WHO IS SEVAKRAM

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fluffy bunny
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Re: WHO IS SEVAKRAM

Post by fluffy bunny » 15 Aug 2015

mbbhat wrote:And- there is no age to take sanyaas.
Perhaps not, but there are rules and with a 10 year old child (or younger in 1932), it would not be possible. For example, one has to become a "vanaprastha" retiree first, then take initiation and renounce everything.

Lekhraj Kirpalani did not. He just changed business.

Perhaps the fault here is just with Jagdish Chander and the BKWSU leadership who took a simple thing like "retiring from business" ... because he had made enough money (400,000 Rs at 1930 rates) ... and dressed it up in pretentious, exaggerated religious language to make him appear more important and spiritual than he was.

As with Golden Heart, you stun me sometimes with your insults. I am sorry but I expect some evidence of divinity from individuals claiming to be so spiritual as the BKs.

By "introspection" you really just mean, "don't look at us too closely ... all our conflicts, failings and paradoxes ... and don't question what we say". It's just an upper class response to those they see as lower than them questioning them. There is no evidence to be found in feelings or an empty mind.

As I wrote recently, I do think there's a sanskar of intellectual laziness inherent within BKism.

For a fact, individuals are conditioned to be stupid and not question, just accept and conform. They are told, told just to "be royal" and worry about a thing "the scientists will serve you" ... "all modern technology was built for you" ... the PBKs and ex-BKs will do all the hard work for you ... the householders will give you money for no work ... the bhelis will build your palaces for you etc etc. It's the mantra of the spoil little rich girls of a sugar daddy ... "I don't have to do anything but look pretty and daddy will take care of me ... and then before daddy dies, I'll find another man or men to take care of me".

When I read you write "introspection" all that can really mean is removing the natural rejection your logical mind and intuitions must have to what the BKs are telling you in order to accept it as eternal facts. Even after it has no explanation or has been proven to be absolutely wrong.

So back on topic ...

We've established one Sevakram, the ex-business partner, could not be the individual in question. What remains is, whether there was another character? (Sindhi naming traditions make knowing who is who difficult).

At present, I'd say the best avenue to explore would be the "Golden Circle" equation ... but I have little hope of finding any more facts and information.

And less of the BKWSU actually sharing their knowledge.

How has Virendra Dev Dixit responded to all of this?

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Re: WHO IS SEVAKRAM

Post by mbbhat » 15 Aug 2015

fluffy bunny wrote:Perhaps not,...
For me, the 60 year point is not an issue.

A Murli point:- When I come, the whole world becomes vaanaprasth, adults or children.

So, it is not at all a surprise for me even if DL is just 52 during 1936. The only thing is, when ShivBaba entered him, he wound up his business.

But, at present, my belief is the regular entrance might have happened later, and 60 may be related for that. But, I agree that this issue is not completely solved even to me.
They are told, told just to "be royal" and worry about a thing "the scientists will serve you" ... "all modern technology was built for you*" ... the PBKs and ex-BKs will do all the hard work for you ...
That is the beauty of pure house hold path. BKs (of course, actually ShivBaba through BKs) will purify the nature, and others will reap either heaven or mukti/liberation at least.

But, BKs will have to eat all the criticisms from PBKs, and (some of the) ex BKs. They have to put highest effort and even in them just 108 or 16108 go with flying colours. Forgot this? Why do you take only half?

A Murli point:(almost right words)- Some(good) scientists will not take gyaan, but will come to heaven.

[Because again a mu point:- sahayogi is also a yogi = One who cooperates is also a yogi(a relative)].

Just think- no animal will take gyaan. But do not they come to heaven? Similarly, there will be some who come to heaven, even if they do not take gyaan.

Yet to know more.

* - Science/technology has evolved just around one hundred years. And, we can clearly see how these technologies are easily being misused by corrupt people and criminals in this world. Just imagine how would it be if science would have been invented long before, and all of them were made easily available to common man? So, in drama, those who observe purity only will be able to reap highest happiness. That is why Baba says, Purity is the mother of peace and happiness. It is open secret. But, for those who cannot open their eyes, ...

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Re: WHO IS SEVAKRAM

Post by sita » 15 Aug 2015

fluffy bunny wrote:initiation and renounce everything.
Lekhraj Kirpalani did not. He just changed business.
What do you mean with ...he changed business.

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Re: WHO IS SEVAKRAM

Post by sita » 17 Aug 2015

What do you mean with ...he changed business.
I am asking, because with this you suggest he has started the Yagya as a new business endeavor, do i get it right? Surely, when it is about spiritual matters, if you make it business, it gets corrupted, is this what you like to say? Because you also say that he was himself deluded, and I don't think these match. Please, make your stand more clear about the initial intention of Brahma Baba, according to you.

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Re: WHO IS SEVAKRAM

Post by fluffy bunny » 18 Aug 2015

sita wrote: if you make it business, it gets corrupted, is this what you like to say?

What does the evidence of the BKWSU suggest to you?
Because you also say that he was himself deluded, and I don't think these match. Please, make your stand more clear about the initial intention of Brahma Baba, according to you.
Well, we know a lot about his initial beliefs, intentions and modus operandi from the original 1930s and 1940s material.

Once his indulgence failed (no end of the World in WWII, 1950 etc ... and him as Krishna with his gopi), and they ran out of money, the business sanskars took over.

Sorry, time is short today, and this is 'off topic' for a topic on the business partner Sevakram ... who it appears died of old age a long time after Virendra Dev Dixit was born.

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Re: WHO IS SEVAKRAM

Post by sita » 18 Aug 2015

I don't mind off topics.

I would hesitate to suggest that Brahma Baba got involved in all this as a plan. The business he left was also later. Whatever might have been his interests and practices, there is a moment when something unusual happens to him, something he had not planned.

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Re: WHO IS SEVAKRAM

Post by fluffy bunny » 18 Aug 2015

A leopard cannot change their spots.

A leopard caste even more so.

BKism is just a sort of bhaibund "sindi worki".

That's the underlying model. Not even true religion or spirituality.

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Re: WHO IS SEVAKRAM

Post by sita » 18 Aug 2015

The Yagya sees considerable expansion only after he departs. Unlike many successful gurus like Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi, Shri Shri Ravi Shankar, Sai Baba, Osho, he does not enjoy great growth and wealth in his lifetime, opening a single center himself, witnessing few others being opened. Maybe in this case we should say he takes pride in establishing a clan or а dynasty or is probably after enjoying the fruit, in a future birth.

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Re: WHO IS SEVAKRAM

Post by fluffy bunny » 19 Aug 2015

Yes, but it became a guru franchise system, like McDonalds or Kentucky Fried Chicken. One in every high street (actually, the aim/vision was one centre on every street).

Layer upon layer of gurus right down to the local level. BKism gives you the tools to appear like an instant guru. It's one of its appeals.

No, I don't think he planned that in the beginning. We know he did not. It just developed on the basis of sanskars after the money ran out.

The BK version is "they want to reach out to the world".

My version is, "they want to reach out to the world's wallets to pay for their food, clothing and shelter" as Destruction failed to happen and Lekhraj Kirpalani's money ran out.

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Re: WHO IS SEVAKRAM

Post by sita » 20 Aug 2015

I think everything will fall into places if we accept the fact that in the Yagya there are various souls. For Brahma Baba I would say he was not after money. We have references that he was somehow spiritual even in his lokik life. The fact that he was rich does not mean he was greedy.

It is entirely possible and probably souls have come to the Yagya with material intention and with time the natural downfall will substitute what used to be spiritual with materialism.

It is hard for me to believe that people going for service were going for money, because this is indeed not the best way to make money. There used to be people who had left riches and comfort, why would they seek that again. Maybe they were hunting for souls and once you win the soul, the mind of someone everything he has is yours, but I don't think this is a crime. It is not an easy business to win the hearts and minds of people, you will hardly do that with money and property, or if you do, such souls will come, interested in money and property. Even if people going out for service used to go because there was no money in the Yagya and they had to make a living, they used to go as beggars. They had nothing. When you have to beg even for your food, do you expect to make a fortune?

It is true that the Bk brand offers quick guru status, but it is something that can be appreciated. It gives you independence.

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Re: WHO IS SEVAKRAM

Post by fluffy bunny » 20 Aug 2015

How else would a woman with no skills, no education, no capital and no training - who has spent the previous 20 years doing nothing - make money?

All of the other alternatives are more arduous than being a mini guru ... servant, sweeper, cook, prostitute, beggar etc. Likely they could not even marry.

All you have to do is look around India or go off to Benares today and you can see them.

There are no references to how "spiritual" Lekhraj Kirpalani was in his lokik life, only BK stories; and they are highly unreliable and exaggerated.

He was just a typical Sindi businessman, some superstition included. No obvious deeper interests expressed as far as I can see. In fact, third parties have said that he wife Jasoda was more of a religious influence upon the family.

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Re: WHO IS SEVAKRAM

Post by sita » 21 Aug 2015

This is what you'd expect from a saint. He is not supposed to earn a living, but preach and eat whatever is given to him.

No, I believe there were references from lokik people who were impressed by the personality of Brahma Baba.

The favorite deity of Jasoda was Shankar, Brahma Baba's was Vishnu. The woman will naturally be the more religious one in the family, that is why you find mostly mothers in BK and PBK.

What were the superstitions you mentioned?

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Re: WHO IS SEVAKRAM

Post by fluffy bunny » 21 Aug 2015

Like the belief that by giving money to gurus it some how benefited you. I remember the story they used to tell about how he paid off the gambling debts of some guru's chela as if it was a "good" thing. Personally, I thought it was the dumbest thing on earth. I mean, why not just kick the chela out and make him get a job to pay his own debts off and not go feed some starving child instead.

I think one of the problems with Lekhraj Kirpalani was that he was never initiated into a spiritual tradition, never followed one properly, was never really educated properly and so, hence, did not know how to or what to do when he decided to be a self-elected god. He was not able to filter out and grasp what was going on.

I mean, come on, 20 years of believing yourself to be several gods!?!

That's not a small delusion.

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Re: WHO IS SEVAKRAM

Post by sita » 21 Aug 2015

If you kick out the Chela it means this Chela is of no use, but the fact he used to gamble does not mean he cannot recover. If you threw him away you wouldn't give him a chance to reform. Everyone fails, but recovers. If you throw people, who will remain, everyone fails. And it is a bond between the guru and the Chela that the guru has taken responsibility for the upliftment of the Chela, why should he leave him when he is down and throw him away.

You say Brahma Baba did not know what to do, but he managed well.

You don't approve giving money to guru, but then you say Brahma Baba did not get proper training. Do you approve of the gurus or you only disapprove giving money to them, but receiving tuition from them is good.

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Re: WHO IS SEVAKRAM

Post by fluffy bunny » 21 Aug 2015

Unlike the BKs, I don't think negatively of gurus and "guru" systems. However, I would extend that term to include temple and monastic traditions.

Had Lekhraj Kirpalani been initiated into a proper spiritual tradition, and developed himself to the point where he was ready to leave it/them and start his own, then by that time he would have learnt a great deal about the spiritual problems (spiritual ego), the problems of spiritual communities and the safeguards and solutions for them.

One of his great problems was that he accepted no other authority except himself. This in itself is hugely immature and egotistical.

As we are discussing elsewhere, he thought himself to be god and the Gita sermoniser and above everyone else.

Now, without doubt, he was a great money maker. A clever merchant. And to achieve that, one needs a certain degree of human competence and insight.

But it's a merchant's insight into humanity, not an enlightened master or a priest's, and this merchant influence is evident right through and all across BKism.

It's run like a Sindiwork business (profitable but tricky and unaccountable) not a proper spiritual tradition.

The BKs unwillingness to accept that they or their leaders are gurus and mini-gurus is further evident of this. They don't know because they have no idea what real gurus or spiritual traditions are.

Instead of trading "jewels" (Kirpalani's business) dug out by the efforts of other people, they trade "jewels of knowledge", which were also dug out by the efforts of other people.

The clues are obvious.

They are just middle men or women. Tricky international entrepreneurs or traders. Monopolizing god.

And this is why Virendra Dev Dixit/Sevakram/the partner must be destroyed in their minds ... he is a threat to their monopoly over the BK market place.

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