xBKChat.com

for ex-Brahma Kumaris, to discuss matters related to their experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
bruv
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xBKChat.com

Post by bruv » 01 Jun 2008

Easy registration, but having a lot of trouble posting, try one last time.
admin wrote:Firstly, the environment in which this website was started was one in which we had been informed that the previous support site for ex-BKs and friends and family of BKs was closed down due to legal threats with confidentiality agreements made by elements of the BKWSU.
Hi admin, are you referring to the xbkchat archive link? If so, the opening notice seems like a 'good night and good luck' call from the Administrator there. I'll just quote a bit of it for you.
xBKChat wrote:And the Brahma Kumaris? To their credit, it must be said that - to the best of our knowledge - throughout the existence of XBKchat, they never sought to interfere with, impede or dictate our operations. We never received any complaint, critical or reprimanding communications from them. Not once. This may not be unrelated to the fact that we kept the site clean and tried our best to manage it in a mature, fair and responsible manner.
So who to believe? Someone telling porkies!

bruv

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fluffy bunny
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Re: xBKChat.com

Post by fluffy bunny » 02 Jun 2008

Porkies = "pork pies" = lies. London rhyming slang.

I don't know, is that deception on the scale of running a charity for 20 years to "alleviate poverty" that takes in up £2,000,000 (Pounds Sterling) donations a year but does nor redistribute any? Or does the comment accurately reflect the atmosphere and environment at the time xBKChat.com was shut down?

I, personally, do not know either way. I never saw any correspondence. I can though say that the note above accurately reflects what we were told at the time. We were also told that one or more of the administrators went back to the BK fold and there was some appeasement made. But, again, that is just hearsay. They were very secretive and there was no open discussion of the matter. It was impossible to correspond with them.

There was a lot of controversy over xBKChat.com's closure. Personally, I think administrators got a bit of cold feet when ex-BK started to become a little bit more pro-active in their stance. On the other hand, there is absolute evidence which shows the BKWSU involved in removing other exposing media from the internet and so I think the probability of some involvement is high. I wish the matter could be clarified.

There is also the problem that one never knows who one is dealing with when one deals with BKs/BKWSU ... is it an individual ... is it official ... is it some wing or service front ...? Its all very obscure. Again, that the xBKChat.com administrators felt that they had to remain anonymous, that they would not engage in private correspondence and that neither would and do the BKWSU says enough for me.

Everyone was against its closure but if it had not closed, then this site would not have opened up. So, if the Beakies did have a hand in it, they must be cursing which ever BKs that did it, now! Looking back now, I also wonder if all the problems with the PBKs were caused by the BKs and ex-BKWSU Vishnu Party and others attacking them just as we were here. Too weird to mention ...
xBKChat.com wrote:Our disappointment is that the BKs did not choose to actively participate in the discussions ... We wish the BKs well, even as we say this: fear, dread ... cannot be from God.

bruv
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Re: xBKChat.com

Post by bruv » 02 Jun 2008

OK then ex-l, It was difficult, but I think what you are saying in essence, is that you at least, don't know why xbchat closed.

However, as yours is the only reply that I've been offered, I can only conclude that whosoever used the admin account to include what I've quoted above, as part of the justification to one forum member for the banning of another, was not telling the truth.

What else can I think really? It's hardly encouraging is it?

jaycdp
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what happened to x bk chat

Post by jaycdp » 02 Jun 2008

Who was running x bk chat and what happened to those regular clients of xBKChat?

Some of them are missing for example BK Pari and some other names I forgot.

Jayadeepan

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fluffy bunny
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Re: xBKChat.com

Post by fluffy bunny » 03 Jun 2008

Thank you xBKChat, by the way.

Here is a small memorial for those interested in where it all started. 67 registered users and 2048 articles ... my, how we have come a long way.

Image
main.swf
jaycdp wrote:Who was running x BK chat and what happened to those regular clients of xBKChat? Some of them are missing for example BK Pari and some other names I forgot.
You are right, Jay. Gyaniwasi, Hanuman and Atma are three missing notables along with Pari ... there were others too. They ex-ex-ed. I do not know who ran it. The admins always wanted to maintain their anonymity and probably for good reasons. Perhaps they just wanted to be equals and post with all the other members. We are not all global 'name and fame' whores.
bruv wrote:What else can I think really?
Bruv, you can think that it might be possible to come on to the forum and poison the waters a little bit by trolling I suppose ... we have had more than a few BKs do just that. They generally do not last the distance because there is so much valid and accurate stuff that even they have to admit it is true. I am sorry but I am just tired of the petty sniping of BK followers. Welcome to the forum. If you have something to say, please just say it.

What I am saying is that I know more than I can or will publish because I am respecting and protecting my sources. If you take an overview of all this forum has documented, and my own work in particular, you will see that there is a very, very high average of well referenced accuracy. I can also say that there are individuals who know more than me but it is for them to decide if they want to speak or not. Put into the scale of the exposés, such as the cover up, of up to 20 years of Prajapati God Brahma, the multiple failed predictions of Destruction since WWII etc and the legal action against this site etc, readers will have to make their own decision on the basis of "balance of probability" until those individuals themselves feel confident enough to come forward. Or the BKWSU decides to come clean.

According to the whois record, the web design company was called Cassiopeia. You might ask them ... but I hit an unnatural wall of silence when I tried.
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bruv
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Re: xBKChat.com

Post by bruv » 03 Jun 2008

ex-l,

Even in my brief time here, I've become aware of your intoxication with your own past performance, but I am not in a position to take an informed overview of this forum at the moment. I am a fairly slow and meticulous reader, and I am afraid it took the best part of 2 hours to digest no more than 6 or 7 threads at the weekend. Yes, I'll openly admit my dismay reading over the conduct of the BKWSU in mounting their legal proceedings against this forum, so much so, that when admin inferred that similar tactics had been employed against an earlier forum, I mentally prepared myself for the worst.

Immediately however, I come across what is clearly a closing statement from the xbkchat Administrator which quite explicitly denies any such interference. I ask for an explanation, and the most you offer in your slippery response is that there's been some hearsay. 'Hearsay = totally unreliable' as far as I am concerned, and I say as much. At which point the insults begin and I become a drive-by troll.

You're also changing tack and now telling me that it's more than mere hearsay, and that you are protecting respectable sources. OK, fair enough then, but even at that, when I re-read the xbkchat closing notice, there is absolutely no sense of any harassment motivating their decision. If anything, the implication behind their message, is that for them, the catharsis is complete and it's time to move on.

So until your protected sources decide to speak up a little more, it looks quite obviously as though it's the Administrators of this forum, that are actively poisoning the waters surrounding the xbkchat closure.

Thank you ex-l

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fluffy bunny
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Re: xBKChat.com

Post by fluffy bunny » 03 Jun 2008

Its a terrible shame that, for such an "enlightened" organization, the fear of speaking out and control permeates its shadows. Fear which would have appeared well grounded following the Hansa Raval Incident. Sadly, time and time again, I come across folk both in and out of organization that are afraid to speak out, or be seen to take a position, but who feel that something should be said and wish to provide insight and information. I could not do what I do without their assistance and thank them. So do others who are not able to voice their own concerns.

I do not think those individuals would consider it "slippery" to respect others wish for anonymity until they are in a position where they feel comfortable. I think they would call it honorable (as elevated souls here, we prefer to see the goodness in others actions).

There is more than enough solid information and hard baked evidence on this forum for the most 'rose tinted' of BKs to have to take their 'glasses' off for a while and I stand by my batting record. I dare say that you will find the odd 'i' that is not dotted or 't' that is not crossed, we are all unfunded, un-pensioned volunteers here, but you should be able to follow the gist of it.

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arjun
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Re: xBKChat.com

Post by arjun » 03 Jun 2008

bruv wrote:So until your protected sources decide to speak up a little more, it looks quite obviously as though it's the Administrators of this forum, that are actively poisoning the waters surrounding the xbkchat closure.
Dear brother,
Om Shanti. I think after going through the thread on the legal proceedings initiated by BK Hansa Rawal to close down this forum you should have understood the intentions and attitude of the BKWSO towards expression of speech, especially about itself. However, it is good to brush up our memory by revisiting the past.

I am very much thankful to the xbkchat forum for having given a platform to the BKs, ex-BKs and especially the PBKs to express their views. For PBKs that platform was all the more special because they had come there after being banned by the BKs' Aussie forum and other BK forums in existence at that time. Since it was just a beginning of enjoying the freedom of expression, the PBKs took some time to conform to the strict rules that the Administrators of the xbkchat forum had framed. We were not allowed to quote the lifeline of Brahmin life, i.e. the Murlis or Avyakt Vanis.

Even if it was allowed it was just limited to one or two lines/sentences. Slowly the Admin started banning PBKs and stopped registering new PBK members and at the height of the strictness all PBKs including myself was banned. In spite of that I thanked the Admin for whatever support that he provided to the PBKs till their banning. However, I suppose, due to the support of other well wishers, the Admin revoked the ban against me and probably 'Om Shanti'. I returned to the forum, but I think 'Om Shanti' did not. But my second innings on that forum was very short-lived and the forum closed down permanently.

Like ex-l, I don't have any proof for the reasons of closure of that forum, but my experiences with that forum tell me that it was perhaps a pressure from the BK administration or probably the return of that Admin to the BK fold (as guessed by ex-l) was the reason for the closure of the forum. Just as ex-l does not want to reveal more to protect his sources, I suppose the Admin of that forum was under some compulsion or helplessness to reveal the actual reason. However, I respect his decision and thank him once again for providing a platform to all the past and present members of BKWSU to come together and share their thoughts.

I also take this chance to thank the Admin. of this forum once again for his courage in starting this forum and protecting it with the help of incognito supporters in the face of direct and indirect pressure from BKWSU to close this forum. I am confident that his courage would one day inspire the Admin of the xbkchat forum to come out with the real reasons for closure of that forum.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: xBKChat.com

Post by bkti-pit » 04 Jun 2008

ex-l wrote:I do not think those individuals would consider it "slippery" to respect others wish for anonymity until they are in a position where they feel comfortable. I think they would call it honorable.
Yes, it is honorable.
Thank you for your integrity!

bruv
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Re: xBKChat.com

Post by bruv » 04 Jun 2008

Arjun, to my mind, you're just digging for dirt that really ain't there. Idle speculation is an endless energy sapper, wearying even to read.

If you examine the xbkchat administrators closing notice with fair minded intent, then the sentiment comes across as undeniably genuine. With a message which strongly indicates, that xbkchat closure had nothing to do with the BKWSU, and everything to do with a simple desire for conclusion on the part of the administrators and the need to move on.

Can someone with editing facilities please change the instances of 'admin' to 'Admin' on this thread, as the name seems to have changed?

Thanks

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arjun
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Re: xBKChat.com

Post by arjun » 04 Jun 2008

bruv wrote:Arjun, to my mind, you're just digging for dirt that really ain't there.
I respect your view. I can only sincerely hope for the truth to come out one day. I would be happy if our fears are proved wrong.

But what do you say about the BKs banning the PBKs (including me) from their own forums several times?

And if you believe me we were always respectful to them and tried to discuss only the knowledge with them. But that was not acceptable to them. In one case (the forum on http://www.peopleofspirit.com), they even banned the non-members from viewing the forum.

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Re: xBKChat.com

Post by bansy » 04 Jun 2008

I was around when xBKChat closed down but I was on it for about a month before it did close down. I had no idea why it closed. During the time, I did not even find it an "ex-BK" forum because I recall BK Pari was a really avid BK poster giving out many good points (this forum has yet to find such a BK willing to do the same it seems), so at the time I got to learn a lot about BK, ex-BKs and PBKs.

At times the posts were sort of heated, as they are like in this forum, but I was not really up to speed and was enquiring about this and that often poking my nose into something I know nothing about (still do :oops: ). I thought the owners of xBKChat just got fed up doing the adminstrating but I also think they did not have a specific purpose or they did not anticipate there was such a need for open BK-related discussions coming all at once. Whether they were pressured by BKWSU, or felt guilty about stirring up karmic waves, or whether they could not afford to run the website, somehow felt that the XBKChat cut off quite suddenly, just as it was getting hot and heated. It felt like a director fat cat pushing up the company share price and then bolting with those share options! Why did the xBKChat bail out when it was doing great for discussions ?

Well, I continued to do my querying on BK related matters when this forum came out. Again, I do not see this forum really as an ex-BK forum, it is open to all who wish to discuss. I think this forum and xBKchat arose and has stayed on because BKWSU forums were always deleting posts but folks want to simply express deep feelings, sometimes passionate ones. Whilst this forum may help in those hardhit ex-BKs, who would hit back at anything and you knowingly know they will anyway, does not mean this forum is for ex-BKs only. Why should anyone be in fear ?

Even if ex-BKs are extreme in their views, one must wonder why they are in such a situation, and what need is in it for them to twist anything to make their lives better ? Anyone who goes out amongst the 6 billion+ world has the same thing facing them everyday in their lives, unless you live in a cave or stare at a wall all day. So, compared to xBKChat, this forum does have a purpose for those ex-BKs to stress out where they cannot elsewhere, but what is most underlying is the case that it could even serve as a place for existing BKs who may one day find out that BK life is not for them and end up here.

But this forum is not for only ex-BKs. BKs are just as welcome and even if they receive a barrage of posts, it is up to oneself to answer or not. No one makes that decision except oneself. Because simply for the reason that this is just a forum.

If this forum is so unappealing to BKs, can it be said that definitely no BKs peep into this website ? Are all BKs non inquisitive ? Where do BKs who have enquiries go to, could they not equally discuss the matters that happen in this forum also in BKWSU forums, such as the Oz one ? Why do so many BKs request for Murlis on this website. Why don't they request it on the BKWSU website (maybe they are)?

I am not here to say who or what is correct or not. I use this forum because it is here, I make punches and take hits in humility. I accept that not everything always comes my way cause when I look outside the window now, it is just the same. However, when my mind is active but wish to find a range of opinions, I can find them here amongst spritually seeking folks. When I want something totally BK related, I visit my BK friends. When it is a PBK issue, I pop over into the PBK subforum. Or sometimes I just watch a movie, listen to music, do some gardening and swimming (with these monsoons, will do both at the same time !), or go into my own little cave for some peaceful meditation.

I am thankful for the BKWSU and the xBKChat and also to brahmakumaris.info. i have yet to understand God's role in all this but that's part of the deal.

jaycdp
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Re: xBKChat.com

Post by jaycdp » 05 Jun 2008

Hello ex

Bk Pari was introduced to xBKchat by myself. I was introduced to xBKchat by a PBK brother. I am glad that xBKchat is shut down. I have no respect for the action they took during the conflict. There was every one throwing dirt on every one. The administrator was not wise, he kept banning each and every one. He banned anyone who spoke against Western philosophy. He banned PBKs etc.

I am really pleased about this web site. I don't see those kind of unwise people throwing dirt on each and every one. Here I can see constructive criticism and this web site is great. Whoever is running this web site has good people skills and he or she is a good person. And this is a good karma. But remember good karma does not get paid in this birth (just joking).

Om Shanti

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fluffy bunny
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Re: xBKChat.com

Post by fluffy bunny » 06 Jun 2008

bruv wrote:Arjun, to my mind, you're just digging for dirt that really ain't there. Idle speculation is an endless energy sapper, wearying even to read.
Excuse me while I shower off first, I've been deep in it.

The best I can offer you is, "there are individuals that know but they choose not to say" and so, I have to honor that.

Asides from the hard evidence, much of what we are doing here is documenting the socio-psychological "patterning". I, personally think the leadership are quite consciously aware of the need for secrecy and a lack of accountability which is why so much happens verbally, behind closed doors and in another language. And why the PBKs in India are the bane of their BK lives, being beaten up and banished.

No records even to bury, and so no evidence exists. Easy to dismiss any vocal critiques or victims as cranks, embittered, mentally ill etc ... but what the original version of the Knowledge with God Brahma, the other mediums, the Divine Decrees and so on gave us were the keys to the back door of their castle.

So, if we accept that, what can one do?
  • Call on old Miss Marple to pick up the clues ... but start by looking for the body first.
I can hear the noise of shovels as I type.

bruv
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Re: xBKChat.com

Post by bruv » 17 Jun 2008

Arjun,

I've been acquainting myself with the pbk, I see they have their own websites, which my sources believe have been operating free of any BKWSU interference? I've also been made aware that pbk is one of a number of spiritual groups started by former bk members.

So to answer your question, no, I don't think the BKWSU should be under any obligation to give any of these groups a voice in it's own forums. Sorry if that's not so supportive, but surely the most obvious way for a spiritual group to attract interest is simply through creating a good atmosphere in their own places of study?

Bansy,

I agree, it's a fair question why so few BKs seem willing to actively participate on this forum, maybe you shouldn't advertise the Tao of Traveller thread so prominently?

But I am not so sure there are so many ex-BKs here either, or that the ones that are, are representative of the majority. For instance, I've been made aware that on another website, ex-members of this forum have claimed that they had been encouraged by this forum's Administrators to create multiple aliases. If this is true, then it may well be that there are only a very small number of genuine participants here, ex-BK or otherwise.

I've been informed that there are probably thousands of ex-BK in the UK alone. Could it be that for the vast majority, they still value many aspects of their bk experience?

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