The Tree Without The Seed

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The Tree Without The Seed

Post by new knowledge » 22 Sep 2007

Dear PBK brothers & sisters, advance knowledge considers the soul of Ram as the seed of the human Kalpa Tree. Advance knowledge also believe that each & every soul, including to that of Ram, goes to Paramdham (the Incorporeal World). Though Ram plays his role during the whole cycle of the World Drama, he also goes to Paramdham for at least for few seconds at the end of the Confluence Age. Now I wish to churn about that situation created at that time interval when the soul of Ram goes to Paramdham. What happens to the World Drama at that time interval (of few seconds)?

We know that the seed of any tree plays its active role not only at the time of plantation of that tree, but also during the whole life period of that tree to sustain that tree. In other words, the seed should have to play its active role as long as that tree exists. Similarly, as the soul of Ram is supposed to be the seed of the Kalpa Tree, then what happens at that time interval When he goes to Paramdham, i.e, how could the Kalpa Tree be sustained without its seed during that time interval (of few seconds)???

Is there any explaination in CDs & VCDs of Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit, about that critical situation when the soul of Ram goes to Paramdham? At that time interval, who sustains the World Drama? What's the population during that interval?

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Re: The Tree Without The Seed

Post by fluffy bunny » 22 Sep 2007

new knowledge wrote:We know that the seed of any tree plays its active role not only at the time of plantation of that tree, but also during the whole life period of that tree to sustain that tree.
No they do not.

Have you ever read a book on biology about how trees work? Some trees can continue to grow even when the original trunk dies, some put down roots from branches. Its all just mythology, it can be made up to suit.

In theory, time does not exist in Paramdham. Time is relative a measurement of the material universe. No materiality, no time. An eternity in Paramdham could just be an instantaneous blip down here. Why "a few seconds"?

Come on, new k, you are an intelligent person ... please just state your point rather than ask tortuous questions.

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Post by new knowledge » 22 Sep 2007

Thanks my bro ex-l for correction. I agree with you. But I wish to know about that situation when the soul of Ram (supposed by PBKs) goes to Paramdham.
  • 1) Then who sustains the World Drama?
    2) What's the population of human souls at that period?
    3) For how many period (in seconds, hours or days) soul of Ram goes to Paramdham.
I agree with you that the Paramdham is timeless world, where there is no any thought, any personality trait. In Paramdham, soul live in full consciousness with complete peace & bliss. Even they don't have the awareness of each other. But here I am going to churn about journey of Ram to Paramdham as considered by PBKs.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 22 Sep 2007

Why does it need anyone to sustain it? Why cant it be sustained from another world?

An infinite world, by definition is everywhere. As a critical mathematician, you will know, we cant have an "Infinite World" minus a little material world. So the two must co-exist on different realms/wavelengths.

Of course, I am not a PBK and so I cannot answer for them. I have often said it would be helpful to have one complete written resources where all this is documented and I am as uncomfortable with placing responsibility on Arjun's shoulders as I am with all the bad blood between conflicting sects. It strikes me you know as much as they know and are just trying t de-stablise their faith (... which might be the right or wrong thing to do). I don't know.

Personally, I accept it is all faith, unprovable and so utterly pointless nitpicking over. Concrete stuff like the documented history, the revisionism etc hold my interest.

The moon might be made of cheese ... how am I ever going to know?

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Post by arjun » 22 Sep 2007

We know that the seed of any tree plays its active role not only at the time of plantation of that tree, but also during the whole life period of that tree to sustain that tree. In other words, the seed should have to play its active role as long as that tree exists. Similarly, as the soul of Ram is supposed to be the seed of the Kalpa Tree, then what happens at that time interval When he goes to Paramdham, i.e, how could the Kalpa Tree be sustained without its seed during that time interval (of few seconds)???

Is there any explaination in CDs & VCDs of Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit, about that critical situation when the soul of Ram goes to Paramdham? At that time interval, who sustains the World Drama? What's the population during that interval?
Dear brother,

Om Shanti. As far as I know all the souls of this world would be in the Soul World at the time when Ram's soul goes to the Soul World and returns to this world before everyone else. So, there is no question of the human tree being in the corporeal world during those few seconds.

So, the question of sustaining that tree in the corporeal world does not arise at all.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: The Tree Without The Seed

Post by button slammer » 22 Sep 2007

new knowledge wrote:Though Ram plays his role during the whole cycle of the World Drama, he also goes to Paramdham for at least for few seconds at the end of the Confluence Age ... When he goes to Paramdham, i.e, how could the Kalpa Tree be sustained without its seed during that time interval (of few seconds)???
Just as a director gives the order to the actors to 'Take time out', or to 'take five' the director also 'takes five' The stage is exited but the entire drama remains in the intellect of the director. The director returns from his break 'OK, Action!'..the drama continues
new world wrote: Thus Rambap goes to Supreme Home (merges/pauses his role) for one & only one point of time when the Confluence Age of the old Kalpa ends & Golden Age of the new Kalpa starts.
In terms of calculus - a branch of mathematics, 'a point of time' is infinitesimal & it cannot be defined & measured. And if an event occurs for only one point of time, then its occurence & non-occurence at that point of time becomes equivalent. So though it's correct to say that Ram goes to Supreme Home (merges his role) for point of time, it's also correct to say that he doesn't go to Supreme Home at that point of time. Thus for him going to Supreme Home is equivalent to not going to Supreme Home. In other words, though Rambap goes to Supreme Home or merges/pauses his role for only one point of time, his role is eternal in the world drama.

For the very last point of Kalpa Rambap plays his role in such a way that he feels himself in Supreme Home & his stage becomes 100% incorporeal stage at that point & he becomes RamShivbaba. Though he achieves incorporeal stage for a long time period, but he achieves complete, perfect & accurate (100%) incorporeal stage for only one point of time at the end of Kalpa.

Rambap is unique. He plays his greatest role at that very point of time of the end of Kalpa. Dear PBK Brothers & Sisters please post your opinions.
It seems a few months earlier you say one thing now you say another. Earlier you say Rambap? both merges and doesnt merge in the Soul World (according to your notions of calculus), ie 'a point of time'. Now you say the soul of Ram goes to Paramdham for a few seconds. Which is it?

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Post by new knowledge » 23 Sep 2007

Thanks my bro slammer for quoting here my previous article. In that article, I stated about 'just one point of time' & here I've quoted 'few seconds'. Sharp contrast! Okay. Here I refer 'few seconds' as believed by some BKWSU members. I also asked my PBK friend about that time period of residence of the seed soul of the Kalpa Tree (Rambap supposed by PBKs) & he replied 'for few seconds'. And I quoted the same here just to churn. Now we have 3 options of time period of the residence of the seed soul (of the Kalpa Tree) in Paramdham,
  • 1) just for one point of time,
    2) few seconds or
    3) very ... very lengthy time period believed by Vishnu Party (Ahmedabad).
I'll quote Vishnu Party point of view in the next article.

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Post by new knowledge » 23 Sep 2007

arjun wrote:As far as I know all the souls of this world would be in the Soul World at the time when Ram's soul goes to the Soul World and returns to this world before everyone else.
At that time, the World Drama is in its infancy stage & evolution of the World Kalpa Tree starts here with the creation of fhrst 12 seed souls (Jyoti-lingam) from the Supreme Father (the final seed of the World Kalpa Tree). Souls are in complete incorporeal stage with full consciousness & complete peace & bliss. Then the World Drama decends to the Casual World, the Subtle Region & finally to the Corporeal World. Thus we do not take a high jump (within absolutely no time) to the Corporeal World from the Incorporeal World. That's a very lenthy process of evolution. Similarly, we do not jump to the Incorporeal World from the Corporeal World at the time of our return journey. We have to pass through the Subtle & Casual World. And finally we (souls) get merged into the Supreme Father in the Incorporeal World. According to the rule of Aadi-so-Anth (as in the beginning so shall be at the end) is perfectly applicable to the unlimited broad drama. In the beginning, we are created through the Supreme Father (the final seed of the World Kalpa Tree) & at last we get merged in Him. This fact is equivalent to the 'big-bang theory' of the Origin of Universe, which states that the whole Universe, stars, galaxies & plannets are emerged through Nebula.
So, there is no question of the human tree being in the corporeal world during those few seconds.
Absolutely correct!!ì the World Drama does not starts & ends in the Corporeal World. The corporeal stage is one of the verious stages of the World Drama. The corporeal stage is not whole & sole of the World Drama. But I agree that as long as we do not desend to the Corporeal stage, our return journey (of upliftment) to the Incorporeal World does not start.
So, the question of sustaining that tree in the corporeal world does not arise at all.
Again you are correct. As at that time, the World Kalpa Tree is in its infancy & very first step of evolution in the incorporeal form, the question of sustaining that tree in the Corporeal World does not arise at all.

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Post by Amar » 23 Sep 2007

I think it will be more like when the sun is eclipsed by the moon, for a few seconds all the light goes out, also symbolicaly it is as if the sun is born again. In drama it should be like this, when the moon-like soul and the sun-like soul come together. Its as if it is 16 degrees celestial. In these few seconds, one age ends and another begins.

The long drama of five thousand years is made second by second. The sun and moon become equal, or that soul prajapita becomes equal to Supreme Soul and then begins descent again from the first step, first day etc.

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Post by arjun » 23 Sep 2007

new_knowledge wrote:Similarly, we do not jump to the Incorporeal World from the Corporeal World at the time of our return journey. We have to pass through the Subtle & Casual World. And finally we (souls) get merged into the Supreme Father in the Incorporeal World. According to the rule of Aadi-so-Anth (as in the beginning so shall be at the end) is perfectly applicable to the unlimited broad drama. In the beginning, we are created through the Supreme Father (the final seed of the World Kalpa Tree) & at last we get merged in Him.
Dear brother,

Om Shanti. You have borrowed the proverb of 'Adi so anth' (as the beginning, so shall be the end) from the Murlis, but you forgot that there is no mention about the merging and emerging of souls into & from the Supreme Soul in the Murlis. This is the basic principle on which the BK/PBK knowledge differs from the Hindu philosophy. It is the thoughts of the souls which merge in the thoughts of the Supreme Soul, i.e. their thoughts become equal in the end.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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A new splinter group?

Post by abrahma kumar » 23 Sep 2007

Does this thread belong here?

Sorry, i meant, is The Tree Without The Seed a splinter group?

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Re: A new splinter group?

Post by new knowledge » 24 Sep 2007

abrahma Kumar wrote:Does this thread belong here? Sorry, I meant, is The Tree Without The Seed a splinter group?
My bro abek, 'The Tree Without The Seed' is just the title of this thread & not a splinter group. The admin has shifted this thread on my request. Do you think that this is not the proper place for this thread? Okay. No problem. Then please suggest where to shift this thread?

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Post by new knowledge » 24 Sep 2007

arjun wrote:You have borrowed the proverb of 'Adi so anth' (as the beginning, so shall be the end) from the Murlis,
To refer verious quotations from different sources may be helpfull to understand any subject, including Shrimat (Godly knowledge), though these sources do not match with that subject. Similarly, according to Vishnu Party, Murlis do not perfectly match with Shrimat, even then, to clearly understand Shrimat, we refer Murli points, so that BKWSU members could easily understand it. But this does not mean that Shrimat is derived through Murlis. Also advance knowledge is not derived through Ved-Shashras, but even then advance knowledge also refers quotations from Ved-Shashas, so that those from worship cult could easily understand advance knowledge.
but you forgot that there is no mention about the merging and emerging of souls into & from the Supreme Soul in the Murlis.
I already stated so many times that Vishnu Party philosophy is not based on Murlis. Knowledge is not just the collection of words & sentences in printed format.
This is the basic principle on which the BK/PBK knowledge differs from the Hindu philosophy. It is the thoughts of the souls which merge in the thoughts of the Supreme Soul, i.e. their thoughts become equal in the end.
It's the matter of complete merging of the whole World Kalpa Tree into he Supreme Father - the Master Creator.

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Post by button slammer » 24 Sep 2007

Dear admin, New k has hi-jacked this topic from the PBK forum and had it moved to the splinter forum. I feel as New K has originally addressed his topic specifically to PBKs re:
PostPosted: 22 Sep 07 Post subject: The Tree Without The Seed
Dear PBK Brothers & Sisters, Advanced Knowledge considers the soul of Ram as the seed of the human Kalpa Tree. Advanced Knowledge also believe that each & every soul, including to that of Ram, goes to Paramdham (the Incorporeal World).
Then the topic should be replied to in the original forum. It is a subtle but significant move I feel. Personally I don't mind other groups visiting/asking questions/debating in the PBK forum. It gives the appearance that I am engaging in discussion/debate in the splinter section which was not my original intention. I would appreciate having the topic moved back to the PBK section. Thx

:evil:

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Post by new knowledge » 24 Sep 2007

Amar wrote:I think it will be more like when the sun is eclipsed by the moon, for a few seconds all the light goes out, also symbolicaly it is as if the sun is born again.
Brother, in the Incorporeal World, the Sun of Knowledge shines with His own full power of Supreme Light & Supreme Might. It's not 'light-off' situation. How could you guess that the Sun (of knowledge) is eclipsed in the Incorporeal World.

But the powers of the Supreme Father are also subject to decay due to continuous creation of souls & elements like air, fire, water etc. During long ... long process of evolution of the World Kalpa Tree, the powers of the Supreme Father get reduced as the World Drama passes from the Incorporeal World to the Casual, Subtle & finally to the Corporeal World. And in the Confluence Age, He (the Sun of Knowledge) gets eclipsed due to reduction of His powers to the maximum level & He incarnates in this Corporeal World as a corporeal Being (Bapuji Dashrath Patel) for only one birth.

Murli states that when the Sun of Knowledge gets eclipsed, He escapes Himself from that eclipse by practising the Cycle of Self-Realisation (Swa-darshan Chakra). Thus Bapuji Dashrath Patel (the Supreme Father in His own corporeal body) also has to practise the Cycle of Self-Realisation. He goes through BKs & PBKs to study Godly knowledge & to practise Swa-darshan Chakra. And on 6th January 1997, He had visions of His own divine identity.

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