Question for Shivsena and ex-pbks.

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Roy
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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by Roy » 22 Jul 2011

shivsena wrote:You have to differentiate between a ghost and a angel....it has been said in Vanis that this sakaari vatan will become a subtle angelic region where you will see only farishtas(angels) everywhere and then revelation will occur.....Devtas can never reveal the Father....the job of revelation of Father is for farishtas(khudai-kidmatgaar)
Dear Shivsena Bhai

By ghost, i mean someone who has left their body, before becoming karmateet or complete. Imo, an angel is someone who is beyond the body, but only because of a detached consciousness; not because they died before achieving the complete stage.

"What is the difference between BapDada and you? Day by day the stage of you children will become more and more like that of the Father. You will feel as though you have truly taken the body on loan, that you are guests just in order to perform actions. Unless you consider yourselves to be guests, you cannot be detached.

Those who stay in the stage of detachment for a long time, give others, through their words and activities, the experience of being beyond. The higher the stage becomes, the more you will experience being beyond. Whilst being in a body, you have to reach the stage of being beyond. You should experience the bodiless one (the soul) being separate from the body.

This is called the complete stage of the pilgrimage of remembrance, or the practical result of Yoga. Whilst speaking, the stage of detachment should pull you. Whilst listening to anything it should be as though you are not hearing it. Others should have this feeling. This is the karmateet stage.

Karmateet means to be free of the bondage of the body also. You would be performing actions, but not creating any karmic account. It is as though the one who is performing actions is separate from the actions themselves." [Av 26.1.70]


Roy

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by shivsena » 23 Jul 2011

satyaprakash wrote:Dear Shivsena,
You are no doubt spending a lot of your precious time on this.
Dear satyaprakash Bhai.

If one has the inclination to do something, then it is very easy to find time.
As far as Baba Dixit is concerned, I see neither advancement nor knowledge in his talks (call AK as NANK!). He is full of hatred towards BKs and most of his figures and statistics are to say that BKs are wrong.
Yes---that is what i cannot understand....how God ShivBaba can criticise his own children and how can GOD(who is ocean of peace and love) have so much hatred for BKs and spread hostility in the name of AK.
The BK's philosophy is very hollow and very false no doubt, but not because of the reasons that Baba VD is giving.
Bk philosophy is incomplete and mis-interpreted but not false.
Dixit Baba does not know his own philosophy? Listen to some of his CDs and you will go mad with confusion. There is no meaning, so jist and no logic in what he talks! No doubt he can produce another thousand VCD* and no one will know what he wants to say! It is very funny that his followers believe that these are words of Siva!
You are very correct...there is nothing but confusion and ambiguity in his teachings and most times the Adv. knowledge does not tally with what is said in Murlis and Vanis.
shivsena.

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by shivsena » 23 Jul 2011

Roy wrote: Dear Shivsena Bhai
By ghost, i mean someone who has left their body, before becoming karmateet or complete. Imo, an angel is someone who is beyond the body, but only because of a detached consciousness; not because they died before achieving the complete stage.
Roy
Dear roy Bhai.

Mama is the holy ghost (Holy Spirit who is worshipped in Christianity and other religions as ruhani ruh) while jesus is sharir-dhari like Baba Dixit(Krishna) and Holy Spirit is superior to jesus(human being)...similarly in Godly knowledge...Mama holy ghost(spirit) is the divine mother superior to rachna Krishna (baba dixit), who will never become karmatit farishta (as Krishna is devta)

shivsena.

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by arjun » 23 Jul 2011

roy wrote:Whilst being in a body, you have to reach the stage of being beyond. You should experience the bodiless one (the soul) being separate from the body.

This is called the complete stage of the pilgrimage of remembrance, or the practical result of Yoga. Whilst speaking, the stage of detachment should pull you. Whilst listening to anything it should be as though you are not hearing it. Others should have this feeling. This is the karmateet stage.

Karmateet means to be free of the bondage of the body also. You would be performing actions, but not creating any karmic account. It is as though the one who is performing actions is separate from the actions themselves." [Av 26.1.70]
Roy Bhai,
Thanks for quoting the relevant Avyakt Vani point. But shivsena Bhai insists on leaving the body in order to become an angel like Om Radhey. It is surprising that shivsena Bhai has chosen to be silent on this Avyakt Vani point.

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by Roy » 24 Jul 2011

arjun wrote:Thanks for quoting the relevant Avyakt Vani point. But shivsena Bhai insists on leaving the body in order to become an angel like Om Radhey. It is surprising that shivsena Bhai has chosen to be silent on this Avyakt Vani point.
Dear Arjun Bhai

I thought it was a very clear point on this matter; but Shivsena Bhai, manages to ignore 99% of Shrimat anyway, so that he can justify his theory of Mama being ShivBaba. Therefore, of course he will ignore a point that clarifires, that it is not necessary to leave one's costume(body) on becoming complete. Why would you want to anyway... proof of divinity, has to be demonstrated in the practical, via a body. Unless people can witness these things with their own eyes, they are not going to believe them. Also; ShivBaba has always stressed the need for Him to take on a body, in order to achieve His task, of delivering the inheritance of Heaven to His children. Then how can it make any sense, that He wants us to shed ours, once we become complete(karmateet). These bodies of ours are invaluable, for revealing or demonstrating, the ultimate achievement in Gyan; which is becoming bodiless(totally soul conscious-karmateet-detached-pure), whilst remaining in the body. The stage of being an angel(karmateet), cannot be proven, or be of any use to anybody; if you are floating about in the ether. The soul needs a body, in order to achieve anything(play a role) in this world.

"Incorporeal Godfather cannot do any work without corporeal Father(Prajapita), He cannot play any role." [Av 6.12.1976]

"His soul's name is Shiva. The whole world knows this. All these remaining names are given to the bodies. Shankar's name is also based upon his body. Soul is just a soul. But names are given to the bodies, like Vishnu and Shankar. Nobody tells, "O soul come here." [Mu 23.3.76]


Roy

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by Roy » 24 Jul 2011

shivsena wrote:Yes---that is what i cannot understand....how God ShivBaba can criticise his own children and how can GOD(who is ocean of peace and love) have so much hatred for BKs and spread hostility in the name of AK.
Dear Shivsena Bhai

I do understand this viewpoint, but i think it is an immature one. ShivBaba, does not criticise the children for sport or to make fun of them; or because there is any hatred for them. But understanding the activities or attitudes of the BKs, is a part of knowledge; it has to be understood by souls, who wish to become complete. Souls who do not recognise the part of the Father, will not understand this part of the knowledge. Mother will not say such things out of attachment... but strict Father, will!

Roy

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by arjun » 24 Jul 2011

roy wrote:These bodies of ours are invaluable, for revealing or demonstrating, the ultimate achievement in Gyan; which is becoming bodiless(totally soul conscious-karmateet-detached-pure), whilst remaining in the body.
I agree brother.

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by satyaprakash » 24 Jul 2011

Roy wrote:I do understand this viewpoint, but i think it is an immature one. ShivBaba, does not criticise the children for sport or to make fun of them; or because there is any hatred for them. But understanding the activities or attitudes of the BKs, is a part of knowledge; it has to be understood by souls, who wish to become complete. Souls who do not recognise the part of the Father, will not understand this part of The Knowledge. Mother will not say such things out of attachment
pbkindiana wrote:what you have mentioned is true and controversies will never end till it is proved to the Brahmin world when Rambap-Baba Dixit achieves 100% perfection; the bowing of heads will take place. Be it so in the lokik world or in the confluenced aged Brahmin world, controversies will never end till someone proves himself of His capability. To achieve the status of ShivBaba, one has to be in a physical body and challenge all controversies and not after dying.
How nice to watch this type of ping-pong between BKs and PBKs!
Both have weak philosophies based on some personalised beliefs. They go round and round in their own narrow wells forgetting that the whole world does not care for them.
This type of foolishness is what is called as 'Moorkatva' in Hindu scriptures!
They have a single purpose- to entertain the world as jokers! When some one gets bored they can always tune in to these joke channels.
May they live long or forever as they believe and keep removing the misery of the world by their jokes!
Best wishes,
Satya.

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Roy
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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by Roy » 24 Jul 2011

satyaprakash wrote:May they live long or forever as they believe and keep removing the misery of the world by their jokes!
It's good to know we're serving humanity, in some small way! :D

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by Roy » 24 Jul 2011

Roy wrote:"What is the difference between BapDada and you? Day by day the stage of you children will become more and more like that of the Father. You will feel as though you have truly taken the body on loan, that you are guests just in order to perform actions. Unless you consider yourselves to be guests, you cannot be detached.Those who stay in the stage of detachment for a long time, give others, through their words and activities, the experience of being beyond. The higher the stage becomes, the more you will experience being beyond. Whilst being in a body, you have to reach the stage of being beyond. You should experience the bodiless one (the soul) being separate from the body.This is called the complete stage of the pilgrimage of remembrance, or the practical result of Yoga. Whilst speaking, the stage of detachment should pull you. Whilst listening to anything it should be as though you are not hearing it. Others should have this feeling. This is the karmateet stage.Karmateet means to be free of the bondage of the body also. You would be performing actions, but not creating any karmic account. It is as though the one who is performing actions is separate from the actions themselves." [Av 26.1.70]
I feel these next two points, help clarify this issue even further...

"Angels mean those who are detached from the physical body, those who always have a body of light. Angels mean kings of the physical body." [AV 5.2.09]

“Farishta (angel) means those who remain detached from this vicious world, i.e. vicious atmosphere, vicious vibrations, vicious (human) nature & resolves, vicious vision or thoughts. They remain detached from all these matters. They always remain beloved for Father and Father remains beloved for them ... Just as Father comes to perform actions by entering into a human body while remaining detached, similarly angelic souls also perform actions by entering into the body for the purpose of service and not as a part of karmic bondage and they become detached whenever they wish. Are you free from such karmic bondages? This is only called farishta (angel).” [AV 17.10.81]


Roy

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by pbkindiana » 25 Jul 2011

satyaprakash wrote:
How nice to watch this type of ping-pong between BKs and PBKs!
Both have weak philosophies based on some personalised beliefs. They go round and round in their own narrow wells forgetting that the whole world does not care for them.
This type of foolishness is what is called as 'Moorkatva' in Hindu scriptures!
They have a single purpose- to entertain the world as jokers! When some one gets bored they can always tune in to these joke channels.
May they live long or forever as they believe and keep removing the misery of the world by their jokes!
If you assume that AK is a joke section, then please do not hesitate to tune to AK channel whenever you are upset so that you will get relieved of your heart's heaviness and get a soothing feeling.
satyaprakash wrote:
Bharat is a Punya Bhoomi and we have analysed all this in our scriptures.
Based on what did you say that Bharat is a Punya Bhoomi. When atrocities are taking place in India such as:-
1. torching of innocent, young brides just for the sake of money(dowry)
2. killing baby girls and dumping them just because girls do not benefit their parents in anyway
3. harassing and abusing mothers just because men play a dominant role in the household --read few articles in newspaper that in India that mothers are suing their husbands in courts when their husbands demand another dowry again
4. girls are not given preference for education
5. prostitution is standing very high and HIV on a high percentage
6. population is going to overtake China
7. the ratio of girls is very much lower than boys to the extent i read an article in newspaper of how a woman in Punjab has to entertain her husband, her Father-in-law, and her brother-in-laws -- extremely disgusting
8. I was told by an Indian national worker who works in my country and in my residential area to keep the environment clean that girls in India are not safe if they are unmarried and parents try their very best to marry off their daughters
despite the exorbitant dowries
9. where corruption is standing very high in India from the ministers to the security guards/attendants.
10. In rural areas of India, worshipping of bricks and machete is prevalent and suicide of poor farmers are very high too.

So how is it possible for India to be regarded as Punya Bhoomi when these atrocities are prevalent massively?

Most probably you do not have any idea why India is regarded as Punya Bhoomi --- the only reason India is regarded as Punya Bhoomi is because the Almighty Authority Shiva descends in India only in sangam yug and not in any other countries.

Even if this issue is taken into International court, then it will never be accepted that India is a Punya Bhoomi based on these extreme atrocities that are rampant in India.

indie.

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by satyaprakash » 25 Jul 2011

pbkindiana wrote: I was told by an Indian national worker who works in my country and in my residential area to keep the environment clean that girls in India are not safe if they are unmarried and parents try their very best to marry off their daughters
despite the exorbitant dowries
It appears that you belong to some other country.
You have not breathed the pure spiritual air of India. As a foreigner, all that you could get hold was the teaching of this bunch of ignoramus cult followers. Poor soul. You are missing all of India and its rich culture and civilisation. Most of your information is false and incomplete.
Please try to learn about the true India from some other sources. Then you can find how these problems are being tackled in India. Read the history of India by Basham- search in web.
If you hear the number of problems and controversies in BK and PBK you will stop all this criticism. They are surviving only on their wild stories of survival from imminent world destruction.

Satya.

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by arjun » 25 Jul 2011

satyaprakash wrote:This type of foolishness is what is called as 'Moorkatva' in Hindu scriptures!
Despite knowing that we all are fools if you continue to waste your time on this forum, I don't think you are proving yourself to be any cleverer.

You claim to be a champion of Hindu/Indian culture, but you have forgotten that whenever an Indian goes to someone's house, he doesn't make fun of the hosts. But here, you have a single point aim to make fun of the members of this forum (your host). So, you better learn this basic etiquette before writing on such public fora. Otherwise, if you continue to make such meaningless statements, you will have to cut a sorry figure.

Thanks for reading a fool's post. :D And thanks in advance for any reply that you may post. :neutral:

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by Roy » 25 Jul 2011

satyaprakash wrote:You have not breathed the pure spiritual air of India
Dear Satya Bhai

If you're not working for the Indian Tourist Office, your talents are being wasted... as you have whisked me away, on a romantic tour of India in my mind! :D

Roy

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by pbkindiana » 26 Jul 2011

satyaprakash wrote:
It appears that you belong to some other country.
You have not breathed the pure spiritual air of India. As a foreigner, all that you could get hold was the teaching of this bunch of ignoramus cult followers. Poor soul. You are missing all of India and its rich culture and civilisation. Most of your information is false and incomplete.
Please try to learn about the true India from some other sources. Then you can find how these problems are being tackled in India. Read the history of India by Basham- search in web.
If you hear the number of problems and controversies in BK and PBK you will stop all this criticism. They are surviving only on their wild stories of survival from imminent world destruction.
You are so pathetic that you are ignorant of the unwanted events happening in your country and wherever there is authentic spirituality, then there should be abundant peace and prosperity but look at India -- poverty is increasing, prostitution and HIV is increasing and doesn't that pure spiritual air of India eliminates poverty and all that unwanted garbage in India.

Just last week i watched a programme about one American author who says that the number of women dying in the world surplus the number of men died in all the world wars. He even said in India, the girls are not fed well compared to their brothers who were given the best just because girls do not benefit their families.

When two years ago I was in a washroom at the Indira Gandhi International airport, a cleaner gave me a tissue and assuming that it was the courtesy of the indians but that cleaner asked me two rupees for that favour. It was shocking for me as I have never encountered such an incident in my life. Just imagine, bribery even in the washroom.

Despite of all these, I love India as it is my homeland and it is my Father's and mother's land.

So, instead of breathing the pure spiritual air of India(which doesn't exist currently), why not go and do some social work and try to uplift the poor fellows in your country. Pure spiritual air will exist only when GOD is practically revealed in India and not by chanting OM OM OM or parading around the temple.

indie.

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