Sakar is inevitable for tranformation.

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Mama is daughter and not wife of Brahma or ShivBaba

Post by Sach_Khand » 25 May 2010

I have written some Murli points which according to my churning supports the subject of this post. I request all students of ShivBaba, The GodFather, [irrespective of their groups like BK, PBK, Vishnu Party, etc., as I do not beleive in these groupings of Godly students] to give their views and interpretations of the following Murli points if any.
Saraswati Mama is daughter and not wife of Brahma or ShivBaba.
Mela is of Brahamputra-saagar.
.

Murli Dt. 1.2.87:
Brahmaputra nadi hai badi jo kalkatte taraf saagar mein jaakar miltee hai. Aise toh Saraswati Ganga aadi bahut nadiyaan hain jo saagar mein miltee hai. Nadiyoon se phir talaav aadi bante hain. Toh bachhe jaanate hain yah jo kumbh ka mela kahate hain vah hai Brahmaputra nadi aur saagar ka mela. Unko hee sachha kumbh kaha jaata hai. Bade te badi Brahmaputa hai unka hee sangam hota hai. Yhaan bhee aisa hai, gyaan saagar toh ShivBaba hai. Yah Brahma bhee Gyan nadi thahari. Inka aur gyaan saagar ka mela hai. Inko hee sachha 2 kumbh kaha jaata hai. Sabse bada mela hai yah gyaan saagar ke paas aana. Yah Brahmaputra badi nadi hai. Pahale 2 yah niklee hai. Inka hai sangam, pichhadee mein jaakar miltee hai toh jaroor pahale unse niklee hai. Toh gyaan saagar se pahale yah Brahma phir Satyug mein pahale number mein bhee yah jaate hain. Saraswati aur brahma ka mela naheen hai. Brahmaputra aur saagar ka mela hai."

Murli Dt. 3.1.85, pg.2:
"Behad ke Baap ka gaayan bhee tum samajhate ho. Vah Gyan ka saagar hai, Patit-Pavan hai. Gita ka Bhagwan hai. ... ...Sanyasee toh hathyogi hai. Vah patitonko pavan banaa na sakein. Gyaan hai hee ek Baap ke paas. Gyaan se tum janm letey ho. Gita ko mai-baap kahaa jata hai. Maat-pita hai na. Tum ShivBaba ke bachhe ho phir maat-pita chahiye na. Manushya toh bhal gaate rahate hain, parantu samajh thode hee hain. Arth kuchh bhee naheen jaanate hain. Baap samjhaate hai iska arth kitna guhya hai. GodFather kaha jaata phir maat-pita kyon kahaa jata? Baba ne samjhaaya hai bhal Saraswati hai parantu vaastav mein sachhi 2 mother Brahmaputra hai. Brahmaputra Saraswati se bhee badi nadi hai. Is par hee sabse bada mela laganaa chahiye. Usko nadi saagar ka sangam kaha jata hai. Sangam toh hai na. Pahale 2 sangam inka hota hai. Baba inmein pravesh karte hain. Yah kitnee maheen batein hai. Bahutoon kee buddhi mein yah rahatee naheen hai jo chintan karein. Bilkul kam buddhi hai. Kam darja paane vale hai. Unhoon ke liye Baap phir bhee kahate hain apne ko aatma samjho."
:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Sakar is inevitable for tranformation.

Post by Sach_Khand » 25 May 2010

I have written some Murli points which according to my churning supports the subject of this post. I request all students of ShivBaba, The GodFather, [irrespective of their groups like BK, PBK, Vishnu Party, etc., as I do not believe in these groupings of Godly students] to give their views and interpretations of the following Murli points if any.
Sakar is inevitable for tranformation. .
Murli Dt. 5.7.92:
"Yahan aatein hee hai behad ke Baap ke paas. Jisase varsa lena hai. Sakar bigar toh varsa milna naheen hai. Baap kahate hai dehadhari ko Yaad mat karo."

Murli Dt. 1.1.87:
"Ishwar toh hai nirakaar. Unke saath love toh Sakar mein chahiye na. Nirakaar ko kaise love kar sakenge. Aatma shareer se alag ho jati hai toh love naheen hota. Jeevaatma aur Paramaatma jab Sakar mein milae toh love ho."

Murli Dt. 21.2.87:
"Arey ShivBaba agar na aave toh bhala ShivBaba ko Yaad kaise karenge, jo tumhare vikarm vinash hon. Unki Yaad bigar toh vikarm vinaash ho naa sakein. Sajaaein bahut khaani padegee. Baki pai paise ka pad milega."

Murli Dt. 10.2.87:
"Toh tumhaara paarlokik ParamPita Pamaatma se kya sambandh hai? Number one baat hai yah. Pahale yah Baap ka sambandh nikalo toh Maa ka aur varse ka sambandh nikalega. Ek Alaf ko bhoolne se hee sab kuch bhoole hai. Nidhan ke ho gaaye hain. Ravan ne pahale 2 alaf ko he bhulaay hai. Phir Alaf ki madad se Ravan par jeet paate hain. Alaf ko koee na jaane toh naastik hua. ... ...Pradarshini mein mukhya baat hai Baap kee. Alaf ke baad hee bae tae aata hai. Alaf ko naheen samjha toh kuchh naheen samjhenge. Kitnaa bhee bhal maatha marein. ParaamPita hai toh pita se varsa milta hai. Parantu Alaf ko na samjha toh kitna bhee samjhao, samjhenge naheen. Baba ka parichay mila toh varse ke haqdaar ban hee jaate hain."

Murli Dt. 1.4.85, pg. 3:
"Baap khud batate hain maine kaha tha main sadharan boodhe tan mein aata hoon. Aakar tumko padhata hoon. Yah bhee sunte hain, attention toh hamaare oopar hai. Yah bhee student hai. Yah apne ko aur kuchh naheen kahate. Prajapita so bhee student hai. Bhal isne vinaash bhee dekha parantu samjhaa kuchh bhee naheen. Aahiste aahiste samajhte gaye. Jaise tum saamajhte jaate ho. Baap tumko samjhaate hai. Beech main yah bhee samajhte jaate hain. Padhte rahate hain."

Murli Dt. 22.2.97, pg. 2 (M.Khand1- 292):
"Bap kee biography Baap se hee janee jatee hai. Ab nirakar kee biography kaise ho saktee hai? Jaroor jab Sakar mein aaye tab biography ho. Sirf aatma kee biography naheen ho saktee hai. Jeevaatma banein tab punarjanm mein aawe aur biography bhee ho."

Murli Dt. 2.5.85, pg. 2:
"Yaad mein rahane se hee kalyaan hoga. Baki jaasti samjhaane se kalyaan naheen hoga. Samajhtaey kuchh naheen hai. Alaf bigar kaam kaise chalega. Ek Alaf ka pataa naheen bakee toh bindi 2 ho jatee. Alaf ke saath bindi dene se faayda hota hai."
:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: Sakar is inevitable for tranformation.

Post by shivsena » 25 May 2010

Sach_Khand wrote: Alaf bigar kaam kaise chalega. Ek Alaf ka pataa naheen bakee toh bindi 2 ho jatee. Alaf ke saath bindi dene se faayda hota hai."
Sanjeev.
So who is this ALAF, jiske saath bindi shiv hamesha hai hi.

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Re: Sakar is inevitable for tranformation.

Post by mbbhat » 26 May 2010

Definitely Sakar(corporeal) is needed. Sakar is like plate and food is niraakaar(incorporeal). We need plate to hold food. so body is definitely needed. But one should eat(think) incorporeal(food) and not the plate.

So one should respect plate(Sakar), but love/remember only niraakar(food).

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Re: Mama is daughter and not wife of Brahma or ShivBaba

Post by mbbhat » 26 May 2010

Yes. I also believe same. Because God needs just one body. So in whom God comes is mother and God himself is the Father, rest all are children of both shiv and Brahma.

Male children are sons(braahman) and female children are daughters(braahmani)

There cannot be couples in Sakar during Confluence Age. Because Baba has said- those whose efforts are equal become couple in Golden Age. That is number one and two will become couple there. The result will be declared in the end. So there is no question of wife of Sakar personality here.

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Re: Sakar is inevitable for tranformation.

Post by Sach_Khand » 26 May 2010

shivsena wrote: So who is this ALAF, jiske saath bindi Shiv hamesha hai hi.
Murli Dt. 27.4.2001, pg. 1 (M-Khand1- 185):
"Inka asul naam Lakheeraj tha, phir inka naam rakha Brahma. ShivBaba ne ismein pravesh kiya aur Radhe ko apna banaaya, naam rakha Saraswati. Saraswatika Brahma koee lokik baap naheen thaharaa. In dono ke lokik baap apne-apne thaey. Abhee vah naheen hain. Yah ShivBaba ne Brahma dwara adopt kiya hai. Tum ho adopted children. Brahma bhee ShivBaba ka Bachha hai. Brahma ke mukh kamal se rachate hain isliye Brahma ko bhee maata kaha jata hai. Tum maat-pita hum baalak tere, tumhaari krupa se sukh ghanere.. gaate hain na. Tum brahman aakar balak bane ho. Ismein samajhne kee buddhi achchhee chahiye. Tum bachhe ShivBaba se varsa letaey ho. Brahma koi swarg ka rachaita va gyaan saagar naheen hai. Gyaan ka saagar ek hee Baap hai. Aatma ka Baap hee Gyaan ka saagar hai. Aatma bhee gyaan saagar banatee hai parantu inko gyaan saagar naheen kahenge kyonki saagar ek hee hai. Tum sab nadiyaan ho. Saagar ko apnaa shareer naheen hai. Nadiyoon ko hai. Tum ho gyaan nadiyaan. Kalkatte mein Brahmaputra nadi bahut badee hai kyonki unka saagar se connection hai. Unka mela bahut badaa lagta hai. Yahaan bhee mela lagta hai. Saagar aur Brahmaputra combined hain. Yah hai chaitanya Vah hai jad. Yah batein Baap samjhate hain. Shastron mein naheen hain. Shastra hai Bhakti marg kee department. Yah haigyaan marg, vah hai Bhakti marg."
:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: Sakar is inevitable for tranformation.

Post by shivsena » 26 May 2010

Dear sanjeev Bhai.

Please answer to the point.

Are ALAF and prajapita brahma same !!!!!

shivsena.

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Re: Sakar is inevitable for tranformation.

Post by new knowledge » 26 May 2010

Dear brother sanjeev, to prove the inevitability of Sakar, you have quoted only Murli points and not a single Avyakt Vani point. i agree with shivsenabhai that the Avyakt Vani does not support inevitability of Sakar at each and every step of purusharth. Sakar is essential as a jumping board for a purusharthi, but after having high jump from the ocean of Maya, the inevitability of Sakar decreases as he acheaves more and more Avyakt stage and finally, there is no any necessity of Sakar at the last step of purusharth when a soul reaches Paramdham to enjoy the frouts of spiritual study i.e., purusharth.

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Re: Sakar is inevitable for tranformation.

Post by shivsena » 27 May 2010

new knowledge wrote: that the Avyakt Vani does not support inevitability of Sakar at each and every step of purusharth. Sakar is essential as a jumping board for a purusharthi, but after having high jump from the ocean of Maya, the inevitability of Sakar decreases as he acheaves more and more Avyakt stage and finally, there is no any necessity of Sakar at the last step of purusharth when a soul reaches Paramdham to enjoy the frouts of spiritual study i.e., purusharth.
Dear brother.
Very well expressed.

I have never understood how we can become a-shariri and achieve karmatit stage(farishta stage) by remembering another physical body ie. Sakar(prajapita) when all avaykt Vanis direct us to have avaykt milan with BapDada in avaykt vatan. I think that purusharth of avaykt milan is for 108 king souls and Sakar milan is for 9,16,000 who do not have the capacity to understand avaykt Vanis. (that is why Vanis keep on saying that there are 2 types of children and two types of inheritance).

shivsena.

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Re: Mama is daughter and not wife of Brahma or ShivBaba

Post by Sach_Khand » 31 May 2010

mbbhat wrote:Yes. I also believe same. Because God needs just one body. So in whom God comes is mother and God himself is the Father, rest all are children of both Shiv and Brahma.
Male children are sons(braahman) and female children are daughters(braahmani)
There cannot be couples in Sakar during Confluence Age. Because Baba has said- those whose efforts are equal become couple in Golden Age. That is number one and two will become couple there. The result will be declared in the end. So there is no question of wife of Sakar personality here.
Murli Dt. 19.10.78:
"Great 2 GrandFather yah title ho gaya Prajapita Brahma ka Jaroor Grand Mother Grand children bhee honge ."
:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: Sakar is inevitable for tranformation.

Post by Sach_Khand » 31 May 2010

shivsena wrote:Dear sanjeev Bhai.
Please answer to the point.
Are ALAF and prajapita Brahma same !!!!!
shivsena.
Yes, the same soul i.e., Dada Lekharaj's soul.
:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: Sakar is inevitable for tranformation.

Post by shivsena » 31 May 2010

Sach_Khand wrote: Yes, the same soul i.e., Dada Lekharaj's soul.
Sanjeev.
So how does the soul of DL become anadi prajapita, when he met his end in 1969 and takes another body, not yet identified.(according to you).
Please explain.

shivsena.

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Re: Mama is daughter and not wife of Brahma or ShivBaba

Post by mbbhat » 01 Jun 2010

Sach_Khand wrote:"Great 2 GrandFather yah title ho gaya Prajapita Brahma ka Jaroor Grand Mother Grand children bhee honge ."
Sometimes Baba says so. It is intoxication of ShivBaba, SAAGAR UCHAL MAARTAA HAI. So it is very difficult to understand some Murli points and also there is no need to go into depth of each and every point. Because there is no direction for the waves of ocean. So Baba can speak anything.

Just see-

SM 22-12-82(1):- Prajapita hai to zaroor unko dharm ke bachche honge. Mukhvamshavali Maatpita ke chahiye na. Mama KI BHI MUKHVAMSHAVALI KAHENGE. BABA KI BHI MUKHVAMSHAVALI KAHENGE. DAADE KI BHI MUKHVAMSHAVALI THAH_REY. Kukhvamshavali ka yahaan naam hee nahin. Ve Kaliyugi braahman hain kukh vamshavali. -135 [mv-kv, adoption, maatpita]

So are there three mukh vamshavalis in practical? Which are the three faces here?

So- what I mean is- sometimes Baba says so. So even in your Murli point- I believe Mama is the grandmother. Of course, if you take just theoretical/phycical aspect, Mama is daughter of Brahma.

But practically since her act is equal to Brahma = grandfather she can also be called as Grandmother.

Like children love their grandfather and mother, BKs love Mama and Baba. So BKs are grand children.

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Re: Sakar is inevitable for tranformation.

Post by mbbhat » 01 Jun 2010

shivsena wrote:So how does the soul of DL become anadi prajapita, when he met his end in 1969 and takes another body, not yet identified.
Soul is anaadi. It is eternal!

The only thing is- people in corporeal world should believe/realize that Prajapita is also a soul that does role like we human beings in this anaadi world drama.

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Re: Sakar is inevitable for tranformation.

Post by Sach_Khand » 01 Jun 2010

new knowledge wrote:Dear Brother sanjeev, to prove the inevitability of Sakar, you have quoted only Murli points and not a single Avyakt Vani point. i agree with shivsenabhai that the Avyakt Vani does not support inevitability of Sakar at each and every step of purusharth. Sakar is essential as a jumping board for a purusharthi, but after having high jump from the ocean of Maya, the inevitability of Sakar decreases as he acheaves more and more Avyakt stage and finally, there is no any necessity of Sakar at the last step of purusharth when a soul reaches Paramdham to enjoy the frouts of spiritual study i.e., purusharth.
Avyakt Vani Dt. 31.5.77:
"Sabse bade te bada Sangamyug ka phal hai, jo swayam Baap pratyaksh roop se milta hai. Paramaatma bhee Sakar manushya roop mein milne aata hain. Is phal mein sab phal aa jaate hai ."

Avyakt Vani Dt. 28.12.78:
" Jo dekhe, jo sampark mein aakar ke sune unhoon dwaara yah aawaz nikale ki Baap aa gaye hain. Direct Almighty Authority ka kartavya chal raha hai. Antim powerfull bomb Paramaatma pratyakshata, abhee shuru naheen kee hai ... sikhalane vala direct Almighty Authority hain. Gyaan Soorya Sakar srushti par uday hua hai. Yah abhee gupt hain. ... Is antim bomb dwara harek ke beech Baap pratyaksha hoga. Vishwa mein VishwaPita spashta dikhaee dega."
:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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