Is Virendra Dev Dixit not aware of Supreme Soul Shiv?

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Re: Is Veerendra Dev Dixit not aware of Supreme Soul Shiv?

Post by pbkindiana » 11 May 2009

Dear sachkhand Bhai,

You say that if Shiv enters someone then the Chariot soul has the power of Purity and later you contradict the faith of PBKs that Shiv is in Veerendra Dev Dixit, by saying that Veerendra Dev Dixit still does not have the power of Purity.
What I am trying to indicate is that when Shiv enters a Chariot, then that Chariot will emulate Shiv's 100% incorporeal stage. When Baba Dixit has achieved to emulate Shiv's 100% incorporeal stage, then he imbibes that power and purity which will make the world to bow down to him.

Although I do not agree your arguements, I want to ask you what do you think? Is Shiv in Veerendra Dev Dixit and is the explanation given by him is actually given by Shiv?
Yes, Shiv is in Baba Dixit and the explanation is not given by Shiv but by Baba Dixit and the soul of Brahma Dada Lekraj interferes. As it is said in the Murlis "I do not churn but this Father churns the ocean of knowledge and relates to you. Baba churns the ocean of knowledge in the morning."
If you accept that Shiv has entered Veerendra Dev Dixit, your reasons contradict your conclusion that Shiv has entered Veerendra Dev Dixit.
One should have the understanding that when Shiv enters a Chariot, Shiv will make that charito equal to HIM. When that Chariot has become equal to Shiv, then only true knowledge will be narrated. Moreover only a 100% nirakari stage can speak true Gita. I am trying to expalin to you that Baba Dixit will never say that Shiv is in him because he still hasn't become = to shiv.

When Shiv is not in him then why Veerendra Dev Dixit says that Shiv is giving explanation through him. He could have said that he is the soul who will play the part of Prajapita in future when Shiv enters in him.
Shiv has already entered in Baba Dixit and Baba Dixit will never say that Shiv is explaining through him. Till the soul of Brahma Dada Lekraj is in him, Baba Dixit can never play the part of Prajapita.
Why do you want to tell a simple fact with so much sophistication and roud about. The simple statement would be Shiv is not in Veerendra Dev Dixit or Shiv has not entered Veerendra Dev Dixit till now but will enter in future.
Only a sophisticated mind will not have the awareness of simplicity. The fact is Shiv has already entered in him and Baba Dixit is making efforts to emulate Shiv 100% nirakari stage. When he has already attained the 100% nirakari stage, then both of their stages merge and Shiv-Shankar role commences.

Om Shanti -- indie.

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Re: Is Veerendra Dev Dixit not aware of Supreme Soul Shiv?

Post by shivsena » 11 May 2009

pbkindiana wrote: The fact is Shiv has already entered in him and Baba Dixit is making efforts to emulate Shiv 100% nirakari stage. When he has already attained the 100% nirakari stage, then both of their stages merge and Shiv-Shankar role commences.Om Shanti -- indie.
Dear indiana.

Since we both agree that the role of shiv-Shankar will commence when Ram=shiv and true Gita will be narrated in future, then please specify what is the role of Baba Dixit at present and what will you call advance knowledge.

shivsena.

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Re: Is Veerendra Dev Dixit not aware of Supreme Soul Shiv?

Post by mbbhat » 12 May 2009

mbbhat asked:- Did Brahma Baba had this expectation? If not, what is the use of this Murli point here?
Arjun wrote:- I think yes. That is why he named the institution initially as Brahmakumari Ishwariya Vishwa Vidyalaya. The word Prajapita was added many years later. Moreover, different kinds of Bhakti was witnessed even when Brahma Baba was alive although Murlis prohibited BKs from doing Bhakti in subtle or gross form.
---

Thank You for admiring, criticizing Brahma Baba or speaking truth what you feel.

Now here we are discussing about Mr. Dixit. Do you think Mr. Dixit has this expectation? If not, then what is the use of the Murli point here?

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Re: Is Veerendra Dev Dixit not aware of Supreme Soul Shiv?

Post by arjun » 12 May 2009

Do you think Mr. Dixit has this expectation?
No. And its proof is that despite 33 years of the existence of PBKs, he has never allowed his photograph to be displayed anywhere in the AIVV (gitapathshalas or mini-Madhubans or the homes of PBKs or in the literature). Neither has he allowed any PBK to take his photograph nor has he allowed himself to be photographed with any PBK, whereas Brahma Baba allowed himself to be photographed with BKs (despite ShivBaba directing against this in the Murlis repeatedly) and also allowed BKs to keep his photograph (although he must have corrected them from time to time by telling that it is not proper to keep his photographs). Similarly, Brahma Baba allowed Bhog to be offered to ShivBaba like in the path of worship.

By writing the above, I am not criticizing Brahma Baba. It was his role in the drama. ShivBaba had to play the mother's role through him. So, that part was lenient. But the Father's part is comparatively strict.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: Is Veerendra Dev Dixit not aware of Supreme Soul Shiv?

Post by mbbhat » 12 May 2009

arjun wrote: 1)No. And its proof is that ... to be photographed with any PBK, whereas Brahma Baba allowed himself to be photographed with BKs (despite ShivBaba directing against this in the Murlis repeatedly) and also allowed BKs to keep his photograph (although he must have corrected them from time to time by telling that it is not proper to keep his photographs). 2)Similarly, Brahma Baba allowed Bhog to be offered to ShivBaba like in the path of worship.
1)Brahma Baba had never said anybody to remember his body. But Mr. Dixit says his body should also to be remembered. You may be knowing a Murli point- In the path of Gyan, there is no value to body, whereas in the path of Bhakti, people give value to body(something like this. I will mention when I get it. If you have, please mention).

Many Murli points say-

Do not remember any body.
Worship of body= Bhootpooja,
Sakar ki Yaad nishpal hai= remembrance of Sakar is useless/futile.

But remembrance of Sakar is a part of effort in PBKs. Which is more attachment? Keeping photo of a person or remembering that person? So how can you say that PBKs'remembrance is not Bhaktimarg?.

2)SM 31-7-81(3):- Srinath ke mandir may srinath ki Yaad may baith)te hain. Bhog lagta hai. Hai to paththar ki murti na. Bhog bhi kisko lagana chahiye? Adhikari to ek hi ShivBaba hai. Sarv ka sadgatidata, patit_pavan vah hai. Baap kahte hain main Bhog sweekaar nahin karta hun. Mere oopar paani chadhate ho. Bhog lagate ho. paani kyon chadhaate ho? Main to niraakaar abhoktaa hun. Meri kyaa poojaa karte ho? Mere aage Bhog rakhenge. Lekin bhakton ne Bhog lagaya unhon_ne hi bantkar khaayaa. Tum jaante ho ShivBaba ko Bhog to zaroor lagaanaa hai. Phir baantkar tum khaate ho. Yah jaise kiskaa regard rakhna hai. Hum ShivBaba ko Bhog lagate hain. ShivBaba ka bhandara hai na. Jiska bhandaaraa hai usko Bhog zaroor lagana padey. Bhal tum Bhog lagate ho. Khaate bhi tum bachche hi ho. Jinhon_ne Bhog lagaya baantkar khaya. Yah(Brahma) khaata hai. Main nahin khaataa hun. Mukh hi kaam may laataa hun.

= In temple of srinath, (devotees) sit in remembrance of Srinath. Bhog is offered. It is statue of stone. is it not? To whom should even Bhog should be offered? Authority is one ShivBaba only. He is benefactor of all, Purifier. Father says, I do not accept(enjoy) Bhog. You put water on me, offer Bhog. Why do you put/pour water? I am incorporeal and abhokta(above pleasure and pain). What pooja you do of me? (devotees) put Bhog in front of me; But devotess put Bhog and they only distribute and eat. You know that (you) should definitely offer Bhog to ShivBaba. Then you distribute and eat. This is like keeping regard of someone- We offer Bhog to ShivBaba. It is ShivBaba's bhandaar. Is it not? It is essential/necessary to offer Bhog to one whose bhandar it is. You offer Bhog. You children only eat. Those who offered Bhog, they distributed and ate. This (Brahma ) eats. I do not eat....

Is not ShivBaba directing to offer to Bhog?

Do you know a Murli point- "Those are thieves who eat without offering Bhog"

3)Please notice the word main(I) here. Is this direct speech or indirect speech?


4)I think you have said that receipts/acknowledgement are issued to those who do money seva in PBK family. Is issuing receipts not Bhaktimarg? Register is kept in every AIVV(of course in BKWSU also). Is not this Bhaktimarg? Is not writing chart Bhaktimarg?

5)I would like to know your comment- Is putting effort Bhaktimarg or gyanmarg? Or is it common to both?
mbbhat asked:- Now here we are discussing about Mr. Dixit. Do you think Mr. Dixit has this expectation? If not, then what is the use of the Murli point here?
6)I did not recieve your answer to the second question. That is- Baba said in the Murli that those Kaliyugi Gurus who call themselves as 108 Jagadgurus and make others worship them are Hiranyakashyaps. if Mr. Dixit had not expectation then what is the use of that Murli point here?

7)Since you believe at least to some extent that Brahma baba had expectation, do you say Hiranyakashyap title can be given to Brahma baba? If yes, may I know th percentage or rank in that class? That is- is Brahma Baba Hiranyakashyap number one, Hiranyakashyap number two, etc?

8)SM 28-7-81(2):- Baap hi kahte hain 5000 varsh pahle bhi main is sharir may aayaa thaa, in dwara tumhen samjhaya thaa. Ab phir kahta hun aatma abhimaani bano. -139-

= Father only says 5000 years also I had come in this body, had taught/explained to you. Now I say again- Become soul conscious.

Is this KAHTA HUN direct speech or indirect speech?

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Re: Is Veerendra Dev Dixit not aware of Supreme Soul Shiv?

Post by arjun » 13 May 2009

mbbhat wrote:1)Brahma Baba had never said anybody to remember his body. But Mr. Dixit says his body should also to be remembered. You may be knowing a Murli point- In the path of Gyan, there is no value to body, whereas in the path of Bhakti, people give value to body(something like this. I will mention when I get it. If you have, please mention).

Many Murli points say-

Do not remember any body.
Worship of body= Bhootpooja,
Sakar ki Yaad nishpal hai= remembrance of Sakar is useless/futile.

But remembrance of Sakar is a part of effort in PBKs. Which is more attachment? Keeping photo of a person or remembering that person? So how can you say that PBKs'remembrance is not Bhaktimarg?.
This has been discussed a hundred times on this forum. I am sorry I cannot repeat the same thing again and again. I have quoted several Murli points in the concerned thread in this Section.
Is not ShivBaba directing to offer to Bhog?
Do you know a Murli point- "Those are thieves who eat without offering Bhog"
We should offer Bhog. But it does not mean making a show of it like the path of worship. It is enough if we cook in Baba's remembrance and eat in Baba's remembrance.
3)Please notice the word main(I) here. Is this direct speech or indirect speech?
It must have been preceded somewhere in the Murli by 'ShivBaba says', 'The Father says', etc. There may be hundreds of isolated sentences like this in various Murlis. But that does not mean that the entire Murli is in a direct speech.

Anyway it is upto you to infer whatever you want. We are not forcing you to accept our view. It is no use arguing endlessly on the same topic.
4)I think you have said that receipts/acknowledgement are issued to those who do money seva in PBK family. Is issuing receipts not Bhaktimarg? Register is kept in every AIVV(of course in BKWSU also). Is not this Bhaktimarg? Is not writing chart Bhaktimarg?
No.
5)I would like to know your comment- Is putting effort Bhaktimarg or gyanmarg?
Making special efforts for the progress of the soul is called purusharth and real purusharth is made only in the path of knowledge, because there is no real knowledge of the soul and the Supreme Soul in the path of worship.
6)I did not recieve your answer to the second question. That is- Baba said in the Murli that those Kaliyugi Gurus who call themselves as 108 Jagadgurus and make others worship them are Hiranyakashyaps. if Mr. Dixit had not expectation then what is the use of that Murli point here?
It is applicable to the BK world where there are numerous gurus. See the last page of the latest Purity magazine if you want proof.
7)Since you believe at least to some extent that Brahma Baba had expectation, do you say Hiranyakashyap title can be given to Brahma Baba? If yes, may I know th percentage or rank in that class? That is- is Brahma Baba Hiranyakashyap number one, Hiranyakashyap number two, etc?
I cannot specify any percentage, but yes he acted like Hiranyakashyap to some extent as per advanced knowledge.

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Re: Is Veerendra Dev Dixit not aware of Supreme Soul Shiv?

Post by mbbhat » 13 May 2009

arjun wrote:There may be hundreds of isolated sentences like this in various Murlis. But that does not mean that the entire Murli is in a direct speech.
Dear Soul,
I also mean the same. Most of the sentences are indirect speech. Some are there in direct speech. But your writings appeared as if Baba does not speak in direct speech at all.

Thank you for being with me.

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Re: Is Veerendra Dev Dixit not aware of Supreme Soul Shiv?

Post by arjun » 13 May 2009

mbbhat wrote:Dear Soul,
I also mean the same. Most of the sentences are indirect speech. Some are there in direct speech. But your writings appeared as if Baba does not speak in direct speech at all.

Thank you for being with me.
No, it does not mean that just because some sentences are in direct speech, they have been spoken by ShivBaba in direct speech. They are definitely preceded somewhere by indirect speech, like 'the Father says' , 'Baba says' etc. So, on the whole the entire Murli is in an indirect speech.

So, sorry, I am not with you on this issue. :sad:

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Re: Is Veerendra Dev Dixit not aware of Supreme Soul Shiv?

Post by shivsena » 13 May 2009

arjun wrote: No, it does not mean that just because some sentences are in direct speech, they have been spoken by ShivBaba in direct speech. They are definitely preceded somewhere by indirect speech, like 'the Father says' , 'Baba says' etc. So, on the whole the entire Murli is in an indirect speech.
So, sorry, I am not with you on this issue. :sad:
I fully agree with arjun Bhai that the whole Murli is an indirect speech in third person, describing the future Sangamyugi drama and it is directed to and will be understood only by potential 108 (Gyani souls) only.

Also the avaykt Vanis are also in third person for potential 108 souls who will attain the Bap-samaan avaykt stage numberwise.

shivsena.

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Re: Is Veerendra Dev Dixit not aware of Supreme Soul Shiv?

Post by arjun » 13 May 2009

shivsena wrote:I fully agree with arjun Bhai
Thank God you agree with us at least on one point. :D

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Re: Is Veerendra Dev Dixit not aware of Supreme Soul Shiv?

Post by bansy » 13 May 2009

indirect speech in third person
Yes. But that seems to be a predicament. I will give an analogy... when you take a daily walk outdoors, can you feel the warmth of the sun (okay sometimes it gets a bit hot but that's not the issue here) and have the full ray of the sun direct, or do you always have an umbrella to shield from the natural sun. And when it starts to rain, can you feel the rain falling on your cheeks or do you still wish to use the same umbrella to shield yourself from both natural weathers.

Can you not face both sun and rain without any need to protection ? Or is there atttachment to the umbrella ? Look outside, does the grass and the trees and the street and the rivers andthe mountains need any protection ?

So why does God need to be indirect ? When light can shine on your face (direct waves) , why do you need a mirror to reflect it or have some filter umbrella (indirect waves) ? It is the body that needs protection, but does the soul itself need that with God ?

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Re: Is Veerendra Dev Dixit not aware of Supreme Soul Shiv?

Post by shivsena » 14 May 2009

bansy wrote: So why does God need to be indirect ?
Dear bansy.

i feel that God Shiva or whoever has recited the Murlis needs to be indirect to make the souls numberwise; if God revealed everything directly then the word numberwise cannot be uttered in Murlis repeatedly; also truth may be so bitter and hard to digest that not everyone may be able to understand and digest it; also if there is no mystery in Godly knowledge then there would be no fun, which is generally associated with solving a mystery; also if knowledge was direct then there would not have been 2 groups ie. BKs and PBKs; so i think that the whole Godly knowledge is revealed as Murli mahavakyas in the form of a riddle(puzzle) to make souls numberwise and only those souls who read them repeatedly and churn them will be able to understand the secrets(guhia baat) hidden in Murli mahavakyas.

shivsena.

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Re: Is Veerendra Dev Dixit not aware of Supreme Soul Shiv?

Post by sachkhand » 14 May 2009

AUM Shanti.
pbkindiana wrote: Baba Dixit will never say that Shiv is explaining through him. ... Shiv is in Baba Dixit and the explanation is not given by Shiv but by Baba Dixit and the soul of Brahma Dada Lekraj interferes. As it is said in the Murlis "I do not churn but this Father churns the ocean of knowledge and relates to you. Baba churns the ocean of knowledge in the morning."
Following is an answer given by Virendra Dev Dixit.
In the thread: Q and A with Baba, page 1, arjun wrote:
Q.No.16. Which among the following is correct about the answers that are received from Shiv?
a) The answer is given by Shiv and the answer is spoken through the mouth of the corporeal medium.
b) The answer is given by the corporeal medium, who has the best communication with Shiv.
c) The answer is given by the corporeal medium or Shiv and we cannot distinguish because ShivBaba comes and goes without anyone being able to discern.
d) It doesn't matter who gives the answer because Shiv and his corporeal medium are the same entity
Ans: It is the soul of Shiv only who gives the answer through the corporeal body.
Dear indiana, please decide whether you are correct or Virendra Dev Dixit.
pbkindiana wrote: What I am trying to indicate is that when Shiv enters a Chariot, then that
Chariot will emulate Shiv's 100% incorporeal stage. When Baba Dixit has achieved to emulate Shiv's 100% incorporeal stage, then he imbibes that power and purity which will make the world to bow down to him.
Why just Virendra Dev Dixit, this can be applied to any child. In Murlis it is said that ShivBaba enters in any child to uplift someone.
pbkindiana wrote: One should have the understanding that when Shiv enters a Chariot, Shiv will
make that charito equal to HIM. When that Chariot has become equal to Shiv, then only true knowledge will be narrated. Moreover only a 100% nirakari stage can speak true Gita. I am trying to expalin to you that Baba Dixit will never say that Shiv is in him because he still hasn't become = to Shiv.
I think your answer shows that you are just repeating what is told to you without understanding it. It is better you first do your homework properly and get clarity.
pbkindiana wrote: Only a sophisticated mind will not have the awareness of simplicity.
Very true. :D
Thanks.
Sanjeev.

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Re: Is Veerendra Dev Dixit not aware of Supreme Soul Shiv?

Post by sachkhand » 14 May 2009

AUM Shanti.
arjun wrote: And its proof is that despite 33 years of the existence of PBKs, he has never allowed his photograph to be displayed anywhere in the AIVV (gitapathshalas or mini-Madhubans or the homes of PBKs or in the literature). Neither has he allowed any PBK to take his photograph nor has he allowed himself to be photographed with any PBK, ...
VCDs are made. Drishti VCD is made just to do Yoga. It is clearly and stressingly said that remember Shiv only in Virendra Dev Dixit's body. Whereas some PBKs accept that Virendra Dev Dixit is still purusharthi and not complete.
Once I and Virendra Dev Dixit were standing in the space (of the Kampil's old building) after getting in the main gate where there were steps to go up. A mata (female PBK) came from upstairs and called Virendra Dev Dixit. Virendra Dev Dixit turned to me and said see, who is God. (I do not remember the exact words). I think, his words meant to show me that Gopis do service of Gopal. I was a bit confused.
Thanks.
Sanjeev.

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Re: Is Veerendra Dev Dixit not aware of Supreme Soul Shiv?

Post by arjun » 14 May 2009

Ans: It is the soul of Shiv only who gives the answer through the corporeal body.
But Baba Virendra Dev Dixit has not said that he is the corporeal body through whom Shiv gives the answer.
VCD* are made. Drishti VCD* is made just to do Yoga. It is clearly and stressingly said that remember Shiv only in Veerendra Dev Dixit's body. Whereas some PBKs accept that Veerendra Dev Dixit is still purusharthi and not complete.
But the recording of Murli VCDs is in accordance with Sakar Murlis. This cannot be equated with photographs of the corporeal medium with the Brahmin children.

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