Why Virendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

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arjun
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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by arjun » 26 Sep 2013

shivachild wrote:I too believe that No.1 Shivshakti=Om-Radhey Mama is not 'Prajapita Brahma'.
Then who is Prajapita?
according to me soul of Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani just enters with the soul of Om Radhey Mama(No.1 Shivshakti) into Dadi Gulzar to narrate Avyakt Vanis.
Then where is Shiv?

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by shivachild » 26 Sep 2013

arjun wrote:If Dada Lekhraj is Prajapita Brahma or Great Great Grandfather, then where is he now?
Imo.....It is never mentioned in Murlis/Avyakt Vanis that 'Prajapita Brahma' will remain in corporeal form for full Confluence Age. If you have any point please mention.

Avyakt Vani dated 18.01.1970 says,:"Baba is with you in an Avyakt form. The greater the love there is, the greater the co-operation your receive. To have love for the corporeal form means to have love for the whole genealogical tree. The corporeal form is not alone: together with Prajapita Brahma, there is the whole family"
.

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by shivachild » 26 Sep 2013

arjun wrote:Then where is Shiv?
Shiv is always combined with No.1 Shivshakti.

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by arjun » 27 Sep 2013

shivachild wrote:Shiv is always combined with No.1 Shivshakti.
Shiv and Om Radhey are two different souls. You should have mentioned Shiv separately. Anyway it is your belief and you are free to have your opinion. But as per Murlis Shiv neither enters in a subtle bodied Brahma nor in a virgin.
Imo.....It is never mentioned in Murlis/Avyakt Vanis that 'Prajapita Brahma' will remain in corporeal form for full Confluence Age. If you have any point please mention.
There are numerous Murlis where ShivBaba has said that He will teach till the end. He has said that He will take us with Him. He has said that we have to obtain Shrimat at every step. How can we obtain Shrimat if He is not available in practical all the time?

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by shivachild » 01 Oct 2013

arjun wrote:There are numerous Murlis where ShivBaba has said that He will teach till the end. He has said that He will take us with Him. He has said that we have to obtain Shrimat at every step. How can we obtain Shrimat if He is not available in practical all the time?
Dear Arjun,
Avyakt Vani dated 18.01.2012 says,"Because everyone has now to make the return journey with the Father. You definitely have to become an angel, equal to him, because all of you have promised: "we will return home together and come to rule together". Father Brahma has already become an angel. So, how will you return with him? Father Brahma showed his angelic form in his life. He had so many responsibilities. Everyone has to be made into a yogi. However, all of you saw that, even through he had so many responsibilities, he remained loving and detached. He always remained a carefree emperor: no worries, but a carefree emperor. In the same way, you children also have to become equal to the Father: carefree emperors, angels."

Who is this Father Brahma who has already become an angel?Who is this 'Father Brahma' who showed his angelic form in his life?

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Re: Why Virendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by Roy » 01 Oct 2013

shivachild wrote:Who is this Father Brahma who has already become an angel?Who is this 'Father Brahma' who showed his angelic form in his life?
I believe this point refers to Prajapita-Ram, who due to his great soul conscious efforts and churning of knowledge has become an angel, although not the complete angel Shankar just yet.. this only occurs at the end once Brahma Baba Krishna has become Vishnu. Brahma Baba Krishna was not a carefree emperor whilst he remained in the body... he died of a stress induced heart attack brought on by the bad behaviour of the Brahmin children after the death of Mama in 1965, which being the soft loving mother, he could not control.

"Each one wants to remain with the Father even now, and also to return with Him.... You now have to return to your home, do you not? You have to return home together, and then come into the Kingdom (of Heaven) with BapDada(Prajapita-Ram & Brahma Baba Krishna) - you will come close together in the Kingdom, especially with Brahma Baba(Krishna). Father Brahma(i.e. Prajapita-Ram) is in the (practical or embodied) angelic form, so if you want to go back with him, what will you have to do? You will have to become an angel, will you not? You will become an angel. You definitely have to become this. You have to move along holding Father Brahma's hand in your hand, and so what is the hand? An angel does not have physical hands (because he is subtle - i.e. has the consciousness of being bodiless). So, what are Father Brahma's hands?... Shrimat (Advance Knowledge)!" [Av 03.04.12]

"Angels mean kings of the physical body." [Av 05.02.09]

"Do you think that we should also leave the body and become Avyakt (like Brahma Baba Krishna did, in 1968/9)? Do not follow in this matter. Father Brahma(Prajapita-Ram, after intensely studying the Murli for 5-6 years, from 1969/70) became Avyakt (i.e. renounced the corporeal world intellectually, whilst still in the body, in 1976) so that you could see the example of the (practical) Avyakt form, and follow easily." [Av 13.03.81]

"Ask those false Brahmins(of the Confluence Age, who haven't yet recognised the incognito part of Father, being played through the corporeal Father, Prajapita-Ram, since 1969/70) - If you are (true or complete) Brahmins, if you call yourselves mouth-born Brahmins, then who is your Father Brahma (who should be here with you in practical corporeal form, until the end)?” [Mu 08.12.84]

"There are no true (or complete) Brahmins in the (Confluenced Aged) world now(i.e. before 1976 - the year of the revelation of the Father)." [Mu 02.12.03]

"Father had explained that Prajapita Brahma(Ram), who is a bodily being now(i.e. an effort maker soul)... he only becomes subtle(100% incorporeal, like Father Shiv at the end, whilst remaining in his corporeal body - this is the complete angelic stage of Shankar)." [Mu 23.01.84]

"When Prajapita Brahma(Ram) who is corporeal now(i.e. making spiritual efforts), becomes complete(100% soul conscious), destroys all his sins, then he becomes an angel(called Shankar - a King within his old degraded body)." [Mu 20.01.78]

"ShivBaba(Father Shiv) is subtle(incorporeal). Similarly Shankar(Prajapita-Ram) is also subtle(i.e. he attains the 100% soul conscious or incorporeal stage equal to Father Shiv's by the end of the Confluence Age... hence the name at practical Revelation, of Shiv Shankar Bholenath)." [Mu 29.09.77]

"Prajapita Brahma is (always) here (on earth in corporeal form - never in a subtle body like Brahma Baba Krishna). You have divine visions. When the corporeal (Prajapita)Brahma(Ram) becomes pure(i.e. becomes a complete angel called Shankar), then the complete subtle(Avyakt) form is seen there (i.e. witnessed through physical eyes - a subtle body cannot be seen with physical eyes)." [Mu 02.04.77]

"Are all of you sitting in the Avyakt(subtle) form? Whilst in the corporeal form, you have to stabilise yourself in the Avyakt stage." [Av 21.01.69]

"Incorporeal Father(Shiv) also meets the children through avaykt Brahma(i.e. Prajapita-Ram - not subtle bodied Brahma Baba Krishna). Incorporeal Father also likes this company of angels very much." [Av 18.01.87]

"(The true Brahmin children) will get the habit of understanding the subtle avaykt talks of avaykt Father(Brahma aka Prjapita-Ram - not Avyakt Brahma Baba Krishna, the true mother, through Dadi Gulzar). These things will be understood in future. How lucky we (true Brahmin) souls are (who have also recognised the true spiritual Father)." [Av 09.10.87]

"I (Shiv) do not enter Brahma(Baba Krishna), the dweller of the Subtle Region." [Mu 04.11.72]

"When (Brahma)Baba reaches the Karmateet stage (first of all... then) you children will also attain this stage... But this Karmateet stage will be achieved only in the end." [Mu 03.05.73]

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by shivachild » 02 Oct 2013

shivachild wrote:Father Brahma showed his angelic form in his life.
if it is Baba Virendra Dev Dixit,then the above sentence must be,"Father Brahma is showing his angelic form in his life." It is very clear that the sentence is about someone whose life was in past. So, it is certainly not Prajapita-Ram of PBKs.

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Re: Why Virendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by Roy » 02 Oct 2013

shivachild wrote:if it is Baba Virendra Dev Dixit,then the above sentence must be,"Father Brahma is showing his angelic form in his life." It is very clear that the sentence is about someone whose life was in past. So, it is certainly not Prajapita-Ram of PBKs.
You aren't thinking the way Trikaldarshi Father Shiv does... this happens every Confluence Age.

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by shivachild » 04 Oct 2013

shivsena wrote:
10. Last but not the least, till date, Veerendra Dev Dixit has not exhibited any qualities/powers of Supreme Soul Shiva with his behaviour towards BKs or PBKs and has not set an example in front of his children to follow HIM.(Follow Father)....So how can Baba Dixit be revealed as ShivBaba??
shivsena.
Avyakt Vani dated 09.03.2013 says,"BapDada wants you to follow Father Brahma. Whenever you perform any action, check: "Did Father Brahma perform this action?"

It is not true that Baba Virendra Dev Dixit is an angel since 1969 and soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani hints in Avyakt Vanis to follow him. Because, It is known that Baba Virendra Dev Dixit has done many sinful acts that cannot be followed. Neither Baba Virendra Dev Dixit is an angel since 1969 nor he can be followed.

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by arjun » 05 Oct 2013

It has been clarified several times that we have to follow the actions that Shiv performed through Brahma (Lekhraj Kirpalani) and we have to obey the words spoken by Shiv through Shankar. We don't have to follow Shankar as per Murlis. But that does not mean he will not be revealed as ShivBaba in the end.

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Re: Why Virendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by Roy » 06 Oct 2013

arjun wrote:It has been clarified several times that we have to follow the actions that Shiv performed through Brahma (Lekhraj Kirpalani) and we have to obey the words spoken by Shiv through Shankar. We don't have to follow Shankar as per Murlis. But that does not mean he will not be revealed as ShivBaba in the end.
"It is sung constantly to follow the mother (Brahma Baba Krishna in your actions - i.e. be very sweet and tolerant) and the Father (Prajapita-Ram), in becoming bodiless-incorporeal (whilst remaining in your corporeal body - an angel). You have to show the right path to every soul. Now it is your final 84th birth. You have the aim object of becoming a deity (Narayan, in this very birth - not the next one). By looking at the image of Krishna(Brahma Baba, after his death, in 1969), you cannot remember Me (in the form of the Father - the part or role played through the corporeal body of Prajapita Brahma aka Ram, from 1969). You must not take any support of any images. You have to even forget your own image-body; consider yourself as a soul. You are all beloved of One Father. Father(Shiv) says, keep remembering Me (in the body of Prajapita-Ram). Let your stage at the end be such that, you are going towards your Father(Ram ShivBaba or Shiv+Prajapita-Ram) leaving this old world (and thoughts of Brahma Baba Krishna's deceased form behind). Father makes you understand... Remember Me alone (in the form of the Father, through the especially appointed Chariot - Prajapita Brahma aka Shankar aka Ram)." [Mu 21.02.11]

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by shivachild » 06 Oct 2013

arjun wrote:There are numerous Murlis where ShivBaba has said that He will teach till the end. He has said that He will take us with Him. He has said that we have to obtain Shrimat at every step. How can we obtain Shrimat if He is not available in practical all the time?
Avyakt Vani dated 18.01.2013 says," BapDada’s desire of the heart is: Not a single child should be left behind. You should remain with him, and return with him. Staying with him does not mean physically to stay with him. But constantly to follow Shrimat with your heart is to stay constantly with him. When there is love for someone, you want to stay with them: but it is not possible to stay with this one physically."
Who is this BapDada who does not physically stay with children?

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Re: Why Virendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by Roy » 07 Oct 2013

shivachild wrote:Avyakt Vani dated 18.01.2013 says," BapDada’s desire of the heart is: Not a single child should be left behind. You should remain with him, and return with him. Staying with him does not mean physically to stay with him. But constantly to follow Shrimat with your heart is to stay constantly with him. When there is love for someone, you want to stay with them: but it is not possible to stay with this one physically."
Who is this BapDada who does not physically stay with children?
It is not possible to be with BapDada physically all of the time... but it does not mean that Shrimat is not still being received through the corporeal medium of God, whom we know cannot be Dadi Gulzar.

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by shivachild » 07 Oct 2013

Roy wrote:It is not possible to be with BapDada physically all of the time...

Imo........children to 'stay with Father'
does not mean to stay physically with the Father.

Avyakt Vani dated 11.05.1977 says,"You also experience the constant company of the Father. When you experience his company, the virtues and powers of the Father are yours. Just as the Father is spiritual, so too, those who stay with him will also be able to maintain their spirituality."

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by arjun » 08 Oct 2013

Who is this BapDada who does not physically stay with children?
Bap = Shiv+Ram
Dada=Lekhraj Kirpalani

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