Everything you need to know is in the Sakar Murlis. Or is it

Mainly DEDICATED to Ex-BKs.
A neutral forum for congenial discussions and reservations related to the Godly Knowledge between ALL parties.
Post Reply
User avatar
bansy
Posts: 1643
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Everything you need to know is in the Sakar Murlis. Or is it

Post by bansy » 24 Jan 2009

Is this correct ?

Time and time again, BKs are told to "Follow The Father". In BK terms, this is following in the footsteps of Brahma Baba (Lekhraj Kirpalani).

Now if Brahma Baba (Lekhraj Kirpalani) became perfect in avaykt angelic state from Murlis, then what other material is needed for study other than the Sakar Murlis ?

Is everything contained in the Sakar Murlis, or is something missing in them ? Aren't these Sakar Murlis enough to make other souls angelic ? Is anything produced after 1969 simply a duplication, triplicate, quadriplicate, etc and hence a "waste of time" because if the Murlis had been (or still could be) made available, then that's all there is to know and need ?

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11625
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups.
Location: India

Re: Everything you need to know is in the Sakar Murlis. Or is it

Post by arjun » 24 Jan 2009

Om Shanti. I think that though Sakar Murlis contained enough Godly knowledge but it was not complete. There were many versions which were not understood properly even by Brahma Baba at that time. ShivBaba Himself said that the knowledge would be narrated till the end. So, ShivBaba should be present in this world even after 1969 to give further knowledge.

As regards the Avyakt Vanis being narrated through Gulzar Dadi since 1969, they are just versions related to dhaarnaa (inculcation of virtues/knowledge) without much mention about the Cycle, Ladder, Tree, etc. The unexplained/un-understood portions of Sakar Murlis are never clarified through the Avyakt Vanis. So, according to PBKs, that does not constitute ShivBaba's versions. They are the versions of a deity soul of Brahma (Dada Lekhraj).

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

User avatar
shivshankar
working towards unification
Posts: 246
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: reforming BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: dharna
Contact:

Re: Everything you need to know is in the Sakar Murlis. Or is it

Post by shivshankar » 25 Jan 2009

arjun wrote: ShivBaba Himself said that The Knowledge would be narrated till the end. So, ShivBaba should be present in this world even after 1969 to give further knowledge.
Indeed there is no new knowledge from God at the moment. Neither through Dadi Gulzars body nor through Virendra Dev Dixit body. Clarifications (in my opinion of an ordinary man) are not new knowledge. Full knowledge is discription of this world and history in simple logical manner, without any relation to Bhaktimarg as it is now in BK and PBK worlds.
God hadn't finished His task yet. Even in narrating knowledge.

User avatar
shivsena
ex-PBK
Posts: 4339
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To find out the absolute Truth.
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: Everything you need to know is in the Sakar Murlis. Or is it

Post by shivsena » 26 Jan 2009

shivshankar wrote: Indeed there is no new knowledge from God at the moment. Neither through Dadi Gulzars body nor through Veerendra Dev Dixit body. Clarifications (in my opinion of an ordinary man) are not new knowledge. Full knowledge is discription of this world and history in simple logical manner, without any relation to Bhaktimarg as it is now in BK and PBK worlds.
God hadn't finished His task yet. Even in narrating knowledge.
Dear shivshankar Bhai.

I fully agree with you that the real knowledge from personified God ShivBaba has still not been narrated and will come sometime in future; the neo-knowledge which arjun Bhai claims to be from ShivBaba is also not the true Godly knowledge, for the simple fact that no one has been liberated from vices by hearing it for last 20 years. As you rightly said, full knowledge will be in simple logical manner (without any controversies), and the present bk and pbk knowledge is just plain and simple Bhakti(acceptance without understanding and without transformation).

shivsena.

User avatar
shivshankar
working towards unification
Posts: 246
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: reforming BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: dharna
Contact:

Re: Everything you need to know is in the Sakar Murlis. Or is it

Post by shivshankar » 26 Jan 2009

shivsena wrote: I fully agree with you that the real knowledge from personified God ShivBaba has still not been narrated and will come sometime in future; the neo-knowledge which arjun Bhai claims to be from ShivBaba is also not the true Godly knowledge, for the simple fact that no one has been liberated from vices by hearing it for last 20 years. As you rightly said, full knowledge will be in simple logical manner (without any controversies), and the present BK and PBK knowledge is just plain and simple Bhakti(acceptance without understanding and without transformation).
Dear soul. God is not a person in our understanding. He has no limits of qualities. Also He has no limits of bodies. Indeed He(It) is just pure energy sistem (which we call soul in our case and Supreme Soul in His case).

BK knowledge is not a plain Bhakti. It's like a step from Bhakti to objective picture of the world. And as there was some Bhakti (devotion, religion) in it from the very biginning, so it had transformed into religion by nowdays.

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3265
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Everything you need to know is in the Sakar Murlis. Or is it

Post by mbbhat » 27 Jan 2009

Good post. I remember an incident around 15 years before. I was engineering student at that time. I was in a center(A zonal H.Q) where I used to attend daily classes.. It was a holiday and perhaps 4 PM. World Renewal or Gyaanaamrit magazine was lying on the table. A junior surrendered Bk of my age asked me why don't you read those magazines? (as if I was lazy or careless).

[Since from beginning of my BK life I just depended on Murli and was enjoying them nothing more were needed to me for self effort, I had not given much importance to other things.I was not getting much taste in dharnaa classes of Senior BKs or Dadis.(But I was feeling a benifit say around 10 sentences in 5 classes. But I used to get tired and waste of time when I go thorough other sentences].

I kept quiet for a while and after some time said to him, "Brahma Baba became complete just by Sakar Murlis. Now we have even Avyakt Murlis. Are not they enough?". Then the BK realized his mistake.

According to me there is no need of even Murli since it is clearly said "The first lesson is the last lesson and JIVANMUKTI in ONE SECOND". The two mantras are just manmanaabhav and madhyaajeebhav. Alph and Be(Father and property= Baba, ShantiDham and Paramdham). Remember pure things to become pure. That is all. But since we do not have such a high concentartion and knowingly become careless and lazy we need many other things.

Sakar Murli is like food and Avyakt Murlis are like tonic. Avyakt Murlis increase concentration and self confidence a lot in their own way. It also has explained many hidden points in Sakar Murlis. It gives directions when required.

It is intermittent(few) Avyakt milans which gives a feeling that Baba is with them(children) always. It also motivates children to become Avyakt(since Brahma is avykat). For new children it is definitely needed. By seeing face of Avyakt BapDada one can get a taste or idea of highest personality of purity and power. Not only that Baba has said I will teach till the end. So He is doing that. Saath rahenge saath chalenge(I will be together with you, We will go together).

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11625
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups.
Location: India

Re: Everything you need to know is in the Sakar Murlis. Or is it

Post by arjun » 28 Jan 2009

mbbhat wrote:According to me there is no need of even Murli since it is clearly said "The first lesson is the last lesson and JIVANMUKTI in ONE SECOND".
But brother where did you get that first lesson from? Was it not from the Murlis?

User avatar
shivshankar
working towards unification
Posts: 246
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: reforming BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: dharna
Contact:

Re: Everything you need to know is in the Sakar Murlis. Or is it

Post by shivshankar » 28 Jan 2009

mbbhat wrote:According to me there is no need of even Murli since it is clearly said "The first lesson is the last lesson and JIVANMUKTI in ONE SECOND". The two mantras are just manmanaabhav and madhyaajeebhav. Alph and Be(Father and property= Baba, ShantiDham and Paramdham). Remember pure things to become pure. That is all. But since we do not have such a high concentartion and knowingly become careless and lazy we need many other things.
Yes, it is just mechanic. Murlis are for understanding. As you had understood what is happenning and what to do, there is no big need in them. Only as a some kind of everyday help to keep focus on spiritual things and some uktees (effective methods) in practical situations. One who have good intellect, straight will and no opportunity to read Murli everyday, nevertheless have his chance to become perfect and understand what is necessery for him at the moment. All he need to do is just a lot of practice in remembrance and self realisation. Things are becoming more understandble, when your counscious is high, higher then these things. You can see them all:)

User avatar
john
Reforming BK
Posts: 1606
Joined: 03 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: UK

Re: Everything you need to know is in the Sakar Murlis. Or is it

Post by john » 28 Jan 2009

In Murli it explains how your status depends on study of Murli, so really it is more than just a means to occupy the mind.
When a soul becomes Karmateet, then maybe there is no need. Karmateet stage comes at the end, therefore study is important right to the very end.

Sakar Murli 2008/10/10 Revised
The Father is teaching you and changing you from human beings into deities. Then it depends on how much each one of you studies.

User avatar
shivshankar
working towards unification
Posts: 246
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: reforming BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: dharna
Contact:

Re: Everything you need to know is in the Sakar Murlis. Or is it

Post by shivshankar » 28 Jan 2009

john wrote:In Murli it explains how your status depends on study of Murli, so really it is more than just a means to occupy the mind.
When a soul becomes Karmateet, then maybe there is no need. Karmateet stage comes at the end, therefore study is important right to the very end.
You are right, brother. All I wanted to say is that study is mainly in remembrance. Murlis are just instructions how to maintain remembrance and soul-counscious in different situations. And also He explains some history in them. Of course it is a big deal to read them every day if you have such an opportunity.

But there are different situations. And different karmas as well. It will be such time, then you will have no opportunity or simply time, to read them. Nevertheless you can continue selfrealisation process by analyzing information from the Murlis in your intellect.

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3265
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Everything you need to know is in the Sakar Murlis. Or is it

Post by mbbhat » 29 Jan 2009

Dear Souls,
I am not against your views. See the following Murli point.
SM 17-12-72(1):- Gyan to hai hi ek second ka= Knowledge is of one second.

Will anybody explain why knowledge is just of a second?

There are Murli points which says Bandheliyan (those in bondage) who have not seen Baba even once remember Baba much better than others.
Pana thaa so to pa liyaa. Kaam kyaa baaki raha = "I got what all I needed. What work is left " was the intoxication of Brahma Baba from the much beginning.
According to me also your views are correct here.

Thank you all.

User avatar
john
Reforming BK
Posts: 1606
Joined: 03 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Location: UK

Re: Everything you need to know is in the Sakar Murlis. Or is it

Post by john » 29 Jan 2009

mbbhat wrote:Dear Souls,
I am not against your views. See the following Murli point.
SM 17-12-72(1):- Gyan to hai hi ek second ka= Knowledge is of one second.

Will anybody explain why knowledge is just of a second?
I think it could mean one who accepts Gyan gets a place in Heaven in one second.
There are Murli points which says Bandheliyan (those in bondage) who have not seen Baba even once remember Baba much better than others.
Pana thaa so to pa liyaa. Kaam kyaa baaki raha = "I got what all I needed. What work is left " was the intoxication of Brahma Baba from the much beginning.
Remembrance is for purity, power, peace etc.
Study of Gyan is for status i.e. King or subject in Sat/trata yuga.

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3265
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Everything you need to know is in the Sakar Murlis. Or is it

Post by mbbhat » 30 Jan 2009

Dear souls,
The following Murli point says that just remembering Father, Shantidham and Sukdham is enough to get peace and liberation in life from Godfather.
SM 18-12-72(1):- Manushy kahte hain mann ki shanti chaahiye. Vo kaise milay. Is par shayad ek kitaab chap RAHAA hai vaa chapaa thaa. Baap ne samjhaayaa hai tum bhi kahte ho Om Shanti. Ab iska arth kyaa hai? Koyi to Om ka arth bhagavan samajhte hain. Baap bhi kahte hain Om Shanti. Om arthaath AHAM MAIN ATMA. Peeche phir kahte hain mera sharir. To atma khud kahti hai Om Shanti. Aur rahne ka sthaan bhi Nirvaandhaam hai. Atma khud apna parichay deti hai main shaant hun. Phir to poochne ki darkaar hi nahin rahti ki mann ko shanti kaise milay. Baap bhi kahte hain Om Shanti Main bhi Paramatma tum sab bachchon ka Baap hun. Tum aatmaavon ne yahaan sharir dhaaran kiyaa hai part bajaane. Phir mann ki shanti ka to prash hi nahin uht_taa hai. Om ka arth bhi koyi jaante nahin hai. Isliye dhakke khaate rahte hain mann ki shanty ke liye. Atma jab a_shariri hai to hai hi. Sharir may aane par zaroor kaam karengi. Karmkshetr par to zaroor kaam karnaa padtaa hai. To Shanti par koyi kitaab banaane ki darkaar hi nahin hai. Yah to SECOND KI BAAT HAI SAMAJHNE KI. ATMA KHUD KAHTI HAI Om Shanti. BAAKI KYA CHAAHIYE? Kahaan se Shanti aayegi? Atma ka desh vo Shantidham hai. Abhi to vahaan jaakar baithenge nahin. Part zaroor bajaanaa hi hai. TO MANN KI SHANTI KI KITAAB CHAPAANE KI DARKAAR HI NAHIN HAI. VAISE BHI PARAMPITA PARAMATMA SE JIVANMUKTI PAANE KE LIYE KOYI KITAAB KI DARKAAR NAHIN. YAH TO SECOND KI BAAT HAI. Kitaab to Bhaktimarg may bante hain na ki gyaanmarg may. PHIR BHI BAAHARVAALON KO SAMAJHNE LIYE JO SAMJHAANI HAI SACHCHI MAN KI SHANTI PAR, SACCHCHI Gita PAR VAH LIKHNI PADTI HAI. To bhal manushy padhe. Nahin to buddhi kahti hai ismay kitaab aadi padhne ki koyi darkaar nahin hai. Baap ko Baap dwaaraa pahchaanaa. Ab Baba kahte hain ki APNE KO ATMA NISHCHAY KARO. SHANTIDHAM SUKHDHAM KO Yaad KARO. To ant mati so gati ho jaayegi.

= SM 18-12-72(1):-People say we need peace of mind. How to get it? Most probably a book is being printed or had already printed. Father has taught that you also speak/say Om Shanti. Now what is the meaning of this? Some consider the meaning of Om to be God. Father also says Om Shanti. Om means I am a soul. Then(or later) they say MY BODY. So the soul itself speaks Om Shanti. And the place of residence is also Nirvandham. The soul itself gives its introduction that I am peace(or am in peace). Then there is no need to ask how to get peace of mind? Father also says Om Shanti. I am also Supreme Soul and Father of you all the children. You souls have taken body here to play the part. Then the question of peace of mind does not arise.

Nobody knows meaning of Om. Hence they wander for peace of mind. When the soul is bodyless then (peace) is definitely there. When (soul) comes in body definitely it does action. When it comes to Karm_kshetr(place of action= corporeal world), it has to do action. HENCE THERE IS NO NEED TO PREPARE/write A BOOK ON PEACE. IT IS MATTER OF A SECOND TO LEARN. THE SOUL ITSELF SAYS Om Shanti. WHAT ELSE IS NEEDED? FROM WHERE THE PEACE WILL COME? The world(place) of soul is that Shantidham. Now (you) will not go and sit there. (You) have to play the part. So there is no need to print any book on PEACE of MIND. SIMILARLY TO RECEIVE LIBERATION IN LIFE FROM GODFATHER THERE IS NO NEED OF ANY BOOK. IT IS MATTER OF A SECOND. Books are prepared in Bhaktimarg and not in gyanmarg.
But for the outside people to learn on REAL PEACE OF MIND, REAL Gita there is becomes a necessity to write books. So that people would/could read. Otherwise, the intellect says there is no need to read any book in this (matter). (You) have realized Father through the Father. Now Baba says, consider yourself as soul. REMEMBER SHANTIDHAM AND SUKHDHAM. Then it will become ant mati so gati(as the last state of mind, so the status would be).

User avatar
shivshankar
working towards unification
Posts: 246
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: reforming BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: dharna
Contact:

Re: Everything you need to know is in the Sakar Murlis. Or is it

Post by shivshankar » 30 Jan 2009

Yeap:)
Status depends not from how educated you are in different aspects of Gyan, but from your stage of soul counscious. The more stable and elevated will be your counscious in any situation (including last moment), the higher status you will receive. Our aim is not Gyan (there will be no such Gyan in the Golden Age), but selfrealised stage of mind (soul counscious).

As for "knowledge is of one second": all knowledge indeed is in fact, that we are souls. You can achieve soul counscious stage in a second. So it is matter of one second to get all knowledge;)

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests