human characteristic?

And what is it about the world that we might term "horrible and illusory". It all seems quite real to me, warts and all. Just thinking ... and another thing, I wonder what folks mean when they say that they wish the forum got 'more positive'. So i ask:
  • Is it not a positive thing that a BK can come over here and read a Murli online? Is it not a positive thing that we can investigate the real history of the BKWSU?

    Is it not a positive thing that a mother and child can share the challenging expereinces of BK-life over here?

    Is it not a positive thing that you in London can read how Simon B and others are running around the internet disappearing TRUE feedback about the institution to which we have been members?

    Is it not a positive thing that the PBK can be shown to be human like us and not some mysterious bogey-man whispered about or plucked from collective BK folklore whenever the BKs leadership want to blame somebody else?

    Is it not a positive thing that BKs can see, in the example of more senior students, the great the money-making potential that this Godly knowledge has? Don't you want to be able to put more money in Baba's box? And be mentioned glowingly in morning class by the Seniors as very serviceable children?

    Or is the most positive thing we could do is shrug our shoulders and say, "achcha, what to do, drama".

    Or is the most positive thing a BK could do is to sit by while one of your fellow students attempts to silence independent discussion and/or hijack a domain name?

    Maybe one day we will all come to ask ourselves which thoughts are really our own and which ones we have as a result of our brains having been washed very clean indeed?
Sorry but i just can not agree with you, however i respect your right to say whatever you believe.

Thanks and regards

It could be argued that this website is the most positive thing that has happened to the BKs in a long, long time 8) But BKs do not argue do they? Nah that is toooooo negative.

Om Shanti

Abek

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11589
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups.
Location: India

Post by arjun » 11 Oct 2007

maybek wrote:I prefer to see the positives and work with those ... as far as I am able. whilst understanding we all have stuff to finish ...
It is exactly for this reason that many threads on the positive aspects of knowledge & BKWSU were started. But these threads are not so active because of the lesser participation/support from BKs.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

User avatar
alladin
Friends and family of
Posts: 718
Joined: 27 Feb 2007

saving energy and becoming "World Benefactors"

Post by alladin » 11 Oct 2007

Hi, in the night! would you mind explaining which creation do you refer to?
Tell me; do you sometimes allow this horrible world of illusion to creep into your consciousness and forget that we truly wish to just relax and enjoy the creation?, I do.

Thanks for drawing our attention to the risk of concentrating too much on other people's wrong doings. This may indeed deprive us from some of the precious energy we need for our spiritual growth. I think, though, that during an exiting phase it is healthy to TOTALLY FREE from the mental conditioning of not criticizing others which on the negative hand of it, may become a "turn a blind eye, be complicit to wrong doings, and subservient, and ... shut up!".

So, yes, stopping the heart from bleeding from the harm received by other BK angels, stopping the internal chatter about the million bad things we might have witnessed and experienced and heard or read of, can be liberating, but ...

In the Avyakt Murli 12 /8/07 (21/11/92), Baba says that
" even if you have done nothing bad but you saw it happening, if you were associated with it, then it is a sin. According to the philosophy of karma to agree with something also means to share in the sin "

This cosmic law has been copied also by human's legislation. I feel in tune with what Bap-Dada expressed many times, and in the same Murli where he talks a lot about karma, and
"souls who are embodiments of satisfaction will, with the power of silence transform a bad situation or relationship that is not experienced to be so good into something good and imbibe it within themselves. With the elevated thoughts of their good wishes, they will give others the power to change that which is bad into something good and imbibe that.Some children think and say: when something is bad anyway, or when it is a mistake, then a mistake is called a mistake. Or a mistake has to be acknoweledged as a mistake. You only have to acknoweledge it as a mistake. To understand the difference between right and wrong, is a separate thing, but those who are knowledgeable and know this, having understood it, will never imbibe in their intellect that which is bad about any soul as being bad. So, to understand something is a different matter, it is right as far as understanding goes. However, you must not imbibe or accomodate in yourself, in your heart, intellect, attitude or words, that which is bad about others . Therefore there's a difference between understanding it and imbibing it."

Truly, Baba doesn't want us to get contaminated by negativity in any way and, as I said, he wants us to preserve our energy. So, I suppose it is a matter of balance, discrimination power but not getting caught in "side scenes" or other people's scripts. Better to try and play our role well!

Inevitable a truth seeker, or soul who is constantly observing one's self, will have a sharp eye for whatever is going on around and others are doing. But overall, I have the impression that "most active Forum participants" usually admit their appreciation for at least some of the spiritual teachings received through the BKWSO and BK members. They are not denying the benefit from them and are still utilizing them in their lives out of free will; not to please anybody, conquer a gaddhi, out of fear or emulation nor because they have the gun of Shrimat pointed at their heads by Dharamraj. And this free will, I am sure, is appreciated by the Father.

I've a Bk friend that often does not react to bossiness from his center-in-charge & co, saying that being more assertive would not be "royal". When I suggested that maybe he should increase his power to face, rather than hiding himself behind this "royal behaviour" excuse, he did not get offended because he knows I have had similar problems. We all may feel shy and small, helpless or lacking self-esteem and justify our weaknesses saying that we are peace keepers.

Kings have to stand for whatever is fair, not just be meek. And protecting others is, in my opinion, part of the "World Benefactors" role and qualifications.

Good vibes. Om Shanti

User avatar
freedom
ex-BK
Posts: 136
Joined: 02 May 2006

very positive, indeed !!!

Post by freedom » 12 Oct 2007

To me, this forum has always been positive ... as Abek posted all of those questions not answered when we were more connected with the 'BK Organization', now we can express freely and POSITIVE RESULTS WILL COME OUT, BECAUSE WE ARE NOT JUDGING OR PUNISHING OR THREATING anyone here ...

It is a challenge for us to see the shut down of this site but we will survive!!! Something positive will come out of it!!!

I met people here, virtually, but with such a positive connection that made me feel very good, so, IN THE NIGHT, join the positive ride with us !!! 8).

Love ... :wink:

User avatar
in the night
Not sure
Posts: 76
Joined: 20 May 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Re: A positive connection to be clarified ...

Post by in the night » 14 Oct 2007

abrahma Kumar wrote:.. I wondered if you can share a bit more about what you mean when you use terms like, "realise our common devotional background" and "do you sometimes allow this horrible world of illusion to creep into your consciousness and forget that we truly wish to just relax and enjoy the creation". Thank you.
There are concepts that have a sense of reality to them. For me, this is the case when in the "Murlis", it hints that most souls who would take the bk knowledge are "old bhagats", or people who are looking for god. Whether this is true of past lives or not, it doesn't matter. It seems to me that many people who go into bk, ex-BK, pbk share this sense of god-search at one point in this very life.

... creation and enjoying it, it means just that. It may be a serene meditation. A feeling of Yoga or a glass of wine with the right company, :o.

This forum is fun. Well ... I am as disappointed in bk organization, as many of you may feel, but somehow, I just have no regrets about my life as a wacco bk or pbk, or even as an ex-BK.

I like what I experienced during this part of my life. The sincere feelings of peace, purity, love, empowerment ... I do not see so much negativity in the Brahma Kumaris. Well, maybe a bit 8). It is certain individuals behaviour that I do not sympatize with.

And then, there is the bk organisation's incapacity to stick to the simple truths that it claims to know. Yes, hypocrisy is a sin but, mainly, it is a lack of human sense or foolishness if you prefer.
freedom wrote:... now we can express freely and POSITIVE RESULTS WILL COME OUT, BECAUSE WE ARE NOT JUDGING OR PUNISHING OR THREATING anyone here ... It is a challenge for us to see the shut down of this site but we will survive!!!
This type of sites-forums, in which individuals are not connected to each other but in a virtual and incognito way, are a close to perfect way to share an independant discussion. Truth is all about that, a free flow of information. In the old days, people use to say: "whoever knows more; let her/him speak".
so, IN THE NIGHT, join the positive ride with us !!! .
... I am trying :? ... thanx

User avatar
abrahma kumar
Friends and family of
Posts: 1133
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Contact:

Post by abrahma kumar » 14 Oct 2007

Thanks in the night ... and the horrible world of illusion that creeps into our consciousness making us forget that we truly just wish to relax and enjoy the creation; care to share anything more about that?

Thanks.

User avatar
eromain
ex-BK
Posts: 85
Joined: 09 May 2006

Post by eromain » 16 Oct 2007

If the building you are in is on fire, is it negative of someone to point that out to you?
Most of the "negative" stuff on here are warnings.

I would rather provide you with the information in the clearest form possible and then if you decide to ignore it because it is "negative", well, that is your choice. But you could at least acknowledge the "positive" intent behind the "negativity".

There is a massive difference between a "negative" message with a "positive" intent and a "negative" message with a "negative" intent. Indeed, I would rather get a "negative" message with a "positive"intent than a "positive" message with a "negative" intent.

And sorry to be negative but a fair few of the BKs positive messages do have a negative intent.

cheers
eug

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Re: A positive connection

Post by fluffy bunny » 16 Oct 2007

in the night wrote:In my humble opinion, a true devotee of god is able to see another in the light of respect and enjoyment. :)
I was going to avoid posting here because usually I, or my views, am the one that is acccused of being "negative".

Like with most words, the BKWSU culture has its own inhouse definition. Negative, defamation and all those others that they use, to me, translate as "contrary to our current PR stance" and "stuff we do not want non-BKs to know". I find the snobbishness of it all, that they are beyond answering to us, and the constant obfuscation very unhumble. In life, if you get caught out, far better you put your hands up quick than fight on to suppress stuff.

Fact finding and historical accuracy, which I am most interested in, cannot at all be negative. Knowing the facts is a high positive position. Measuring the BKWSU from both a lokik and alokik (as in its relationship the Maryadas) is positive work ... is it my fault if I can see the details?

My biggest problem with your and their use of words is over this "God" word. There is no guarantee to say that the god of the BKs, be it Lekhraj Kirpalani, BapDada or the so-called Shiva is God yet. This is one play the BKs love to make; their god is the God of all. Do we know this yet? I could be the biggest deceit yet. Fine ... let's investigate the facts. What do they have to fear?

Pesonally, I hugely enjoy investigating and documenting what the BKWSU's past but why should anyone "respect" anyone just because they use the g-word? I just wish they would be open with the Knowledge to allow us to study it and provide answers to the questions I have to fill in the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle.

User avatar
alladin
Friends and family of
Posts: 718
Joined: 27 Feb 2007

I fall at your feet, ambassadors of God!!!

Post by alladin » 16 Oct 2007

ex-l wrote: why should anyone "respect" anyone just because they use the g-word?
I think this point is worth investigating. I was discussing today with a Forum member about the possible reasons why we believed in inconsistencies and accepted rules or systems that SS or sisters-in-charge imposed, clearly against or twisting the instructions Baba gives in the Murlis. It was as if a curtain, a veil, clouded our vision. How did that happen? Does that g-word create so much awe and mystery that we drop our defences and discrimination power, if even temporarily, in front of those who use it or appoint themselves as those who have a privileged connection with the Supreme or direct knowledge of him?

Overall, is not our personal experience about the Great Spirit, more important than what any human may say? The second BK Raja Yoga lesson goes on and on about the importance and possibility of establishing a direct connection, through meditation, with the Father. Next thing, the organization itself strips us away from that relationship in many ways, through re-writing and interpreting BapDada's words, labelling any personal opinion as "manmat", etc ... Whilst Bap-Dada says, "don't have blind faith, see for yourself" ... It is almost as if we are taught some really good principles, and whilst looking at them and trying to implement them, we turn away our glance from what is really going on in the institution. :roll:

User avatar
joel
ex-BK
Posts: 440
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I was an active BK for 12 years. That was long ago. Now I am just a person.

Re: I fall at your feet, ambassadors of God!!!

Post by joel » 16 Oct 2007

alladin wrote:The second BK Raja Yoga lesson goes on and on about the importance and possibility of establishing a direct connection, through meditation, with the Father. BapDada says " don't have blind faith,see for yourself" [while paradoxically,] personal opinion [is devalued as being] "manmat":roll:
I would like to emphasize this paradox in BK teachings.
1. Here we learn to be our own masters
2. Only the Seniors are capable of interpreting the "deep and subtle" points of knowledge, answering questions according to God's teachings
Of course, life is full of paradoxes. BKs believe in surrendering themselves in this life in order to be masters for 21 births, and masters of themselves in the present. While it is possible for surrender and self-mastery to go together, understandably few would seek to achieve this by submitting themselves to a shrewish mother-in-law or center-in-charge sister.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests