ShivBaba's incarnation

An open forum for all ex-BKs, BKs, PBKs, ex-PBKs, Vishnu Party and ALL other Splinter Groups to post their queries to, and debate with, any member of any group congenially.
andrey
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Post by andrey » 29 May 2007

Dear brother new_world,

I am not sure the comparison with the nonliving three was sucessful that the seed comes out of the earth etc. Please ignore this part.

It is possible that what you say is correct, because it is said that this is an inverted tree in the ether and the seed is up above. All souls reside in the Soul World, including the Supreme Soul. When souls come they adopt bodies. Souls are males and bodies are females.

When Supreme Soul comes also whatever body he comes in is Brahma which means female to him. Then he establishes 3 religions - Brahmins, deities and warriors. Brahmins are the roots of the three (souls are already there like the seeds), then deities and warriors become the trunk of the three. So Father is from the Sun Dynasty and the mother is from the Moon Dynasty. They are both part of the three.

Mother is such that she gives sustenance from the trunk to all the branches of all the religions and Father also gives sustenance to all religions by going to all the branches and establishing a kingdom in all the religions.

It is also said that a human is those who think and for the earth it is said that it is a non-living element, inert intellect.

new world
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More confusion

Post by new world » 02 Jun 2007

Respected bro Andrey,

Wow! Your intelligence is unquestionable. But my query is still not solved. The PBK folk story says that the incorporeal ShivBaba first entered in a mother to tell Sevakram the story of Brahma's visions & then ShivBaba entered in Sevakram to explain the meaning of that visions.

Now Brahma is capable Chariot of Shiv to deliver Murlis (in which all mystery of knowledge are hidden. Then my question is why ShivBaba did not choose Lekhraj Brahma (as a Chariot) to tell Sevakram that story. Did ShivBaba feel that Brahma is not capable Chariot to tell that story to Sevakram? Was that a very difficult task? If Murlis can be delivered through Brahma, then why that story was not told through Brahma?

Again. When Shiv enters in a Chariot, he starts to deliver knowledge. Then which knowledge was given by him through that mother?

andrey
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Post by andrey » 02 Jun 2007

Dear brother,
Again. When Shiv enters in a Chariot, he starts to deliver knowledge. Then which knowledge was given by him through that mother?
No, not knowledge, the first foundation of Bhakti is laid.
Now Brahma is the capable Chariot of Shiv to deliver Murlis (in which all mystery of knowledge are hidden. Then my question is why ShivBaba did not choose Lekhraj Brahma (as a Chariot) to tell Sevakram that story. Did ShivBaba feel that Brahma was not a capable Chariot to tell that story to Sevakram? Was that a very difficult task? If the Murlis can be delivered through Brahma, then why that story was not told through Brahma?
If all the mysteries of knwoledge were hidden in the Murli, then where is the need for clarification? Shiv does not choose bodies, he has a fixed Chariot that cannot be changed.

new world
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Folk story

Post by new world » 03 Jun 2007

Dear andrey, do you understand the meaning of 'hidden'? All mysteries of knowledge are HIDDEN (not open) in Murlis. When in the future the Father will come, he will reveal the meanings of Murlis. But this is not our topic. Let it rest. Come to the point.

Still my queries are not answered.

andrey
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Post by andrey » 03 Jun 2007

When in the future Father comes he may answer your queries.

new world
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Post by new world » 03 Jun 2007

It's very good bro Andrey. Now you keep quiet & listen to the folk stories for entertainment

andrey
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Post by andrey » 03 Jun 2007

Yes, this is the "age for entertainment". If you say that meanings are hidden in the Murlis, then this is already a revelation. We did not know that there were hidden meanings until it was revealed. We though that the Murlis were everything in complete way. We did not even know the hidden Father. We believe that only the Father can teach, give meanings, then if you are Father then we may listen to you.

new world
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Gyan-Surya

Post by new world » 03 Jun 2007

Dear bro andrey,

It's the fact that the moon gives light in the night & the sun gives light at day. We believe that during the period of Brahma's night, the cool light (of knowledge) of the moon of knowledge (Brahma) gives sustenance to the Brahmin community. Then this proves that during Brahma's night, we cannot receive direct light from the Sun of Knowledge (Rambap). If in 1969 or 1976 (during Brahma's night), we are sustained by direct light from the Sun of Knowledge, then why ... why (in the form of Avyakt Vanis) we are receiving cool light of the Moon of Knowledge? IS THE LIGHT OF THE Sun of Knowledge NOT SUFFICIENT?? Thus the part of Avyakt Vanis proves that the Father has not arrived yet.

Now, in the darkness of night, if we are totally unknown to the concept of the sun, then in the morning we cannot identify the sun even though he is in the sky before our eyes. So during the period of night, some knowledge - though very primary - is essential to identify the sun when he rises in the morning. Thus during the period of Brahma's night we must have some knowledge of the Sun of Knowledge (the Father) to identify him when he comes at the day of Brahma.

We can feel the existence of the sun at Amrit Vela (even though he has not risen yet). Now during Brahma's night the Father practises his incorporeal stage. We can experience the subtle vibrations of his Tapasya (penance) at the Amrit Vela of Brahma's night (the last period of Brahma's night). And through that vibrations we get very dim light of the Sun of Knowledge (at Amrit Vela of Brahma's night) even though the Sun of Knowledge hasn't risen yet. Through that dim light of knowledge, we can interprete Murlis so that we can identify the Sun of Knowledge.

'Murli baap ko pahechaannay kee laathee hain'. This Murli point implies that through Murlis that we can identify the Father. During Amrit Vela of Brahma's night we can interpret Murlis through that dim light of knowledge to identify the hidden Father, before his entrance.

andrey
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Post by andrey » 05 Jun 2007

Dear brother new_world,

Whilst the moon gives light to some on one place at the same time the sun gives light to others at other place. It is the same in the world.

You may say that the Father has not come, and who is not Bharat, Narayan or Vishnu. At the time of Brahma Baba it used to be considered that he is the highest form. Then later it is revealed that there is a higher form. Now when there are few Vishnus, Krishnas etc. you could also reveal one. It is seen that their influence is still small. Then until someone new becomes obvious is higher we consider the old one higher.

new world
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Andrey's new research

Post by new world » 05 Jun 2007

Dear bro andrey, is your reply in accordance with advance knowledge?

You mean that there is night of Brahma in the BK world, where BKs are receiving cool light of moon of knowledge & that there is day of Brahma in the PBK world, where PBKs are receiving direct light of Sun of Knowledge? At the same time Brahma's day & night can exist at various parts of the Brahmin community?

andrey
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Post by andrey » 07 Jun 2007

The soul of Brahma Dada Lekraj does not become instrumental to bring the day. As you point, he comes in the day and in the night the most. Some other soul becomes instrumental to bring the day of knowledge of Brahma and the brahmins. There is only one soul that does not go into night of the sleep of ignorance. We all come into the light of knowledge, when we have faith the Father has come, then we come into night, we forget, lose faith, get confused etc.

Our main aim is the remeberance of one. As long as we share points of knowledg that are related by the Father we help one another, pointing to him. If we interpret in our own way the we remember those from whom we listen. You cannot expect what i say is always correct. you also see i invent my own ways and get confused and trapped here and there, make mistakes etc.I undertake these because i still keep the aim to give his introduction.

new world
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Reply to Andrey

Post by new world » 07 Jun 2007

Bro andrey, I accept - you are very humble. I observe that you very humbly changes your views. You are great. I an really sorry, I've hurt your feelings. Again sorry. Suryabhai, Arjunbhai, respected bro ex-l, abrahma kumar, sisters aimee & bansy - I am guilty of all you. Now I'll take care to be soft in my writing even though I may or may not be in opposition to your point of views.

Bro andrey can I ask you some questions in a humble manner? I never said in any way that Lekhraj Brahma becomes instrumental to bring day of Brahma. How can you guess that I stated so? Actually, the moon never brings the day. I only asked that how can we receive direct light (of knowledge) from the Sun of Knowledge during Brahma's night?

andrey
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Post by andrey » 07 Jun 2007

Brahma's night ... brahmas night ... yes, in brahma's night, all brahmins are also in the night. But if you know the Sun of Knowledge, then no matter if it is still the night, we know sun is there. The sun will shine no matter if it has not risen yet. It will rise. Then no matter we can be in the night externally, we are internally in day.

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bansy
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Post by bansy » 07 Jun 2007

new-world wrote:bansy - I am guilty of all you
Brother, there is no need to apologise to me. I find contributions in this forum from everyone, whatever their views, to be quite educational. The wide range of views makes my own learning more unlimited, at least for me. I am not afraid of "manmat" since I have not fully understood what it is, so how can I be afraid of something I don't know. The moment I am body conscious, one could even say I have broken Shrimat.

Thus I am open to all ears, as it supplements the main learning to that given in the Murlis and Vanis. Most members know I even support Andrey bhais churnings to some extent, it is a view which some of us would not agree but at times if one searches in the mist, might be able to pick up a few bits appropriate to one's own intellect. How can I call someone my brother and another my sister if I do not treat them the same as I would treat myself. To fully reject someone's churnings is to fully reject God's presence, on the premise that "we are all God's children".

So, your response is also humbly reciprocated.

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arjun
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Post by arjun » 07 Jun 2007

new_world wrote:I am guilty of all you. Now I'll take care to be soft in my writting even though I may or may not be in opposition to your point of views.
Dear new_world,

Om Shanti. I agree with Sister Bansy that there is no need to apologise to us. We are all learners and until we are learners we would definitely err at some or the other point of time. When compared to God everyone is imperfect. And that is why we all remember and study from God to achieve that perfection.

Thanks for the above humble words.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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