[Policy] Respecting each one's forum

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Post by john » 20 Jun 2007

ex-l wrote:Personally, although I think Veerendra Dev Dixit is sincere in his intent (he really believes what he believes he believes and what he believes is happening to him), it would appear to me that the the following groups are, perhaps, a little less innocent to the "market value" and "business model" that they see Veerendra Dev Dixit is following and seem to be copying it.
I agree. On the point of Virendra Dev Dixit's sincerity, I really feel that is true. He was and is a pioneer.

Yes, indeed, some of the other splinter groups could be completely bogus. Hopefully on this forum, more of this will come to light.

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Post by shivsena » 22 Jun 2007

ex-l wrote:Not true. You can state a fact objectively. You can quote a Murli point or report other publication accurately. It is beyond that which become subjective interpretation.
Anything which is in "...." is objective and anything which is not within inverted commas is subjective.
ex-l wrote:So, to answer Aimée's concern, are you or do you consider yourself a PBK?And how do you see yourself in relationship to the PBK and BKWSU? You too, new_world.
I see myself as a pbk on paper only (not in real life) and i am very proud of it. Also, i think that many PBKs call themselves PBKs but they still do not know the real meaning of the word "pbk".

I am very thankful for BKWSU for guiding me to basic knowledge and the pbk family for guiding me to advance knowledge, and i am what i am today because of the bk and pbk family.


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Post by fluffy bunny » 22 Jun 2007

And, let us be honest, are the PBKs going to publish in a public forum everything that they say about the BK or others?

Are you really not talking about "singing from the same hymn sheet" type PR, like the BKs?

I think that you have raised an important issue and I am glad for the new forum. I think the thing to do now is counter any criticism with positive, informative discussion and create a new balance NOT by moving or supressing topics but adding fruitful discussion and positive examples. PBKs could also add more neutral and supporting information on the Encyclopedia.

Please note that it appears to be that Aimée is one or the only person taking time to add Murlis to the Encyclopedia rather than sit and waffle amongst each other over here.

Although we have discussed publishing the Murlis, and even Virendra Dev Dixit has OKed, who has come forward with a practical plan to do that except for the usual suspects?

I am not hitting hard on anyone over this, it will take time and perhaps other BKs/PBK/Internationalists to come forward to do it, but I think that until we can present and easily check and reference original sources as a whole, it will always be hard to see to what it going on. The BKWSU are playing "Knowlede and Wealth is Power" games like the Christians and Jews are over the Palestinians in Gaza ... and hoping that all the little faction groups will destroy themselves.

"Contentious, moi ... ?".

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Post by aimée » 22 Jun 2007

children have accepted Baba, but Baba has not yet accepted the children. They will be accepted as children only when 108 rudramala will be formed
Dear brother, I cannot believe this. How can God not accept the children? When I signed the letter of faith, I wasn't sure who my mother was but I did accept because I knew that I was in good hands, and all learning was coming in the right time. I consider myself as a PBK because, even if I am not perfect and I still have all the vices in me, I truly believe in the Father, and I know that if I remain constant in my efforts, he will change me into a perfect being. PBK does not mean perfect. It means a child of the Father and the mother, Prajapita Brahma.

When I was a BK, I did consider myself as a BK, and even if I was ill at ease with certain aspects of the institution, I still felt I was the child of Brahma Baba. I received plenty of love from him in meditation and through Dadi Gulzar. I did believe, though, that this was Shiv through Brahma and/or Dadi Gulzar giving me that love. Definitely distinct from any human love.

A Christian would certainly believe himself as a Christian, even if he did not agree with the institution. A Buddhist monk would certainly think that he is a Buddhist. I don't see anything wrong with that.

If you are only a PBK on paper, then what does your heart tell you? When you see Baba, do you believe God is in him (Virendra Dev Dixit) and has love for you as much as he has for Jagadamba or myself? Do you feel that he totally accepts you, that he is beyond our limited intellect? And if he says something that you do not understand, do you think he is wrong or do you humbly admit that he is God after all, he has the big picture, so he probably knows better? I do not say that I accept totally what he tells me, and I sometimes think that he does not understand that the world we live in is so different, but I have total faith in Him. That he is God, and I do call myself a PBK. And I feel so fortunate to have recognized him.

Who is a PBK? For me, a PBK is someone who has recognized ShivBaba, God in the actual Chariot, on mission to put us back on our feet with all our dignity. So either you are one or you are not one, but you cannot be in between. If you are not one, it is fine. But if you say that ShivBaba is wrong and if you challenge the clarifications with your own churnings, then you put a barrier between any spiritual searcher and God, and you direct them to yourself.

Is this what you want?

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Post by arjun » 23 Jun 2007

new_world wrote:Brother John, you are right. All and all Advance Literature & web-sites of the AIVV are 'full of' BK criticism. 24 hours a day, PBKs are engaged in criticising BKs. Is this fair, Sister Aimee ...?
Dear brother,

Om Shanti. I have seen this thread only today.

I think you have not been fair enough in this statement. Although the website www.advance-party.com is not the official website of PBKs/ Advance Party, I don't think it is full of criticism of BKs as you say. Even if there is any subtle criticism, it is based on the Murlis. It would be better if you substantiate your statement by producing proofs of such criticism from that website or even the sticky posts in the PBK section where most of the approved material of AIVV is posted. Besides, if you have time you can go through the sticky topics in the BK section. I think every line of these threads is a criticism of BKs by the PBKs if I am not wrong.

If you say that PBKs are engaged in criticising BKs 24 hours a day, then it means that every post made by the PBKs on this forum is critical of BKs. If you stand by your statement, then let us have a poll on this valued opinion of yours. And I would be happy if any of the BK members of this forum support your statement.
new_world wrote:* PBKs considers themselves as full cast Brahmins/Suryavanshi & BKs as half-cast Brahmins/Shudras/Chandravanshi. IS THIS NOT THE SUBTLE SHOOTING OF CASTISM/RACISM/COMMUNALISM ...? Sister Aimee, is that fair
From the posts that you have made so far on this forum where you have discussed the PBK knowledge very deeply, in all probability you appear to be an ex-PBK, with considerable experience and knowledge of PBKs and their literature. If it is true then the above statement made by you is not at all fair because it is clearly taught during the advanced course that the seeds of all the (10) religions (as depicted in Kalpa tree) are present within the PBKs as well as BKs. I quote from the Advanced Course on Kalpa Tree:

"Here in the tree, the seeds of 10 types, roots of 10 base-like souls and 10 main branches have been shown. The descriptions of the salient features of those 10 religions have to be given here necessarily. So it is also necessary to know which the ten main religions are and what are their specialties and which are the souls who play a special part in those religions, through which easy recognition of the souls of every religion can be made. "

You know very well that the seeds and roots mentioned in the above lines refer to the PBKs and BKs respectively. So, when seeds of all the religions are present within the PBKs, then how can you say that PBKs consider themselves to be only Suryavanshis and the BKs are Shudras. It would be very kind of you if you could quote any PBK literature where it is said that all BKs are Shudras.

I have already requested to you in the past that we all are here on this forum to discuss knowledge respectfully, but it seems as if deep within your heart you do not like the PBKs which prompts you to make such statements.


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Post by aimée » 24 Jun 2007

Thank you for your comments Arjun Bhai. The issues you have raised do show in an obvious way that there are obviously different positions presented. I am still believing that those who so openly criticize the PBK should write in another thread.

I also believe that there are not many BKs in the BK forum because there is so much criticism of the BKs. Of course, there is a lot to say about the behaviour of some in the BK institution, but that could have been posted somewhere else. The BK might find the atmosphere intimidating.

This is just my opinion, and I respect the other points of view. It would be good to have the opinion of the BKs about it ...

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Post by fluffy bunny » 24 Jun 2007

Of course we know that senior BKs and rank and file have looked at, are aware of and read this forum. We are lead to believe it, as with other media on the internet is monitored by BKs and we have evidence of their attempts to suppress and remove it - even in it innocent stage.

Can you imagine how challenging, or even frightening, it must be for them? Not because of any criticisms made, I am sure the majority are well aware of what BK life is like, have their own experiences and know more stories than we do,

but frightening because of the independence from the BK leadership and the mental and moral limitation, that are at the heart of the BK punishment and reward system?

The thought of a "Free State of BK" - in which the principles of "Liberté, égalité, fraternité" (Liberty, Equality, Fraternity) replace loyalty and subservitude to the BK Royal Family within their Empire - would be too much for most BKs, happy to give up their personal rights and responsibilties in exchange for some toli and dhristi from a Dadi.

How would a BK reading and taking up the issue and even philosophical questions raised here be treated by the BKWSU SS? Would they be bannished merely for reading PBK churnings?

Spiritually, I believe that God's unconditonal "umbrella of protection", for any BK acting with pure intention, has be replaced or confused with the iron fist and conditional social or mental control of the current leadership. Sadly, BKs that have arrived here, and take a position in public elsewhere, have made a very poor showing. All the official point of view can see is "defamation".

I know the intent after xBKChat for a BK forum was that it be an open BK forum ... are there any open BKs? If we look at the Australia BK forum, we see the best they can do ... frankly, it is awfully weak.

So where are the great BK thinkers, researchers, historians and policy makers of this day?

To me the organization seems more concerned about propaganda and PR ... for which I sadly state "plain lies and exaggeration" ... and individual BKs more concerned about performance based on conformity.

From 18th Century France, and the revolution that removed the corrupt and exploitative royalty of that nation to help build a merely modern Kali Yugi democracy;
"Equality consists of the law being the same one for all, in its protection or its punishment. Equality omits any distinction of birth or heredity privilges".
As BKs is that too much for us to ask for as well?

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