BK Gazing (drishti) practice in relation to self

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BK Gazing (drishti) practice in relation to self

Post by joel » 30 Jun 2008

Someone mailed me privately asking if drishti is related to hypnotism or indoctrination. I am posting my reply here as well. Perhaps others have something to contribute on this topic.

Choosing when to gaze at a person and when to look away is something central to one's personal choices.

A baby spends a lot of time gazing into its caregivers' eyes. The mutual responses (vocalizations, facial expressions, pupil dilation, touching, etc.) are part of the process for a baby to learn about him or herself, actually integral to brain development.

The custom of lengthy eye-contact among the BKs then relates to our sense of self, our ability to choose what to accept, and what to keep at a distance, what is self, what is other. These are major life issues!

BKs can be very careful about their food. Choosing how close to admit others is in my opinion, just as important, if not more important.

For many BKs, drishti is the closest they get to intimacy. They are taught not to hug or touch too much.

I think there is a kind of mind-twist going on. On one side listen to yourself (look at who you want to, as long as you want to, develop your own judgment) on the other side be someone else (world benefactor) whose eyes are like lighthouses. In my opinion, the BK practices tend to confuse one's self identity because they attempt to replace self-feelings with "pure" and "positive" thoughts that actually belong to someone else's philosophy.

For some, becoming a BK is indistinguishable from becoming themselves. For others, cracks between self and ideal begin appearing after some years. Our inner selves are too powerful to suppress, and generally react against overzealous conditioning, intimacy and sleep denial, etc.

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Re: BK Gazing (drishti) practice in relation to self

Post by mbbhat » 01 Jul 2008

Dear soul/s,

Is there need of drishti while practicing Yoga?

Baba has not said in Murli that giving drushti is compulsory in Yoga. Hence it is not a necessary. Even in BK centres, it is not made compulsory. But it is forced to some extent since Bk sister will inform to give drishti while practicing Yoga if somebody is sitting in Guddhi. This is not incorrect. It is useful if practiced to a limited extent. If one sits for Yoga for half an hour, there will be benefit if drishti Yoga is done for say 5 minutes. This is my experience. But giving drishti for the whole half an hour would be a waste and tiredness.

I did an experiment in Murli class. I was giving drishti to the sister even while Murli class (when the sister was reading Murli). I had done this for nearly 20 mnts. Usually nobody would have done this. Since I had a comfortable soul-conscious stage, I became bold to do this. It was an excellent experience. Even when the sister used to see me while narrating/translating the Murli, I was just giving drishti (like watching a TV). She got little upset initially due to my new behavior (also I was sitting in very front). But I got wonderful experience. I experienced higher soul- conscious state and became happy. It was like adding an extra jewel to my crown.

Dishti is like this: - you see, when we talk something to a child, it answers if it wishes. Otherwise, it keeps quiet. It gazes at us according to its wish, not for the whole duration during which we gaze at it. Not only that, it sometimes gazes at us even if we do not see it. Our aim is also similar and much higher than this. Highest purity means not to get affected by anything we see. [That is why Baba says, “Make your eyes civil”]. For a child or a person who honestly desire to become pure, giving drishti would not be a problem. But still there is lot of waste of time since in many cases, a BK student waits and frequently checks whether the sister’s drishti is at him or not.

Nowadays, the importance to Yoga in many BK centres has become less due to extrovertness. There is need of balance between service and Yoga. Usually what happens is many senior brothers, sisters or anybody while doing meeting, etc will talk with body-consciousness (vyakt bhaav). So, what happens is a body-consciousness sanskar already gets recorded in them due to that meeting. Now, when the same people (be it between two sisters or between two brothers or between a brother and a sister) sit in Yoga and try to become soul-conscious, conflict will start when giving drishti to each other, they cannot do Yoga. [It is like considering a person as your enemy (bodily personality) in the morning and attempting to accept him as friend (soul) in the evening].

Hence one has to take step cautiously. Do not hurry in school service. I remember a person’s saying, “if I work for one hour, I will read for two hours, and I will think for 4 hours”. That is why Baba says, to remember him at least a minute per every hour so that the train (mind) will come back to its track. So what I suggest is, give drushti only for lesser duration. Also you can do one thing, whenever you need, you change your drishti (stop giving drishti). But you should be calm, bold and uninfluenced.

Actually there is some incompleteness in giving drishti. Just see, the teacher (whoever sits on Guddhi) transfers her drishti instantly from one person’s forehead to the other person’s forehead. So it implies that she can definitely see all the parts of body fully. Ultimate aim is not seeing anything even eyes are open (when this stage is attained continuously, the person will forget everything and become karmaateet and shed the body.) But before that there is a stage where we should not get negatively (or limitedly) influenced by the things what we see. I have done the following practice also. Keep pictures of (or visualize) ugly body, beautiful body, a mango, dirt, etc. Feel that all are generated from earth and go into earth. If you think consciously for five minutes, you will feel all are like mud.

The life of a RajaYogi is like this. We are living how to learn dying (forget). We are seeing (giving drushti) not to see (forget). But unless one considers himself separate from the body, any practice is waste. If you know how to use a knife, it is 100 percent useful. If you know what is knife, and ready to learn, it may be useful to some extent. As you practice, its use increases. Otherwise, knife is a waste or danger. Similarly is the drishti (or perhaps knowledge).

[Even in world, we know that the cause for problems is wrong usage of knowlede (science). Today science has increased pollution and created weapons of destruction. When the technology goes into hands of non-character people, there is danger. Similarly, if a Bk does not wish to become pure and stays in Yagya, that too has authority, he is to cause disservice. Baba has said, "those whose mind wanders outside even while sitting here cause a lot of disservice"].

Another thing that I practised was, after the Murli class and even before the Yoga class, I used to get out of the centre so that I can walk alone. Otherwise, usually what happens is that after the Murli class, all the students become extrovertness immediately and start talking about lokik matters. [Speaking Om Shanti has become a fashion. Whenever a Bk tells me Om Shanti, sometimes I respond, "namaskar (salutes) to the soul" and sometimes I say Om Shanti very slowly].

Some of the Murli points regarding drishti are like this;
  • 1) Do not expect any senior Bk to sit in front of you and get help of their drishti in Yoga.
    2) Keep your eyes open while doing Yoga. Otherwise you may get sleep; or you will not now if anybody visits you; or thieves may steal from your shop.
    3) There is no need to sit and do Yoga. You should be able to ‘remember ShivBaba’ (Yoga) while doing action.
    4) You should have such a power that by giving drushti, others should get vision (elevated experience)
    5) Nazar se nihaal karo (this is from Avyakt Murli). “Give realization from drushti”
    6) The language of eyes and mind are one and the same (Amrit Vela)
The first three points are related to practice and the next two points are related to the result(goal).

Why do we take seven days course? To understand Murli.
Why do we need Murli? To create positive thoughts so that negative and waste thoughts can be controlled and Yoga will be easy.
Once Yoga gets easy, need of Murli reduces. Then his words would become powerful.
Then he becomes the real instrument of ShivBaba in service.

Like this life of Raja Yogi should go.

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Re: BK Gazing (drishti) practice in relation to self

Post by yogi108 » 02 Jul 2008

Bhat,

Baba says use YUKTIs to say what you want to say, "KUM BOLO" - Speak less and speak effective ... I do not think the forum members want a class from you which is the BK way to answer simple questions (I mean no offence but then).

Drishti to me is one way of giving good wishes to the other person.

Yogi

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Re: BK Gazing (drishti) practice in relation to self

Post by fluffy bunny » 02 Jul 2008

mbbhat wrote:Just see, the teacher (whoever sits on Guddhi) transfers her drishti instantly from one person’s forehead to the other person’s forehead. So it implies that she can definitely see all the parts of body fully.
My experience of giving drishti from the guddhi is that when you are doing it properly, you are overshadowed by some other spirit/soul and they take control over your faculties guiding you ... your head ... to where they want to go and for how long.

If you do not fight this, or if you ego does not get in the way, the psychic direction is quite clear or distinct. I mention this specifically to the point above. If you are surrendered to those influences, it is not you moving your head, your head is being moved whilst the energy is being channelled through your chakras. I have experienced this as clearly as if someone was holding my head from behind. (Of course, not all are under the influence to this extent all the time but many are. There is more channelling of spirits going on in the BKWSU than the BKs in their desperation to call it Yoga recognise).

Yes, in amongst the class you give mbbhat, there are good points. If you could cut out the fluff and just stick to the essence. It would be good advice. Slipping into stream of consciousness "giving class mode", from any old question, is a bad habit of BKs.

Who are these spirit/souls mentioned above, I do not know. Dead BKs, slightly higher beings, angels ... angels of light? Your guess is as good as mine but it was not God. And it was certainly not the same stuff that innocent, and thoughtless little children do to adults as many BKs relate drishti to. If you are not happy at being used as an 'unconscious medium' as a channel for these spirits, then you should not practice BK meditation nor receive dristhi.

Dr Lawrence Bass wrote "Glancing: Visual Interaction in Hinduism", Journal of Anthropological Research. The context was good but he did not get to the channelling aspect. I would say more about Joel's touch deprivation element leading to a focus of energy transference elsewhere but allow others to comment on this topic first.

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Re: BK Gazing (drishti) practice in relation to self

Post by mbbhat » 05 Jul 2008

Dear ex-l soul,

Thanks. Now I have no aim to give drishti while meditating at all because I try to forget the things that are visible. Sometimes, I give drishti, sometimes I do not. I have no objection, hatredness or interest in it.

But there is some use in drishti. It is also a check to what extent you are immune to the other's personality. Once you are immune, then there is no need of that practice. Until there also use that practice only in a limited manner that too if there is gain to you. There are even some deep points. I cannot frame all the points now. If possible, I will write later. But probability is less.

Thank you once again.

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Re: BK Gazing (drishti) practice in relation to self

Post by john » 05 Jul 2008

I am sure it says in the Murli not to give or take drishti from an impure person. Show me one pure person and that person can give drishti, Therefore drishti should only be from ShivBaba.

I think BKs should be wise and research into what Baba says (via Murli) and not what the Dadis say, to me you are mixing in Dadimat in your account of knowledge without realising.

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Re: BK Gazing (drishti) practice in relation to self

Post by mbbhat » 07 Jul 2008

Dear Souls,

Something more about drushti:

1) If I can give drushti to a person without getting influence, that means I have CLOSEST relationship without any ATTACHMENT. In the Golden Age, there is no attachment but still a husband and wife live together till death (not only, that there is good relation with everybody). There is no divorce, no misunderstandings, etc. Golden Age is called as jeevan-mukti. Jeevan = Life, means always. Mukti = nothing. So jeevan-mukti (liberation in life) means you are there, but not there (like a lotus). So if I can give drishti to a person and do not get any influence, that means I can live with that person without creating any karmic account. That is, I maintain my self respect and give full respect to the other.

2) Capacity to give drishti is a test for purity. So what I think is to become divine, one should definitely be able to give drishti.

3) A fighter does not fight all the time. A soldier does not shoot all the time. But when there is a command or need, they get into action in a second! Similarly, there is no need to give drishti in Yoga always. But one should be able to give drishti at any time.

4) Since Baba is going to create a world where there is both love [CLOSE RELATION] and FULL DETACHMENT, I think drishti Yoga has definitely some significance.

5) Another thing is, those who are practising Raja Yoga aim to become beads of rosary (maalaa ke daane). That is very close relation with independency. Each bead (daanaa = mani = bead) is VERY CLOSE to the other but is UNIQUE. Each is separate and does not mix up with the other.

6) I think if a BK is not capable of giving drishti, he is weak or he has not put honest effort.

7) There is some hatha Yoga in drishti Yoga. So one has to use it sensibly. In a day, one does exercise for half an hour (say). Exercise gives us extra power. It is also a check to what extent I am flexible and healthy. So is the drishti Yoga.

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Re: BK Gazing (drishti) practice in relation to self

Post by mbbhat » 09 Jul 2008

Can we give drushti to an impure person?

It depends where we are and who I am and who is infront of me.

Suppose say- a student chants a poem(of syllabus) in the class when it is permitted, nobody would think bad. There may not be perfection, but still it is not wrong. It is a practice. Result is expected only at the time of examination. THRE IS EFFORT AND WISH TO GET DEVELOPED.

But if the student starts singing in public or other places, somebody may mock at him. Similary, if BKs who wish to become pure, can give drushti in centre class hall who wish to become pure. It is wrong to give drushti in public places.

Check whether the teacher or student in Gaddi is putting honest effort. If so, try to help him/her by giving drushti (for a while), or get help from him/her. Do not feel any inferiority complex that I am not capable. Baba and all of us know that we are really impure souls. So- there is no need to protect our ego. Just be a real student and proceed. You will succeed in few weeks.

In climbing mountain, one can take help from a person climbing(honest BK), or who is on Top(Baba). But it is waste to be in the company of a lazy, ignorance person.

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Re: BK Gazing (drishti) practice in relation to self

Post by mr green » 09 Jul 2008

Dear mbhat

this is the ex-BK forum which means we have all been BKs, we have studied Gyan, we have practised Gyan, we have found flaws in Gyan, we have left Gyan.

Whilst I value your opinion, please try not to go into class mode, I am afraid you know nothing about drishti, same as everyone. Please just try and share your experience not numbered points that are oh so deep and intoxicating ... not!!!!!!!

It smacks of someone who is lazy and ignorant.

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Re: BK Gazing (drishti) practice in relation to self

Post by mbbhat » 12 Jul 2008

Dear MR. Green soul,

Thanks for suggestions.

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Re: BK Gazing (drishti) practice in relation to self

Post by chai bhai » 12 Jul 2008

Greetings everyone.

mmbhat, with respect, I also request that you be a bit more essenceful. Too much green stuff before Gyan (I blame everything on that - it is very handy) means that I need things in bite sized pieces. So I support the request of others ... please do continue to share so we have a variety of voices here, but i personally just find it a bit long and cumbersome.

Actually, I am commenting on what you are writing but actually I am not reading it all because it is too much like a discourse. Most of us have been through at least 10 years of that at school, and probably the same or many more in Gyan ... so we have had our fill! I am far more into having conversations these days. Most of us foreigners (I think I can speak for many if not most) are not so into lectures. so please continue to share but personally I request a bit more essence.

As for the topic it is an interesting one. I have never felt like I am channeling anyone. In that I feel that giving or receiving drishti is a self-directed state, but 'conducting' meditation it is definitely different to sitting in the 'audience'. Then also being in the front you are also received the energy from all the other souls who are endeavouring to - successfully or not - connect their mind with god. It is an interesting thing, drishti and considered the highest exchange of pure love and, as with any exchange of love, through the lower chakras or the higher ones, there can be a variety of experiences.

My greatest experience of love has certainly been through drishti ... and I am quite experienced in other aspects of experiencing 'love'. They went along with the druggy things I did. All part of the one package really :-? :shock: ;) :D :|

I am interested to hear others experiences of drishti.

Respectfully yours, chai

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Re: BK Gazing (drishti) practice in relation to self

Post by mbbhat » 12 Jul 2008

Dear Chai- Bhai,
I think some points have to be explained fully. Otherwise, there is chance of not understanding properly. Anyhow, your suggestions are invited.

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Re: BK Gazing (drishti) practice in relation to self

Post by arjun » 12 Jul 2008

chai Bhai wrote:i am interested to hear others experiences of drishti
The ritual of drishti as practiced by the BKs was one of the reasons for me to become a PBK. PBKs take drishti only from one whereas anyone or everyone can give and take drishti among the BKs.

As a bk, I liked to concentrate on remembering Baba (either as a point of light or through Brahma Baba), but taking drishti from the sister or brother sitting on the sandali (seat) was compulsory. Otherwise there was a danger of displeasing him/her. The teacher may think that I am disrespecting her by not taking drishti from her. And we would have to wait for our turn to get drishti. All this was very distracting/disturbing.

Many a times the teacher would close her eyes and the student has to keep guessing when she would open her eyes and who she would give drishti first. In case she looks at me and finds me gazing somewhere else, God knows what she would think of me.

Sometimes a tired teacher would be made to sit on the sandali and she would doze off while sitting on the sandali giving drishti.

Many teachers try to give an artificial smile during the drishti just to impress the students.

Moreover, with so many people giving drishti to so many people, it is hard to concentrate on the remembrance on one ShivBaba and none else.

Although it helps to some extent in practising looking at each other as souls, but I felt it was an unnecessary ritual. Teachers who help the students in enabling them to remember Baba through their drishti are a rare phenomenon.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: BK Gazing (drishti) practice in relation to self

Post by bansy » 12 Jul 2008

Raja Yoga is open-eyed meditation and concentration on the point in remembrance.

Drishti between souls, other than from the Supreme Soul (BK = BapDada, PBK = ShivBaba via Virendra Dev Dixit), is a waste of energy, especially as no soul is perfect. Forget the rest of the lecture.

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Re: BK Gazing (drishti) practice in relation to self

Post by mbbhat » 13 Jul 2008

Dear bansy Soul,

You are quite correct. In a class, student learns 1) mainly from teacher. 2) He practices deep practice alone. 3) He also communicates, helps and gets help from his class mates.

He gives most importance to 1) and 2).
  • 1) is hearing Murli
    2) is Self study (Ekantavaasi)
    3) is Dadi milan or class, SS class, drushti, bhoga, toli, workshop, etc.
*One more thing:- There is no need of drishti even from ShivBaba. If one can concentrate point form in mind and intellect, any drushti is like water compared to milk. Just see, in the Yagya in the beginning many students have got drushti of ShivBaba. Still 60 survived out of 400. Many have not received sthool drishti of BapDada. Still they have happy Bk life. So internal drishti (power of mind= thought) is needed. I just said that the capacity of internal drushti is visible in external drushti.

The reason for failure of BKs is they get tired in doing 2) and getting influenced by 3). 3) Causes attachment or friction between sanskars if 2) is not powerful.

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