1st Dynasty of Lakshmi-Narayan

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suryavanshi
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Post by suryavanshi » 22 Oct 2007

This is explanation is already given by ShivBaba in the VCDs. I have only got the correct arrangement of the words.Anyways, thanks to all for their comments.
New world wrote:Now if Bharat is the same soul of the Confluence Aged Narayan, then why is Bharat described as 16 celestial degree complete & why the Confluence Aged Narayan is believed to be Kalaa-atit?
When we say Kalaa-atit then we mean that the soul is beyond any measurement or in other words the soul does not fall down(although this is for temporary period of Sangamyug because once Satyug starts each soul out of all the 9 lac 16,108 in Satyug has to undergo downfall according to the drama). The soul of Bharat (confluenced aged Narayan) also has to undergo the downfall once Satyug starts. So, at the end of the 84 births (at the end of Kaliyug Bharat becomes kalaaheen (without any Kalaa or becomes powerless or becomes 0 celestial degrees). Then, that soul [Chaitanya (conscious) Bharat] again regains the power directly from the Sun of Knowledge and becomes 16 celestial degrees complete.

But we say Kalaa-atit for the same Bharat (Sangamyugi Narayan) because once it becomes full 16 celestial degrees, its power remains constant till the Satyug starts again.But we cannot say this for Lakshmi-Narayan of Satyug because as already mentioned Satyug hain ghirti kalaa kaa yug (Satyug is yug of start of downfall of the soul). Satyugi Lakshmi Narayan become Lakshmi Narayan in Satyug which is the age of start of downfall of the soul but Sangamyugi Lakshmi Narayan become Lakshmi Narayan in Sangamyug which is not the age of downfall. Therefore, they can remain kalaa-atit in Sangamyug.

Now, as mentioned in the previous post a soul which can experience downfall is called to be 16 celestial degrees complete because brightness of the moon increases or decreases and not that of the Sun. So, as written above since Bharat also falls in all the four yug and comes up in the Sangamyug (like the brightness of the moon --falls and rises again), the Kalaa of Bharat (confluence aged Narayan) is then described as 16 celestial degrees complete because it also rises and falls and then rises again, i.e. since the kalaa changes we can measure the kalaa now (from 0 to 16 celestial degrees complete).

But we say kalaa-atit for the same Bharat (who attains the kalaa-atit state from the Sun of Knowledge) when we compare it to the satyugi Lakshmi-Narayan (who are 16 celestial degrees complete but are in the ghirti kalaa kaa yug). So, when we are talking about broad world drama,then definitely soul of Sangamyugi Narayan or Bharat also falls and rises and therefore we say Bharat becomes 16 celestial degrees complete from Kalaaheen. But when we compare the same soul of Bharat to the Satyugi Lakshmi Narayan then He is Kalaa-atit in comparison to them.

So, it is only for that temporary period of Sangamyug that Sangamyugi Lakshmi -Narayan remain Kalaa-atit. So, Kalaa-atit is said for that short part of the Sangamyug and 16 kalaa sampoorna (16 celestial degrees complete) is said in relation to the broad world drama.

Therefore, the Murli says that Bharat (Sangamyugi Narayan) becomes 16 celestial degrees complete. That means it was not 16 celestial degrees complete and therefore, there was a question of becoming one.

If instead the Murli says that Bharat becomes Kalaa-atit, then the question comes to how can the one who is beyond measurement (or one who never falls and rises because that is the definition of Kalaa-atit) can become Kalaa-atit. Does it sound good if we say the Sun gets its brightness back? The Sun is always bright. So, the Murli says that Bharat becomes 16 celestial degrees complete, i.e Bharat has to fall to rise again to 16 celestial degrees.

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Post by shivsena » 30 Oct 2007

Dear brother suryavanshi.

You have used the word 'Kalaa-tit' many times to describe Bharat but i have never read this word in Murlis. Can you quote any Murli where ShivBap has used this word kalaa-tit which describes Bharat? Or is this word is coined only in advance knowledge, which i feel is the invention of Krishna and not ShivBaba?

shivsena.

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Post by suryavanshi » 01 Nov 2007

Shivsena wrote:can you quote any Murli where ShivBap has used this word kalaa-tit which describes Bharat; or is this word is coined only in Advanced Knowledge, which I feel is the invention of Krishna and not ShivBaba.
From above post "If instead the Murli says that Bharat becomes Kalaa-atit, then the question comes to how can the one who is beyond measurement (or one who never falls and rises because that is the definition of Kalaa-atit) can become Kalaa-atit. Does it sound good if we say the Sun gets its brightness back. Sun is always bright. So, the Murli says that Bharat becomes 16 celestial degrees complete i.e Bharat has to fall to rise again to 16 celestial degrees."

In addition, this word Kalaatit is coined by ShivBaba and not Krishna. New knowledge and understanding can come only from Supreme Soul Shiv and not any human soul (includes Ram and Krishna). The word has been clarified on the basis of the Murli points by ShivBaba. The Murli points have been cited in the previous post which prove the difference between Sangamyugi Lakshmi-Narayan and Satyugi Lakshmi-Narayan.

The very difference between them explains the relevance or correctness of this word coined by ShivBaba. If one understands and accepts the difference between these Lakshmi-Narayan on the basis of Murli points cited, then there should be no problem to accept the word Kalaa-tit.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 01 Nov 2007

suryavanshi wrote:The word has been clarified on the basis of the Murli points by ShivBaba.
A polite request suryavanshi, if you use the word ShivBaba, can you clarify through which medium you mean, e.g. via Virendra Dev Dixit or via BB. (Virendra Dev Dixit or Brahma Baba).

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Post by suryavanshi » 02 Nov 2007

"The word has been clarified on the basis of the Murli points by ShivBaba."

The word has been clarified by ShivBaba (through the medium of Virendra Dev Dixit) on the basis of Murli points.

ShivBaba is referred to Supreme Soul Shiv through the medium of Virendra Dev Dixit.

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Post by shivsena » 02 Nov 2007

suryavanshi wrote:"The word has been clarified on the basis of the Murli points by ShivBaba." The word has been clarified by ShivBaba (through the medium of Veerendra Dev Dixit) on the basis of Murli points. ShivBaba is referred to Supreme Soul Shiv through the medium of Veerendra Dev Dixit.
Dear brother.

If ShivBaba is in Advance Party at present, then Mama (first surrendered soul to ShivBaba) would not have to leave the party and return to lokik life. Every year, many surrendered sisters are leaving the Advance Party and many more become more frustrated but do not have the courage to leave, as they have closed all doors of their lokik life (just like the bk sisters).
  • If ShivBaba is there in Advance Party, then there would have been unity amongst the souls and not seperation of souls into various parties;
    If ShivBaba is there in Advance Party, then every soul would have been experiencing chadti-kalaa and not girti-kalaa; not a single soul in Advance Party can say with 100% certainity that he is experiencing bliss and chadti-kalaa;
    If ShivBaba is there in Advance Party, then it would have been brahma ka din and Vishnu would have presented to the world (as per the Murlis); but the PBKs are in deep slumber (like kumbhakaran of mahabharat) and they still do not know that the shooting period of Kaliyug(brahma ki raat) is going on and only when this brahma ki raat ends that the real part of Ramshivbaba will begin and Vishnu will be revealed to the world.
shivsena.

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Post by arjun » 02 Nov 2007

Shivsena wrote:Every year, many surrendered Sisters are leaving the Advance Party and many more become more frustrated but do not have the courage to leave, as they have closed all doors of their lokik life (just like the BK Sisters).
Dear brother,

Om Shanti. It is true that few surrendered PBK sisters (may be 5-6) went back to their homes recently this year and this fact was revealed to all PBKs by ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) himself soon after the incident in one of the recent discussion vcds (may be Disc.CD no.400) while discussing about the demise of Dadi Prakashmani. The above mentioned sisters went home voluntarily and without blaming ShivBaba or Yagya for that. They are very much PBKs even now and are still studying the advance knowledge. But your statement that many PBK sisters are leaving the Advance Party every year does not appear to be true as far as I know. Did any senior BK (leave alone the Dadis) ever acknowledge publicly that some surrendered BK sisters had left BKWSU to become PBKs?

Your statements will only encourage non-PBKs (including ex-PBKs) to spread further rumours. Leader of one of the ex-PBK group has already swung into action to woo these handful of PBK sisters to strengthen his group.
If ShivBaba is in Advance Party at present, then Mama (first surrendered soul to ShivBaba) would not have to leave the party and return to lokik life.
Are you giving a statement on her behalf?

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by john » 02 Nov 2007

arjun wrote:Your statements will only encourage non-PBKs (including ex-PBKs) to spread further rumours. Leader of one of the ex-PBK group has already swung into action to woo these handful of PBK Sisters to strengthen his group.
Can somebody please explain this competitiveness of getting Surrendered Sisters on your team? Is it who gets the most players wins?

I don't understand it, is it a traditional Indian kind of thing?

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Post by shivsena » 02 Nov 2007

arjun wrote:Om Shanti. It is true that few surrendered PBK Sisters (may be 5-6) went back to their homes recently this year and this fact was revealed to all PBKs by ShivBaba (through Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit) himself soon after the incident in one of the recent discussion vcds (may be Disc.CD no.400) while discussing about the demise of Dadi Prakashmani. The above mentioned Sisters went home voluntarily and without blaming ShivBaba or Yagya for that. They are very much PBKs even now and are still studying the Advanced Knowledge. But your statement that many PBK Sisters are leaving the Advance Party every year does not appear to be true as far as I know. Did any senior BK (leave alone the Dadis) ever acknowledge publicly that some surrendered BK Sisters had left BKWSU to become PBKs?
Does revealing the fact to all PBKs mean that it is still ShivBaba who is controlling the Advance Party and does it relieve him of his responsibilities! He did not even have the courtesy to meet them at the last moment when they were leaving; He did not even ask them about their greivances. Is God giving explanations to the pbk students about why they left the Yagya? And did you speak to the sisters after they left, as you are vouching that they are not blaming anybody?

I have spoken to many sisters personally and they are completely dis-illusioned by the knowledge and by how things are handled in the pbk family and how the surrendered sisters are treated; it is true that they are still PBKs on paper as they do not know what to call themselves; but one thing is sure all of them went frustrated.

I am not talking about each year quantitatively but over the last 10 years i have seen nothing but frustration and a feeling of helplessness creep over the PBKs (whether surrendered or not) and slowly but surely the pbk family is heading towards total destruction. If God is at the helm of the pbk family, then why at all these feelings should ever cross the minds of souls? This is what beats me completely.
Your statements will only encourage non-PBKs (including ex-PBKs) to spread further rumours. Leader of one of the ex-PBK group has already swung into action to woo these handful of PBK Sisters to strengthen his group.
Truth knows no fear; if you feel that God ShivBaba is with you then why do you fear about someone leaving your group and joining some other party (unless you feel otherwise).
If ShivBaba is in Advance Party at present, then Mama (first surrendered soul to ShivBaba) would not have to leave the party and return to lokik life.
Are you giving a statement on her behalf?
I have just made a statement which every pbk knows; i am not making any statement on her behalf but you certainly seem to be the chief spokesman of the Advance Party and make statements on behalf of the Advance Party.

shivsena.

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Post by suryavanshi » 03 Nov 2007

Shivsena wrote:If ShivBaba is in Advance Party at present, then Mama (first surrendered soul to ShivBaba) would not have to leave the party and return to lokik life.
Father (Jagatpita/Prajapita) adopts (i.e. creates) Mother (Jagatamba/Brahma/Gita mata). These Mother and Father adopt (i.e. create) their children. "Baap pehle stri ko adopt kartein hain phir oon dwara bacchon ko rachtein hai" (Father first adopts Mother and then through her creates children.) ... Sakar Murli 19/4/1978.pg. 2. The Prajapita Brahmakumar/kumari (so called PBK) is a creation of Father and Mother. PBK would give equal give regards to mother but will follow only what Father says.

Since mother (chaitanya Gita mataa/Brahma/jad Gita (kaagaj ki Murli) is not created by us (children) but we have been created by mother (Brahma mukhvanshaavali), we cannot fully understand mother (chaitanya Gita/Murli). Only the creator (i.e. Father) of mother (chaitanya Gita / Murli) can fully understand mother because only creation can understand His creation fully and not children."Baap kahtein hain Mukhya ek hi baat ko uthaa aun. gitaa Krishna ne nahi gaaee." (Father says mainly raise only one point. Gitaa(Murli/gitaa mataa) is not the song of Krishna(child). Sakar Murli 11/12/2001 pg.2, i.e. creator of Gita is not the child but the Father Himself. So, children cannot understand the mother. So, only Father knows where Mama is and what task is she carrying out and how is she carrying out and not children. Baba (through Virendra Dev Dixit) fully reveals when it has to be revealed or clarifies when it has to be clarified.Instead let us concentrate on our efforts.
Shivsena wrote:If ShivBaba is there in Advance Party, then there would have been unity amongst the souls and not seperation of souls into various parties.
The first creation of Father (i.e. Mother) itself is not in control of the Father (currently), then there is no question of unity among others. The first creation is in control of the hands of Ravan (currently).
Shivsena wrote:If ShivBaba is there in Advance Party, then every soul would have been experiencing chadti-kalaa and not girti-kalaa; not a single soul in Advance Party can say with 100% certainity that he is experiencing bliss and chadti-kalaa.
Chadti kalaa and girti kalaa are not seen by these eyes. It is the state of the soul which cannot be seen by these eyes. Even if someone experiences high state, that soul would not propagate or show off. So, have you seen the state of each soul in the PBK family? If you say that no PBK is expereincing chadti kalaa, then why would soul of Brahma talk to asth dev in the Avyakt Vani, "naee duniya mein aanaa jaanaa kartein hona na?" (do you come and go in the new world? ... I do not have the date of this Vani ...). This shows that there are souls in the PBK family who experience high stage. But if in one moment it is high stage and then it degrades to a lower stage because of past karmic accounts or resolves. "Aisaa mat samajhna ki koi bacche karmateet awastha ko pahoooch gaye hain ... Tab tak yah rehearsal hoti rahegi jab tak karmateet awastha aa jaye. (Don't think that some children have reached karmateet state ... This rehearsal (shooting of thoughts) will go on till the karmateet awastha is reached. Sakar Murli, 11/8/1991.

So, shooting of Satyug as well as other yugas is going on in each soul. Once these past resolves are burnt and once the whole shooting is over inside the soul, the soul would achieve the karmateet stage. Shooting inside the individual soul will go on until the whole drama (drama for that soul) is played in that soul at the level of thoughts and until the karmic accounts of that soul have been fully settled.

If ShivBaba is there in Advance Party, then it would have been Brahma ka din and Vishnu would have presented to the world (as per the Murlis); but the PBKs are in deep slumber (like kumbhakaran of mahabharat) and they still do not know that the shooting period of Kaliyug (Brahma ki raat) is going on and only when this Brahma ki raat ends that the real part of Ramshivbaba will begin and Vishnu will be revealed to the world.

There is no question of revelation of Father in Advance Party. He has been already revealed since 1976. The soul of Brahma would become Vishnu in one second. At that moment, it would achieve constant beejroop stage. Then, numberwise the brahmamukhvanshaavali will achieve that stage depending on their efforts. (Brahma Ki raat so brahmano ki raat hain.Brahma kaa din so brahmano kaa din hain.) ... Sakar Murli 17/8/1999). Brahma ki raat ko bhi din karne waala vaastav mein hain Prajapita ki aatma. (Night of Brahma is converted to day by soul of Prajapita). Because soul of prajapita does not come into darkness of night.

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Post by arjun » 03 Nov 2007

Shivsena wrote:And did you speak to the Sisters after they left, as you are vouching that they are not blaming anybody?
Yes, I have. But I will not write anything about my interactions with them because I am not their representative.
I am not talking about each year quantitatively but over the last 10 years I have seen nothing but frustration and a feeling of helplessness creep over the PBKs (whether surrendered or not) and slowly but surely the PBK family is heading towards total destruction
Have you met/talked to PBKs from all over the world?
Truth knows no fear; if you feel that God ShivBaba is with you then why do you fear about someone leaving your group and joining some other party (unless you feel otherwise).
I have nothing to fear. Everyone is free to remain a PBK or to choose his/her own path. I will not stop anyone. I don't think that even Baba has any fears about the sisters leaving.

As regards your allegations about Baba's actions in above mentioned case, although I have an answer based on information received from the nimit sisters, but I will not write here because when you prefer to make public statements before hearing both sides of the story, you can happily continue to do so.

But I request you to be careful while making statements about/on behalf of all the PBKs. I don't know about others, but at least I have not appointed you my spokesperson.
I have just made a statement which every PBK knows; I am not making any statement on her behalf but you certainly seem to be the chief spokesman of the Advance Party and make statements on behalf of the Advance Party.
I have written several times on this forum that I am not a representative of the Advance Party/PBKs. I write here as an individual PBK. Even while writing about the part of ShivBaba through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit many a times I write within brackets "as believed by me and many PBKs". If even a single PBK or even if you have objection to my above words, I will start writing 'as believed by me'. I hope that will satisfy you. Be happy and be cool. :) 8)

Dear Admin, I hope you are working on my request for the smileys of flowers :D :lol: :P.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by andrey » 03 Nov 2007

Dear brother shivsena,

We should aim maintaining our constancy in spite of turbulences. Destruction is beneficial and is meant to happen. We should not be mad at it, but happy with it. We know now is the degraded period and these things happen. They don't prove anything regarding if ShivBaba is there in the Advance Party or not. Finally, everyone faces their own destiny individually.

It is true that we are subject to influencing one another, so if one makes a step then many follow. These occurrences you depict just prove the knowledge that is given by ShivBaba as he has pre-warned us many times and has encouraged us to maintain our equanimity and stage of detached spectator.

We know these things are about to happen, then why do you worry? We even know in advance. Then why do you worry? These has happened in the time of Brahma Baba too and in the last Cycle also. Some had faith some left, it is each and everyone's account and role. We should not blame anyone. No one is to blame. ShivBaba is the least to blame for those who themselves deprive themselves. And they could find better fortune on leaving.

The PBK family is like hell now, why should they stay? But who makes it hell? - Is it ShivBaba or his knowledge or human beings who spread different versions? What are complaints about? Are they about ShivBaba and the knowledge, or about the family? ShivBaba is always pure and the family is now in its stage of purification. Whilst living in it we should have the ever-pure one as our only support. If we make others as our support we will get degraded surely.

We are not concerned because ShivBaba is with us, he teaches us and we know what we are to pass through. You may try to depict a different picture, that if ShivBaba was there there would not be any problems, but it is not true.

Baba via Virendra Dev Dixit says that in the house of the Father, also Maya comes. She does not leave anyone alone. In such circumstances she brakes the faith of every single one, and this also is OK. There is nothing to worry about if we know this is the way it should be. You have complaints that it should be the other way but, no, this is the way it should be. Some pass, some fail. Some raise, some fall. It is entirely in our own hands our raising and falling. Please, see the corresponding extract from ShivBaba's Murli in the "all and everything" section under the topic about astrology whether it controls our life or not.

This is the way it should be, as depicted by ShivBaba in his Murlis. If you don't believe in them then you could have complaints. However, if you have complaints then he has come to please anyone. The condition of the family will not be like this all the time. If you say ShivBaba has not come then he will not be away all the time too. He will come, he will put everything right. It is only when we take the law in our hands, invent our own ways and spread our own message that we suffer the result of unhappiness. Even this is fine. It is the way it should be. In this, is where our individual effort lies and result numberwise.

You may list complaints, but is there any Murli that says that " I come and everything is fine. No one leaves, no one is unhappy." It is a whole process and we have a detailed explanation of it in the Murli. So far there is full match.

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Post by suryavanshi » 03 Nov 2007

Shivsena wrote:If ShivBaba is there in Advance Party, then it would have been Brahma ka din and Vishnu would have presented to the world (as per the Murlis); but the PBKs are in deep slumber (like kumbhakaran of mahabharat) and they still do not know that the shooting period of Kaliyug (Brahma ki raat) is going on and only when this Brahma ki raat ends that the real part of Ramshivbaba will begin and Vishnu will be revealed to the world.
There is no question of revelation of Father in Advance Party. He has been already revealed since 1976. The soul of Brahma would become Vishnu in one second. At that moment, it would achieve constant beejroop stage. Then, numberwise the brahmamukhvanshaavali will achieve that stage depending on their efforts. (Brahma Ki raat so brahmano ki raat hain.Brahma kaa din so brahmano kaa din hain.) ... Sakar Murli 17/8/1999). Brahma ki raat ko bhi din karne waala vaastav mein hain Prajapita ki aatma. (Night of Brahma is converted to day by soul of Prajapita). Because soul of Prajapita does not come into darkness of night.

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Post by andrey » 04 Nov 2007

Dear brother shivsena,

The message that you now spread that very much resembles the message of the days of Brahma Baba or of the beginning of the Advance Party (like "God has come", and "He has not left") you can see that all these messages were given by God himself (as for the believers) and children had just spread it. Now if you spread a new message then maybe you are God himself. Please, tell us if we have to know this.

You can complain about the path of Bhakti but it is entirely a path of Bhakti to expect God, or to draw his image. You know only he can introduce himself. So where do you have your introduction of him from? Maybe he speaks to you secretly, through inspiration ... Please, tell us if we have to know this also.

It is entirely the path of Bhakti to call to God, that "O, come, we are miserable and in bad condition". Baba via Virendra Dev Dixit (maybe it is there in the Murlis through Brahma Baba as well) says that, "I don't like childern who cry. I like children who are knowledgeful. They know the knowledge of the Drama. They can make themselves fit in every situation and have happy face."

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Post by shivsena » 04 Nov 2007

suryavanshi wrote: Brahma ki raat ko bhi din karne waala vaastav mein hain Prajapita ki aatma. (Night of Brahma is converted to day by soul of Prajapita). Because soul of Prajapita does not come into darkness of night.
This is the biggest nonsense i have heard; can you quote any Murli point where it is said that ''prajapita converts the night of brahma into day''?

shivsena

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