Queries by brother satyaprakash.

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Re: Queries by Brother satyaprakash.

Post by satyaprakash » 06 Oct 2010

nivi wrote:until this part is understood and experienced everything else will sound like a big story or Katha that we are so familiar with on the path of Bhakti.
For BK/PBKs all hinduism is only Bhakti stories. But actually in every scripture only 10% is story and 90% is philosophy. Even in Bagavatam only one chapter, no.10 explains Krishna leela and all other 90% is philosophy only.
But if you ask any PBK as to their teachings, they will tell you the story of 1250 years per yuga, end of world, how they alone will survive, how this Dixit Baba will become some god, how they are better than BKs etc. If you press then further they will say you have to take bath after going to latrine, should not eat outside etc. Their philosophy does not seem to exist- and they call others as Bhathi fellows.
nivi wrote:We can experience swarg/heavan only when we remain in soul-conscious stage. When we are in soul-conscious stage we are naturally in sat-yug, since we are experiencing what is the truth.
Nivi expresses some nice quotes. I appreciate Nivi for it. They almost sound like proper Hindu philosophy.Hope more PBKs will learn something from her and stop their folly of going behing Baba Dixit's stories.
Satya

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Re: Queries by Brother satyaprakash.

Post by satyaprakash » 06 Oct 2010

nivi wrote: I repeat again that God's Murli can only be understood when we listen to it
Why do you call it God's Murli. Is it an unproven and open question. Does any such oracle based stuff become Gods word? It has no deep philosophy to be even a good spiritual book. Forget about Gods Murli. The same Murli is rewritten by Dixit. Now who is God and who's word is it?

Satya

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Re: Queries by Brother satyaprakash.

Post by arjun » 06 Oct 2010

Satya, I would once again say that you are free to criticize anyone in any manner that you deem fit. But your criticism does not inspire me to leave the PBK path or to pay you (and sachkhand) back in the same coin. So, keep trying.

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Re: Queries by Brother satyaprakash.

Post by nivi » 06 Oct 2010

Satya,

People realize God in their own way, for example Bhakti and Knowledge are some of the popular ways. I personally don't think one is superior to other since each is on its own. Bhakti involves opening up the heart, and a complete surrender to God so heart must be pure to follow this path. There are some who are more into knowledge, understanding, and logic etc. and like to verify and study philosophy and follow the Gyani path.

In regards to Pbk ---I have been raised in a culture where we show much respect to parents and elders. In fact we never even call our elders by name, instead with relationship they serve us. In the case of many Pbk's, Baba is seen as a Father figure both spiritual and also a worldly Father. I personally got much love like a parent from Baba. He always seem very compassionate, loving and caring towards me. I suppose it is matter of personal relationship with him in how we view him.

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Re: Queries by Brother satyaprakash.

Post by satyaprakash » 07 Oct 2010

nivi wrote:People realize God in their own way, for example Bhakti and Knowledge are some of the popular ways. I personally don't think one is superior to other since each is on its own. Bhakti involves opening up the heart, and a complete surrender to God so heart must be pure to follow this path. There are some who are more into knowledge, understanding, and logic etc. and like to verify and study philosophy and follow the Gyani path.
No dispute here. Hope this openness spreads to more people.
nivi wrote:In regards to PBK ---I have been raised in a culture where we show much respect to parents and elders. In fact we never even call our elders by name, instead with relationship they serve us. In the case of many PBK's, Baba is seen as a Father figure both spiritual and also a worldly Father. I personally got much love like a parent from Baba. He always seem very compassionate, loving and caring towards me. I suppose it is matter of personal relationship with him in how we view him.
Here again I cannot find anything wrong. I had or have nothing personal on the Dixit Baba.
My regret is many innocent people are misled by a philosophy which has no basis and freely delivered in PBK or BK centres. This is doing great harm to them and their families.
arjun wrote:But your criticism does not inspire me to leave the PBK path or to pay you (and sachkhand) back in the same coin. So, keep trying.
Why do you think that you alone are involved? No one can change some one without themselves doing it. If all this postings can help someone to study more and start thinking for themselves, then the pupose is served. Rest will happen automatically.
Satya.

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Re: Queries by Brother satyaprakash.

Post by Sach_Khand » 07 Oct 2010

satyaprakash wrote: He know only Hindi and he claims that Siva will understand only Hindi!
Satya
Virendra Dev Dixit knows English and I think he knows it very well. I have seen him suggesting words, probably for translating some Hindi word.
And moreever just knowing English does not make anyone a wise man. How many languages did Kabir know? And our present scholars are doing Ph. D. on his dohaas. And God knows how much they have understood and interpretted dohaas correctly.
Shiva might probably know even Sanskrit or German or Chinese or Japanese or even Urdu or Arabic. That does not mean that Shiv should start speaking in all languages or anyone who understands Shiv and His knowledge should start speaking in all the languages of this world.

Dear Satya Prakash, if you have no faith whatsoever in the BK knowledge, then why bother BKs or so called PBKs. If you have faith in Bhaktimarg scriptures only, then you are free to follow them.

You have written about RamKrishna Paramhansa and Vivekananda. How much did the so called Hindus cared about Vivekananda. Even after he got name and fame after chicago religious meet, he was humiliated because he was not from the so called priestly caste and therefore had no right to give discourses on religious matters.

Will the all so called Hindus accept RamKrishna Paramhansa as the birth of Shri Chaitanya MahaPrabhu? Ask the ISCKON people whether they accept RamKrishna Parmahansa as the reincarnation of Chaitanya MahaPrabhu. But remember, Chaitanya MahaPrabhu is considered as the reincarnation of The God of BhagwadGita, populalry known as Krishna.

:neutral:
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Re: Queries by Brother satyaprakash.

Post by arjun » 07 Oct 2010

satyaprakash wrote:My regret is many innocent people are misled by a philosophy which has no basis and freely delivered in PBK or BK centres. This is doing great harm to them and their families.
It is good that you are worried about the families who are following the BK or PBK knowledge. But do you similarly care for the millions of families of Hindus whose life has been ruined because of Hindu philosophy which has been misinterpreted to give rise to the unholy caste system that gives more importance to the family of birth rather than the qualities of a person.

The other day I read a disgraceful news report about how a woman was ill-treated and ex-communicated from a village just because she belonged to a lower caste among Hindus and had fed her left-over food to the dog of a higher caste Hindu. Well, both are Hindus, both are children of the same God, but one child considers the other child worse than a dog. Is this the philosophy of Hinduism that you want to defend and prove to be better than the BK/PBK philosophy?

Take another example of Kumbh Mela. Until and unless the so-called representatives of Hindu religion do not bathe in the Ganges at the auspicious moment, no other Hindu can step into it. Is this the philosophy that you want to defend? And does bathing in water cleanse someone of sins?

Take the example of a pig. Every Hindu believes that God exists in everyone, but whenever they see a pig near their house they chase it away by hitting it with stones. Is this how you treat your God? Lower caste Hindus were not allowed to enter Hindu temples for thousands of years. And they are not allowed in some temples even today. Is this the real Hinduism that you want to defend?

Who is causing more harm to the world? Is it the so-called Hindu scriptures written by human gurus (which encourage above acts) or is it the real Gita (Murlis) that God Shiv is now narrating to the BKs/PBKs?

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Re: Queries by Brother satyaprakash.

Post by satyaprakash » 08 Oct 2010

arjun wrote:real Gita (Murlis) that God Shiv is now narrating to the BKs/PBKs?
How do you say it is real Gita and this is real Siva? Is it not a conclusion by cult members? Who else is agreeing with you? Just because some one declares he is siva or some supporter says so, does it bocome the truth.
arjun wrote:millions of families of Hindus whose life has been ruined because of Hindu philosophy which has been misinterpreted to give rise to the unholy caste system that gives more importance to the family of birth rather than the qualities of a person.
Please understand the difference between Philosophy and practice. See a dictionary if required. Certain practices of Hindu people may not be acceptable to today's pseudo intellectuals. Some deterioration may require restoration. But it does not mean that we have to accept some new Baba as the new Siva?
Can you cut out the stories and predictions and practices of PBK and explain what is their philosophy? Do they have any?
arjun wrote: Take the example of a pig.
Such stories are for ignorant people to fool them.
Satya.

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Re: Queries by Brother satyaprakash.

Post by satyaprakash » 08 Oct 2010

Sach_Khand wrote:Shiv should start speaking
Why should Siva speak, that too in Hindi? Is he not God? Just because some one is claiming that Siva is speaking through some body else- do you simply believe it?
If you go the mental hospital, many patients will be claiming that they are Manmohan Singh, Indira Gandhi etc.Some others around them will support them also.
We can agree if you say that a person is very gentle, loving and good. Even we can agree if some one is called a saintly person. But what is this Siva is speaking stuff?
Satya.

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Re: Queries by Brother satyaprakash.

Post by arjun » 08 Oct 2010

Please understand the difference between Philosophy and practice. See a dictionary if required. Certain practices of Hindu people may not be acceptable to today's pseudo intellectuals. Some deterioration may require restoration. But it does not mean that we have to accept some new Baba as the new Siva?
I think you are trying to avoid answering my questions. That's OK.
If you go the mental hospital, many patients will be claiming that they are Manmohan Singh, Indira Gandhi etc.Some others around them will support them also.
By this comparison, all the so-called modern day Hindu sages and saints should also be termed mental patients. They are worse than Baba Dixit because they allow their disciples to worship them like Gods. There is no rationale in your comparison.

There are thousands of Hindu sages and saints who don't do any service to the humanity except worshipping non-living idols and looting money from gullible public in the name of God. In case of PBKs we are not worshipping anyone nor seeking any money for advertisement.

And it is not just 'some deterioration' but 'almost total deterioration' which afflicts Hinduism and many other religions which God has come to reform.

OGS
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Re: Queries by Brother satyaprakash.

Post by Sach_Khand » 08 Oct 2010

satyaprakash wrote: Why should Siva speak, that too in Hindi? Is he not God? Just because some one is claiming that Siva is speaking through some body else- do you simply believe it?
If you go the mental hospital, many patients will be claiming that they are Manmohan Singh, Indira Gandhi etc.Some others around them will support them also.
We can agree if you say that a person is very gentle, loving and good. Even we can agree if some one is called a saintly person. But what is this Siva is speaking stuff?
Satya.
Do you mean to say that Shiv never speaks? Then why is it written in the Hindu scriptures that Shiv gave knowledge to Parvati on the Kailash temple?

Regarding language.
why are you writing in English here? Suppose you start writing in Hindi, then too I can question you, why are you writing in Hindi here. There is no end to such foolish questions.

Yes there might be many in the mental hospital who even call themselves as God. But they just say and do not bring any change in anyone following such people. Possibility is that the persons following such people too wil get admitted to the same hospital.
Why go to mental hospitals. We can find many in the open in this so called Hindus, who claim to be God, although indirectly. They say that "I am God" and you too are God, God is omnipresent. Now this is the philosophy of Hindus. And in the same Hindu philosophy, some oppose such statements and are arguing with them since many centuries. But these people have not still come to any conclusion.

What is this Satya writing stuff? Are you Truth?
Anyway, Shiva speaking is not stuff, but has solid Truth in it. If you cannot understand it, then please follow your own path of any religion you appreciate.
All those westerners who got visions of Brahma Baba just within the previous couple of decades are not insane people. Please stop thinking yourself to be omniscient. Try to understand what someone want to say, and question if you are not understanding something. But your stubborn approach is not at all useful to you.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: Queries by Brother satyaprakash.

Post by satyaprakash » 10 Oct 2010

arjun wrote:saints who don't do any service to the humanity except worshipping non-living idols
What is the service done by BK/PBK. Is dishing out false concepts, travelling everywhere by air and fooling people, a service?
As far as I can see, wherever this Baba has gone he has spread 3 items:
1. Vyadhi- disease- mental and physical
2.Daridrata- Poverty and economic difficulties
3. Klesha- Misery- mostly mental

You can easily verify this by looking at large number of his followers. What they were earlier and what they are now. You may claim that they got peace etc but it is not true as I have personally seen many families ruined by this negative philosophy.
Regarding 'non living idols'- no one claims that idols live- they are not idols after the relevant god is made to be present in them. Hindus worship the God in them and not idols. They do not worship, the same idols if they are kept in a museum.
arjun wrote:PBKs we are not worshipping anyone nor seeking any money for advertisement
Where does the money come from? Don't you say that voluntarily people can pay anything they want and tell them that it is very good to contribute for the Yagya? Are others taking money by force?
arjun wrote:fflicts Hinduism and many other religions which God has come to reform
So this is the GOD and he has come to reform everyone! He studies intermediate and claims that he has done Phd! When a person does not even have basic integrity and honesty, how does he become GOD? He is not even a good human being. Forget about he being any GOD.
Satya

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Re: Queries by Brother satyaprakash.

Post by satyaprakash » 10 Oct 2010

Sach_Khand wrote:Shiva speaking is not stuff, but has solid Truth in it
It is neither solid nor liquid. It is onlystinking gas!
Sach_Khand wrote: And in the same Hindu philosophy, some oppose such statements and are arguing with them since many centuries. But these people have not still come to any conclusion.
Hinduism is not a narrow cult. It caters to all persons at all times. Hence theres is variety in it. Different oersons can choose different paths.
Sach_Khand wrote:written in the Hindu scriptures
How many scriptures have you read and understood? Why do you talk like a learned person. Why don't you read something before making big statements?
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Re: Queries by Brother satyaprakash.

Post by Sach_Khand » 10 Oct 2010

satyaprakash wrote: It is neither solid nor liquid. It is onlystinking gas!
You have rightly written your experience. Better take some gasex to release your stinking gas, so that something useful can take it's place.
satyaprakash wrote: Hinduism is not a narrow cult. It caters to all persons at all times. Hence theres is variety in it. Different oersons can choose different paths.
But it cannot digest what is said by BKs.
When you say that you are not narrow minded then why are you meddling with BKs? What problem do you have? Is it that same stinking gas in you again?
satyaprakash wrote: How many scriptures have you read and understood? Why do you talk like a learned person. Why don't you read something before making big statements?
Satya
How much did Kabir read? How much had RamKrishna Paramhansa read?
" Pothi padh padh jag mua Pundit bhaya na koi, dhai akshar Prem ka Padhe so Pundit hoi. "

The problem with some people is that they cannot totally be student of spirituality and not even want to be totally dedicated to social cause. Such people speak of spirituality and religion and change the topic and come to social cause. They will neither support whole heartedly to spiritual people and not even the people struggling for social cause. And always seek their selfish motives in the name of religions and dry philosophy.
The so called Pun-dits.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: Queries by Brother satyaprakash.

Post by arjun » 10 Oct 2010

satyaprakash wrote:Is dishing out false concepts, travelling everywhere by air and fooling people, a service?
If you see the list of all the places that Baba has travelled in the past several years, you will find that many of these places are not even connected by rail, leave alone by air. For so many years he had been travelling continuously by road or rail and sometimes by air. And even when he travels by air, the tickets are booked many months in advance to avail the maximum possible discount and he travels only by economy class. If someone travels by air to save time why are you so upset? He is in demand wherever there are PBKs all over India. So, if he travels by air between metropolitan cities to save time, what is the harm?
As far as I can see, wherever this Baba has gone he has spread 3 items:
1. Vyadhi- disease- mental and physical
2.Daridrata- Poverty and economic difficulties
3. Klesha- Misery- mostly mental
This is your personal view. And if it is really true, all those PBKs who are experiencing such misery are absolutely free to leave this path at any time. Nobody has forced them. Just because hardly anyone is leaving AIVV, you are reacting like this. This has happened with every religious Father. So, it is hardly a surprise if people like you react this way when the Supreme Father comes.
Regarding 'non living idols'- no one claims that idols live- they are not idols after the relevant god is made to be present in them. Hindus worship the God in them and not idols. They do not worship, the same idols if they are kept in a museum.
We have no objection to people worshipping non-living idols as God, but when millions of Hindus are starving and suffering from diseases, why should their extra-privileged bretheren spend exorbitant amounts on building temples worth billions of rupees and idols made up of gold and diamond? I read in a newspaper this year that during Ganesh puja some students from Gujarat made a silvre Ganesh idol weighing several kilograms and worth lakhs of rupees only to be drowned in the sea. Does this worship cause any benefit to anyone? An idol made of clay or stone should in no way be less capable in helping someone to connect with God. So, why spend such huge amounts on showing-off one's devotion to God?

PBKs don't do social service, but the simple lifestyle that they lead saves a lot of money that they use for the spiritual service of the mankind. They are saved from many of the vices and bad habits that people of the world in general are afflicted with.
So this is the GOD and he has come to reform everyone! He studies intermediate and claims that he has done Phd! When a person does not even have basic integrity and honesty, how does he become GOD? He is not even a good human being. Forget about he being any GOD.
And what about the biggest lies that Hindus have been propagating since hundreds of years like God is omnipresent, Ravana had ten heads, Sun, Moon and all the planets are Gods, rivers are purifiers of sins, the caste system, etc. etc. Is there any proof for all that? When you cannot provide proofs for all these lies, you have no right to point fingers at someone else who has answered your questions to the maximum extent. A person is not gauged by his education but by his actions and speech.

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