Research into BKWSU.

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john
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Research into BKWSU.

Post by john » 26 Mar 2009

I think there should be more research done on this forum into the facts of the BKWSU and it's history.

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Re: Research into BKSWU.

Post by john morgan » 03 Apr 2009

I think that the emphasis should be on how the knowledge can be used to best effect.

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Re: Research into BKSWU.

Post by shivshankar » 03 Apr 2009

john morgan wrote:I think that the emphasis should be on how The Knowledge can be used to best effect.
+1
I see desire of some souls to find out objective picture, but from my point of view it is better to inculcate something useful for ourselves. Or at least something common, undoubtful and useful.

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Re: Research into BKSWU.

Post by shivsena » 13 Apr 2009

john wrote:I think there should be more research done on this forum into the facts of the BKSWU and it's history.
Dear john Bhai.

I think that enough research of BKWSU history has been done on the forum by many brothers (especially ex-l) which proves that history of BKWSU as projected by BKs is on very shaky foundation. I think that the need of the hour is to study the Murlis and Vanis and try to understand the hidden secrets in the gems of knowledge spoken by Shiva.

shivsena.

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Re: Research into BKSWU.

Post by bansy » 13 Apr 2009

I think that enough research of BKWSU history has been done on the forum by many Brothers (especially ex-l) which proves that history of BKWSU as projected by BKs is on very shaky foundation. I think that the need of the hour is to study the Murlis and Vanis and try to understand the hidden secrets in the gems of knowledge spoken by Shiva.
In some ways I agree.

It was inevitable that the old blue forum would be at a deadend because history shows that there is never enough history to be found, and it will always be endless because it is looking back in time. So who knows when time began :laugh: or when it ends :shock: At the same time (no pun intended), it also has given many insights to the way the Yagya has grown,and it is up to each of us to decide for themselves the validity of the Yagya as to if you were or not there in the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, etc or in 2009.

But life exists as of today. What you felt even yesterday is not the same as what you are now. I do not know if the BK I met this morning is a BK this afternoon. I do not know if the BK I met 10 years ago is a BK this afternoon.

We can only base what we feel on what we have with us now. My brand new watch yesterday is not new today. Murlis and Vanis are what we can base our learning from on the BK path. But we have to look at it from today's position.

This post is obvious to the more experienced members in this forum, but applies equally to the newer members of alll forums.

Wishing you all lovely spiritual journeys .

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Re: Research into BKSWU.

Post by john » 13 Apr 2009

shivsena wrote: I think that enough research of BKWSU history has been done on the forum by many Brothers (especially ex-l) which proves that history of BKWSU as projected by BKs is on very shaky foundation. I think that the need of the hour is to study the Murlis and Vanis and try to understand the hidden secrets in the gems of knowledge spoken by Shiva.

shivsena.[/color]
I believe Murlis can only be understood properly by understanding the history of the BKSWU. I do not think the two things are independent. I think it is part of the drama plan for BKSWU to deceive and within that are the clues to the reality of the Yagya.
I think the research done on BK.info is only a start.

Also I think it makes some of the things said by PBKs to be on shaky ground.
Virendra Dev Dixit was sent copies of the documents and literature from the 1940's BKSWU and he has made no comment. To me it also reveals that he doesn't know the exact history. How can ShivBaba not know the accurate history of the Yagya?

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Re: Research into BKSWU.

Post by bansy » 13 Apr 2009

Ah, I see what you mean john.

I suppose it is going to be hard to uncover the history because one really needs to do the research in India. The bkinfo is primarily from a western point of view and so had come to a standstill in this front. The PBKs have been at it for much longer, and they are also using the knowledge as a way of "disproving" the BKs. Disproving BK Gyan will mean that there were lies. The history of the Yagya are all made up of human endevours, so there will always be errors and any mistakes will simply be put down to human intervention.

Since the start of the forums, I've always simply asked for the original Murlis to be made available for all, and to simply love whoever comes in front of you and to put the past behind you. Not everyone may agree with this simple agenda and some even criticise this for bringing discredit to forums themselves. I am not here to disprove BKs, PBKs, ex-BKs, (to remove all labels), I am here simply to understand the validity of the spiritual knowledge, all the other incidents with this soul this Dadi this senior, this centre, are of little significance and just minor distractions.

I suppose the research is to why so many BKs are still as such even given the situation they are in, some of them highlighted in Bkinfo, and I am sure others have told them it about the "cult" issues but yet even knowing about all this, it goes beyond all of this.

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Re: Research into BKSWU.

Post by john » 14 Apr 2009

Bansy

Yes, there are different motives for looking into the history of BKSWU.
Myself I think if BKs really believe in the lesson of 'Drama', they will not be afraid, the truth is for the best and best for all concerned.
I do not see it as a way of disproving BKSWU, but proving what it really is and then true benefit will arise for everyone.

I myself do not believe if the truth is revealed it should be used as a weapon to beat on BKs. Yes it could be used to stop them lying and temper down their egos.
There is the biography of Brahma, of Mama of Didi Dadi etc etc. Where is the true biography of ShivBaba? in the Murli it speaks of the 'Biography of Shiva'.

Let the truth be free, that is the only unshakable ground we can base our life's on.

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Re: Research into BKSWU.

Post by arjun » 14 Apr 2009

Om Shanti. I agree with john that there should be a research on the history of BKWSU. It could extend to a research on AIVV as well. I also agree with sister bansy that all the original Murlis (spoken by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba) should be made available to all those who wish to read them.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: Research into BKSWU.

Post by john morgan » 15 Apr 2009

It is many years since I attended a morning class, I therefore trust that those reading these words will treat them with due caution. For me the history of the Yagya is less important than the effect of knowledge in ones own life. Those who could not catch an inspiration if it knocked them on the head would of course disagree. That some find the Murli enchanting whilst others on hearing it wonder what the fuss is about seems as true to me today as it has always been. When I first heard the Murli it tugged me this way and that, I had no idea what was going on - why were these BK's reading it to me and what on earth did it have to do with the difficulties I was trying to deal with were vague questions I asked myself.

I listened more, sometimes I loved the song and sometimes it did nothing for me at all. The instructions given were to see only Brahma Baba's forehead and to think about the knowledge. It worked then it did not each time I went deeper into me. Brahmin thought is of a higher order than worldly thought, if one wished to learn the whole history of something, not the official story but what really happened, it would take many lifetimes as every person involved has their tale, the whole truth is the sum of everyone's tale. Obviously this is impossible. History is written by the victor and people choose to take it on trust. We won, we were the good guys, of course they were the bad ones, they had the devil on their side so they lost. That many in the opposing army could have been more devout than those in the victor's army is merely glossed over.

It is no small thing to raise one's consciousness. As this happens the identity of the individual and their reasons for creating thought change. Thought can be a blessing or a curse, we each create our thoughts and experience the effect of our actions be they good or bad, appropriate or time wasting, elevated or something else. If one aspires to Brahmin thought I think it wise to follow the advice of those further along the path. The Murli inspires one to unearth the truth. Not the truth of what happened between this person and those people many years ago but the truth of who and what each of us is in this moment. If juicy gossip attracts you more than spiritual endeavour it is your karma. If you are distracted from the path of good effort by history that isyour karma too. Sooner or later we will return to our eternal home. Whilst angels are here the opportunity of clearing ones karma exists. Better to do that now than investigate the world out there and clear little or no karma. Historian or yogi? Which do you wish to be? The chance of knowing what is in God's intellect comes just once a Kalpa. It is not facts themselves which are important, it is their significance. Those who cannot see the path think it does not exist. If you are about to take your first step on a path but are influenced by those who are blind will your foot land in the right place? To improve and master yourself is the reason you are here, if anyone makes you forget this they are a bad influence. If your friends are blind fools what is the loss if you lose them as friends?

The control and culture of thought is taught by the Murli and attained by those who make effort. if you cannot see this enter good company, study their knowledge and make effort. Later you will see. Better a life of good fortune brimming with joy than dry history and wasted opportunity. Tales of the past often contain inspiration or guidance. If you are able to catch the benefit in a tale and see its significance in your life your study is spiritual. If whilst listening to the tale your attention is on whether it is true or not the benefit can be missed. I am not saying listen to any fairy story and believe it. What I am saying is that discrimination has to be tried tested honed and used in the field of experience. In the words of Bob Dylan "He who is not busy being born is busy dying."

I warned you at the start and I warn you now. Believe not a jot of this post. Tear it to shreds, examine it from all angles, I don't care what you do with it. I'd like you to think about the content but perhaps you haven't learned to think yet. Maybe all that happened as you read it was that you formulated many reasons why you know better. I never said I was right, I warned you, twice. Good Luck.

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Re: Research into BKSWU.

Post by john » 15 Apr 2009

John M

You speak of Murli.
Which Murli?
Is it Sakar Murli?
Is it Piu Vani?
Is it Avyakt Vani?
Which Murli have you read prior to 1965?
BKSWU say ShivBaba entered in 1936.
That makes 33 years of Sakar Murli of which 5 years are only available.
Tell me John M, where are the 28 missing years?

My friend I think you have much to learn, but you can bury your head in the sand if it makes life easier.

Is this knowledge to bring a bit of peace, a bit of happiness a bit of this a bit of that?
No, it is to bring total salvation and enlightenment.

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Re: Research into BKSWU.

Post by john » 15 Apr 2009

john morgan wrote:I think that the emphasis should be on how The Knowledge can be used to best effect.
The best effect of Knowledge is to have accurate remembrance.

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Re: Research into BKSWU.

Post by shivsena » 15 Apr 2009

john wrote:
Also I think it makes some of the things said by PBKs to be on shaky ground.
Veerendra Dev Dixit was sent copies of the documents and literature from the 1940's BKSWU and he has made no comment. To me it also reveals that he doesn't know the exact history. How can ShivBaba not know the accurate history of the Yagya?
Dear john Bhai.

The Yagya history as narrated by Baba Dixit to PBKs is totally false and is not supported by any proof from Murlis and the theory that Shiva entered in sevakram to give clarifications of visions to Dada Lekhraj is a clever attempt to misguide the PBKs into believing that sevakram is Ram's soul.
The Yagya history as narrated by both BKs and PBKs has so many loose ends, that it is surprising how logical minded BKs and PBKs accept it as truth.

shivsena.

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Re: Research into BKSWU.

Post by john morgan » 15 Apr 2009

Hi John,

I studied Sakar and Avyakt Murlis with the BK. My experiences both with the BK and since the BK seem to me to be far from that which you suggest.

Curious is the notion that live blessings and insights are ostrich like.

That you consider that your own particular brand of argument is excellent is, from the little you have said, very clear. Thanks for letting me know.

Kindest wishes,

John Morgan

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Re: Research into BKSWU.

Post by shivshankar » 15 Apr 2009

john morgan wrote: I warned you, twice. Good Luck.
O man, if you will put some humility and love into your words they will have much more power than now. But you have to develop these qualities first.
john wrote:The best effect of Knowledge is to have accurate remembrance.
Dear brother, what is accurate remembrance for you?

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