Controversy - let's live what we preach

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nivi
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Re: Controversy - let's live what we preach

Post by nivi » 17 Mar 2011

Why are we getting so hung-up on labels? Baba says our eyes deceive us the most, and right now all our eyes have become criminal eyes! If we see things from these eyes we are certainly dividing the world into pieces by labels such as "He is Indian..,I am american..,I am female..,He is rich..,He is Christian..,She is Hindu.., He is Brahmin..,He is poor.., She speaks Chinese.., and so forth...This is where Maya gets control of us the most and does not let us see the truth. The soul takes many, many births with half the time as a males and as the rest of the time as female, plays its part in many different parts of the world, some birth we are born in a rich family and sometimes in poor family..Even when we see each as males or females and gives rise to body consciousness . That's why Baba says to transform our 'criminal eyes' to 'civil eyes' .. So, in essence the soul does not belong to any particular gender, language, nationality, race, caste since it changes its costume birth after birth. Perhaps this is why Baba keeps repeating over and over again 'remember your true self as soul, and see others and remember your supreme Father to transform yourself.

Nivi

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arjun
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Re: Controversy - let's live what we preach

Post by arjun » 17 Mar 2011

nivi wrote:Lately we have been seeing a lot of drama on the forum and it really goes to show how much we are further dividing ourselves and humanity..All this fighting, disagreements and arguments are caused by our own thoughts and solves nothing. God comes to earth to unite humanity and establishing one family(Vasudah Kutmbh) by teaching us soul consciousness, and how at the end of the day we are all simply souls, children of the same ONE Father. But we have been doing the opposite; and our own thoughts is dividing humanity into so many pieces. Let's leave all our differences aside and focus on what is really important to us and what unties us as humans.
Sister nivi,
Your views are good, but can we really be soul conscious or united without realizing the truth?
Why are we getting so hung-up on labels? Baba says our eyes deceive us the most, and right now all our eyes have become criminal eyes! If we see things from these eyes we are certainly dividing the world into pieces by labels such as "He is Indian..,I am american..,I am female..,He is rich..,He is Christian..,She is Hindu.., He is Brahmin..,He is poor.., She speaks Chinese.., and so forth...This is where Maya gets control of us the most and does not let us see the truth.
I am not at all after labels. I never asked any other member about their nationality, gender, etc. The issue of ID of anu came up only because she wanted answers from Baba and He wanted to know about his/her real identity and I never asked anu to reveal his/her identity on the forum. I asked her to reveal his/her identity to Baba directly. I cannot understand what's so body conscious about this? If someone is leveling some allegations against a personality and if that person wants him/her to reveal his/her identity privately to him, how does this make that personality (or the person conveying his message) body conscious?

In fact, is it not body consciousness that an anonymous person is criticising someone (who is not a member of this forum and cannot/does not wish to come to defend himself) whose ID is known to everyone?

OGS,
Arjun

Note: I hope anu is not offended by my conversation with nivi. If he/she feels offended even by my conversation with nivi, I would stop that.

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Re: Controversy - let's live what we preach

Post by nivi » 17 Mar 2011

Arjun Bhai,

I think Truth, Soul consciousness, and God go hand in hand. As the say "Shiv is God, God is truth, and truth is beautiful. I somehow cannot get the exact translation in English, but essence is there!

**Bhai would you please delete my previous post which somehow posted twice.**

Nivi

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Re: Controversy - let's live what we preach

Post by ANU » 17 Mar 2011

If a teacher gives teachings which are supposed to bring unity, and his students fall in conflicts because of his teaching or feel lost, I would never blame only students, but also the teacher. If a student cannot understand teacher properly, I would not blame only the student's capacity or his karmic accounts (which remains AIVV practice), but also the methods the teacher uses and the way he teaches. In my work I believe that actually bad students don't exist, but there are plenty of bad teachers who bring students down and install in them false assumptions.

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Re: Controversy - let's live what we preach

Post by nivi » 17 Mar 2011

Arjun Bhai,

By no means I was picking at you, but just making a general statement which applies to all of us..I am also guilty of labels just like everyone because we are still effort makers. Yes it is fine if Baba asked to reveal identity for person asking question which is different matter all together. My point was more along the lines of Gyan and putting into practise what we are taught.

Nivi

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Re: Controversy - let's live what we preach

Post by nivi » 17 Mar 2011

Dear Anu,

Which Murli point is in conflict and you are feeling lost..?

Nivi

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Re: Controversy - let's live what we preach

Post by ANU » 17 Mar 2011

I don't feel lost. What I said I referred to overall situation - conradictions, ambiguities and false information contained in AIVV doctrine taught by AIVV teacher which help induce conflicts among students.

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Re: Controversy - let's live what we preach

Post by nivi » 17 Mar 2011

Dear Anu,

This organization is unique in a sense that the core foundation of both BKWSU and AIVV is center towards the 1st lesson which is soul consciousness... In each and every Murli it is repeated to remember your soul first. As much as we paid attention to this and put into practice this first lesson to that extent we can grasp the meaning of Shiv Baba's Murli's. If we don't read/listen to Murli in soul consciousness it is just like reading a novel. We simply miss the real meaning.


Nivi

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Re: Controversy - let's live what we preach

Post by arjun » 18 Mar 2011

nivi wrote:My point was more along the lines of Gyan and putting into practise what we are taught.
I agree. Thanks.

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Re: Controversy - let's live what we preach

Post by Roy » 18 Mar 2011

nivi wrote:This organization is unique in a sense that the core foundation of both BKWSU and AIVV is center towards the 1st lesson which is soul consciousness... In each and every Murli it is repeated to remember your soul first. As much as we paid attention to this and put into practice this first lesson to that extent we can grasp the meaning of Shiv Baba's Murli's. If we don't read/listen to Murli in soul consciousness it is just like reading a novel. We simply miss the real meaning.
I think i agree with what Nivi Bhen is saying here, in that the first lesson of soul consciousness is so vital in all of this. It is a lack of soul consciousness, that makes each of us interpret things in different ways, because Maya is always having some influence. What we see and witness with these criminal eyes, as Nivi Bhen so accurately put it, is not always to be relied on. Nor is what any sense is telling us to be relied on, because they also are tamopradhan.

As souls we all have opinions, but they are just that; Truth only comes from one source, and if we are not fully soul conscious(which we are not), we are not always going to be interpreting things accurately, no matter how right we think we are. Also, it should be noted, that the Shrimat that applies to one, does not always apply to another; circumstances play a large part in this. To look and compare yourself with another souls or souls, is gross body consciousness, and will only lead to problems... i know, i keep falling into this trap all of the time, and i haven't as yet, experienced the highest test, of the "true Yagya experience", where Maya can really tear you apart.

Roy

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Re: Controversy - let's live what we preach

Post by cal » 18 Mar 2011

arjun wrote:but can we really be soul conscious or united without realizing the truth?.
Without soul conscious state it is all Bhakti. We can repeat a Murli or quote a Murli, but then there is no difference between reading a scripture or a Murli.
To me soul conscious state and TRUTH go hand-in-hand.
Baba has said that "Beej badle gaa phir jhad badlega". First the seed has to change and that will transform the whole tree.

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Re: Controversy - let's live what we preach

Post by Sach_Khand » 18 Mar 2011

arjun wrote: But, given the continuous and very practical threat to his life from BKs, ...
I think such allegations should be made only if there is solid proof. There may be some people who are threat to Virendra Dev Dixit. But this cannot be the policy of BK organisation. If a foolish follower of Virendra Dev Dixit tries to do something wrong then too that cannot be considered as the poilcy of AIVV or Virendra Dev Dixit.
arjun wrote: And why are you singling out the Advanced Knowledge for this? This view about education has been since the days of Dada Lekhraj (Brahma Baba) and not a new idea.
It seems Arjun cannot answer anything related to AIVV or Virendra Dev Dixit without linking it with BK organisation.
Because there are many organisations sects which shun (modern) education. But linking only BK or Dada Lekharaj to answer the question raised by ANU is ridiculous. If the question is raised about BK organisation or Dada Lekharaj then it is O.K. But for proving Virendra Dev Dixit right is it necessary to refer Dada Lekharaj. Is Virendra Dev Dixit so much dependent on Dada Lekharaj?
arjun wrote: In case of Gulzar Dadi, she need many days rest after delivering every Avyakt Vani, ...
Again, the same thing. Why not just answer for Virendra Dev Dixit.
And Virendra Dev Dixit is considered to be ShivBaba by AIVV members. Is it that they have doubt about Virendra Dev Dixit and want to show that even ( assumed ) ShivBaba of BKs also needs rest? How foolish arguments!

:neutral:
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Re: Controversy - let's live what we preach

Post by Sach_Khand » 18 Mar 2011

ANU wrote: In classes which I meant, Baba was speaking about contemporary Bharat and he clearly reffered to contemporary life and social phenomena in modern Bharat. Of course, when some ambiguities arise, everything can be twisted and explaied that actually Baba meat something else. But for me this method remains rather crooked.
Dear ANU,
First of all let me clear to you that I am no more a follower of Virendra Dev Dixit. I myself differ with the teachings of AIVV.
I am not aswering keeping in mind the ambiguities arising in the teachings of AIVV. I am answering on my behalf only. I do not know to what talks of Virendra Dev Dixit you are referring. And what he meant.
I am writing what Bharat means to me. Actually Bharat has very different meaning based on grammar. Bha means Light. Rata means to be involved in or attracted by or in love with, something of that sort. Bharat according to my understanding stands for those or that which is attracted by or involved in or have Love for LIGHT.
Also Bharat is name given for piece of land on this earth. It is because that piece of land has stood for what the word "Bha-rat" means.
ANU wrote: The difference between science and Baba is such that science has theories and hypothesis and scientiests repeat that they do not know the truth but they strive to gather evidence and base theories on some evidence. Baba just shouts stataements and doesn't bother himself to bring about any evidence for what he states, despite the fact he says "No wise man will accept anything without evidence".
I am not writing on behalf of Virendra Dev Dixit as a PBK. I am not follower of Virendra Dev Dixit now.
No truely spiritual person forces scientists to accept what he/she says based on his/her experiences. Becuase he/she knows that such things cannot be proved on this physical plane.

Even scientist cannot show the electrons or protons to the naked eyes and are proved using theories and some indirect experiments.
ANU wrote: First we need to bring the evidence to the light and then only we can say that Bharat has a central role. So far, AIVV has not brought about any evidence. They state a lot, but bring not eveidence. They cannot even prove that Bharat has a longer history than China. If time is to reveal the truth, time should be praised.
It is evident that Bharat has played the central role in the past. English is International language because India accepted English as it's language practically for it's official work. Only because England occupied India could they rule world. And because of M.K. Gandhi the English had to back down and end their colonial rule in this world.
I religion, it is fact that Jesus had copme to this same Bharat from where he gained the spiritual knowledge. Even in the later part of his life he lived in Bharat (Kashmir) and there is tomb of Jesus in Kashmir. It is said that even Moses came to Kashmir and lived his last days there. Even it said that the tomb of Moses is present in Kashmir. In religion, in most of the fields of science, Bharat has lead the world. But the crooked people have twisted the history. But Truth cannot be covered forever. And the coming days will again prove the central role of Bharat.
ANU wrote: "Equal" and "same" have different meanings. I am not saying that men and women are the same. They are different and complementary. Yet being different does not mean that they should be unequal. Yes, on contrary, they should be equal and I want to see them equal, responsible for the self and INDEPENDENT.
Baba's teachings contains many parts showing women lower than men and makes them dependent from men. From the point of view of what he teaching this is quite obvious - he played the part of the first one who brought the sense of unequality between man and woman, dependency of women in the drama.
We see daily how women are made and used as an object in this so called modern world of equality.
What does equality mean? Can there be equality if there is no similarity in their capabilities and powers (physically, mentally, intellectually) ?

People have been misusing the world "equality" for their selfish motives and actually exploiting the same people whom they want to make equal with the other higher class of people.
And I do not want to continue this arguement. You are free to have your views.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: Controversy - let's live what we preach

Post by Sach_Khand » 18 Mar 2011

nivi wrote:Dear All Brothers,

It's high time we step up and realize what is really important to us.

Nivi
BETTER LATE THAN NEVER.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: Controversy - let's live what we preach

Post by arjun » 18 Mar 2011

sachkhand wrote:Again, the same thing. Why not just answer for Veerendra Dev Dixit.
And Veerendra Dev Dixit is considered to be ShivBaba by AIVV members. Is it that they have doubt about Veerendra Dev Dixit and want to show that even ( assumed ) ShivBaba of BKs also needs rest? How foolish arguments!
The above member is free to have his own views.

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