Question for Shivsena and ex-pbks.

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RudraPutra
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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by RudraPutra » 23 Nov 2011

"Maya koi mukh se mat nahi deti. Act aisi karte hain."
(Maya does not give direction through any mouth. They perform such acts. )
Mu.9.10.73, pg.2

....now the question goes to SHIVSENA Bhai...how come you claim this to BABA...because you everytime try to prove BABA as Maya through the cassettes of BABA...now how come this Murli points says something totally different???

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by shivsena » 25 Nov 2011

RudraPutra wrote:"Maya koi mukh se mat nahi deti. Act aisi karte hain."
(Maya does not give direction through any mouth. They perform such acts. )
Mu.9.10.73, pg.2

....now the question goes to SHIVSENA Bhai...how come you claim this to Baba...because you everytime try to prove Baba as Maya through the cassettes of Baba...now how come this Murli points says something totally different???
Dear rudraputra.

I have many times said in the thread "who is Maya" that there are 2 types of Maya: one is the 5 vices which does not speak through the mouth but speaks through the actions(as you have quoted above)....and another Maya which is described in Vanis very often is the ishwariya(Godly) form of Maya which spreads ignorance in the form of advance knowledge and which is known as ''avidya Maya''.

The Vani point below will prove that there is a ishwariya form of Maya which is misleading the brahmin souls.

Avaykt Vani 20-2-88 says: " Maya likes brahmins souls very much. One(Maya) who is a strong fighter likes to fight with strong fighters (108). (Godly)Maya is also powerful and you(108) are also powerful, so Maya (Godly form) likes to play with powerful souls(108) only. Now you(108) have recognised Maya(Godly form)....knowledgeful means that you have to recognise the creator Father and know his creation and Maya too ... If you have recogised the creator(Ramshivbaba-Mama) and his creation(Krishna-baba dixit) but not recognised Maya(Godly form) then you cannot be called knowledgeful.

The above Vanis spoken by avaykt Brahma(Mama) clearly hints about the ishwariya form of Maya (who likes brahmin souls only) and who likes to fight with powerful 108 souls only....and it also says that knowledgeful souls are those who know the Father creator--and his creation--and the Godly form of Maya too.

The above points also hints that this whole samgamyugi drama is a mysterious play in which those who recognise and fight the Godly form of Maya will be winners, and those who do not recognise and fight the Godly Maya will be loosers.

shivsena.

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Roy
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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by Roy » 26 Nov 2011

This is my take on the same point....

"Maya likes brahmins souls very much. One(Maya) who is a strong fighter likes to fight with strong fighters(108). (Godly)Maya is also powerful and you(108) are also powerful, so Maya(Godly form*) likes to play with powerful souls(108) only. Now you(108) have recognised Maya(Godly form* numberwise)....knowledgeful means that you have to recognise the creator Father and know his creation and Maya too ... If you have recognised the creator(Shiv+Prajapita) and his creation(Krishna-Brahma Baba) but not recognised Maya(in its Godly form of truth) then you cannot be called knowledgeful." [Av 20.02.88]

* My interpretation of Godly form is not a corporeal form, but Maya(five vices) appearing in the form of truth before a soul.

With regard to the creator, this is a role that requires a bodily or practical form, as creation only takes place in Sakar. Father Shiv is eternally Father of all souls, so creation has to be taking place in a practical or corporeal form, as in the creation of corporeal Brahmin children, or practical Heaven-Ramraj.

"Brahma(Baba-DL) who has ascended to the Subtle Regions, cannot be called Prajapita(Ram) - Creation is done in the Corporeal World - not in the Subtle Regions. So the creator Prajapita has to be in the Corporeal World." [Mu 05.11.92]

Roy

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by shivsena » 26 Nov 2011

Roy wrote:This is my take on the same point....

"Maya likes Brahmins souls very much. ' [Av 20.02.88]

* My interpretation of Godly form is not a corporeal form, but Maya(five vices) appearing in the form of truth before a soul.

Roy
Dear roy Bhai. and rudraputra.

Who is this Maya who likes brahmin souls very much ???
Please answer precisely.

shivsena.

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by Roy » 26 Nov 2011

shivsena wrote:Who is this Maya who likes brahmin souls very much ???
Dear Shivsena Bhai

The whole world is totally in the grip of Maya(body consciousness), by the end of the iron Age. But as we are aware in Gyan, there are various forms of Maya, from the gross, to the very subtle royal forms. The subtle royal forms are so much more powerful, because they are harder to detect and distinguish from truth. Only the 108 are ever going to truly overcome this form of Maya, on their journey to complete or near complete soul consciousness. One of the Godly forms of Maya imo, is to become attached to the bodily form of Prajapita in whom Father Shiv resides. If you are going to get attached to a bodily form, this is the one to get attached to... but imo, the 108 recognise this more subtle mistake, and see only Incorporeal Father Shiv, in His corporeal Chariot Prajapita... there is complete discrimination or differentiation, between Shiv and Shankar.

Roy

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by shivsena » 26 Nov 2011

Roy wrote:
Dear Shivsena Bhai

The whole world is totally in the grip of Maya(body consciousness), by the end of the iron Age. But as we are aware in Gyan, there are various forms of Maya, from the gross, to the very subtle royal forms. The subtle royal forms are so much more powerful, because they are harder to detect and distinguish from truth. Only the 108 are ever going to truly overcome this form of Maya, on their journey to complete or near complete soul consciousness. One of the Godly forms of Maya imo, is to become attached to the bodily form of Prajapita in whom Father Shiv resides. If you are going to get attached to a bodily form, this is the one to get attached to... but imo, the 108 recognise this more subtle mistake, and see only Incorporeal Father Shiv, in His corporeal Chariot Prajapita... there is complete discrimination or differentiation, between Shiv and Shankar.

Roy
Dear roy Bhai.

My question still remains unanswered...I have heard the above many times....i wish to know who is this personified Maya who likes brahmin souls.....please be short and to the point.

shivsena.

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by Roy » 27 Nov 2011

shivsena wrote:My question still remains unanswered...I have heard the above many times....i wish to know who is this personified Maya who likes brahmin souls.....please be short and to the point.
Dear Shivsena Bhai

It is your interpretation of this point that ShivBaba is speaking about a personified form of Maya, that likes Brahmin souls, not mine. I believe Baba may be talking about a form of Maya, that only the best effort makers really have to contend with, that is the true brahmins or PBKs, who believe in the Father role played through Prajapita... that is, souls who have recognised the creator Father Prajapita, through whom Father Shiv creates child Krishna(Brahma Baba). It is these souls who Maya will really fight with, by interfering with their relationship with the Father; as they are so much closer to the truth than BKs, who continue to practise subtle Bhakti.

However; if Baba is talking about a soul who is playing a personified form of Maya within the PBK Yagya, then i have no idea who this soul is... but i am sure it is not Prajapita-Ram(Baba Dixit), or Krishna(Brahma Baba).

Arjun Bhai has posted a very interesting point recently, that i would like to share...

“Now you children are establishing peace in the entire world. If Maya enters sometime, then children feel the pinch in their heart. When someone is entrapped in someone’s name and form, then the Father explains that this one is criminalized. In the Iron Age there is criminalization. In the Golden Age there is civilization. Everyone bows before these deities – You are viceless, we are vicious. This is why the Father says – Each one should check his/her stage. Big nice maharathis should check themselves – “Is my intellect pulled towards someone’s name and form or not? That lady is very nice, I should do this” – do you get any such thoughts? Baba knows – at this time nobody is completely civilized. Only the eight gems, who pass with honour, can be civilized. Not even 108. There should not be even slight inconstancy (of organs). It is very difficult. Very rarely someone is like this. The eyes definitely dupe to some extent or the other. So, drama will not make anyone civilized soon. You should make a lot of effort and check yourself – do my eyes dupe me?” [Mu 10.07.09]


Roy

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shivsena
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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by shivsena » 27 Nov 2011

Roy wrote:
“Now you children are establishing peace in the entire world. If Maya enters sometime, then children feel the pinch in their heart. When someone is entrapped in someone’s name and form, then the Father explains that this one is criminalized. In the Iron Age there is criminalization. In the Golden Age there is civilization. [Mu 10.07.09]
Roy
Dear roy Bhai.

Can you please explain who is criminal eyes and who is civil eyes with reference to this behad ka Sangamyugi drama.(as Murlis are describing what is happening in Sangamyug)

shivsena.

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by shivsena » 27 Nov 2011

Roy wrote: One of the Godly forms of Maya imo, is to become attached to the bodily form of Prajapita in whom Father Shiv resides.
Roy
Dear roy Bhai.

Are you trying to say that those who see only Baba Dixit prajapita's body are under the influence of Godly Maya and those who see shiv in his physical body are the ones to come in 108. !!!!

shivsena.

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by Roy » 27 Nov 2011

shivsena wrote:Can you please explain who is criminal eyes and who is civil eyes with reference to this behad ka Sangamyugi drama.(as Murlis are describing what is happening in Sangamyug)
Dear Shivsena Bhai

Imo, unless you are 100% soul conscious, which the 8 eventually become at the end; your vision will be criminal to some extent, and you will be influenced or even become entrapped by someone's name and form. Even the 108 haven't completely passed in this at the end, such is the height of the destination of 100% soul consciousness. Maya will play a very subtle game, with souls who are making the best soul conscious efforts.
shivsena wrote:Are you trying to say that those who see only Baba Dixit prajapita's body are under the influence of Godly Maya and those who see shiv in his physical body are the ones to come in 108. !!!!
Yes, i was implying that in what i said. I think even in our relationship with ShivBaba, one can get trapped in the form, like the BKs did with Brahma Baba. However; because Prajapita is akalmurt or beyond death, then this is not such a problem... but in order to become a 108, it may be necessary to be seeing the Incorporeal in the corporeal...

"During meditation, along with the Incorporeal (Shiv), if the corporeal (Prajapita) is remembered then you will become virtuous. But if only the corporeal form(of Prajapita) and his character are remembered, then only that character will be in the memory. Hence, along with the Incorporeal (Father Shiv), the corporeal form (of Prajapita) and his character should be remembered." [Av 18.01.70]

This point though, may be saying i am wrong in this belief...

"Although the point(Shiv) cannot be remembered in the intellect. OK!.. then remember Shivling(Prajapita) so that the sins could be cut. If you are practiced to remember a big form(Prajapita) then let it be so. It means that (you) remember ShivBaba. Even in the path of worship you remember Shiva(God) isn’t it? Even if you remember the big form (of Prajapita) all your sins will be cut. [Mu 17.01.69]

I think the important aspect may be, that even if you cannot visualise the Incorporeal point form, there should still be the powerful awareness that Father Shiv is entering the corporeal form of Prajapita, to play the role of ShivBaba...

"You know that ShivBaba is a point. OK!... if you feel that point is small then (the) house(Chariot of Prajapita) is big, isn’t it? So remember the house(Chariot). Baba also stays there. [Mu 04.09.76]

So in conclusion, it may be that it is the awareness of Father Shiv in the body of Prajapita, that is much more important, than the powerful visualisation of Him(Shiv), between the eyebrows of Prajapita.

Roy

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Roy
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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by Roy » 27 Nov 2011

shivsena wrote:Murli 26-1-67 says: "Maya aisi hai jo tum bacchon ko apas mein ladva deti hai."
["Maya is such that it makes you children fight one another."]

In the above Murli in 1967, shiv is clearly emerging the future role of Baba Dixit(mayavi partdhari) who will invent ambigious advance knowledge and make the children (BKs-PBKs and ex-PBKs) fight one another with weapons of knowledge. http://bk-pbk.info/viewtopic.php?f=37&t ... 799#p39799
I think you may be stretching the point somewhat here Bhai... Maya in the form of body consciousness, will make even Brahmins fight with one another; and potentially more so than in other relationships, because our karmic accounts may be greater with our fellow Brahmins. There is much fighting going on between the Dadis... you need not look to blame all disagreements on Baba Dixit, but it is true that the Pandavas(PBKs) and kauravas(BKs) fight with one another.

"Even in the scriptures it's described that the Kauravas(BKs) and Pandavas(PBKs) used to fight during the day(of Brahma, or Advance Knowledge, narrated from 1976 onwards) and used to behave like brothers in the night(of Brahma, before Brahma Baba moved over to the Advance Party in 1976, to study via Shankar's body). They used to think how a spark of anger emerged in them. Baba we are sorry." [Mu 17.02.78]

Mahabharat war is also fought in the Confluence Age, and not in the Golden or Iron Age. Pandavas(PBKs) and Kauravas(BKs) are in the Confluence Age (world)." [Mu 20.06.05]

Roy

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by shivsena » 28 Nov 2011

Roy wrote: ... you need not look to blame all disagreements on Baba Dixit, but it is true that the Pandavas(PBKs) and kauravas(BKs) fight with one another.
Roy
Dear roy Bhai.

This is where i differ from pbk philosophy....i feel that BKs are yadav(who believe in pomp and show)....PBKs are adharmi kaurav(bharatwasis) and only 108 are true shivshakti-pandavsena who are gupt(incognito) and their combined mat-pita (no. 1 shivshakti) both are incognito. [ "The Father and children and their Gyan and effort all are gupt"]

Just as there is silent hostility in between bk centers, there is silent enemity in between pbk Gita-patshalas and mini-madhubans too, but there is no hostility whatsoever between 108 gupt Pandavs.

shivsena.

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by shivsena » 28 Nov 2011

Roy wrote:
Mahabharat war is also fought in the Confluence Age, and not in the Golden or Iron Age. Pandavas(PBKs) and Kauravas(BKs) are in the Confluence Age (world)." [Mu 20.06.05]
Roy
If Pandavs are PBKs and kauravs are BKs, then who are yadavs in Confluence Age ??....Please specify.

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Roy
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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by Roy » 28 Nov 2011

shivsena wrote:If Pandavs are PBKs and kauravs are BKs, then who are yadavs in Confluence Age ??....Please specify.
I think the yadavs, may be the combined 450,000 souls of the sun and moon dynasties, of which Shankar(Prajapita-Ram) is the leader.

"As soon as the fighting begins, the fight between Kauravas and Yadavas will begin here (in the Confluence Age world)." [Mu 14.05.72]

"The head of Yadavas is Shankar." [Mu 28.05.71]


Roy

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RudraPutra
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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by RudraPutra » 29 Nov 2011

shivsena wrote: If Pandavs are PBKs and kauravs are BKs, then who are yadavs in Confluence Age ??....Please specify.
...those people who support BK's...and fight against PBK's....this is the reason why it is said MAHABHARI MAHABHARAT GRUH YUDH...yadava's are powerful(because of some knowledge taken from ADVANCE and becoming TRAITOR)...
"DOODH DOODH SE JAAKE MILEGA.PAANI PAANI SE JAAKE MILEGA....toh AGYAAN AGYAAN SE JAAKE MILEGA."
that is why PANDAVAS has to face total oppositions from everyone...and this is real test of proving the faith!!!

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