AK crazy story about peacock

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pbkindiana
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Re: AK crazy story about peacock

Post by pbkindiana » 04 May 2011

Anu wrote:
It cannot be the argument supporting the fact that ShivBaba speaks indirectly, not directly. Indirectly means through the mean of someone, for exapmle, t a Father speaks to his child sending to him a messanger. Directly means - right to his child. In both cases he can use expressions like you quoted to support your idea. For example "Your Father tells you to follow this rule" may be said directly by the Father to his child. It will not be a indirect language but rather a high, elevated style used often in educated and noble families.
When Shiva narrated Sakar Murlis through Brahma DL, He was narrating through a mother as it is said "this Brahma is mother but the body is male", so Shiva cannot use the word "I" as ShivBaba is only a Father's role. Therefore Shiva speaks indirectly unless when He says "I am the Father of souls." Shiva can only speak directly when the appointed Chariot of His emulates Shiva's stage.

indie.

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Re: AK crazy story about peacock

Post by arjun » 04 May 2011

anu wrote:Please show me where I claimed that I am a research scholar? You twist facts repeatedly and use ad hominem arguments repeatedly.
You informed yourself that you are doing research on BK/PBK knowledge along with many others and that a publication would be brought out. It was in that connection I asked you whether your name would be printed in that book or not. And now you say you are not a research scholar. I don't have time to search your earlier statements. But I never expected you to backtrack on your statements like this.
It cannot be the argument supporting the fact that ShivBaba speaks indirectly, not directly. Indirectly means through the mean of someone, for exapmle, t a Father speaks to his child sending to him a messanger. Directly means - right to his child. In both cases he can use expressions like you quoted to support your idea. For example "Your Father tells you to follow this rule" may be said directly by the Father to his child. It will not be a indirect language but rather a high, elevated style used often in educated and noble families.
I have already replied to you with proof. It is upto you to accept it or not. Almost every BK and PBK knows that ShivBaba speaks in indirect language. If you don't want to accept that fact it is your botheration. Your non-acceptance of this fact will not change the truth.

For your kind information I am quoting the following Murli point as an example:
1003.

“You sit in remembrance in the morning. This sitting is also good. You know that Baba has come. Whether the Father came or the Dada came is known only to them. He will see each and every child. He gives sakaash (spiritual power) to each one. It is a fire of Yoga, isn’t it? Their sins should be burnt through the fire of Yoga. It is as if he sits and gives light. He gives searchlight to each soul. For example the Father says – I sit and give current (i.e. power) to each soul so that they are filled with power. If someone’s intellect is busy outside, then he will not be able to catch the current. The intellect will keep wandering somewhere or the other. Then what will they get? It is said – Mithra ghur ta ghuraay; if you love me you will get love. If the intellect keeps wandering outside then the battery will not be charged.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 13.03.09, pg 3&4 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

Why does Baba use the words 'the Father' 'the Dada' or 'He gives seachlight', 'he sits', etc. when He can simply say 'I and Dada' or 'I give searchlight', 'I sit' etc.?

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Re: AK crazy story about peacock

Post by arjun » 04 May 2011

Please show me where I claimed that I am a research scholar? You twist facts repeatedly and use ad hominem arguments repeatedly.
I have been provided the following statement of anu by a member through private mail. But I do not have the exact date.
anu wrote:Then, I published here a set of research questions which I discussed with a student from the West; yes that person was a female. She prepared a list of issues which I once published in the topic search for answers. I met with her and duscuss things in Skype and we both agreed that those points need clarification. She said that she had already sent some of them to Baba and that she would send all of them. Last time we spoke in August 2010 and she told me that she did not receive any answer after months apart from teh direction to leave all research. She mentioned that some other students from the West also sent to Baba similar questions. Then, I decided to post those questions (see: search for answers) in the forum. My decision to post them was additionally supported by my independent discoveries of many contradictions and ambiguities in AK. Anyway, I maintain regular contacts and exchange views with that person; professionally we have a lots in common.
Have you not typed these words?

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Re: AK crazy story about peacock

Post by ANU » 05 May 2011

Yes, arjun I did. But individual research in these issue do not make me a scholar as you said.
You tend to use words through which you try to prove your assumptions. What do you try to prove know? Couldn't you say what you want from me?
Are you trying to prove that the peacock indeed conceives by tears by creating a hostile atmosphere around me and redirecting attention to you accusing me of your halucinations?

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Re: AK crazy story about peacock

Post by arjun » 05 May 2011

anu wrote:Are you trying to prove that the peacock indeed conceives by tears by creating a hostile atmosphere around me and redirecting attention to you accusing me of your halucinations?
Please do not do what you don't expect from others. You are trying to mix up issues and putting words into my mouth.

The issue of peacock conceiving through tears was prevalent among Hindus since hundreds of years and was raised by ShivBaba in the basic knowledge (Sakar Murlis) as well as the advance knowledge (clarification Murlis and discussions). Now that you have produced some evidence against it, we will have to seek clarification from Baba in this regard.

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Re: AK crazy story about peacock

Post by ANU » 07 May 2011

arjun wrote:Now that you have produced some evidence against it, we will have to seek clarification from Baba in this regard.
But what will AIVV do with the up-till-now teachings that the peacock is the only animal nowadays which conceives through tears and no one saw it mounting the peahen? What will the teachings that the peacock cannot mount the peahen because of its long tail? It was already taught and widely explained as a fact. Will we now seek for a redefinition of what ShivBaba meant when he taught this to again justify that whatever he says it is true and true?

Sorry, but this way of teaching does raise my great doubts regarding credibility. Indeed.

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Re: AK crazy story about peacock

Post by nivi » 08 May 2011

Dear Anu,

For a minute lets keep the peacock story aside, what do you have to say about millions or even billions of Christians who believe that Jesus Christ was born through a virgin mother ? Meaning he took a pure birth..! How did it happen in Copper Age since Christianity started from Copper Age when the world becomes body conscious or vicious..Do you think all those followers of Christianity has lost their minds, or something else that we are not taking into consideration.?

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Re: AK crazy story about peacock

Post by ANU » 08 May 2011

nivi wrote:For a minute lets keep the peacock story aside, what do you have to say about millions or even billions of Christians who believe that Jesus Christ was born through a virgin mother ?
No nive, I will not, becasue I do not analyse in this topic Christian fairy tales, but a substantial teaching spread by the teacher who is consider to be God. I refer to a very important AK point which remains contradictory to facts and on which a part of AK doctrine was built. And this point (I repeat that Baba Virendra Dev Dixit teaching that the peacock is the only speacies nowadays which conceives through tears and it doesn't mount the peahen because of its tail) after decades has turned to be not true.

I am interesting how does it come that we have been fed with untruth for so long. I understand that you don't mind being taught it. I do.

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Re: AK crazy story about peacock

Post by arjun » 08 May 2011

anu wrote:But what will AIVV do with the up-till-now teachings that the peacock is the only animal nowadays which conceives through tears and no one saw it mounting the peahen? What will the teachings that the peacock cannot mount the peahen because of its long tail? It was already taught and widely explained as a fact. Will we now seek for a redefinition of what ShivBaba meant when he taught this to again justify that whatever he says it is true and true?

Sorry, but this way of teaching does raise my great doubts regarding credibility. Indeed.
The Supreme Teacher is still with us and our study of Godly knowledge is not yet finished. So, please don't worry about us.
No nive, I will not, becasue I do not analyse in this topic Christian fairy tales
Why will you? You can attack only small groups. You cannot face the powerful religions which have been spreading bigger lies since many centuries. You will never appreciate AIVV for nailing the lies of big powerful religions and groups like BKIVV. You know that AIVV cannot harm you in any way and so you choose to attack it secretly from the safe confines of your home (which according to you keeps changing).

You claim above that you don't mix up topics, but in another topic you asked shivsena about the proof of Mama (Kamala Devi) being married although that issue was not relevant to the topic.

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Re: AK crazy story about peacock

Post by nivi » 08 May 2011

ANU wrote: No nive, I will not, becasue I do not analyse in this topic Christian fairy tales, but a substantial teaching spread by the teacher who is consider to be God. I refer to a very important AK point which remains contradictory to facts and on which a part of AK doctrine was built. And this point (I repeat that Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit teaching that the peacock is the only speacies nowadays which conceives through tears and it doesn't mount the peahen because of its tail) after decades has turned to be not true.
I am interesting how does it come that we have been fed with untruth for so long. I understand that you don't mind being taught it. I do.
For God's sake Anu, just let it go..! How much time are you going to waste on something that probably makes little difference in your life. What difference does it make to you or me any one of us how this bird/animal, the peacock mates?? Don't you think God has better things to teach us then to discuss animal mating habits with us. Are you not blowing this whole peacock story out of proportion..I thought after taking knowledge our focus had always been transformation of self and the world, our part in Golden Age, our future, our part, our destiny etc..

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Re: AK crazy story about peacock

Post by nivi » 08 May 2011

ANU wrote: No nive, I will not, becasue I do not analyse in this topic Christian fairy tales, but a substantial teaching spread by the teacher who is consider to be God. I refer to a very important AK point which remains contradictory to facts and on which a part of AK doctrine was built. And this point (I repeat that Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit teaching that the peacock is the only speacies nowadays which conceives through tears and it doesn't mount the peahen because of its tail) after decades has turned to be not true.
I am interesting how does it come that we have been fed with untruth for so long. I understand that you don't mind being taught it. I do.
For God's sake Anu, just let it go..! How much time are you going to waste on something that probably makes little difference in your life. What difference does it make to you or me any one of us how this bird/animal, the peacock mates?? Don't you think God has better things to teach us then to discuss animal mating habits with us. Are you not blowing this whole peacock story out of proportion..I thought after taking knowledge our focus had always been transformation of self and the world, our part in Golden Age, our future, our part, our destiny etc..

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Re: AK crazy story about peacock

Post by ANU » 08 May 2011

arjun wrote:The Supreme Teacher is still with us and our study of Godly knowledge is not yet finished. So, please don't worry about us.
I worry about myself.

arjun wrote:Why will you? You can attack only small groups.
I do not attack a small group or groups. I have spent long years dedicating everything to AK and sevice and took for granted that every single word spoke by Baba in AK is the truth. When I started discovering the other side of his teaching, I lost the last hope I had in my heart - the hope for God's truth. I take part in a forum which is dedicated to exchange views on the topic of AK, so I present here inconsistencies that AK contains, in my view. This is not attack, I do not find it to be attacks. If you feel attacked, sorry, this is your problem. For me this is another indication that something unhonest is hidden in AK.
arjun wrote:You cannot face the powerful religions which have been spreading bigger lies since many centuries. You will never appreciate AIVV for nailing the lies of big powerful religions and groups like BKIVV. You know that AIVV cannot harm you in any way and so you choose to attack it secretly from the safe confines of your home (which according to you keeps changing).
You maybe astonished, but for the first time in my life I challenged crazy Hindu tradition when I was at primary school. I used to fight with hypocrisy and prejudice present in this religion. But, a funny thing is that you wrote "(...) which have been spreading bigger lies since many centuries." This sentence indirectly confirms the presence of lies in AK.

AIVV have alredy managed to harm me quite a lot. I think that I have suffered serious harm because of AIVV teachings. They contain serious intellectual harm, harm of my family, harm of my heart. I think that it is quite a lot.

The way of AIVV nailing the lies of big powerful religions and BKs seems to really strange. Have you ever, I means AIVV, stood for your teachings about all religions in any open debate with representatives of those religions? Have you ever stood in an open debate with BKIVV? Never. The author of these teachings records his words (often violent words which could be emotionally hurting for ordinary people) pronounced in a closed gathering and then publishes them and later on he hides himself and spreads the information that someone wants to kill him. He doesn't stand up face to face with those people who he attacks and nailes their lies. It is a fair play? I doubt!

I do not hide myself, whatever you may say. I also do not have my home, contrary to what you are trying to assume or assing to me. I lost my home as a result of following Baba's directions. And the fact that I change the place of my living is a direct result of his directions I used to receive from him.

arjun wrote:You claim above that you don't mix up topics, but in another topic you asked shivsena about the proof of Mama (Kamala Devi) being married although that issue was not relevant to the topic.
Yes you are right. I did not say it to shivsena. I am absolutely shocked by that information that Jagadamba Kamla Devi Dixit got married. Absolutely shocked, indeed.

If we are to discuss the lies of big religions, let's open a new topic. There, we could gather and discuss the AK teaching of the Tree. I personnaly would love to understand on the basis of what proofs Baba Virendra Dev Dixit describes particular religions as he does.

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Re: AK crazy story about peacock

Post by ANU » 08 May 2011

nivi wrote:How much time are you going to waste on something that probably makes little difference in your life. What difference does it make to you or me any one of us how this bird/animal, the peacock mates?? Don't you think God has better things to teach us then to discuss animal mating habits with us. Are you not blowing this whole peacock story out of proportion..I thought after taking knowledge our focus had always been transformation of self and the world, our part in Golden Age, our future, our part, our destiny etc..
If God has better things to teach then why does he raise such issues at all, and why does he teaches them wrong?

It doesn't make a little difference in my life. Maybe in yours it does. Fine. But not in mine, because I taught this crazy story to many people. Exactly in the same way Baba taught me. And that is why it does matter to me.

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Re: AK crazy story about peacock

Post by arjun » 08 May 2011

anu wrote:But, a funny thing is that you wrote "(...) which have been spreading bigger lies since many centuries." This sentence indirectly confirms the presence of lies in AK.
I knew you would twist my sentence like this. I was only talking in reference to your so-called lies that you attribute to AIVV. But you twisted it to mean that I accept that AIVV teaches lies. You are doing one by one all that you accused me of doing. Very good. :D
anu wrote:The way of AIVV nailing the lies of big powerful religions and BKs seems to really strange. Have you ever, I means AIVV, stood for your teachings about all religions in any open debate with representatives of those religions? Have you ever stood in an open debate with BKIVV? Never.
You are once again spreading lies. PBKs have invited BKs to a debate on Godly knowledge. But they never accepted it. PBKs even tried to meet Dadis at Mount Abu to request them to engage in debate, but they never accepted. If you are so concerned, you can try to convince them to at least engage in debate with us on this forum indirectly by becoming a Member. I have been member of various forums related to BK/PBK/ex-BK/ex-PBKs since many years. And BKWSU has never replied to a single question raised on these fora. So, before accusing anyone please check the facts.
I do not hide myself, whatever you may say. I also do not have my home, contrary to what you are trying to assume or assing to me. I lost my home as a result of following Baba's directions. And the fact that I change the place of my living is a direct result of his directions I used to receive from him.
When we do not know your identity, how can we know whether whatever you are saying is true or not? You are accusing Baba of causing loss of home (I suppose it means your spouse/family); but how can we know whether you have followed Shrimat completely or not? There are hundreds of discussion CDs where mothers in bondages discussed their problems (their husbands not helping them or creating obstacles) and Baba never asked them to come to gitapathshala or mini-Madhubans without their husbands' permission. He always says that you have to first clear your karmic accounts before coming for classes. First you have to fulfill your marriage vows. You should not worry about your family members as Baba has guaranteed that they will definitely become PBKs in the end.

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Re: AK crazy story about peacock

Post by ANU » 08 May 2011

If BKIVV cannot accept the invitation to a debate, then there must be something wrong also on AIVV's, not only on BKs. I myself have never heard that AIVV invited openly and officially BKIVV to a debate. I only heard that a package containing AK was sent to them via registered mail. I heard that some students tried to meet Dadis and Didis and Dadis Didis did not want to meet them.

I have never heard that AIVV invited representatives of any religion to a debate. Of course, what I heard may be incomplete.

arjun wrote: When we do not know your identity, how can we know whether whatever you are saying is true or not?
If you evaluate people's credibility by their identity and by their identity not by facts you evaluate whether they speak truth, then I admit this is a great strange practice, very well based on the body and reminds of so called ad hominem practices. I have noticed arjun uses ad hominem sometimes.

If words contain true, they will remain true, no matter what is the identity of a person who speaks. If you want to judge, whether words are true depending on what the speaker's identity is, you are very like to commit prejudice.
arjun wrote:I suppose it means your spouse/family
Again you suppose something wrong.
arjun wrote:First you have to fulfill your marriage vows.
Again a great mistake of your assumptions.

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