Flaws in PBK Philosophy

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mbbhat
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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 18 Jun 2017

Baba has said he enters children to do service. He is not ekvyapi in that sense.
416) Out of context. The point was referring to the official entrance (openly/clearly declare in whom God has entered). You may read the post properly.

Rest everything is again out of context.

If PBKs are interested in unofficial entrances too- then their claim of ekavyaapi concept fails even more! :laugh:
Regarding remembrance it is said that those who remember up above are Shudra community, ...
417) Sorry. It is again TOTAL & COMPLETE IGNORANCE of the BLIND PBKs -
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1991&hilit=clearest

In both of these, the PBK argument like saying- MY cock has three legs is clearly visible. What else to say? :sad:

sita
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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 18 Jun 2017

To Remember ‘UP ABOVE’ – in the REAL Supreme Abode (‘Paramdham’), or the TRUE Soul World - with FULL, COMPLETE & UNADULTERATED Introduction,
Please, explain what is this full, complete and unadulterated introduction of the supreme Father in the real Paramdham. How do you remember a point of light in Paramdham when you don't know which point is which. Introduction of the Father refers to the name, time, place, acts and form and all of these refer to the corporeal world. There is no name in Supreme abode, because there is no thinking there, there is no language, there is no time there, there is no place, can you give the coordinates of a soul in Paramdham, there are no acts there and there is no form. Form refers to the corporeal form through which the Supreme Soul is revealed. Without a body the Supreme Soul cannot act. His introduction is connected with his 3 acts and 3 murtis. If you speak about complete introduction you have to introduce also Shankar. And there is no use in entering this meaningless debate that Shankar is subtle so Shiv works though him in the Subtle Region, because the Supreme Soul does not come in the Subtle Region, but comes in a corporeal personality.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 19 Jun 2017

# Flaw No. 551) Do PBKs have replies to what they demand from others?
sita wrote:How do you remember a point of light in Paramdham when you don't know which point is which.
418) How do PBKs remember ShivBaba in body of Mr. Dixit? How do they DIFFERENTIATE the three points - Shiv, Dixit and B baba in his body?

---When God enters into Kamala Devi, how do they remember during that period?

419) Can PBKs locate the EXACT location of the point in his body (how much in depth, how much towards left and right? And, can they locate EXACT distance between the two/three Points in body of Mr. Dixit?
---IF NOT, how can it be said that they have FULL INTRODUCTION of God?

420) If we follow the PBK concept of full introduction, then it becomes a necessity to know and remember mass/weight, color, age of body of Mr. Dixit too, during their remembrance, is it not?
[BTW- PBKs do not know the EXACT date of birth of Mr. Virendra Dev Dixit or Sevakram. And- there is ABSOLUTELY NO INFORMATION about the date of birth of the PBk sisters too. So- when PBKs have absolutely no introduction of any of their personalities, what value can be given to their theory?]

421) When PBKs have not seen heaven, how can they think of heaven IN ACCURATE MANNER?

422) As body of Dixit is ageing, do the body visualization of PBKs about their Chariot also gradually change, accordingly???
sita wrote:Introduction of the Father refers to the name, time, place, acts and form and all of these refer to the corporeal world.
422) Baba says- "Think of your 84 births".
Does every PBk know his 84 births? At least of Dixit? If not, HOW and WHAT can/do they remember?

423) Do PBKs know the size/dimension of the point soul? If they do not know, how accurate their remembrance could be? (as per their own above claim/view)
If you speak about complete introduction you have to introduce also Shankar.
424) As already proved, PBKs have not been able to prove EVEN A LITTLE BIT that Mr. Dixit is Shankar.
To whom and what are PBKs trying to teach?

*425) BK philosophy or Murli is not rigid like PBKs.
BKs just visualize any two points in Paramdham and consider one as himself/herself and the other as God. That is enough. God is DilaaRaam, not DeemaagRaam. One may remember more points as well, as a feeling of mala/rosary.

426) PBKs act as if their deemaag(intellect) is high, but they fail to explain what they themselves claim to be necessary!

So- dear PBKs,
A kind suggestion is- First what you expect/question to others, kindly check yourself whether you have reply to YOUR OWN questions. Else, it will be like spitting towards sky.
Please, explain what is this full, complete and unadulterated introduction of the supreme Father in the real Paramdham.
427) Baba says- remember me and the time cycle. But, Baba also says- once you understand the knowledge, there is no need to go into vistaar/gross. Concentrate on SAAR/ESSENCE.

428) Eternal role of 500 yrs is ALREADY PREFIXED IN EVERY SOUL including SS Shiv. So- by DEFAULT itself, every soul has its role in it, whether it is in Paramdham or in the corporeal world**.

----If nothing is there in Paramdham, how can a soul descend ON ITSELF and enter the PARTICULAR BODY (as per its sanskaar and/role)?
AS per PBK argument, a soul can go to ANY BODY (or EVEN can enter into lifeless objects too!- Because PBKs consider the point soul as lifeless. ]
So- the sanskaar/role/essence is ALWAYS PRESENT in a soul whether it is in body or not.

[Or PBKs may be thinking - when God enters into body of Dixit, God receives from the corporeal body of Dixit??? They are inadvertently implying it, is it not? - :laugh: ]

429) So- the point is- we can remember ShivBaba anywhere. Baba says- "Always feel that I/Baba am combined with you".
But, the highest remembrance is to remember him at highest place- the Real Paramdham.

Baba says- "Remember me and the time cycle. But, Baba also says- once you understand the knowledge, there is no need to go into vistaar".

430) Sometimes also says- "There is no need to think of property. if you remember Father, property (related to corporeal world) is understood". Post No. 44, point No. 07 - SM 24-3-76(1) - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... bhav#p4111

431) So- those who utter "corporeal world", like parrots, do not realize what they are actually saying. Ridiculously, PBKs are happy to claim that they are parrots! What a wonderful coincidence!

** - This implies "PBKs do not know A,B, C s of either soul or God. Baba reminds the Bhakti song- "Chaaron taraf lagayen pherey, phir bhee har dum door/dur rahey "- this FULLY applies to PBKs or even more. They have Murlis with them, but still far from God/Truth.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 19 Jun 2017

we can remember ShivBaba anywhere.
Sarvavyapi.

mbbhat
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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 19 Jun 2017

# Flaw No. 552) ONCE AGAIN PBKs do not understand even the language or CORRECT word meaning:-
sita wrote:Sarvavyapi.
432) Just again LLU.
PBKs do not even understand the word meaning of "sarvavyaapi/omnipresent". Better first learn the language.

Sarvavyaapi/omnipresent means one who is present at ALL THE PLACES AT THE SAME TIME, not at ANY PLACE (at ANY given time).

433) One can think of the President at any place in the country. If one thinks of the President at various places, at DIFFERENT times, does it mean the President is omnipresent? Is it wrong?*
[To believe the President is present at EVERY PLACE, ALL THE TIME, in the country, is sarvavyaapi/omnipresent].

* 434) - One can remember the President at any place, but usually, or MOST of the Time, he is remembered in Parliament or in Raj Bhavan.
Similarly, God can be remembered at any place, but the best way is to remember HIM in Paramdham. Very simple logic.

(Some similar examples of PBKs failing to understand word meanings are given in Flaw No. 430, and 512, and 125. )

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 19 Jun 2017

we can remember ShivBaba anywhere.
This is new knowledge. It is not there in the BK.


= RESPONSE =
How do you remember a point of light in Paramdham when you don't know which point is which?
How does an embodied soul – (who is COMPLETELY body-conscious) - recognize one’s corporeal Father, from among a crowd of, say, 100 persons?
NO EXPLANATION REQUIRED. If one has a DONKEY intellect, and KEEPS ON QUESTIONING, as to how does one recognize one’s corporeal Father, from among a crowd of 100 persons - NO PLAUSIBLE EXPLANATION would help such an individual to understand, UNTIL that one’s DONKEY intellect CHANGES.

SIMILARLY, how does an embodied soul – (who is in the process of DEVELOPING soul-consciousness, and who becomes AWARE, although STILL number-wise, that (s)he is ACTUALLY a soul, a Point source of Luminous Spiritual Light Energy) - Re-Cognize one’s Unlimited, Incorporeal, ‘Parlokik’ Supreme Father Supreme Soul, ALSO a POINT source of Luminous Spiritual Light Energy, from among INNUMERABLE OTHER souls, who are ALSO Points of Luminous Light Energy?
ONCE AGAIN, NO EXPLANATION REQUIRED. BUT, if one has a DONKEY intellect, and KEEPS ON QUESTIONING – EVEN AFTER SEVERAL CLARIFICATIONS by God HIMSELF - as to how does one recognize one’s Unlimited, Incorporeal, ‘Parlokik’ Supreme Father Supreme Soul, ALSO a POINT source of Luminous Spiritual Light Energy, from among INNUMERABLE OTHER souls, who are ALSO Points of Luminous Spiritual Light Energy – NO AMOUNT OF EXPLANATIONS would help such an individual to COMPREHEND SENSIBLY, UNTIL that one’s DONKEY intellect CHANGES.

AS LONG as one is body-conscious, one can CONDITIONALLY Re-Cognize God, ONLY through another body-conscious individual – and that TOO, NUMBER-WISE.
ONCE one DEVELOPS soul-consciousness, THEN, and ONLY THEN, can one ABSOLUTELY Re-Cognize God, the way He ACTUALLY is, ALSO a POINT source of Luminous Spiritual Light Energy, from among INNUMERABLE OTHER souls, who are ALSO Points of Luminous Spiritual Light Energy – by VIRTUE of the POWERFUL SPIRITUAL VIBRATIONS EMANATING from Him, which CLEARLY DISTINGUISH HIM from ALL OTHER souls, who are ALSO Points of Luminous Spiritual Light Energy. Whereas, He is the ONLY ONE who is ACTUALLY TRANSMITTING the Spiritual Vibrations, ALL OTHERS would ONLY be receiving same.

SO SIMPLE, INDEED! But, it is also EQUALLY TRUE, that same is ABSOLUTELY DIFFICULT to COMPREHEND for embodied souls, who STILL have DONKEY intellects, like the BLIND PBKs and their EQUALLY BLIND bodily guru, -Virendra Dev Dixit – who have been INEXORABLY TRAPPED in the VICIOUS BOG of EXTREME body-consciousness, by ADULTERATING, CORRUPTING & INVERTING their intellects - AFTER EXPOSING their intellects to the ADULTERATED & CORRUPTED, REVERSED advanced knowledge – with ABSOLUTELY NO HOPE, or CHANCE, to ACTUALLY EXPERIENCE God, the way He ACTUALLY is, UNLESS they DECIDE to give up their ABJECT ARROGANCE of body-consciousness, and TUNE the Spiritual frequency of their intellects to the Pure UNADULTERATED Knowledge – which is 180 Degrees OUT of PHASE with the CURRENT Spiritual frequency of their intellects!

God, HIMSELF, has been CONTINUOUSLY PROVIDING a FULL, COMPLETE & UNADULTERATED Introduction of Himself, having PROGRESSIVELY REFINED SAME, through the SMs & AVs, spoken through the Lotus Mouth/Intellectual Orifice of Brahma Baba.
INNUMERABLE Points have been ALREADY HIGHLIGHTED on this forum, and CONTINUE to be HIGHLIGHTED, with UNADULTERATED UNLIMITED CLARIFICATIONS of the Pure UNADULTERATED Knowledge of God, revealed through Brahma Baba.
But SUCH CLARIFICATIONS would OBVIOUSLY be MEANINGLESS to individuals with DONKEY intellects, whose Spiritual frequency is CLEARLY 180 Degrees OUT of PHASE. Hence these UNADULTERATED UNLIMITED CLARIFICATIONS are CLEARLY NOT MEANT for SUCH souls with DONKEY intellects, who should SIMPLY IGNORE them, and CONTINUE with their USUAL DONKEY-HOOD, as per their destined roles and designated spiritual affinity.

NO OFFENCE INTENDED to them, WHATSOEVER! Those who have DECIDED, and those who may DECIDE in FUTURE, to SURRENDER their ARROGANCE of DONKEY-HOOD, may like to BEGIN to CONSIDER these UNADULTERATED UNLIMITED CLARIFICATIONS, being provided herein, for their VERY OWN BENEFIT & UPLIFT - if, AT ALL, they so desire!
Also view point 3 of the post dated 19.06.2017, in link below –
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2602&p=53057#p53057

ACCORDING to the RELEVANT PROCESS of REMEMBRANCE ACTUALLY EMPLOYED, SO WILL BE the ACTUAL RESULT EXPERIENCED, by the CONCERNED souls – NUMBER-WISE! VERY SIMPLE, INDEED!

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 19 Jun 2017

NO EXPLANATION REQUIRED
Certainly our knowledge is based on explanation and explanation is needed for everything. Baba has explained the way to recognize the Supreme Soul among the other souls. It is when He enters in a corporeal body and imparts knowledge through the mouth that we can recognize that this knowledge cannot come by any other source, but the supreme Father. Baba has also explained that in their form all souls are alike, points of lights, the Supreme Soul also has the same form and looks the same, it is not that the Supreme Soul is bigger or smaller than any other ordinary soul. Looking at just a point of light, it is not possible to recognize if this soul is a soul of a human, a fish or a crocodile.

The light of the soul is also not some physical light, it is the light of knowledge which is emitted through a corporeal body. No knowledge can be explained or understood without a corporeal body. Baba does not teach by inspiration. And for Yoga knowledge is needed, that is the knowledge about the supreme Father, his introduction. Without a corporeal body all souls are like non-living and cannot act, cannot be revealed or recognized and this applies also to the soul of the supreme Father, who is also bound by the drama and has to come in a corporeal body, and then it is that He is revealed with His name, form, place, time and acts, that is we receive His full introduction and we remember him in an easy and natural way, because it is easy to remember something you have seen, heard etc. through your body. Baba says in the Murli...children ask how to remember, come on, I am sitting in front of you and am telling you remember me, what is the difficult thing to understand in that.

There has also been an extensive discussion with quoted points, there are dedicated topics about that, there are many points which say that we remember the soul but the body will certainly also be remembered, that a soul cannot be remembered without a body, that first the body is remembered and then the soul, and this is how we also give searchlight to others, because the soul is recognized through the body. It is certainly due to ignorance that you are speaking the way you do and trying to bring others in ignorance too. It has been explained very clearly in the Murli, that without Brahma we cannot get anything. It is difficult to remember just a point, nor can you develop love or hatred towards a point. It is with the corporeal one that one has love or hatred based on past actions, and when the supreme Father enters him, this is revealed. The remembrance in the body has been practiced all the time at the time of Brahma Baba and in the mind and hearts of the Dadis still this form appears, because remembrance is based on experience. Baba also compares many times the remembrance with the mother remembering her child, that she certainly does not remember him like a point of light, but through the body and based on her experience and not everywhere, but she knows he is in London, for example.

It is true that if we achieve subtle stage that although we may be far away it can be the same as if we are experiencing meeting face to face, but for that again the Father has come in a corporeal body. It is only after Brahma Baba had left his body that someone has invented this new way to remember only a point, because at that time the Supreme Soul was not revealed through a corporeal body. Dadi Kumarka had also come with the idea against the Shrimat that I now have direct connection with ShivBaba. No one can have direct connection with ShivBaba. Everyone has direction with ShivBaba through Brahma. This is what the knowledge says.


= RESPONSE =

“Certainly our Knowledge is based on explanation and explanation is needed for everything.”
Shiva provides the required explanation through the UNADULTERATED Knowledge, ONLY through Brahma Baba.
Ravan provides the required explanation through the ADULTERATED knowledge, ONLY through the ‘mukrar-rath’ of Ravan, -Virendra Dev Dixit!

“Baba has explained the way to recognize the Supreme Soul among the other souls. It is when He enters in a corporeal body and imparts knowledge through the mouth that we can recognize that this knowledge cannot come by any other source, but the supreme Father.”
Supreme Soul enters the corporeal body of Brahma Baba and imparts the UNADULTERATED Knowledge, through which the Righteous Children Re-Cognize the Supreme Father.
Ravan, MASQUERADES as the ‘Supreme Soul’, through the corporeal body of the ‘mukrar-rath’ of Ravan, and imparts the ADULTERATED knowledge, through which the BLIND Unrighteous children are TREACHEROUSLY TRICKED into DELUSIVELY believing that same originates from the Supreme Father – while the Righteous Children CLEARLY & UNMISTAKABLY Re-Cognize that same originates from Ravan, through the BOGUS mouth of the ‘mukrar-rath’ of Ravan, MASQUERADING as the ‘mukrar-rath’ of God – VERY CLEAR TO THEM, NO AMBIGUITY, WHATSOEVERThe Knowledge ITSELF is the DISCRIMINATING INSTRUMENT & a CLEAR MIRROR, with which the Righteous Children CLEARLY Re-Cognize Shiva & His ‘mukrar-rath’, on the one hand;
and Ravan & the ‘mukara-rath’ of Ravan, MASQUERADING as the ‘mukrar-rath’ of God, on the other hand!

“Baba has also explained that in their form all souls are alike, points of lights, the Supreme Soul also has the same form and looks the same, it is not that the Supreme Soul is bigger or smaller than any other ordinary soul. Looking at just a point of light, it is not possible to recognize if this soul is a soul of a human, a fish or a crocodile.”
It is DEFINITELY IMPOSSIBLE to DISTINGUISH Supreme Soul from other souls - through JUST an ORDINARY VISION of a POINT of Light – for embodied souls, who are STILL TRAPPED in ABJECT body-consciousness.
It is DEFINITELY EXTREMELY EASY – BASED ON PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE – to DISTINGUISH Supreme Soul Shiva from ANY other soul, or other souls, who may be SEEN as Points of Light – with the Divine Vision of the THIRD EYE – for embodied souls, who are NO LONGER TRAPPED in ABJECT body-consciousness, but who have SINCE, DEVELOPED a CERTAIN DEGREE of soul-consciousness, although STILL number-wise – having TRANSLATED the UNADULTERATED Knowledge into PRACTICAL Spiritual EXPERIENCE, in ACCORDANCE with the ACTUAL INTENT and CLEAR DIRECTIVE of Supreme Soul Shiva!

“The light of the soul is also not some physical light, it is the light of knowledge which is emitted through a corporeal body. No knowledge can be explained or understood without a corporeal body. Baba does not teach by inspiration. And for Yoga knowledge is needed, that is The Knowledge about the supreme Father, his introduction.”
The UNADULTERATED Knowledge, and ACCURATE Introduction, have ALREADY been given by the Supreme Father, HIMSELF - ONLY THROUGH Brahma Baba, and through NO OTHER embodied soul, on this corporeal sphere.
The UNADULTERATED ‘Light of Knowledge’ is given by God THROUGH Brahma Baba.
The ADULTERATED ‘Darkness of Ignorance’, (which is DELUSIVELY considered by the BLIND PBKs to be the ‘unlimited clarifications’ of the ‘Light of Knowledge’ given through Brahma Baba), is initiated by the Godly Form of Ravan or Maya, and propagated through the BOGUS mouth of the ‘mukrar-rath’ of Ravan, MASQUERADING as the ‘mukrar-rath’ of God – who is, OBVIOUSLY, the bodily guru of the BLIND PBKs, -Virendra Dev Dixit!

“Without a corporeal body all souls are like non-living and cannot act, cannot be revealed or recognized and this applies also to the soul of the supreme Father, who is also bound by the drama and has to come in a corporeal body, and then it is that He is revealed with His name, form, place, time and acts, that is we receive His full introduction and we remember him in an easy and natural way, because it is easy to remember something you have seen, heard etc. through your body.”
The Supreme Father has ALREADY PERFORMED ALL ABOVE FUNCTIONS, EXCLUSIVELY through the corporeal body of Brahma Baba. For souls who come into the Knowledge, AFTER Brahma Baba leaves his corporeal body, same is PERCEIVED by them through the corporeal bodies of instrumental souls, who have been OFFICIALLY APPOINTED by God for the CONCERNED purpose - while God CONTINUES to give them the EXPERIENCE of a ‘corporeal meeting’, when He comes in ‘Avyakt’, COMBINED with Brahma Baba, using the instrumental corporeal body of Dadi Gulzar. ALL the MISCONCEPTIONS of the PBKs, regarding this ‘Avyakt’ ENTRY, have ALREADY been ADEQUATELY DEALT with, SEVERAL TIMES on this forum, but the BLIND PBKs are UNABLE to absorb same, owing to their body-conscious, STONE intellects!

“Baba says in the Murli...children ask how to remember, come on, I am sitting in front of you and am telling you remember me, what is the difficult thing to understand in that.”
Meant for the initial CHILD stage of body-conscious souls, and NOT for the ADULT stage of souls, who have SINCE made necessary efforts, and DEVELOPED soul-consciousness, although STILL number-wise.
It is NOT FEASIBLE for MANY Children to sit in front of a corporeal body, ALL the TIME!!!

“There has also been an extensive discussion with quoted points, there are dedicated topics about that, there are many points which say that we remember the soul but the body will certainly also be remembered, that a soul cannot be remembered without a body, that first the body is remembered and then the soul, and this is how we also give searchlight to others, because the soul is recognized through the body.”
MEANT for the INTERACTION BETWEEN embodied souls, who are STILL body-conscious!

“It is certainly due to ignorance that you are speaking the way you do and trying to bring others in ignorance too.”
PBKs are ALREADY in EXTREME DARKNESS of ADULTERATED knowledge, and there is NO FURTHER SCOPE to CONTINUE in THAT IGNORANT DIRECTION. The ONLY HOPE for them is to TURN AROUND, and move TOWARDS the DIRECTION of the LIGHT of UNADULTERATED Knowledge – if they, AT ALL, CHOOSE to do so.
The bodily guru of the PBKs, -Virendra Dev Dixit, was THROWN OUT of the Indra Sabha, at Mt Abu, on ACCOUNT of his RANK IGNORANCE, ABJECT ARROGANCE & LASCIVIOUS VISION! And the STUPID PBKs are BLINDLY following him, VERY MUCH to their VERY OWN DETRIMENT & PERDITION!

“It has been explained very clearly in the Murli, that without Brahma we cannot get anything.”
Refers EXCLUSIVELY to the REAL ‘mukrar-rath’ of God, who is Brahma Baba;
and DOES NOT refer to the ‘mukrar-rath’ of Ravan, MASQUERADING as the ‘mukrar-rath’ of God, and as ‘Prajapita’, etc., and making THOROUGH IDIOTS out of the BLIND PBKs!

“It is difficult to remember just a point, nor can you develop love or hatred towards a point. It is with the corporeal one that one has love or hatred based on past actions, and when the supreme Father enters him, this is revealed.”
It is difficult to remember just a Point, for souls who have NOT FOLLOWED Shrimat, and are therefore, STILL TRAPPED in body-consciousness. Love, or attachment, and hatred, are developed between embodied souls with karmic accounts to settle between themselves, based on their past interactions through corporeal bodies. Supreme Father DOES NOT have such karmic accounts to settle with ANY embodied soul, and hence the same DOES NOT apply to Him. Embodied souls, who become soul-conscious, ONCE AGAIN, although STILL number-wise, are able to DEVELOP PURE Love for God, ONCE AGAIN.

“The remembrance in the body has been practiced all the time at the time of Brahma Baba and in the mind and hearts of the Dadis still this form appears, because remembrance is based on experience.”
Same was practiced in the INITIAL stages of respective souls, in ACCORDANCE with their individual Spiritual potential and ability. Same was PROGRESSIVELY discouraged by Shiva, and His FINAL directive to ALL embodied souls, was to forget ALL BODILY BEINGS, INCLUDING one’s OWN body, and INCLUDING the corporeal or subtle forms of the ‘mukrar-rath’ of God, and to consider the Self as a soul, and Remember ONLY the Supreme Soul, in His Supreme Abode or the Soul World. It is ENTIRELY up to the CONCERNED embodied souls, to follow this CLEAR DIRECTIVE of God - IF, AT ALL, they have the intention to become soul-conscious, and become pure, WITHOUT EXPERIENCING ANY CORPOREAL or SUBTLE PUNISHMENT!

“Baba also compares many times the remembrance with the mother remembering her child, that she certainly does not remember him like a point of light, but through the body and based on her experience and not everywhere, but she knows he is in London, for example.”
ONCE AGAIN, this refers to the INITIAL CHILD stage of embodied souls, who were STILL body-conscious, and DOES NOT apply to the ADULT stage of embodied souls, who have since DEVELOPED their respective soul-conscious stages, although STILL number-wise.
Are PBKs able to get the EXACT CO-ORDINATES of the EXACT LOCATION of their bodily guru, CONTINUOUSLY, AT ANY REQUIRED TIME, from MOMENT to MOMENT, DURING the ENTIRE DAY, to be able to have CONSTANT remembrance of God, through his impure perishable corporeal body? Or, would they be remembering him, where ever he may be, with his corporeal body? So, in this case, would it be considered that he is omnipresent?

“It is true that if we achieve subtle stage that although we may be far away it can be the same as if we are experiencing meeting face to face, but for that again the Father has come in a corporeal body.”
The Supreme Father ALREADY came, and ALREADY COMPLETED His role through the corporeal body of Brahma Baba, in ‘Sakar’, in 1969. There is NO NEED for Him to CONTINUE with that SPECIFIC role, through a corporeal body, in ‘Sakar’, AFTER 1969, since He ALREADY COMPLETED giving the REQUIRED Knowledge through the corporeal body of Brahma Baba, in 1969. Thereafter, Shiva STILL CONTINUES to come, in order to give the Children an experience of a ‘Sakar Meeting’, in ‘Avyakt’, and NOT in ‘Sakar’, through the subtle body of Brahma Baba, using the instrumental corporeal body of Dadi Gulzar. The MISCONCEPTIONS of the BLIND PBKs, regarding Shiva coming, along with the subtle body of Brahma Baba, AFTER 1969, using the instrumental corporeal body of Dadi Gulzar, in ‘Avyakt’, have ALREADY been ADEQUATELY DEALT with, VERY EXTENSIVELY, on this forum - but the BLIND PBKs ARE NOT ABLE to APPRECIATE same, or RETAIN same in their intellects, owing to their ADULTERATED, CORRUPTED & INVERTED STONE intellects – ALL, PERFECTLY, AS PER DRAMA PLAN – NOTHING NEW, AT ALL!

“It is only after Brahma Baba had left his body that someone has invented this new way to remember only a point, because at that time the Supreme Soul was not revealed through a corporeal body.”
This is a CLEAR DIRECTIVE of God, HIMSELF, to embodied souls, to enable them to DEVELOP soul-consciousness, WITHOUT EXPERIENCING CORPOREAL PUNISHMENT. THOSE WHO ENJOY EXPERIENCING CORPOREAL PUNISHMENT, like the bodily guru of the BLIND PBKs, and the PBKs THEMSELVES, are FREE to IGNORE the DIRECTIVE of God, if they so desire, and if they feel they are MORE CLEVER THAN GOD, HIMSELF. They would have to wait and see where this ULTIMATELY gets them! Whereas, ACCURATE Remembrance gives INSTANT FRUIT, and NOT in the FUTURE – it is ABSOLUTELY SELF-VERIFIABLE, and TOTALLY INDEPENDENT of the personal EXPERIENCE, and personal OPINION of another individual!
The BLIND PBKs have been FOOLED by ISOLATED, EARLIER Murli Points, or Murli Points which refer to the devotees of the outer World of Ravan Rajya, and have been TRAPPED at the LEVEL of the BABY-INTELLECT, which has since DETERIORATED to STONE-INTELLECT, due to LACK of REQUIRED Spiritual DEVELOPMENT. The result is that they STILL think Brahma Baba has a BABY-INTELLECT, or that Brahma Baba is STILL a Student, or that the ‘donkey’ over the head of Ravan represents Brahma Baba, etc. - ALL OF WHICH, PROVES, BEYOND DOUBT, that the BLIND PBKs and their BLIND bodily guru, -Virendra Dev Dixit, SEE ALL OTHERS, with their INNER, INHERENT VISION of ‘BABY-HOOD’, ‘STONE-HOOD’ & ‘DONKEY-HOOD’, and TOTALLY DISREGARD the ground realities, and the Pure Versions of God in their CORRECT PERSPECTIVE!

“Dadi Kumarka had also come with the idea against the Shrimat that I now have direct connection with ShivBaba. No one can have direct connection with ShivBaba.”
Souls who are STILL TRAPPED in ABJECT body-consciousness, can NEVER EXPERIENCE a DIRECT CONNECTION with ShivBaba, UNTIL they become soul-conscious, although STILL number-wise.
Dadi Kumarka spoke through her personal experience, and did not simply express an abstract idea, as was assumed by 'MAHA-MURKH' Virendra Dev Dixit, and READILY LAPPED UP by the GULLIBLE PUPPIES, the BLIND STUPID PBKs!

“Everyone has direction with ShivBaba through Brahma. This is what The Knowledge says.”
ALL the Righteous Children received, and STILL RECEIVE, directions from ShivBaba, THROUGH Brahma Baba, who is the ‘mukrar-rath’ of God.
Whereas, the BLIND Unrighteous children receive their directions from the Godly Form or ‘Ishwariya Rup’ of Ravan or Maya, through the BOGUS mouth of the ‘mukrar-rath’ of Ravan, MASQUERADING as the ‘mukrar-rath’ of God – having been TREACHEROUSLY TRICKED into DELUSIVELY believing that such directions originate from God!!!

ONCE one DEVELOPS soul-consciousness, THEN, and ONLY THEN, can one ABSOLUTELY Re-Cognize God, the way He ACTUALLY is, ALSO a POINT source of Luminous Spiritual Light Energy, from among INNUMERABLE OTHER souls, who are ALSO Points of Luminous Spiritual Light Energy – by VIRTUE of the POWERFUL SPIRITUAL VIBRATIONS EMANATING from Him, which CLEARLY DISTINGUISH HIM from ALL OTHER souls, who are ALSO Points of Luminous Spiritual Light Energy. Whereas, He is the ONLY ONE who is ACTUALLY TRANSMITTING the Spiritual Vibrations, ALL OTHERS would ONLY be receiving same.

God, HIMSELF, has been CONTINUOUSLY PROVIDING a FULL, COMPLETE & UNADULTERATED Introduction of Himself - having PROGRESSIVELY REFINED SAME - through the SMs & AVs, spoken through the Lotus Mouth/Intellectual Orifice of Brahma Baba.
INNUMERABLE Points have been ALREADY HIGHLIGHTED on this forum, and CONTINUE to be HIGHLIGHTED, with UNADULTERATED UNLIMITED CLARIFICATIONS of the Pure UNADULTERATED Knowledge of God, revealed through Brahma Baba.
But SUCH CLARIFICATIONS would OBVIOUSLY be MEANINGLESS to individuals with DONKEY intellects, whose Spiritual frequency is CLEARLY 180 Degrees OUT of PHASE. Hence these UNADULTERATED UNLIMITED CLARIFICATIONS are CLEARLY NOT MEANT for SUCH souls with DONKEY intellects, who should SIMPLY IGNORE them, and HAPPILY CONTINUE with their USUAL DONKEY-HOOD, as per their destined roles and designated spiritual affinity.

NO OFFENCE INTENDED to them, WHATSOEVER! Those who have DECIDED, and those who may DECIDE in FUTURE, to SURRENDER their ARROGANCE of DONKEY-HOOD, may like to BEGIN to CONSIDER these UNADULTERATED UNLIMITED CLARIFICATIONS, being provided herein, for their VERY OWN BENEFIT & UPLIFT - if, AT ALL, they so desire!
Also view point 3 of the post dated 19.06.2017, and point 3 of the post dated 20.06.2017, in links below –
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2602&p=53057#p53057
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2602&p=53062#p53062

ACCORDING to the RELEVANT PROCESS of REMEMBRANCE ACTUALLY EMPLOYED, SO WILL BE the ACTUAL RESULT EXPERIENCED, by the CONCERNED souls – NUMBER-WISE! VERY SIMPLE, INDEED!

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 21 Jun 2017

# Flaw No. 553) PBKs once again prove they do not know basics of Yaad/REMEMBRANCE:-
mbbhat:- we can remember ShivBaba anywhere.

sita:- This is new knowledge. It is not there in the BK*.
435) There are several Murli points which imply same - Examples -
(sorry, do not have date for all the points, but most of them you would be knowing)-

----a) Yaad ke liye koyi bhee tareekaa apnaavo = Adopt any suitable technique for remembrance.
----b) Agar chotee roop may Yaad naheen kar sakthay ho, toh bade roop may Yaad karo =
If you cannot remember ShivBaba, as a small form (of a point), remember in a bigger form.
----c) If you cannot remember point (ShivBaba) due to being small, you remember the Home; Home is big, is it not?
----d) Remember the Home. Automatically Father's remembrance also will emerge in you**
----e) Bring Paramdham down here.
----f) You can realize Subtle Region in this corporeal itself. You will feel the present place (corporeal world) itself as Subtle Region.

----g) SM 10-1-87(1):- Vah akar Raja Yoga sikhate hain. Tum jaante ho ShivBaba humko padha rahe hain. Zaroor aankhon se dekhenge na. Atma bhi hai na. Tum kahte ho hum atma hain, zaroor star misal hain. DEKHNE BHI AATAA HAI. Khud atma kahti hai main star hun. Bahut maheen hun. Atma bhrukuti ke beech rahti hai. Yah bhi jaante hain. Koyi kahte hain hum kaise jaane. ACHCHA BHRUKUTI MAY NAHIN SAMJHO, KAHAAN NA KAHAAN TO HAI. BHRUKUTI MAY NAHIN SAMJHO TO AANKHON MAY SAMJHO. Atma hee kahti hai yeh mera shareer hai. Bhrukuti shuddh sthaan hai. Isliye atma kaa nivaas sthaan yahaan dikhaate hain. Teekaa nishaani bhee yahaan dee jaati hai.

= ....Soul is in the middle of the forehead. (Many) know that. Some say- How can we be sure (that soul is in middle of forehead)? OK,if you cannot feel it in forehead, it is OK. IT IS PRESENT AT LEAST SOMEWHERE (is it not!). If you cannot feel it in forehead, feel it in EYES!....

----h) SM 2-9-83(1):- Aaj sadguruvaar hai. Tumhaaraa toh sadguruvaar roz hai. Sadguru roz tumko padhaate hain. Aur vah tumhaaraa Baap bhee hai. Yah toh nishchay hona chahiye na. Sarvavyaapi naheen kahenge. Harek atma ki buddhi may hai patit pavan parampita parmatma humko Rajayog sikhlaate hain. Vah gyaan ka saagar hai. yah toh buddhi may nishchay rahna chaahiye. YAH EK HEE BAAP HAI JISKO KOYI BHEE ROOP MAY Yaad KARO. BUDDHI OOPAR NIRAAKAAR KI TARAF CHALEE JAATI HAI. KOYI AAKAAR VA Sakar NAHEEN. Aatmaavon ko parampita parmatama se ab kaam padaa hai. Parantu jaante naheen. Saahstron may toh gyaan naheen. -1 [Yaad, WOT]

= Today is Sadguruvaar (Thursday - Day of the True Guru). Everyday is Sadguruvaar for you. Sadguru(True Guru) teaches you everyday. And, he is also your Father. This faith should be there, is it not? He is not omnipresent. It is in every soul's (child's) intellect that the Supreme Father Supreme Soul, the Purifier, is teaching them Rajayog. He is the Ocean of Knowledge. This faith should be there in intellect. IN WHATEVER FORM ONE MAY REMEMBER THIS ONE Father, ONE's INTELLECT GOES TOWARDS THE INCORPOREAL. NEITHER CORPOREAL, NOR SUBTLE. The souls now have work with the Supreme Father Supreme Soul. But, they do not know HIM. In scriptures, there is no knowledge.

----i) BapDada ALSO SAYS- HE EMERGES CHILDREN IN VATAN(Subtle Region) AND GIVES SAKAASH.
[If BapDada can emerge children there, even when children are here, and if we can emerge Paramdham in this world, and Baba says- you always think that ShivBaba is with you combined, why not remember ShivBaba within our own body? (of course, it is lower level as already mentioned) Even in Bhakti yaadgaars, it is shown that Krishna (actually it should be for ShivBaba) is present with every one of his 8/108 queens/souls.]

----j) SM 22-3-78(2):- Toophaan bade zhor se aavenge dagmagaane ke liye. Parantu phir bhi tum apnaa purushaarth karte chalo. IS SHARIR KO BHULAANAA ATHVA BAAP KI Yaad MAY RAHNA BAAT EK HEE HAI. Apne ko atma ashareeri samajhna pade.

= ...Forgetting the body or remembering the Father – both are one and the same!

[Dear Sita Soul, How is that? PBKs claim God should be remembered in body of Dixit only, is it not?
The point is- Since children have knowledge, if they put effort in ANY MANNER, honestly and continuously-, automatically, they will be pulled upwards]. Hope PBKs realize such simple things.

----k) SM 1-5-79(2):- Yaad se hi kat utharthi jaavegi. BAAP KO Yaad KARNA GOYA GHAR KO AUR RAJAYI KO Yaad KARNA. Sadaiv Baba-Baba karte raho. Yah hai braahmanon ki ruhaani yaatraa. Supreme ruh Baap ko Yaad karte2 ghar pahunch jaavenge. Apne ko atma samajh baap ko Yaad karna hai. Jitna dehi abhimani ban_ne ka purusharth karenge, to karm indriyaan bhi vash hoti jaavengi. Karmendriyon ko vash karne ka ek hi upaay Yaad kaa hai. -57 [WOT]

= By remembrance only, rust will get removed. To remember the Father, means to remember the Home and the Kingdom! Always say, 'baba, baba'...


** 436) Regarding saints, Baba has said- "Saints remember only the Home, hence their sins do not get burnt". [saints do not (cannot) remember God, since they believe God = Home. They even do not have knowledge of God.]
---But, for he children, Baba has said - "If you remember Home, automatically Father's remembrance also will emerge! (Why? Because children have Knowledge of Father).

*437) - Unfortunately, PBKs realize, neither BK knowledge, nor the PBk knowledge. They neither realize what they say, nor what Murli says or BKs say. - :sad:

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 23 Jun 2017

Om Shanti

Dear One who writes the response,

I have read your replies. I have objection on two points, for which I request that you bring Murli points to support your view. One is that Baba has said that remembering through the body is just for small children and for the time of initial effort, and later this type of remembrance has to change. Baba has said that we should never remember any corporeal body still at the time of Brahma Baba. When in the body of Brahma Baba the Supreme Soul used to tell that don't look at this body, but the soul inside, he used to ask in whose lap have you come to. Those who said Brahma failed, those who said ShivBaba passed. So it is a matter of vision and not of the Supreme Soul being in a corporeal body or not. The meaning of the point that we should forget any corporeal form, is not that he should not be in corporeal form, but that we should not see the corporeal form, but the soul inside. You have to bring Murli point to prove that Baba has directed that the mode of remembrance will change, as you claim.

The other point for which I desire Murli points to support your claim is that Baba has instructed that we should have a connection directly with ShivBaba, without Brahma. Note again that ShivBaba does not come in subtle Brahma.

The other point is that you have said that you are able to recognize the Supreme Soul in Paramdham based on his vibrations. But are there vibrations in Paramdham, or are vibrations a matter of this corporeal world?

In short your main point is that you claim you are soul conscious, so by the grace of that you are able to forge a connection with the Supreme Soul. Now the discussion will have to be about how far you are soul conscious or not. Claims certainly does not prove anything. But I accept that this is your belief about yourself and about what knowledge is about, so I respect that.

The task of God was not completed. We did not receive inheritance. The matter that study is over is about the basic study. When one completes his basic studies or high school, he goes to university, but it is comparatively less people who study higher studies to those who study basic.

There are people who have visions and for them visions work. There are such souls who based on their feelings receive some temporary achievement. This achievement becomes a basis for their faith. But Baba has instructed that there is no benefit in visions, we should not desire to have vision. There is no benefit in imagination. Whatever knowledge says, based on this we can have visions with open eyes and the feeling we will be having based on reality are beneficial. And the feelings that come based on imaginations are like escapism. One day they will be destroyed to give way for the true vision about the world.

Dear Mbbhat,

I was wondering how to comment. You can understand if what you say is right or wrong. I am amazed by the interpretations you give on this point -
Yaad ke liye koyi bhee tareekaa apnaavo = Adopt any suitable technique for remembrance.
and the fact that remembering the Supreme Soul in your own body is also an option for you. Because you don't have faith in us, I suggest you speak about your ideas and interpretations with other BKs and see what their reaction is. I think that your ideas are not along with the BK knowledge, nor along with the Murli, but, please take the opinion of at least two other people. If for you the Seniors are authorities, please, approach them with these ideas of yours. I am curious to know what they will say.

If our practice is the practice of concentration, will our concentration increase or scatter if there is no single object of our concentration?

About the discussion that Mama goes ahead of Baba...At the Confluence Age Mama becomes Lakshmi, whilst Baba becomes Jagadamba, and the aim of knowledge is to become from a woman to Lakshmi, so Mama enjoys more praise.


= RESPONSE =

“I request that you bring Murli points to support your view.”
The VERY SAME Murli points which are used by the Righteous Children to carry out the ‘shooting’ of the ‘Day of Brahma’, or the ‘Day of the Cycle’, with their DIVINE intellects - are THEN used by the BLIND Unrighteous children to carry out the ‘shooting’ of the ‘Night of Brahma’, or the ‘Night of the Cycle’, with their ADULTERATED, CORRUPTED & INVERTED STONE intellects, or their Devilish intellects.
Hence, ANY Murli point, which is brought to the NOTICE of the BLIND Unrighteous children, WILL ALWAYS be MISINTERPRETED, MISAPPROPRIATED & MISREPRESENTED to ACCURATELY CORRESPOND to the DISTORTED & PERVERTED CONCEPTS of the ADULTERATED & CORRUPTED ‘Path of Devotion’, or ‘Rajopradhan & Tamopradhan Bhaktimarg’ of Ravan Rajya – to which the BLIND Unrighteous children have tuned their intellectual frequency - having been THOROUGHLY INDOCTRINATED & SATURATED with the ADULTERATED & CORRUPTED, REVERSED advanced knowledge!

INNUMERABLE Murli points from, BOTH, SMs & AVs, have ALREADY been provided on this forum EXTENSIVELY, and are STILL being provided on this forum CONTINUOUSLY, but they can be of NO USE to SUCH embodied souls - to enable them to COMPREHEND same in the CORRECT PERSPECTIVE, as per the TRUE, ORIGINAL INTENT of God - UNLESS & UNTIL the intellectual frequency of SUCH embodied souls, which is currently 180 degrees OUT of PHASE, CHANGES!

“Baba has said that remembering through the body is just for small children and for the time of initial effort, and later this type of remembrance has to change.”
Very CLEAR to embodied souls, with Divine intellects, in ACCORDANCE with the PROGRESSIVE REFINING of Murlis, SINCE the VERY BEGINNING. Souls with ADULTERATED, CORRUPTED & INVERTED STONE intellects would NOT BE ABLE to perceive same, and hence they should NOT even TRY! What they can do, however, is to TRY and COMPREHEND how they can CHANGE the frequency of their intellects - which is the FIRST STEP towards COMPREHENDING God’s Versions in the CORRECT PERSPECTIVE, as per His TRUE, ORIGINAL INTENT.

“So it is a matter of vision and not of the Supreme Soul being in a corporeal body or not.”
CORRECT. It is simply a matter of the REAL Vision with the THIRD EYE, or the DIVINE EYE of the INTELLECT – IRRESPECTIVE of whether Supreme Soul Shiva is within a corporeal body or not!

“The meaning of the point, that we should forget any corporeal form, is not that he should not be in corporeal form, but that we should not see the corporeal form, but the soul inside.”
This is the Spiritual practice which EMBODIED souls have to PERFECT – BETWEEN embodied souls, while STILL being body-conscious – and while STILL being within their corporeal forms. Supreme Soul Shiva DOES NOT remain within the corporeal form of ANY embodied soul, ALL the TIME, or the WHOLE DAY. Hence the question of remembering Him within the corporeal body of ANY embodied soul, WHEN HE IS CLEARLY NOT THERE, AT THAT TIME, DOES NOT ARISE, AT ALL!!!
The BLIND PBKs have ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE, as to HOW they would DISTINGUISH Supreme Soul Shiva, from their bodily guru, -Virendra Dev Dixit, ALSO MASQUERADING as THEIR ‘Supreme Soul’, within his impure perishable corporeal body, to be able to remember ONLY Supreme Soul Shiva, within the impure perishable corporeal body of their bodily guru – LEAVE ALONE, distinguishing from ANOTHER soul of Brahma Baba, who is ALSO within his impure perishable corporeal body (according to them). When there are THREE souls within the forehead of ONE impure perishable corporeal body, HOW would they DISTINGUISH WHO is WHO, and HOW would they be in a position to remember ONLY Supreme Soul Shiva???
These are NOTHING but THEIR DELUSIVE ‘imaginary visions’ or DISTORTED ‘mental perceptions’, through which they become instrumental to carry out the ‘shooting’ or HiranyaKashyap & Ravan Rajya – more specifically, in the latter part of Confluence Age – THAT’s ALL!!!

“Note again that ShivBaba does not come in subtle Brahma.”
This is CLEARLY, a MISAPPROPRIATION of the CONCERNED Pure Version of God. This has ALREADY been CLARIFIED NUMEROUS TIMES, on this forum, but such clarifications are USELESS, to those who CHOOSE to remain Spiritually BLIND to same.
REAL ShivBaba DOES NOT come in the SYMBOLIC, REPRESENTATIVE, PERFECT Form of Subtle Brahma, in the Subtle Region – DURING the PERIOD, WHEN, REAL ShivBaba is PRACTICALLY enacting His role of establishment, on this corporeal sphere, through the corporeal body of REAL PrajaPita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLR, UNTIL 1969; which task, He then CONTINUES, on this corporeal sphere, through the subtle body of REAL PrajaPita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLR, as Adi Dev – COMBINED TOGETHER with Brahma Baba, as BapDada – through the corporeal bodies of relevant instrumental souls - UNTIL the END of Confluence Age!

The BLIND Unrighteous children READILY LOCK their intellects to SUCH MISAPPROPRIATIONS of OUTDATED & OBSOLETE Versions, IN SPITE of CLEAR CLARIFICATIONS provided to them, regarding same, SEVERAL TIMES; and when CLEAR Murli points are brought to their notice, which CLEARLY DECLARE that Shankar DOES NOT come on this corporeal sphere, and DOES NOT enact ANY role through ANY corporeal body, of ANY embodied soul, (LIKE Shiva does) - they SIMPLY BLATANTLY IGNORE such points & RECKLESSLY DISMISS them!

“But are there vibrations in Paramdham, or are vibrations a matter of this corporeal world?”
The Vibrations from Supreme Soul Shiva, from the Supreme Abode, are EXPERIENCED ON THIS CORPOREAL SPHERE, by the CONCERNED embodied souls, who have since followed Shrimat ACCURATELY, and who have since DEVELOPED soul-consciousness – although STILL number-wise.

“Claims certainly do not prove anything. But I accept that this is your belief about yourself and about what knowledge is about, so I respect that.”
SIMILARLY, the FRAUDULENT claims of the ‘MAHA-MURKH’ ‘mukrar-rath’ of Ravan, -Virendra Dev Dixit, and the EQUALLY ‘MAHA-MURKH’ BLIND Unrighteous children, DO NOT PROVE ANYTHING, AT ALL! However, one has to accept their DISTORTED & PERVERTED beliefs, as well as, their ADULTERATED & CORRUPTED, REVERSED advanced knowledge – as being ACCURATE & APPROPRIATE, WITHIN the frame-work of Drama - for carrying out the ‘shooting’ of the ‘Night of Brahma’, or the ‘Night of the Cycle’, within this EWD Play – and hence, should be respected, AS SUCH – in that SPECIFIC, and, in that PARTICULAR CONTEXT!

It has ALREADY been CLARIFIED that ACCURATE Remembrance gives INSTANT FRUIT, and NOT in the FUTURE – it is ABSOLUTELY SELF-VERIFIABLE, and TOTALLY INDEPENDENT of the personal EXPERIENCE, and personal OPINION of another individual! Hence, one DOES NOT have to depend on ANY claims of ANOTHER individual, AT ALL - WHETHER TRUE or FRAUDULENT!
One SIMPLY has to be GUIDED by one's VERY OWN INDIVIDUAL EXPERIENCE, to VERIFY the CORRECTNESS or the TRUTH in same - THAT's ALL!

“The task of God was not completed. We did not receive inheritance. The matter that study is over is about the basic study.”
BOTH, REAL ShivBaba & Brahma Baba, COMBINED TOGETHER, as BapDada, are VERY MUCH, STILL INVOLVED in the task of World Transformation & World Purification, which will CONTINUE UNTIL the VERY END of Confluence Age. ALL the REQUIRED Knowledge has ALREADY been given by God THROUGH Brahma Baba. It is the Children, who have to PROGRESS in the CORRECT COMPREHENSION of same, and the ACTUAL ASSIMILATION of same – which have DIFFERENT LEVELS – right from the basic level to the very advanced level – depending on their individual effort, and the development of their Spiritual stage, from body-consciousness to soul-consciousness – according to which they will claim their respective inheritance from REAL ShivBaba, THROUGH Brahma Baba, by the END of Confluence Age!

“There are people who have visions and for them visions work. There are such souls who based on their feelings receive some temporary achievement. This achievement becomes a basis for their faith. But Baba has instructed that there is no benefit in visions, we should not desire to have vision. There is no benefit in imagination.”
The above pertains to the BLIND devotees of the outer World of Ravan Rajya, who have been THOROUGHLY INDOCTRINATED by their respective bodily gurus – the EXACT ‘shooting’ of which takes place, in Confluence Age, when the Godly Form or ‘Ishwariya Rup’ or Ravan or Maya, TREACHEROUSLY TRICKS the BLIND Unrighteous children, (through the ‘mukrar-rath’ of Ravan, MASQUERADING as ‘ShivBaba’, ‘Prajapita’, etc., and ALSO MASQUERADING as the ‘mukrar-rath’ of God), into DELUSIVELY believing that Shiva operates through the impure perishable corporeal body of their bodily guru, -Virendra Dev Dixit, whom they consider to be THEIR ‘Prajapita’, and who is addressed by them as THEIR ‘ShivBaba’. This is, IN FACT, EQUIVALENT to giving them DELUSIVE ‘imaginary visions’ or DISTORTED ‘mental perceptions’ - which have ABSOLUTELY NO SUBSTANCE, in ACCORDANCE with the Pure UNADULTERATED Versions of God, in the SMs & AVs, spoken through the Lotus Mouth/Intellectual Orifice of Braham Baba – WHEN CORRECTLY UNDERSTOOD in the PROPER PERSPECTIVE, with a Divine intellect.

“One day they will be destroyed to give way for the true vision about the world.”
SUCH DELUSIVE ‘imaginary visions’ or DISTORTED ‘mental perceptions’ of the BLIND Unrighteous children, will EVENTUALLY be DESTROYED or MERGED – ONCE they come to their PROPER SENSES – BUT ONLY at the VERY END - AFTER they become soul-conscious, through SEVERE PUNISHMENT, EXPERIENCED THROUGH HARSH EXTERNAL PROCESSES, incorporated within this EWD Play!

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 24 Jun 2017

sita wrote: Dear Mbbhat,
I am amazed by the interpretations you give on this point -
and the fact that remembering the Supreme Soul in your own body is also an option for you.
438) Dear soul, You are LOCKING your intellect to ONLY the TAIL, as usual. I have given several points- which prove the PBK concept is definitely incorrect.

BTW- One more Murli point connected to it-
-----AM 23-3-70(With Janak Sister= Janaki Dadi):- Pg 223 of Hindi Book = Ab tak vaanimorrth baney ho. Phir banenge saakshaatkaar moorth. Abhee Vani se auron ko saakshaatkaar hota hai. Lekin phir hoga silence se. Saakshaatkaar Moorth jab banenge, toh sabhee ke muk se kyaa niklegaa? Yah jo gaayan hai na ki sabhee paramatma ke roop hai, yah gaayan sangam par hee practical may hota hai. Bhaktimarg may jo bhee baatein chalee hai, vah sangam kee baaton ko mixture kiyaa hai. Tumaaree anth may yah sthiti aatee hai, jo sabhee may Sakshaath BapDada ko moorth mahsoos hogi. Sabhee ke mukh se yahee aavaaz niklegaa yah toh saakshaath Bapadaadaa kee moorth hai. Saakshaath roop ban_nay se saakshaatkaar hoga. Toh yah jo anth kaa roop sabhee may saakshaath roop dekhthay hain, isko mix karke kah dete hain ki sabhee parmatma ke roop hain. Baap ke samaan ko parmatma ke roop kah dete. Yah sabhee baatein yahaan se chalee hain. Toh saakshaatkaar moorth banney ke liye saakshaath Bapadada samaan ban_naa hai. Ab checking kyaa karnee hai? Vah checking naheen. Vah toh bachpan ke thay. Ab yah checking karnee hai. Jitnee samaanataa utnaa swamaan milegaa. Samaanataa se apney swamaan kaa lagaa saktey ho. Samaanataa kahaan tak laayee hai aur kahaan tak samaanataa laanee hai, yahee checking karnaa aur karaanaa hai. Yah bhee topic hai. Jitnee jismay samaanataa dekho utnaa sameep samjho. Sameep ratnon kee parakh samaanataa hai. – [Yaad, prediction, sarvavyaapi]

= ....Now, others receive vision(guidance) through words. But, later, it will happen through silence. When you become Saakshaatkaar-moorth (image of one who grants visions), then what will emerge from everyone's mouth? They praise that - "All are forms of God"- this praise takes place practically, in Conf Age itself. Whatever (MIS)understandings have occurred on the path of Bhakti, are due to MIXTURE (MISunderstanding) of the aspects of Conf Age. ...

----Baba says- become Baap samaan(Equal to Father).
----You also know that- initially the concept in Yagya had been - "I am God, you are God and everyone is God".
In the end, the concept would be "I am baap samaan, you are Baap samaan, and everyone is Baap samaan". That drushti would be there. (I feel so, as also said in above Murli, very clearly).
I suggest you speak about your ideas and interpretations with other BKs and see what their reaction is.
439) I need not take any suggestions from you. This topic is about "Flaws in PBK philosophy". So- better try to defend yourself in proving the PBK theory before commenting on others*.

----And- there is no need to get any certificate for me(or any BK), from Seniors. Why should I waste their time or disturb them, when Baba has given so many different ways clearly.

----Note that -Even many typing errors in Murlis have not affected BKs negatively as already shown in the forum, but PBKs got trapped.
If our practice is the practice of concentration, will our concentration increase or scatter, if there is no single object of our concentration?
441) The PBk concentration is already exposed here. They are doing countless errors. To whom PBKs are teaching about concentration? PBKs have invented many chariots, many Brahmas, many Jagadambas. - :laugh:
---PBKs have invented two Krishna, two Narayans, Lakshmi and Radha too, (but only one Ram and Sita!) - already said. ;-)

* - If you are interested in commenting about difference in opinions in BKs, you may start a new topic, or put such points in the thread - "Churning of Soul Brother Sita".

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 28 Jun 2017

# Flaw No. 554) The PBK title (so-called) "ADVANCED KNOWLEDGE" goes wrong by DEFAULT itself:-

442) PBKs claim the BK knowledge is the BASIC one and theirs is ADVANCED.
But, in fact, the BASICS in the PBK knowledge itself are UNCLEAR!
So- the title ADVANCE cannot fit to PBKs. For example, ...

443) The PBK Jagadamba got CHANGED in 1983.
So, DEFINITELY, till 1983, PBK philosophy is not fit for the title ADVANCE (but they claim as if the title is applicable from 1976 itself)!

444) And- RECENTLY- PBKs have changed the meaning of SHIVLING itself!
sita wrote: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2552&p=53079#p53079
It is an old point that the diamond in the Shivling is a memorial of Shiv. The new point is that it is a memorial of the complete stage.
443) So- PBKs admit that they had not been aware of the meaning of Shivling means till recently!

---Usually PBKs used to say - Shivling = Shiv plus Mr. Dixit.
But, now a PBK (Sita soul) says- it applies to just final stage of Mr. Dixit (so only to Dixit, Shiv is removed! - :sad: ).

444) Also- if PBKs believe, their belief/knowledge in/about Shivling had been wrong/inaccurate UNTIL NOW, how can one be sure about the so-called CLARIFICATION given by Mr. Sevakram in 1936 (the cooked up story by PBKs) is right? Would that also change in future? Logically speaking, it SHOULD change, as we can see PBKs keep on changing many things?

445) Now- if PBKs change even that (the clarification of the vision in 1936), then their so-called CLARIFICATION will TOTALLY lose value, as on 1936!

----If they say- "No- what Mr. Sevakram had said about vision (received by B baba in 1936) is fully right", then in PBK view- role of B Baba is more stable than their Dixit, as well as Shivling, etc!

So- in either way, PBKs fall into their own trap. Let God bless them.

446) BTW- since PBK belief/knowledge on most important/BASIC things like SHIVLING had been wrong till now, HOW CAN their EFFORT be right until present?

----And- if PBK gyaan is not yet stable and is changing now and then, PBKs are like more in Bhaktimarg, than in gyaanmaarg, is it not?
So-

# Flaw No. 555) PBKs inadvertently prove their EFFORT is like CHILDISH, and are in Bhaktimarg only:-

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 01 Jul 2017

# Flaw No. 555) PBKs inadvertently prove their EFFORT is like CHILDISH, and are in Bhaktimarg only:
I cannot speak about others. I am definitely on the path of Bhakti still, as my mind is going here and there, and I am in the process of learning. I don't know my part. If I would be on the path of knowledge, I would be knowledge-FULL, and there would be no need to study any more. I am in a childhood stage, and not complete, and I am also full of doubts about whether what I follow is correct, so my faith is also not firm, but I don't think this is something wrong. Despite the attitude of mbbhat I don't find that insulting and do no have an inferiority complex about that.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 04 Jul 2017

sita wrote:I cannot speak about others*. I am definitely on the path of Bhakti still, as my mind is going here and there, and I am in the process of learning. I don't know my part. If I would be on the path of knowledge, I would be knowledge-FULL, and there would be no need to study any more. I am in a childhood stage, and not complete, and I am also full of doubts about whether what I follow is correct, so my faith is also not firm, but I don't think this is something wrong. Despite the attitude of mbbhat I don't find that insulting and do no have an inferiority complex about that.
447) Dear Soul,
The above comment was not just for you. It is first for Mr. Dixit, and then only for PBKs. (if what you have written about new point on Shivling is given through your Guru Mr. Dixit).

---- Or, if you believe the new point on Shivling was not given by Mr. Dixit, but your own individual view, then obviously, you are doing manmath by giving your own views- which has not been certified by your ShivBaba, whom you claim to be Mr. Dixit.

* 448) When you claim something that- the new point/clarification on Shivling is so as so (as if Mr. Dixit only has given the clarification, you automatically/inadvertently speak for AIVV (at least when you mention such points).

Hope intellect of PBKs is matured at least to such extent.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 04 Jul 2017

447) Dear Soul,
The above comment was not just for you. It is first for Mr. Dixit, and then only for PBKs. (if what you have written about new point on Shivling is given through your Guru Mr. Dixit).

---- Or, if you believe the new point on Shivling was not given by Mr. Dixit, but your own individual view, then obviously, you are doing manmath by giving your own views- which has not been certified by your ShivBaba, whom you claim to be Mr. Dixit.

* 448) When you claim something that- the new point/clarification on Shivling is so as so (as if Mr. Dixit only has given the clarification, you automatically/inadvertently speak for AIVV (at least when you mention such points).

Hope intellect of PBKs is matured at least to such extent.
I have the freedom to post whenever and however I find appropriate. I am not to give explanations without need. If you are interested if some point is my churning or I have learned it, if the source is more important for you then the point itself, then you can certainly ask. But I can tell you in advance that I share whatever I have learned. But I suggest you to judge points without thinking about their source, otherwise you will become biased. Truth is truth no matter who says it. So, I think, it is better to limit our discussion over the points itself and not discuss who says it.

Also I have suggested to not make gross conclusions, just based on what I post here and make generalizations about all the PBKs. You may like to address the whole of AV, but it is only me here now. What I say in no way represents the AV.

You are also continuously making derogatory comments. This should stop.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 15 Jul 2017


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