by arjun on date: 16 Aug 2006
AUM Shanti.arjun wrote:Brother, I have received the Murli points from nimit Sisters vide email no. 7037/06, which prove that ShivBaba and Shiv are different and that the name Shivabab is based on a body, while the name Shiv is only for the incorporeal point of light.
1. "ShivBaba naam shareer par padtaa hai. Parantu Parmaatma ka Shiv hee naam hai."
"ShivBaba name is based on the body. But the name of Supreme Soul is Shiv only." – Sakar Murli dated 15.3.96
2. "Is srishti par koi bhi cheez sadaa kaayam hai nahee. Sadaa kaayam ek ShivBaba hee hai. Baaki toh sab ko neechey hee aana hai."
"Nothing is permanent in this world. It is ShivBaba alone who is permanent. All the remaining souls have to experience downfall." – Sakar Murli dated 11.1.95
3. "Shiv arthaat bindi."
"Shiv means point." – Sakar Murli dated 21.2.93
In the above quote, please read the Murli point 2. In that it is clearly indicated that ShivBaba alone is permanent in this world and also ShivBaba never experience downfall. ShivBaba never experience downfall is clearly indicated because it is said that except ShivBaba (Who is the only permanent soul in this world) all the remaining souls of this world experience downfall.
Note: The above Murli point is provided by a responsible PBK who is in close contact with AIVV sisters and also Virendra Dev Dixit and so I think there needs to be no doubt about the Murli point and it’s truthfulness.
The question that arises now is, does ShivBaba mentioned here not the same as Supreme Soul Shiv i.e., Shiv Bap?
I think, no. Because, although Shiv Bap never experience downfall, still He is not permanent in this world i.e., He is a Special Guest of this world in The Confluence Age only. And then returns back to Paramdham. And amongst the souls of this world who take corporeal form, except ShivBaba all the remaining souls of this world experience downfall i.e., in a way get perished in body consciousness.
I think my views are correct. What do you think?
Now read the answer given to question No. 26 in the following quote: (It is to be noted that the answers are given directly by Virendra Dev Dixit)
In PBK group, Thread: Q and A with Baba, Page 2.
Virendra Dev Dixit has stated that ShivBaba does experience downfall (although not by being adulterous i.e., vyabhichari but due to sex-lust). Someone might say that in the above question it is asked about Ram and not about ShivBaba. True. But even in question No:25 the question is asked about Ram, but the answer given by Virendra Dev Dixit considers Ram as ShivBaba and answers accordingly.arjun wrote:Om Shanti. Surya Bhai had asked some questions on 26th June, 2006 for which I have received replies from Baba vide email no.6075/06. The same are produced below for the kind information of members.
Prashna No.25: Kya chakra may Shiv aur Ram kabhi alag hotey hain? Arthaat kya Ram kabhi ham jaisey saadharan vyakti banta hai, apni aatma ke saath akela?
Uttar: ShivBap & ShivBaba 5000 varsh kay liye alag ho jaatey hain.
Prashna No.26: Tretayug ke pashchaat, kya Ram kabhi vikaari banta hai? Ya kya vah sampoorna drama may ever-pure hai?
Uttar: Haanji , girta hai , lekin vikaar alag baat, vyabhichari alag baat.
Question No.25: Do Shiv and Ram ever get separate during The Cycle? Meaning does Ram ever becomes a simple person like us, alone with his own soul?
Ans: Father Shiv and ShivBaba get separated for 5000 years.
Qustion No.26: After Silver Age, does Ram ever fall into lust? Or is he ever pure in the entire drama?
Ans: yes, he does experience downfall, but sex-lust is a different matter and becoming adulterous is a different matter.
Now the important question that arises is,
Does ShivBaba experience downfall? and
Regarding such an important point of knowledge whether Murli is correct or the explanation given by Virendra Dev Dixit is correct?
Everyone has to decide themselves.
And a very surprising and funny thing about this issue is that although this point was discussed in August 2006, no one noticed such a grave mistake. Although not everyone read all the posts, atleast the person who has posted both these replies and those who have participated in the thread should have noticed this. I was reading this thread (Q and A with Baba), and I found this confusing, and so have started this new thread.
And also another important question arising from the answers given by Virendra Dev Dixit to question No:25 is that Virendra Dev Dixit says that ShivBaba (i.e., Ram according to him) and Father Shiv get separated for 5000 years. But according to Murlis the whole cycle is of 5000 years of which Confluence Age is the last age which is atleast not less than 10 years. So according to Virendra Dev Dixit's answer does Father Shiv just comes for a second and goes back to Paramdham after meeting ShivBaba? Has Father Shiv (ShivBap) not yet come to this world? If so, then who is taking care of this Gyaan Yagnya in this Confluence Age since it's beginning, is it ShivBaba ( i.e., Ram according to Virendra Dev Dixit)?
I think the above issue is also confusing and need further clarifications.