WHY DISPUTES ON Murli POINTS

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rmn

WHY DISPUTES ON Murli POINTS

Post by rmn » 20 Jun 2013

Ohm shanti My dear brother souls,
Every soul either BK or PBK or others are trying to quite Murli points with year and date and correcting others to know truth. But baba tells points in the muralis as per childrens knowdge/thinking on that day. It does not mean that earlier baba told like this says one soul and another soul tell baba said like this.
For example when dadijis are old baba told in the muralis like this " atma like angusti saman" but after words baba told atama like jyothirbindu and paramdama se aya hai. This points will be taken by two different people and starts discussions.
And another example. As per one Murli "Sakar me nikar ko yad karo". This point will be interpited by two different souls like this. PBKs says that Supreme Soul ko Virendra Dev Dixit mukh(Sakar) me yad karo, BKs say that, Apne ko atma samjo bap ko Sakr duniya me yad karo. Both are appear to be correct. But two different souls does not agree with each other and starts discussion on the forum and lot of time will be lost on this subject. Then how our sins sill destroy, and when we will do Yoga, when we sit this all discussions will generates thoughts - bap ko kaisa yad karna. So let us not waste the time on this unnecessary discussion on Murli points. Let us collectively come to understand on point and starts doing yad with bap. Can any soul really wants to do loka kalyan as per baba pl tell the truth on this forum do not waste our time and u r time.
THANK

RMN

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Re: WHY DISPUTES ON Murli POINTS

Post by Roy » 20 Jun 2013

One cannot completely destroy his sins without knowing who is the Father... Therefore this is the no 1 topic to be understood. If you wish to have Yoga with a point of light in Paramdham, that is your free will.

"In order to go into the stage of ascending, follow Shrimat at every step. Recognise the Father accurately, be soul conscious and have full regard for Him." [Mu 06.02.12]

"How can one meditate without the (accurate) recognition of God Father?" [Mu 31.12.11]

"Those who remember Father above (in the Soul World, Paramdham) follow the path of worship, because they do not know the occupation. They do not know His name, form, country, and time." [Mu 14.10.68]

“The new ones go faster than the old ones. If one has full connection with the Father, he will go very high. Everything depends on the Yoga (being accurate).” [Mu 04.09.74]

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Re: WHY DISPUTES ON Murli POINTS

Post by fluffy bunny » 20 Jun 2013

WHY ALL CAPITAL LETTERS ... IT"S A SURE SIGN SOMEONE IS CRAZY.

rmn, it's internet etiquette not to use ALL CAPITALS because it is consider to be as shouting during polite conversations.

It does not add anything to your comments, it only makes them harder to read.

Why are there disputes about Murli points? Because people have different opinions, are at different levels and some Murlis points are obscure or seemingly contradictory. It seems to be the BK way to deal with that is just to cut them out and throw them away, while the PBK way of dealing with it is to consider they are all God's words and so, therefore, they must be significant and mean something deeper than is obvious.

Does that help? What do you want?

(* Note to Roy, I think this individual just picked the top new topic to "forum bomb" in order to get attention. Who or what are they? An ex- or anti-PBK?

I'd say, poor 'power of discernment'. If they are a BK, they are failing in the celestial art of letter writing
).

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Re: WHY DISPUTES ON Murli POINTS

Post by Roy » 20 Jun 2013

fluffy bunny wrote:(* Note to Roy, I think this individual just picked the top new topic to "forum bomb" in order to get attention. Who or what are they? An ex- or anti-PB
I agree fluffy, i've made similar comments to yours in another topic thread, about the capitals and the blanket propaganda he is spreading in random topics. His comments have nothing to do with the topics being discussed, and he had the cheek to tell you to behave like a perfect soul in his false angelic tones. Some souls are so unaware of their own behaviour, and accuse others of the very things they are most guilty of. Just because one pretends to be polite, it is no substitute for real inculcation of divine virtues, and accepted behaviour. Whatever fluffy or myself may be guilty of, we aren't pretending to be superior beings, who tell others to be perfect souls... Yuk, i hate that type of condescension... Leave that sort of talk to the Supreme Soul Shiv, we don't have the right to tell others to be perfect, when we are riddled with impurity ourselves. End of rant! :D

rmn

Re: Why Disputes on Murli Points

Post by rmn » 21 Jun 2013

My dear soul brothers fluffy bunny and Roy, u both are thinking u r masters in baba Gyan, if u r thinking others a cheek/silly then it appears to u only as per karma philosophy, so pl do not under estimate other souls. It seems that u both are only guiding others in right direction, then it foolishness.
Pl follow baba's srimat before commenting on other souls. Why u both are failed in debating with shivasena.

Any how I will not talk much on this, but one point u have told that as along as we not recognize the Father there is no meaning for destroying the sins, it is a correct point. What is u r both opinion on Father is it coinsidng or different, pl tell me individuallly about Father and how to do yad. We all souls appreciates if u can tell individiaullly.

thanx
rmn

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Re: WHY DISPUTES ON Murli POINTS

Post by Roy » 21 Jun 2013

rmn wrote:Any how I will not talk much on this, but one point u have told that as along as we not recognize the Father there is no meaning for destroying the sins, it is a correct point. What is u r both opinion on Father is it coinsidng or different, pl tell me individuallly about Father and how to do yad. We all souls appreciates if u can tell individiaullly.
Dear rmn Bhai, fluffy and myself are not coming from the same place. Fluffy is about revealing the impure practices of the BKIVV leaders, and i am a student of the teachings of the AIVV. Although fluffy has some sympathy towards the AIVV, because he believes they are a more open and honest institution than the BKIVV... he does not study the teachings of either the AIVV or the BKIVV any more. Where fluffy and the PBKs have a level of accord, is when it comes to the dishonest and impure practices of the BKIVV, and the lies they have told about the past, the corrupting of the Murlis, and the manipulation of its students to increase the riches and power of the institution... PBKs have nothing against the BKs in general, and see them as brothers and sisters... but the BK leaders have a lot to answer for, and will have to face the repercussions of their actions in the Confluence Age, as we all will.

When it come to the Father, you know that the PBKs believe that Father Shiv the incorporeal Father, has been entering Prajapita Brahma the corporeal Father, since 1969/70... and that the corporeal Father is believed to be Virendra Dev Dixit ji. Therefore, PBKs remember Father Shiv the point, in the body of the corporeal Father, Virendra Dev Dixit ji, and this is termed as easy raj Yoga, because it is much easier than trying to simply remember a pinpoint of light, especially when Father Shiv is not in Paramdham during the Confluence Age... All of us remember our friends and relatives in bodily form, and so this practice is natural to us... remembering a pinpoint of light doesn't come easily or naturally, and so how can this be termed as easy raj Yoga?

"Children ask, “How should we remember (Father Shiv)? Many children get a doubt whether they should remember ShivBaba in Brahma’s body. Baba says that one should remember the soul (bindi Shiv)... but the body (or Chariot - temporary Krishna, then permanent Ram) also comes to the mind along with the soul (of Shiv). First body, then soul. Baba is sitting in this body... so the body will also come to the mind surely." [Mu 13.05.69]

"You know that ShivBaba is a point... OK!... If you feel that point is small then house (or Chariot) is big, isn’t it? So remember the house. Baba also stays there." [Mu 04.09.76]

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Re: WHY DISPUTES ON Murli POINTS

Post by fluffy bunny » 21 Jun 2013

Roy wrote:Fluffy is about revealing the impure practices of the BKIVV leaders, and i am a student of the teachings of the AIVV.
Point of order please ... there is more to me than that, especially on this forum where I try and respect its purpose.

I also have an academic interest in the accurate portrayal of Brahma Kumari history and philosophy and its social development. ;-)

Yes, correct Roy. I am not a believer ... although I am aware of the paradox that within the BK world of believers I must have some specific role and, if by some very unlikely chance (in my opinion) it all turns out to be true, I am at least likely to score some very good points! (I am not likely to make it into the 8, 108 or 16,108 ... but at least I think I deserve to be sitting on the committee at Dharamraj time accusing all the BKs of the **** they did).

As for Shivsena ... Shivsena and I have never argued once and so how could I have "failed" against him. Not every relationship in life is a philosophical fight to the death. Shivsena has his own interpretations and I respect the effort and considerations he has made. However, like all understanding of the Brahma Kumaris, at the end of the day they are all theoretical until our death or Destruction (if it comes) when they will then be proven true or false.

That, I understand, is Shivsena's point. That reward will come from the accuracy of one's understanding ... not one status within the BK/PBK world or one conforming to their demands. Ultimately, it all boils down to faith. He has his, I have mine ... and I am not looking to beat him into submission to accept mine.

Whose side are you on, rmn? BK, PBK, some other splinter party or what? Or are you another cult leader of your own?

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Re: WHY DISPUTES ON Murli POINTS

Post by Roy » 21 Jun 2013

fluffy bunny wrote:Point of order please ... there is more to me than that, especially on this forum where I try and respect its purpose. I also have an academic interest in the accurate portrayal of Brahma Kumari history and philosophy and its social development.
Fair comments fluffy, i did not intend to give your complete résumé, but a very brief outline of our differences. I thought you would wish to have your say on the matter as well. I believe you know i have respect and gratitude for the great contributions you have made, in revealing much information about the truth of the history of the Brahma Kuamris, and what i believe is a certain respect for the AIVV, and other opinions on this forum, when you feel they are stated in a way that is intended to be helpful and informative.

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Re: WHY DISPUTES ON Murli POINTS

Post by fluffy bunny » 21 Jun 2013

One of the most saddening experience in all this is being faced with, time and time again, the limited, distorted and negative vision of BK types. They only appear to see is the negative. "If you do not accept everything we say and stop questioning us ... You're the Anti-Party!!!"

They see incapable of seeing the far greater positive in it all, the value of truth even.

What the BKs have done is create falsehood and re-label it "The Truth™" over which they believe they have a monopoly and people's natural instincts to want to conform or aspire to truth are then used against them and to mislead them.

The mistake I made, right at the beginning, was in *not* claiming that Piyu had re-entered me and was not revealing a greater Truth ... Follow me! Ha. I promise you that Piyu has not (... but then only a true Messiah would claim that, wouldn't he!).

There's a sort of arrogance and conceit to it all that I don't quite understand. Any doubting, any questioning, any criticism is met with ... what ... a sort of quiet anger, the need to suppress or destroy at the level of reputation at least ... obvious Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs have had it much worse. Again, I don't quite know the words for it.

It's like that gang of stuck up girls who think they are attractive and spend all their time thinking about and arranging their appearance but, in truth, they are not that attractive at all ... and when you point it out they get really upset and nasty at you.

I suspect all schools had them.

I mean, look at this forum. It started before the semi-official Brahma Kumaris one and was open to all. It works and has a wealth of BK knowledge.

Would they come and join it?
  • Oh, no ... it was too impure ... the PBKs are too impure ... (even if they follow the Maryadas 100%) ... or it's impure because an ex-BK once touched it.
... And then it turns out one of the leading guys who started it is a BK who had even gottten married to pretty BK sister. Now ... what brand of "purity" is acceptable to them?

Of course, it may just be that he did it for her visa so she could stay in the country ... we don't know for sure yet ... but then if it is not "impurity", then it breaking the law of the land!!! A fake immigrant marriage. Which is it, or is it both?

So, rmn, whose side are you on? What is your position?

rmn

Re: WHY DISPUTES ON Murli POINTS

Post by rmn » 22 Jun 2013

My dear brother soul,
Whether i belongs to BK or PBK or others it does't matter to u, If u r asking such things again and again means u r coming in body consciousnesses, that is not liked by baba. I am a soul and u r also a soul. Pl do not come in body consciousnesses. We all are childrens of sweet baba. If u can celar pl tell me one thing how u r doing yad with baba and destroying u r sins. Pl do not quote any Murli points or etc., PL tell u r originality how u r doing yad with baba pl tell me.
thanx
rmn

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Re: WHY DISPUTES ON Murli POINTS

Post by Roy » 22 Jun 2013

rmn wrote:Pl do not quote any Murli points or etc
Do the Murli points offend you rmn Bhai?.. Do they not tally with the Dadis' manmat? Tell us how you remember Baba brother, and then back up its accuracy with Murli points, not dadimat. You aim to give the impression of being a knowledgeable yogi who remains constantly in soul conscious... so back it up with some knowledge. Being soul conscious doesn't mean agreeing with everything the Dadis say, and not questioning their motives... there is so much evidence(including in the Murlis) that reveals the folly in following that path.

You cannot resist playing the superior yogi though can you, telling others not to come into body consciousness. Fluffy doesn't practice soul consciousness as far as i know, so where do you get off telling him to do so. Are you soul conscious 24 hours a day?... if you're soul conscious for an hour a day you're doing well... so please concentrate on your own purusharth, and let others concentrate on theirs... We are here to discuss knowledge and share information, not give each other instructions in being soul conscious. When you have achieved eight hours remembrance a day, i will then be ready to listen to your instructions... but before then, kindly get off your gaddi and contribute something constructive to the discussions... some knowledge would be nice.

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Re: WHY DISPUTES ON Murli POINTS

Post by arjun » 22 Jun 2013

rmn wrote:Pl do not quote any Murli points or etc., PL tell u r originality how u r doing yad with Baba pl tell me

rmn,
On the one side you say we should remember Baba accurately and on the other side you say we should not quote Murlis. Whereas Baba says in the Murlis that the one who loves Murlis loves the Murlidhar (Baba). It is through the Murlis only that we know the accurate method of remembering Baba. It is said in the Murlis that we should remember the incorporeal through the corporeal. Well, until 1969 it was Dada Lekhraj and after that it is Baba Virendra Dev Dixit according to the PBKs. Although BKs say that Baba is coming in Gulzar Dadi after 1969, but they don't remember Baba through her. She is only a medium for them to meet Baba for a few days in a year and that too for a few hours. After that she doesn't count. So, their method of remembrance either in Paramdham or through Brahma's body is not accurate. But Baba says that He gives returns to any soul in the world for whichever way they remember Him. But the accurate method is that which Baba tells in the Murlis - Remembering the incorporeal through the corporeal.

“Baba speaks to the souls. Instead of aatma (soul) it will be called a jeevatma (a living soul, i.e. soul+body) because when a soul is single (i.e. without body) it cannot speak. Without a body, a soul does not speak to (another) soul. Will the Supreme Soul talk to a soul in the Supreme Abode? Although it is said that Christ was sent (to Earth) by the Supreme Soul, but there the Supreme Soul does not speak. There is not even gesture there. According to the drama a soul comes down on its own to play its part. The part (i.e. role) is recorded in the soul. So the soul comes down and plays its part by assuming a body.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 08.10.07, pg 1&2 published by BKs)

“Many children get confused on seeing the ordinary form; they start speaking in an opposite way. Maya slaps even the nice children. They think – the incorporeal one is everything. That is alright, isn’t it? Had the incorporeal one not been there, how could I or you have existed? But the incorporeal one certainly requires a Chariot, doesn’t He? What can He do without a Chariot? What can ShivBaba do? Only when He comes in a Chariot that you can meet Him. (It is said that) “I shall listen only to you, I shall sit only with you.” So, the Chariot is certainly required, isn’t it? OK, remember the incorporeal without the corporeal and show. Will you get knowledge through inspiration? Then why did you come to me in the first place? This Baba also says that the inheritance has to be obtained from ShivBaba. ShivBaba says I sit in this ordinary body and teach. Knowledge is certainly required, isn’t it? The brains of very nice children get twisted. No sooner than they open two-four centers they become egotistic. Then they keep speaking in an opposite way. Then sometimes it even comes to their intellect that whatever they spoke was not proper. Then they repent. Baba says how will I explain without the corporeal (medium)? There is no question of inspiration in this at all.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 22.09.07, pg 2&3 published by BKs)

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Re: WHY DISPUTES ON Murli POINTS

Post by fluffy bunny » 23 Jun 2013

rmn wrote:Whether i belongs to BK or PBK or others it does't matter to u, If u r asking such things again and again means u r coming in body consciousnesses ...
Well, you just prove you're dishonest and manipulative.

Funnily enough, asking whether you are BK, or PBK (or anti-PBK) is about soul orientation, not the body.

What do you want to achieve here? What are you here to do?

Provoke or annoy PBKs for some reason? If so, why?

rmn

Re: WHY DISPUTES ON Murli POINTS

Post by rmn » 23 Jun 2013

MR. Roy and Fluffy bunny are build up with 100% body consciousnesses and aruguments, Since long time i am asking how u r doing yad with baba without quoting Murli points, Why i asked u to tell without quoting Murli points is that, every soul in BK or PBK or others, does not says, how he is doing yad with baba but always says some Murli points with dates each souls says each different date and different Murli point. For that reason i asked u, star wars how u r doing yad with baba, u too also started telling different dates of muralis and different points for yad. My request is how u r doing yad with baba thats all. If u both are ready to tell u r process/method of yad with baba pl tell me other wise close the issue.
Because u both are starwars we want to share u r experiences to go forward, it u r thinking in wrong way baba only helps u. I am telling this with soul consciousnesses, if u believ e it or not i do't bother baba with me for ever.
thanx
ohm shanti.

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Re: WHY DISPUTES ON Murli POINTS

Post by Roy » 23 Jun 2013

rmn wrote:MR. Roy and Fluffy bunny are build up with 100% body consciousnesses and aruguments
Well speaking only for myself, you may not be that wrong with your comment... but i don't go around pretending I am anything else, and telling others to be soul conscious. But you seem adverse to discussing what Baba has told us in the Murlis; which if I am completely honest, is a known BK trait. What else could they be like when they follow the Dadis, who themselves have no respect for the Murlis, and chop them up to suit their own corrupt agenda... keeping their students as much in the dark as possible. Is that not very body conscious and impure... much more impure than anything i may do on this forum. If you are looking for impurity, you need to look closer to home.
rmn wrote: My request is how u r doing yad with baba thats all. If u both are ready to tell u r process/method of yad with baba pl tell me other wise close the issue.
Because u both are starwars we want to share u r experiences to go forward, it u r thinking in wrong way baba only helps u. I am telling this with soul consciousnesses, if u believe it or not i do't bother baba with me for ever.
I thought i had explained how i do Yaad with Baba, and then quoted Murli points to back-up what i was saying, as have other souls. What are you after?... do you want to know if i fly to the Subtle Regions, and have great experiences there with Brahma Baba and Mama... well the answer to that is no. Do i experience myself as a pure deity... not really. What i do, is try to remember I am a soul as much as possible, but if i was to add up the seconds i actually do this for in a day, then i'd probably be exaggerating if i said I am doing half an hour in all. Then there is the remembrance of the Father, Ram. I try to visualise corporeal Ram aka Virendra Dev Dixit ji, with Father Shiv in his forehead, between the eyes... or otherwise just remember Virendra Dev Dixit ji , with the awareness that Father Shiv enters his corporeal body(or home). When i sit and undertake this practice, it can be quite powerful... and much lightness, peacefulness and happiness is often experienced... However, when i do this whilst performing other actions(i.e. karma Yoga), it's a less powerful experience, but this doesn't mean there is no benefit in it, as the mind is being trained, and there is still at least some connection with the Father, that is purifying the soul. What you think about you become. So if you are thinking about the Supreme Father and the number one human soul, you cannot go far wrong. I hope that is more of what you are seeking with your questions. It would be nice if you would return in kind, and tell us about your yogic experiences.

Om Shanti brother

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