Confusing Answers from AIVV.

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shivsena
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Re: Confusing Answers.

Post by shivsena » 21 May 2009

sachkhand wrote:I do not know how much effect my request has on Admin. But I am requesting admin here itself to remove the ban on Andrey. And I think no one should be banned for cross questioning someone. If we ban such members, then the forum's intention is failed.
Dear sachkhand Bhai.

i just want to clarify the controversy regarding andrey Bhai (an issue which as been given undue importance and blown out of proportion).

First of all i have nothing personal against andrey Bhai, but i was against his persistent attitude of butting in healthy conversations and off-tracking important discussions with his irrelavant posts.( not only myself but many of the other members of the forum were also of the same opinion). Andrey Bhai was first banned when he was still in brahmakumaris.info forum by the original administrator and i had absolutely nothing do with it. He was rightfully penalised for his persistent irrelavant behaviour. I was glad when he was banned, as the forum became healthy with to the point discussions by all members. Then after some time he was banned, i received a personal email from andrey Bhai who requested to me, that i write to the administrator of brahmakumaris.info to unban him, and also i could see by his email that he was getting restless by not being able to participate in the discussions. But i remained silent for the simple reason that there was no mention in his email that he would rectify his habit of interfering and irrelavant talks. I did not write to the administrator nor did i reply back to andreybhai and things continued in the same fashion.

Then the administrator decided to seperate out the bk-pbk group into a new forum and wrote to me and i replied to him that i am willing to take the full responsibility of the new forum if no one else came forward. So with the help of that very helpful brother(i am very grateful to him) i registered the domain bk-pbk.info and all the hard work of transferring the files were done by that brother(whose name i still do not know) and the new forum was born; in that process, he unbanned all the members and so andreybhai and other brothers(except you) were able to post ther views; when i received your email that you were still not able to post i tried everything in my means to unban you but i was not successful, so i wrote to the same brother and he guided me on how to unban and ban members and i was glad that you were re-instated and able to post your views

Now andreybhai, when unbanned, he came back with his original enthusiam and persistent ways and i could not understand how can a soul could be so persistent inspite of repeated warnings; then i first started deleting his irrelavant posts to show my resentment and give him a warning signal but when he still persisted then i banned him in sheer desperation. Then andreybhai immediately wrote to me again requesting to unban him and i wrote back to him saying that he will be allowed to post only in the commonroom and if he wishes to post his views on the pbk section, then he should be relevant and to the point and quote only from Murlis and Vanis(which everyone respects) and not from cds and cassettes (which only PBKs believe); andreybhai immediately agreed and so i unbanned him(long before your request) and he was able to post his views again on the forum. This is the whole story and i have been un-necessary made the villain of the whole episode, when in fact the real culprit was andreybhai's persistent attitude of irrelavant posts and his reluctance to improve and ignoring the warnings.

Let the members decide who is responsible for andreybhai's past predicament!! Is it myself or is it andreybhai himself !!!... And if in future, he persists with his original ways or his ways are unhealthy to the forum, i will not hesitate to ban him again.
So the ball is in andreybhai's court now; he has the choice to kick it out or play it well.

shivsena.

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arjun
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Re: Confusing Answers.

Post by arjun » 21 May 2009

Dear Andrey Bhai,
Om Shanti. I would request you to take the views expressed by other members into account while making posts and respect their feelings. But that does not mean that you cannot have a different opinion.

If there is mutual respect and self-restraint, there will not be any need to ban anyone.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: Confusing Answers.

Post by sachkhand » 21 May 2009

AUM Shanti.
(I do not know why I am being logged out while I type my answer and try to submit it. This has happened twice now.)
shivsena wrote:Dear sachkhand Bhai.
i just want to clarify the controversy regarding andrey Bhai (an issue which as been given undue importance and blown out of proportion).
... Let the members decide who is responsible for andreybhai's past predicament!! Is it myself or is it andreybhai himself !!!... And if in future, he persists with his original ways or his ways are unhealthy to the forum, i will not hesitate to ban him again.
Dear Shivsena,
I respect your restraint. But I personally feel that we should consider everyone as member of The GodFather's family practically. This will help us to respond with Love for them. I do not say that we should not use our intellect to distinguish between childishness, foolishness and crookedness in answers. We should use our intellect and reply accordingly. But we should consider even all such answers with Love. This too is an oppportunity to do seva. We are here to evolve from body consciousness to soul consciousness. We all are at different levels. The higher we go or the closer we go to our destiny, greater will be our Heart which can accommodate all kinds of people. Not due to pressure of someone or something. But with real Love for them.
Dry Knowledge is of no use. True Love alone can do miracles. Dhai akshar Prem ke padhe so pundit hoi. I am not telling anything new. You too know this. It is difficult to practice, but that is what we are actually trying to acheive. Love in our Heart gives Peace and Bliss. And also cleans our eyes of Knowledge and removes impurities of vices. We will get The True Knowledge then. I consider this forum as an opportunity to acheive that and help others too in acheiving it. I too might have done mistake and I humbly apologise for that, but I always try to be true to myself and express my true feelings. Because by being true I can know my mistakes and have a chance to bring change. I think when I do mistakes, I should allow others too to do mistakes and evolve from body consciousness to soul consciousness. Let us help oursleves and others in this evolution. :neutral:
Thanks.
Sanjeev.

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shivsena
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Re: Confusing Answers.

Post by shivsena » 21 May 2009

arjun wrote:Dear Andrey Bhai,
Om Shanti. I would request you to take the views expressed by other members into account while making posts and respect their feelings. But that does not mean that you cannot have a different opinion.
If there is mutual respect and self-restraint, there will not be any need to ban anyone.
Arjun
Dear arjun Bhai.
I appreciate your advice to andreybhai, but i had expected this from you much earlier, as you were also aware of andrey's irrelavent posts. Anyway better late than never.
shivsena
.

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john
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Re: Confusing Answers.

Post by john » 21 May 2009

In my experience AndreyBhai tries to be purposefully disruptive.
He has been warned and banned many times from forums.
How many chances can he have?

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Re: Confusing Answers.

Post by andrey » 21 May 2009

Dear Arjun Bhai,

It is true that we can live together with our differences of opinion, and of course with mutual respect, love etc. but why is not the admin remarking when the moral principals of good behavior are broken, but he is taking actions when different ideas arise.

I am in the initial level to express my views like the parrot so most of my posts are basic ideas from the path of knowledge. This is a BK and PBK forum, so i don't think such views are irrelevant here. It is only the one who is himself having views different to these that finds them irrelevant.

The admin should be more tolerant to other views. Was it not you that said just recently that everyone is free to express his views. Why don't you say this again. If i had to respect the feelings of shivsena i would have to stop posting. Just as in the other forum they said my English is not good, here they say my views are irrelevant to ban me.

The posts that had been deleted contained conventional teachings of the bk or pbk knowledge, expressed in non imposing manner. You can judge yourself if in the PBK forum anyone should be restricted to quote from the vcds that contain our core beliefs.

I believe that in order to avoid the same situation as in the Bkinfo forum, the admin should well know his place as server to the forum and their participants , allowing their free discussion to go on and not act as an eye from above, nor instill fear of being banned or forewarn, furthermore if it is due to the difference of ideology. We are here many types of people so it will be a challenge if we could interact together instead of isolating one another. Although shivsena Bhai shares view very opposite to the PBk teachings no PBK or group of PBKs did not even point that he should be suspended from the PBK forum.

It is true the story shivsena narrates, but it is not true that:
if he wishes to post his views on the PBK section, then he should be relevant and to the point and quote only from Murlis and Vanis(which everyone respects) and not from cds and cassettes (which only PBKs believe);
I was just asked to not post in the PBK section against the thread of banning. Although i suspected but only soon i realized that in fact technically i can post, so i congratulate shivsena that when i did so he did not remark.

It is also true that i had send letters not only to shivsena Bhai, but to other forum members when i was banned from the BKinfo, that was because i believed that anyone would be able to overcome the personal feelings and act out of the sense of community, accepting me as just another member, so i would expect that this can happen here.

Dear John Bhai,
Please, look at your behavior. You are the one to jump like a dog and bark and put oil in the fire when I am in weak position.

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Re: Confusing Answers.

Post by bansy » 21 May 2009

arjun wrote:If there is mutual respect and self-restraint, there will not be any need to ban anyone.
This is the valid point.
However,saying that, often is the case the person who has the ability to ban/unban someone is also an active member of the forum,. The ownership, adminstrator, and moderator abilities of the forum (and thus control of all rights of all members) are under the hands and discretion of such a person(s), who himself/herself has own feelings and prejudices and judgements equally as every other member also has. So the burden of responsibility is in the hands of possibly a single forumowner/admin/moderator, though usually it doesn't even come down to the level of moderator. It is a powerful position but whilst it is respected by all, that respect also needs to be earnt as easily as it can be lost (example as in the case of brahmakumaris.info).

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john
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Re: Confusing Answers.

Post by john » 21 May 2009

andrey wrote:
Dear John Bhai,
Please, look at your behavior. You are the one to jump like a dog and bark and put oil in the fire when I am in weak position.
You are in this position through your own making.
When someone wont listen to reason, as in your case, what options are left?

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arjun
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Re: Confusing Answers.

Post by arjun » 22 May 2009

shivsena wrote:I appreciate your advice to andreybhai, but i had expected this from you much earlier, as you were also aware of andrey's irrelavent posts. Anyway better late than never.
It is not true that I have not advised him in the past. I have done that on the forum as well as through email. It is also not true that all the posts made by Andrey Bhai are irrelevant. I have no objection as long as he talks about bk/pbk knowledge. It is only when he makes personal remarks against anyone that I don't agree. This applies to other members as well.
andrey wrote:The admin should be more tolerant to other views. Was it not you that said just recently that everyone is free to express his views. Why don't you say this again. If i had to respect the feelings of shivsena i would have to stop posting. Just as in the other forum they said my English is not good, here they say my views are irrelevant to ban me.
You are free to express your views too. And respecting the feelings does not mean that you cannot have different views. And I have already said that in my last post.
andrey wrote:The posts that had been deleted contained conventional teachings of the BK or PBK knowledge, expressed in non imposing manner. You can judge yourself if in the PBK forum anyone should be restricted to quote from the VCD* that contain our core beliefs.
I agree that nobody should be restricted to quote from the VCDs. And Shivsena Bhai has himself quoted extensively from VCDs and Disc.CDs whenever he found them helpful to prove his point. So, he has no moral ground to ask other members to desist from quoting VCDs/Disc.CDs.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: Confusing Answers.

Post by shivsena » 22 May 2009

arjun wrote:
I agree that nobody should be restricted to quote from the VCD*. And Shivsena Bhai has himself quoted extensively from VCD* and Disc.CDs whenever he found them helpful to prove his point. So, he has no moral ground to ask other members to desist from quoting VCD*/Disc.CDs.Arjun
Dear arjun Bhai.

I quote from vcds and from teachings of advance knoweldge to compare and prove that teachings of advance knowledge are opposite of what is said in Murlis and Vanis; i firmly believe that advance knowledge and vcds are untruth (Krishna ki jhooti Gita) so comparison from Murlis and Vanis becomes necessary. But andrey Bhai has never quoted any Murli date or point, but only keeps on repeating what is said in vcds(which are not the truth and accepted by everyone). This is the difference; so it is not fair to compare my posts with andrey's post and where is the question of morality or not creeping in this issue !!!

shivsena.

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arjun
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Re: Confusing Answers.

Post by arjun » 22 May 2009

shivsena wrote: I quote from VCD* and from teachings of advance knoweldge to compare and prove that teachings of Advanced Knowledge are opposite of what is said in Murlis and Vanis; i firmly believe that Advanced Knowledge and VCD* are untruth (Krishna ki jhooti Gita) so comparison from Murlis and Vanis becomes necessary. But andrey Bhai has never quoted any Murli date or point, but only keeps on repeating what is said in VCD*(which are not the truth and accepted by everyone). This is the difference; so it is not fair to compare my posts with andrey's post and where is the question of morality or not creeping in this issue !!!
But this is a PBK Section and if you restrict PBKs from quoting VCDs or Disc.CDs in the PBK Section, then where is the freedom of expression?

Therefore, I feel that PBKs should be allowed the freedom to quote from VCDs or Disc.CDs, but it should of course be relevant to the subject.

And I think we should end the discussion on Andrey Bhai here. Instead of discussing knowledge we are just discussing each other's character. This will not take us anywhere. Om Shanti.

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Re: Confusing Answers.

Post by sachkhand » 22 May 2009

AUM Shanti.
john wrote:When someone wont listen to reason, as in your case, what options are left?
Just do not give attention and importance to such replies.
And I think moderators can delete stupid irrelevant replies of anyone if they are just venting out and not of any importance to the subject of the thread. This is just my opinion.
Thanks.
Sanjeev.

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Re: Confusing Answers.

Post by shivsena » 22 May 2009

arjun wrote:
And I think we should end the discussion on Andrey Bhai here. Instead of discussing knowledge we are just discussing each other's character. This will not take us anywhere. Om Shanti.
yes--andrey episode is past tense and it should be given a decent burial and best forgotten.
Anyway, andrey will not be disturbing us anymore.
shivsena.

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Re: Confusing Answers.

Post by arjun » 23 May 2009

shivsena wrote:Anyway, andrey will not be disturbing us anymore.
Does it mean he has been banned once again?

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Re: Confusing Answers.

Post by shivsena » 25 May 2009

arjun wrote:
Does it mean he has been banned once again?
Yes---anyone who calls another brother a dog, does not deserve to be on any forum.
I thought he would come back with some repentance and mend his ways, but i see that he has no regrets of what has happened in past and has shown no intention to improve in future; so i think that this forum will be a better and healthy place without andrey.

shivsena.

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