Questions

for ex-Brahma Kumaris, to discuss matters related to their experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
jaycdp
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Questions

Post by jaycdp » 22 Apr 2008

Are the Brahma Kumaris harmful to society or yourself? If it is harmful to society or your self explain how?

Do you have a choice to join Brahma Kumari? Do you have choice to leave brahmakumari?

Is the Brahma Kumaris organisation brain washing? If they are brain washing are they brain washing you to say for example the way polygamy cult in Texas?

Is Brahma Kumaris spiritually abusing you? If yes provide examples and proofs (written, photograph, or at least you can explain your personal experience).

Is Brahma Kumaris sarcastic or intimidating?

Is there physical emotional or both kind of abuse going on?

Compare to abuse and non abusive act of Brahma Kumaris what is the most common abuse or non-abusive behaviour?

Did you experience intimidation or threat?

jaycdp
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Re: questions2

Post by jaycdp » 23 Apr 2008

Do the Brahma Kumaris perform forceful conversion?

Do the Brahma Kumaris use females as sex slaves?

Do the Brahma Kumaris accept polygamy within their institution/cult/family?

Do the Brahma Kumaris say children are from god and keep making children?

Do the Brahma Kumaris let the high priest have sex with 13 year old and up girls? If any one experience this please speak up thank you.

Do the Brahma Kumaris men or women trick you to have oral sex? Please speak up if you have had this kind of experience.

Or do you feel that it is from god and i have no right to speak up?

Do you think Brahma Kumaris are forcing their beliefs upon you? And you have no way out?

Do you think you are suffering because of Brahma Kumaris? if yes, then provide clear rationale please.

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jannisder
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Re: questions

Post by jannisder » 23 Apr 2008

Woo, keep it coming!!!

What is your connection or experience with BK? I question!!

If you want to know about cults see http://www.icsahome.com/ want to know about BK explore this website and you'll find the answer.

Welcome by the way.

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fluffy bunny
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Re: Questions

Post by fluffy bunny » 23 Apr 2008

My response is the same as Jans, you call yourself an ex-BK Jay but some of the questions suggest no awareness of life inside the BKs at all. Are you just trying to make a comparison to other religions and to see the good in the path of the Brahma kumaris? Otherwise, the question might be misleading. We have discussed many of these questions elsewhere.

As an aside, I never really saw the problem with polygamy/polygyny and polyandry if all parties were agreed with it. I have no idea why the State feels the need or has the right to limit individual's personal relationships. This question is very 'off topic' for these questions but does relate to the BKWSU as it idealises 'lifetime monogamy' as 'heavenly perfection' whilst in other societies, and times, the concept of polygamy works very well for all parties. My feeling is that, on one hand, this theory is more related to Lekhraj Kirpalani's own psychological experiences; and on the other, a bit weird as his own wife was sidelined as Om Radhe was adopted as his heavenly monogamous partner. I wonder how Mrs Kripalani felt about, and dealt with, being ditched ... for eternity ... by a younger and more attractive woman? Especially after having been, we presume, an honorable wife and dedicated mother to his children ... and giving up on all sorts of pleasures and security as he went off on his mad, 20 year long "Prajapati God Brahma" phase.

In the West, at least, the State's attitudes towards polygyny are based on Roman Law (and therefore a godless pagan law), not the Biblical scriptures and religious traditions of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic lineage which allow for plural marriages. Plural marriages generally within the consciousness of social responsibility rather than pleasure seeking. Its kind of hypocritical when monogamy appears to go hand in hand with the acceptability of extra-marital sexual affairs and divorce especially within the powerful.

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arjun
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Re: Questions

Post by arjun » 23 Apr 2008

ex-l wrote:you call yourself an ex-BK Jay but some of the questions suggest no awareness of life inside the BKs at all.
Dear jaycdp,
Om Shanti. I agree with ex-l.
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: Questions

Post by andrey » 25 Apr 2008

ex-l has always pointed out his prolonged being in the BK, but only so that he can possess the authority of speaking. He may had been or not, but what is visible from some comments is that even basic understanding is not there. I have also not been in the BK in the way he has been. Everyone has his own experience. Why should we tolerate the boasting of ex-l and promoting of his own self. Everyone has the right to express his opinion. And here it is a matter of general issues. From the examples, we extract the general problem.

Do I need to have been there so to understand the problems and think of solutions? We are discussion general things where everyone can participate. For example, football fans may be unable to play football even, but can discuss such politics the coaches are even unaware of. Everyone should have an equal right to express an opinion since he accepts himself as BK, ex-BK. It is only some people like ex-l that put the labels on others only after some criteria he has himself invented is fulfilled, like they do in the BK, they put a badge. So whatever ex-l thinks, of who is ex-BK and who is not, is the same as in the BK. They say who is BK and who is not, based on some made up matters, like teachers training etc. whilst in the real sense it is something different. Are the ex-BKs ex-BKs only in front of the mothers and Father of the ex-BKs ex-l, only after he decides so and gives his blessing?

Whilst the questions are rhetorical, i see the point to which i subscribe, that many of the remarks towards the BK are purely complaints. And how can one complain? BK is whatever it is. Only those complain that go there and instead of following what has to be followed they like to change the BK as per their own wish. Or if they have followed just only what someone says so. This is following without understanding, and as result sooner or later one will be fed up with this and leave. The point is that everyone is responsible for his own doings and result of it and no one is to blame. It is even said in the karma theory.

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fluffy bunny
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Re: Questions

Post by fluffy bunny » 25 Apr 2008

Wind it down Andrey.

Look ... Jay address ex-BKs here and you are not an ex-BK. So, if you don't like it, go back to the PBK forum. I presume he wants us to give of our time and energy and make sensible discussion. How can he do so if he talks about "Brahma Kumaris high priests" or "Brahma Kumaris tricking people to have oral sex with them" and writes things like;
jaycdp wrote:Do the Brahma Kumaris use females as sex slaves?
Do the Brahma Kumaris accept polygamy within their institution/cult/family?
Do the Brahma Kumaris say children are from god and keep making children?
OK. I 'suspect' jaycdp is attempting to make a point about the positive aspects of the Brahma-kumaris in comparison to other notable cultic religions or gurus of our day but it is not clear to me. There is no point in entering into a discussion with someone if they have no knowledge about the subject and asking is the celibate and family-breaking BKWSU "accepts polygamy" is way off the register of "informed discussion".

I am just asking the individual to share with us their experience of the organization. I am also cautious of individuals deliberately attempting to discredit this discussion by making it appear ridiculous.
andrey wrote:Only those complain that go there and instead of following what has to be followed they like to change the BK as per their own wish.
What you exclude from your equation is those of us that wish to extend out sense of responsibility and even compassion towards others (ex-BKs, non-BKs, friends and family of) and hopefully save them from wasting their time or going through the same mill that we and others have.

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Re: Questions

Post by andrey » 25 Apr 2008

What you exclude from your equation is those of us that wish to extend out sense of responsibility and even compassion towards others (ex-BKs, non-BKs, friends and family of) and hopefully save them from wasting their time or going through the same mill that we and others have.
I agree. I assume motives are to bring benefit. But such motives are there in the BKs. Ex-BKs may have left for they cannot fight the whole system, end had escaped to protect some valuable things that has left. However, I disagree if this is called wasting time and mill. It is, as if you say for your own self, you had wasted your time in the past. It is only due to lack of some realization is that this time has been valuable and benefit had been there. And also this helping, protecting nature may also harm.

People rarely follow advice, but like to check. For you, it may have been a waste of time and when you say this is good there and this is bad, you are only giving your own perspective. That's why instead of discussing the pros and cons, the good and bad things there, if we discuss generally what is good and bad, how things should be and agree there, then this practical experience will only help with examples and experience how this can or cannot be implemented in life. Then we can also make it practical. Otherwise it is just sticking to the past. If there are somе new ideas to emerge this will be because of the past experiecnes, so they have not been a waste of time. There is benefit out of them.

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Re: Questions

Post by john morgan » 25 Apr 2008

I guess that the asking of questions to which the answer is "No" could be construed as a device for examining one's own thinking and asking others to examine theirs. If ones answer is "Yes" the asking for proof is an attempt to verify the truth of that answer. Equally, if the answer is "No", there must be reasons why.

If the game is "knock the BK" then times, dates, people involved etc. should be recorded. It is well known that if as few as three people witness an event their descriptions of that event can make it seem that three different events are being talked about. Should the game be "For the BK"; times, places, people involved etc. are worth recording. There must be many whose personal diaries reflect the change from human to divine consciousness whilst studying Gyan.

As far as experiences go, I personally would like to see more people writing about them. Yes, there is the danger of people feeling that they are missing out in some way but on the other hand an understanding of other's benefit, even if at first purely theoretical, can point the way to further effort and further attainment. There is no need to try to copy another's experience, our own is and will be more than good enough for us.

Of course, it is an error in thinking to think that one is missing out as we all have in us the ability to create whatever we choose. Each person's path is their own. To have the faith that for me (and everyone else) all is just as it should be is useful. By sidestepping the thought of missing out more elevated thought can be created. Interaction with the BK can give one a taster of what is to come, if this was their only function their existence would to my understanding be justified.

They say that Baba is incognito, we can also be incognito - to ourselves!

Question ... Why am I incognito to myself?

Or ... Why haven't I claimed my full inheritance yet?

Or ... For how long will my blindness about my true nature continue?

To think about these things is interesting for me. If my own true (original) nature is like Baba's and I am not aware of it there is falsehood in me somewhere. Perhaps Gyan eradicates this. Having said that it is so important to be kind to ourselves and others. The knowledge says that the situation we find ourselves in was bound to happen, there is great kindness in this. Tools of progress can be razor sharp or rusty. There is enormous strength in faith, one cannot have Yoga without it. Looking at others can spoil one's own fortune - unless one has merciful eyes.

Thanks

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jannisder
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Re: Questions

Post by jannisder » 26 Apr 2008

Beautiful words but remember that all BKs are involved with a doomsday cult.

A spiritual path is the path that you have to take on your own without being indoctrinated by any cult or religion. If you still feel you need support from that ... it means you are not a free soul.

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fluffy bunny
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Re: Questions

Post by fluffy bunny » 26 Apr 2008

andrey wrote:I assume motives are to bring benefit. But such motives are there in the BKs. Ex-BKs may have left for they cannot fight the whole system, and had escaped to protect some valuable things that has left ...
For me, it is all about providing information to allow others to make informed decisions about their own lives, and those they are close or responsible for. Provide the complete picture, allow others to decide. No more slow baked, soft sell deceit.

When I was inculted, I was duped. I was tricked. I gave them my trust and they abused it. I opened my self up and had it corrupted. I do not see the benefit in that. Its a bit like say a child abuse was good for the child that has been abused. Of course, we a crude belief in Karma, you might well think that ...

PBKs can say, "OK, the BKWSU is basic knowledge and we are Advanced". Well, "basic knowledge" boils down to "don't be ripped off by fraudsters who cover up facts, re-write channelled messages to suit themselves and fabricate histories". I think it is about time Advance knowledge delivered.

I am sorry, I was already vegetarian, smoke and drink free etc by the time I made met the Brahma-kumaris. I thought I was going to learn Raja-Yoga. I did not. It was another con. Another Hindi term or concept, taken and twisted to market their practise. Its all one big deceit ... and I cannot see how deceit leads to truth.

And how can PBKs unless they add additional steps, e.g. hope ... earnest efforts ... deceit ... disappointment ... rejection ... finding PBK ... becoming enlightened?

john morgan
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Re: Questions

Post by john morgan » 27 Apr 2008

I wonder if jumping to a conclusion can make one miss something deeper. Beings of light think elevated thought. These thoughts can contain blessings. Of course it is all of no use if one does not learn to do this oneself. So my question is "On coming into contact with the BK did I understand about beings of light or did I just look around superficially and decide it was a cult?"

Please understand here that I am not saying the BK are right, each person must become right in their own experience.

Today is No GAWD day. No Guilt, Anxiety, Worry or Doubt day. Who made today that day? Me! Well, I've got to learn to create somehow!

Kindest regards,

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fluffy bunny
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Re: Questions

Post by fluffy bunny » 27 Apr 2008

john morgan wrote:On coming into contact with the BK did I understand about beings of light or did I just look around superficially and decide it was a cult?
Personally, I don't have a problem with folks wanting to be in cults. I think cults are certainly more interesting, even nicer places to be that straight society. They generally have the problems of "intentional communities" (do a Google if you do not know what I mean). Equally they have the same blessings and problems as moving from a big city to a small village. But I would not be prejudiced against a lifestyle ... as long as the individuals promoting it were entirely honest about what was going on.

I, personally, do not criticise the BKWSU for being a cult (although I think from the perspective of straight society it score very highly on that scale) but I am critical of certain cultic practises, e.g. personality cults around the unaccountable leadership, their manipulativeness, the historical revision, the denial of past, some of the monetary stuff encouraged by the leadership etc. I could never blame the followers for those.

I also have no problems with mediumship, although in my and others experience it is almost always faulted and unreliable. I find mediumship for healing the safest, mediumship for guidance is less successful. I was involved with the BKWSU much longer than to knee jerk over it "being a cult". I made a mistake because I thought it was a yogic tradition which I would define as spiritual when in fact it is a mediumship tradition involved at a lower level of psychism (... hence all the anomalies and contradictions). I was fooled because I believed what it said on the box and they hid the truth of their past disallowing me from making a fair judgement of them.

I don't have such a high respect for the leadership as you still do. I don't encourage others to do so either. I encourage others to maintain their own critical faculties. The leadership is earning the First Class or Business Class fruits of their efforts ... but "no cigar" yet.

jaycdp
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Re: Questions

Post by jaycdp » 27 Apr 2008

thank you all

thaks for your honest openion and concrete discussion regarding the questions. i personally have nothing to do with BKs. i have not been to a centre for more than 5 years. i have only visited a bk centre for 20 or 30 times as a visitor in 5 years of my life time (during 1995 to 2000). So i am not even worthy of saying that i am an ex-BK. But due to my interest in reading, i have came across lot of theoretical knowledge about brahmakumaris. i have made casual friendship with Brahmakumaris. When i talked about a website of PBKs then they asked me not to bring discussion about PBKs in their institute but they welcomed me to go to their institute as long as i respect their policy. i went there a couple more times i was not treated bad but the teacher told me, "look, I am a head of this institution and we consider PBKs as rival or a virus". I told or promised him that i will not harm this institution in that way, as i said earlier, i have very little commitment to bk institution any way.

These questions are open to anyone for me to know about you as a bk or pbk or ex bk. Your opinion, your facts, your emotional reaction, your input all are welcome. i thank all of your about constructive and or disctructive discussion regarding these question.

I, personally, dislike abuse or manipulation and i also believe in personal choice, individual right, good environment etc, and i believe in education for abuse prevention rather than abuse cure.

There is room for abuse in all area; abuse inside a person, abuse inside a friendship, abuse in family, abuse in work, abuse in society (discrimination), institutional discrimination or abuse from outside such as noise environment or a drug chemical etc.

Spiritual abuse within oneself or to others, emotional abuse, you name it.

The abuse can lead to self destructive or passing abuse to others or aggressive behavior etc. There is no limit for abuse to infect. The deep understanding of abuse can prevent many problem and construct a healthy life and healthy environment. In chemistry positive and negative attracts. In real world good people and good people attract. i believe it is important to educate every one and all the questions i have asked in here (may be not all) have significance.

Thank you for your response (not cooperation, i do not personally have any agenda to teach any one or correct any ones behavior).

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fluffy bunny
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Re: Questions

Post by fluffy bunny » 28 Apr 2008

Thank you for your very reasonable response Jay. It helps us to understand where you are coming from. I am sure that your questions will be discussed at greater length for some time to come ,and hopefully, members can offer their view from different perspectives.

You are, of course, absolutely correct to state that such matters are of importance to society as a whole and society as whole has an interest and right to know what is going on within as the BKs are effecting it with their vision and have high political ambitions.

For me, as a celibate but persistently evangelistic religion, the BKWSU also acts as a virus, a parasite in fact, upon the rest of society ... and particularly the primary family structure that makes up society. Like a very subtle predator, it literally feeds of individuals and their energy (time, money, labour, emotional/psychic energy), very often weak or imbalanced individuals that it can "pick off" from their original families and induct into the Brahmakumari society at a low or external level. Low level for common people, external level for wealthy individuals or VIPs; it then uses them to fuel its existence.

To what end is this for ... we wont know for some time. But that we are discovering it is based on an increasing fraudulent and malleable basis, one is left to suggest that they, and their guiding spirits, are not entire benign. (This is not to say that there might not be a current of good somewhere within the movement but it is to question the motives and modus operandi of the leadership who by now know that their fraudulent revisions are being discussed in public but continue to sustain the falsehoods to control and induct followers. It is also to note how far dependent minds can be corrupted so as to think such things are not so important - more of which I wish to discuss elsewhere).

Please allow me, and others, some time to come back and answer your questions in more details later.

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