Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU pl

Post by arjun » 04 Nov 2011

fluffybunny wrote:I would, however, like Karuna Shetty and the BKWSU to be taught a lesson and humbled before a judge, to shut their nastiness up for once and for all. Karuna Shetty is a bit of an idiot and a braggart in my book.
Many would be surprised to know that some of the lokik family members of Karuna Shetty Bhai are PBKs!!!

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU pl

Post by fluffy bunny » 05 Nov 2011

Hooray!

Never was the story of the Bhagavad Gita more true. Families split fighting one another. He cannot pretend he does not know the truth.

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by Narsatya » 04 Dec 2015

fluffy bunny wrote:I look forward reading that the PBKs have cleared their name over this one. I am sure, if it comes out what has gone on, that they can turn it around to their advantage. Like Gandhi said ...

But what of the old Veerendra Dev Dixit sex controversies ... has he stopped doing it. I don't mean the so called rapes, which I don't believe, just the intercourse. And I don't think it is a bad thing even. I just think that until it is openly discussed and answered it will always come back to haunt him in this manner.

Was it all consensus, or did some women feel cheated afterwards and this was where the problems started?
Why are you so interested in ultra-private affairs of individuals? These dark acts are secretly performed, that is why they are called dark. Why are Krishna, Ram, Shivling shown black? What about solar and lunar eclipse? Why is Shivling shown on jaladhari worshiped? Why are nude idol of deities in Ajanta, Elora, Sun temple, Konark worshiped? Rubbish (in your mind)should be burnt or buried instead of spreading.

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP ‘spiritual school’

Post by mbbhat » 04 Dec 2015

Unfortunately, the media the world over is the same. For the most part it respects no one and is in such a rush to sell newspapers it cares little about the truth.
True in many cases and is part of drama. When everything is to be degraded by the end, even media also would be. There is no surprise in this.

Baba has also said- "the media has defamed you. In the end, it will praise you. News papers will do lots of service in the end".Those who criticize/defame you will praise you in the end. News papers will do lots of service in the end.

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by fluffy bunny » 04 Dec 2015

Narsatya wrote:Why are you so interested in ultra-private affairs of individuals?
Because they are not private, they are public figures ... allegedly the representation of God on Earth ... and performed on the world stage in front of everyone.

It's a matter of principle and it's a matter of understanding, not just understanding "the Knowledge" but also understanding the conflict between the BKWSU and the AIVV.

I think it also helps us understand the early Om Mandli days as I think these events were a copy or reflections of what went on during Lekhraj Kirpalani's time with his gopis, that the BKs have represented dishonestly for the sake of their, and his, public image.

I do not consider manipulating a fake public image to be spiritual or divine. The truth is the truth, plain and simple.

No falsehood, no cover ups, no corruption.

Whitewashing, manipulation of followers and coverups are a *lot* more impure than honest, satisfying sex.

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by Narsatya » 20 Dec 2015

fluffy bunny wrote:Because they are not private, they are public figures ... allegedly the representation of God on Earth ... and performed on the world stage in front of everyone.
God comes in an ordinary man, so he would perform acts like any other ordinary man. But results are what is extraordinary.
fluffy bunny wrote:It's a matter of principle and it's a matter of understanding, not just understanding "The Knowledge" but also understanding the conflict between the BKWSU and the AIVV.
There is a definite concept behind all these, and the elaborate knowledge involved in same, which is bit extra according to AIVV school as compared to BKWSU. HENCE there is a DIFFERENCE.
fluffy bunny wrote:I think it also helps us understand the early Om Mandli days as I think these events were a copy or reflections of what went on during Lekhraj Kirpalani's time with his gopis, that the BKs have represented dishonestly for the sake of their, and his, public image.
I don't think DLR was solely responsible by himself alone for his enactments of these dramas of alluring gopis, etc. These intimate acts had been going on ever since the beginning of Yagya.
fluffy bunny wrote:I do not consider manipulating a fake public image to be spiritual or divine. The truth is the truth, plain and simple.
Divine act is an act that does not cause sorrow. Act, by itself, is not more important than the intent and the result of it. The real intent is winning over vice of lust, while living as a householder.
fluffy bunny wrote:No falsehood, no cover ups, no corruption. Whitewashing, manipulation of followers and cover ups are a *lot* more impure than honest, satisfying sex.
If the motive were to have only satisfying sex, then very object won't be fulfilled. In satisfying sex, one would have an orgasm, ejaculation and the organ would lose vigor and lose erection also.

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by fluffy bunny » 20 Dec 2015

Narsatya wrote:In satisfying sex, one would have an orgasm, ejaculation and the organ would lose vigor and lose erection also.
Not so, if you accept what the Taoist/Tantric masters teach, which is sex without orgasm/ejaculation, as it is a loss of energy.

That could work on two levels,
  • a) not having an orgasm, but giving the other person one, and absorbing their chi/sexual energy.
    b) having an orgasm and absorbing their chi/sexual energy, but not ejaculating.
Either way it sounds like sex magic, and is no proof he is god, nor the medium of god.

Many men can do the first one, it's just a case of being a good lover and having self-control. Less men can do the second, but it's not impossible. It's just a question of education and practice.

Alternatively,
  • a) he could just be impotent, and
    b) they could have just practised it according to the rhythm method at the right time of the women's biological cycles.
The Knowledge says, Lekhraj Kirpalani is responsible for starting ... everything.

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by Narsatya » 23 Dec 2015

fluffy bunny wrote:Not so, if you accept what the Taoist/Tantric masters teach, which is sex without orgasm/ejaculation, as it is a loss of energy.

Either way it sounds like sex magic, and is no proof he is god, nor the medium of god.
Taoists and tantrics are eye-washers. Ask them if they could control if they are in intercourse 24/7?
This is the only proof of "ever pure" part, otherwise what can be said of point being ever pure and ever impure. Ling in contact with jaladhari 24/7, still no discharge!
If Lekhraj Kirpalani allured gopis, then why was there strife in the Yagya?
Whom did Lekhraj Kirpalani oppose, when he spoke in Murlis - " I advised those children so much not to indulge in vices, they paid no heed, and failed. "
So, there must be someone else playing this part.

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by fluffy bunny » 24 Dec 2015

I can only speak from my own personal experience, and friends who I know well. It's no big deal to make love for, say, 6 or 8 hours without stopping or to give a woman numerous orgasms without having one yourself. I have no idea what the "24/7" reference refers to, but it's no big deal for a woman to have numerous orgasms one after another (until she passes out). It's also not such a big deal to have unprotected sex for years and not get someone pregnant, it's called the "rhythm method", and scientifically speaking, it's almost as preventative as using condoms.

It's no proof of divinity, as some PBKs claim of Virendra Dev Dixit.

If so, I must be a god too.

I don't even claim to be a Tantric or Taoist. I just put some effort into being "good in bed", as they say, where I come from. It's called being a good lover.

I don't know who or, more to the point, when Lekhraj Kirpalani opposed "those children [who] indulged in vices". You'd have to say, and give specific references. Lekhraj Kirpalani changed his opinion and conduct over the years.

Remember there was no God Shiva speaking to him until after 1955 and we have been refused to know what the earlier teachings really were by the orthodox BK elite.

The "playing of parts" idea is a PBKism, not a BKism, which I agree with to some extent. I do agree that Lekhraj Kirpalani, or the god spirits of the BKs, did make obtuse references to other individuals and events which the BKs have since removed from their whitewashed, re-written history, and that they have stripped such references out of more recent Murli translations making them incomplete and confused.

I agree that most BKs are brainwashed and unaware of such individuals, and are in 'psychological denial' about their cult's real history. That's why they react so strongly against the PBKs and cannot believe or accept what they are suggesting. Or that the BK leaders have lied to and deceived them for decades. They have.

But, at the same time, I can tell you 100% that Virendra Dev Dixit also does not know the whole truth, nor does he teach an accurate version of the history yet, and also acts in denial of what he does not know. I admire him for sensing that something was incomplete and not quite right about the BKs versions, and for questioning and challenging the BKs' limited intellect and repressive elite, but I have to question and criticise his and the orthodox PBKs' limitations too.

From the historical documents that we have discovered, Lekhraj Kirpalani certainly indulged in such intimacies with the girls that would not be acceptable even today in India.

You ask, "If Lekhraj Kirpalani allured gopis, then why was there strife in the Yagya?". Probably the answer is, because he changed his mind and conduct at a later date, at least partly due to external pressure from non-BK society around him.

In the early days, "purity" had an entirely different meaning with the Om Mandli and it's latter form came from outside influences. Lekhraj Kirpalani was initially sensually indulgent which led to him being criticised by non-BKs. Perhaps there were more chaste influences from within the Om Mandli - that's "the old partner who left" in PBK terms. I think that's likely.

Now you are suggesting that there were others who were more indulgent. That also seems likely from the oldest documents, the concerns of the Bhaibund Committee were about other males in the Om Mandli having access to the girls and women, e.g. they specifically mention one young Muslim male. The Murlis even used to mention sisters who had attachment or touched other sisters (but I suspect that has been removed now).

Unfortunately, it's a waste of time to try and discuss such realities with the BKs ... they are, as Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs say, like the Wahhabis (member of a strictly orthodox Sunni Muslim sect) of the BK world.

Mbbhat, here, is a typical example of such BKs, but I doubt he can even see it. Like the Wahhabis in Islam, likely he just believes he and his orthodox BK leaders are the "true" BKism. Even though their "true" BKism is obviously made up, re-written and falsified from a factual point of view.

Who do you think is "playing that part"?

Has Virendra Dev Dixit stopped having sex with sisters?

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by Narsatya » 24 Dec 2015

When fornication is not considered as a big offence in your European country, then what is the problem here? Your world is no better than Pbk world.

So god cannot play such a part, is that what you are implying?

This is entirely his business, which he cannot stop, and neither can you make him stop.
So take a holiday, will you?

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by sita » 25 Dec 2015

Can God be a good lover, if, and as described in the Murlis - completely detached, no thoughts, no attraction to the body, no sensual pleasures?

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by fluffy bunny » 25 Dec 2015

Narsatya wrote:When fornication is not considered as a big offence in your European country, then what is the problem here?
I'd rather call it "love making". And given India's population has risen from 300 million in 1936 to 1,200 million today, the evidence suggests it's rather prevalent there too.

"Implying" ... I've tried on many occasions to openly discuss sexual activity within PBKism, as I suspect it is one of the key elements of the BKWSU leadership's criticisms or antipathy towards Virendra Dev Dixit and PBKism.

It's unfortunate, that BKism is such that they cannot discuss Lekhraj Kirpalani's early activity and sexual matters, on the whole, in a mature fashion, either.

Presumably, it's something most or at least some PBKs sort of know about, but I wonder how much they know and how they accept it? I am not sure that all BKs know about why their leaders are so anti -Virendra Dev Dixit and go to the length they do to try and destroy and discredit him.

Poor you, Sita, if you think that's the best definition of a good lover, but what does that mean in practical terms? That he or we can "do the business" but only if he or we do not feel any stimulation or attraction?

What was the meaning and significance of the experience/activities ... how did the sisters feel about it, etc? Has it stopped, or do all PBK surrendered sisters have to compulsorily go through it as a regimen?

Are PBKs told not to discuss it, or do they feel ashamed or apprehensive to do so?

I've been asking for a serious discussion about it for years and no one can or will have one.

(One of my points is, that BKs really can "throw stones" in this area, because Lekhraj Kirpalani wasn't exactly the "detached" saintly figure that he is portrayed today as).

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by sita » 25 Dec 2015

I know in the anti om mandli matter there was a case where a girl admitted she was forced to give false statements. This is the claim BKs make against the depictions of the practices by the anti om mandli - that they are false.

In the PBK it is even stricter, and purity is to be maintained to the level of the vibrations. I don't know of any PBK to practice indulging in sex.

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by fluffy bunny » 25 Dec 2015

What about Virendra Dev Dixit at the beginning - the root cause of the BKs "rape" accusations? (I don't think it was "rape" but other PBKs have confirmed there was sex).

And, on the other hand, we have Om Radhe's interview where she defends the physical intimacies by saying "whatever they did was pure" because Lekhraj Kirpalani was their spiritual Father. She does not deny them, although she conveniently or tactfully avoids going into detail about them.

The bottomline with the BKs is, the elders were deeply dishonest about all that happened (most are dead now, so we cannot ask them); and the followers are so brainwashed into a false story of events, that it's impossible for them to look at the facts logically and rationally, or have the courage to question sensibly.

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by sita » 26 Dec 2015

Mama has admitted only about kissing, and indeed kissing like a Father kisses his children is not immoral, but purely filial.

I don't have information about the "rape" case.

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