Sakar is inevitable for tranformation.

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Sach_Khand
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Re: Sakar is inevitable for tranformation.

Post by Sach_Khand » 01 Jun 2010

shivsena wrote: Dear Brother.
Very well expressed.
No, not at all well expressed and new knowledge has wrongly said. Actually we do not even need ShivBaba, The Supreme Soul after we get pure. So there is no question of Prajapita Brahma's inevitability.
But to get the inheritence from ShivBaba there is need of Sakar. Please read the Avayakt Vani point which clearly says that, "Paramaatma bhee Sakar manushya roop mein milne aata hain. Is phal mein sab phal aa jaate hai ." That means, all inheritence of Sangamyug comes in the fact that we meet Supreme Soul in human form. So it proves according to Avyakt Vani too that Sakar is inevitable.
shivsena wrote: I have never understood how we can become a-shariri and achieve karmatit stage(farishta stage) by remembering another physical body ie. Sakar(prajapita) when all avaykt Vanis direct us to have avaykt milan with BapDada in avaykt vatan. I think that purusharth of avaykt milan is for 108 king souls and Sakar milan is for 9,16,000 who do not have the capacity to understand avaykt Vanis. (that is why Vanis keep on saying that there are 2 types of children and two types of inheritance).
shivsena.
Nowhere in Murlis it is said to remember Prajapita. Your conclusion is totally wrong. You are misinterpretting Murlis.
But for The Supreme Soul Shiv to do His Divine work, He needs a corporeal Sakar form. That is what I am trying to say on the basis of Murlis and even Avyakt Vani points.
:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: Sakar is inevitable for tranformation.

Post by Sach_Khand » 01 Jun 2010

shivsena wrote: So how does the soul of DL become anadi prajapita, when he met his end in 1969 and takes another body, not yet identified.(according to you).
Please explain.
shivsena.
Please understand what I have written,
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1521&start=180#p33246
:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: Mama is daughter and not wife of Brahma or ShivBaba

Post by Sach_Khand » 01 Jun 2010

mbbhat wrote: Sometimes Baba says so. It is intoxication of ShivBaba, SAAGAR UCHAL MAARTAA HAI. So it is very difficult to understand some Murli points and also there is no need to go into depth of each and every point. Because there is no direction for the waves of ocean. So Baba can speak anything.

Just see-

SM 22-12-82(1):- Prajapita hai to zaroor unko dharm ke bachche honge. Mukhvamshavali Maatpita ke chahiye na. Mama KI BHI MUKHVAMSHAVALI KAHENGE. Baba KI BHI MUKHVAMSHAVALI KAHENGE. DAADE KI BHI MUKHVAMSHAVALI THAH_REY. Kukhvamshavali ka yahaan naam hee nahin. Ve Kaliyugi braahman hain kukh vamshavali. -135 [mv-kv, adoption, maatpita]
I do not accept your statement that Baba can speak anything.
Yes, it is true that children cannot understand it properly due to lack of clarity of their intellect. All points are correct. But it is said in Murlis that always say Baap-Dada says so, because even Dada speaks. So there is possibility that some points can be wrong due to Dada.
:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: Mama is daughter and not wife of Brahma or ShivBaba

Post by mbbhat » 02 Jun 2010

Sach_Khand wrote:I do not accept your statement that Baba can speak anything..
SM 19-6-72(2):- Abhi tum jaante ho hum chadh rahe hain. Phir utrenge. SECOND LAGTA HAI CHADHNE MAY. BHAL TUMKO CHADHNEY MAY 25- 30 VARSH LAGTE HAIN. PICHAADI AANEVAALE SECOND MAY CHADH SAKTE HAIN. Ablaavon maataavon par kitney atyaachaar hote hain. -197-

=You know that we are now climbing. Then we will descend. It takes a second to climb. Of course, it takes 25 to 30 yrs in climbing/rising for you. Those who come later can climb in a second. ...

See the three contradicting statments here.

Will you please explain how the last comers can rise in a second? [Does not Baba speak this to motivate children? Will you get answer to this by keeping churning just by dry intellect?

Murli point:- Baath ko math pakdo. bhaavnaa ko pakdo. = do not stck to words. stick to feelings.

When the Murli point itself says to stick to feelings, how much do we stick to feelings? Without that will the churning be useful?

Even in Bhaktimarg, people do churning on scriptures, but cannot understand. why?

Why children of just few days overtake those of 40 yrs old children?

Murli point:-
Baba deemaagraam nahin, Dilaaraam hai. So first have interest to reach dil(heart= mind) and the intellect. But what we do?

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Re: Sakar is inevitable for tranformation.

Post by shivsena » 02 Jun 2010

Sach_Khand wrote: Avyakt Vani Dt. 31.5.77:
"Sabse bade te bada Sangamyug ka phal hai, jo swayam Baap pratyaksh roop se milta hai. Paramaatma bhee Sakar manushya roop mein milne aata hain. Is phal mein sab phal aa jaate hai ."
Sanjeev.
So where is that Sakar manushya roop of paramatma ?????....was it late DL or is it Baba Dixit or is it someone who will be revealed as prajapita in the near future ( according to you) ????

shivsena.

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Re: Sakar is inevitable for tranformation.

Post by Sach_Khand » 03 Jun 2010

shivsena wrote: So where is that Sakar manushya roop of paramatma ?????....was it late DL or is it Baba Dixit or is it someone who will be revealed as prajapita in the near future ( according to you) ????
Someone who will be revealed as prajapita in the near future.
Murli Dt. 5.1.85:
"Brahma ka din aur Brhma kee raat kaha jaata hai. Brahma ka din so Vishnu ka. Vishnu ka so Brahma ka. Baat ek hee hai. Brahma ke bhee 84 janm, Vishnu ke bhee 84 janm. Is leap janm ka fark padta hai ."
:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: Mama is daughter and not wife of Brahma or ShivBaba

Post by Sach_Khand » 03 Jun 2010

mbbhat wrote: ... Ram does not have 4 Brothers.

In scriptures, it is shown as 3 Brothers to Ram and not 4. So is not there mistake? who said the above Murli point? Shiv or Brahma?
It does not mean the way you have interpretted. It means that there are no four brothers which includes every child or their parents. And this way of having 4-8 brothers is here not in Satyug.

I ask whether you have faith in GodFather? And is That GodFather a liar or The Only One Who tells Truth. If you beleive that GodFather is knowledgeful then what is the need for Him to lie?
I think that it is a fact that mistakes are there in Murlis. And hence it is categorically said that do not tell that ShivBaba says so. Always tell that Baap-Dada says so. And it is also said in Murlis that He i.e., ShivBaba is responsible for whatever happens by Dada. He is there to correct it.

Now, the main question that arises is how to distinguish between the wrong points and The Truth told by ShivBaba? When two Murli points contradict each other how to understand them? The possibility is that,
(1) Both are correct but we are not interpretting them rightly.
(2) One of them is wrong.

So which one is to be taken as the correct point? It is left to us. We need to keep on churning the Murli points with our mind and intellect open. It is the responsibility of ShivBaba to give us correct understanding. It is said in Murlis that GodFather gives His own introduction and also tells who is Prajapita. So till then let us keep on churning the Murli points and try to understand them in different perspectives. It is good for a student to think over any problem instead of directly going to the teacher and say that I do not understand the problem. Actually many times what happens is that the student does not even know what is he not understanding in that problem. So if we keep on churning the Murli points, we will know what we are not understanding and where we are doing mistakes. This makes us easy to understand when the actual Truth hidden in the Murlis is revealed.

Murli Dt. 3.1.85, Pg. 1:
" Sangamyug par tum nayee 2 batein sunate ho toh unka chintan chalna chahiye. Jisko vichaar saagar manthan kaha jata hai. ... Baap jo samjhate hain vah andar repeat hona chahiye ."
:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: Sakar is inevitable for tranformation.

Post by shivsena » 03 Jun 2010

Sach_Khand wrote: Someone who will be revealed as prajapita in the near future.
Sanjeev.
So how do you then remember ShivBaba if prajapita is yet to be revealed.

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Re: Mama is daughter and not wife of Brahma or ShivBaba

Post by mbbhat » 04 Jun 2010

Sach_Khand wrote:I ask whether you have faith in GodFather? And is That GodFather a liar or The Only One Who tells Truth. If you beleive that GodFather is knowledgeful then what is the need for Him to lie?
I do not have faith in godfather at all.
So till then let us keep on churning the Murli points and try to understand them in different perspectives.
Have I objected this?

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Re: Mama is daughter and not wife of Brahma or ShivBaba

Post by Sach_Khand » 05 Jun 2010

mbbhat wrote: I do not have faith in godfather at all.
Do you mean to say that you know Him completely.
Or do you mean you do not accept His existence?
:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: Sakar is inevitable for tranformation.

Post by Sach_Khand » 05 Jun 2010

shivsena wrote: So how do you then remember ShivBaba if prajapita is yet to be revealed.
What I do is I do purusharth of being soul conscious and understand myself (even as a body, physcial as well as subtle ones).
And I just remember Him as the One Who has control over all the universe and seek His help and directions. I have faith that he responds. Although I do not know, but still He is capable and can respond being Himself in whichever.

I have 100% guarantee that one fine day He will reveal Himself to me. And that itself gives me strength to do my purusharth and generates Love within me.

I would like to tell one incident. Few years back, I was very nervous and disappointed that why am I betrayed. Was it my foolishness to beleive in the spiriutal knowledge given by BKs (including PBKs) and accept Murlis as the words of ShivBaba, The GodFather? Then I consoled myself saying that I have done no wrong by beleiving. If someone has done wrong, then it is the one who has told lies. And one day it came to my mind that if I do not get answer today then I will stop churning this knowledge. And within minutes I got a letter. I do not know who had sent it (probably from Mumbai). There was a Avyakt Vani. I read it. I do not remember what was written in it now. But it made me to continue in my purusharth.
:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: Mama is daughter and not wife of Brahma or ShivBaba

Post by mbbhat » 05 Jun 2010

I just joked. It is left to you to judge whether I have faith in ShivBaba of BKWSU.

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Re: Sakar is inevitable for tranformation.

Post by shivsena » 06 Jun 2010

Sach_Khand wrote: What I do is I do purusharth of being soul conscious and understand myself (even as a body, physcial as well as subtle ones).
And I just remember Him as the One Who has control over all the universe and seek His help and directions. I have faith that he responds. Although I do not know, but still He is capable and can respond being Himself in whichever.
I have 100% guarantee that one fine day He will reveal Himself to me. And that itself gives me strength to do my purusharth and generates Love within me.
I appreciate your honest views and i wish you all the best in your endeavour to meet the supreme Father through prajapita brahma.
I would like to tell one incident. Few years back, I was very nervous and disappointed that why am I betrayed. Was it my foolishness to beleive in the spiriutal knowledge given by BKs (including PBKs) and accept Murlis as the words of ShivBaba, The GodFather? Then I consoled myself saying that I have done no wrong by beleiving. Sanjeev.
I share your views about being feeling betrayed by the bk and pbk interpretations of Murlis and Vanis(but as per drama they were also necessary as only after knowing untruth(poison) that you can know the nectar of truth)... i also do believe that only by reading the Murlis and Vanis and churning them deeply that one will know our true spiritual parents.....and no manushya deh-dhari guru from either of the Three Worlds can show you the path of liberation and salvation....each soul has to find his own way through the padayee of Murlis and Vanis. [Murli point: "sara madaar padayee par hai"]
shivsena.

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Re: Sakar is inevitable for tranformation.

Post by nivi » 06 Jun 2010

Dear Shivsena,

You often say Bk/Pbk's have betrayed you, but have you ever for once thought you have done the same to other bk/pbk's? You have played this blame game for too long, and never take your own responsibility.. You have invented your own Murli's, created so many doubts for yourself and others..You have defamed the greatest Father to mankind, and wonder if you treat your lokik parents the same way.. Your interpertations are so way off , and against what Baba's Murli is teaching us. Instead of listening to Murli in Soul-consious stage(our swa_dharm), you practise body-conciousness(deh_dharm)and teach others the same. Each and everday in Murli Baba says to see yourself as "Atma" and remeber your Father.

Nivi

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Re: Sakar is inevitable for tranformation.

Post by pbkindiana » 07 Jun 2010

shivsena wrote:
I share your views about being feeling betrayed by the BK and PBK interpretations of Murlis and Vanis(but as per drama they were also necessary as only after knowing untruth(poison) that you can know the nectar of truth
"Point a finger at others and three other fingers point back to you" --- i like this proverb and i learnt it fr you.

indie.

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