Accurate remembrance

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Sach_Khand
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Re: Accurate remembrance

Post by Sach_Khand » 12 Apr 2011

arjun wrote:Om Shanti. The above Murli point applied to Brahma Baba (the temporary Chariot) when he was alive, but now it applies to the current and appointed Chariot (believed to be Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit by PBKs).
I do not think so. When it said for some soul, it is for that one soul only. If not why is ShivBaba called TrikaalDarshi?

:neutral:
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arjun
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Re: Accurate remembrance

Post by arjun » 12 Apr 2011

sachkhand wrote:I do not think so. When it said for some soul, it is for that one soul only. If not why is ShivBaba called TrikaalDarshi?
I don't think so. Had that been applicable only to one Chariot, Baba would not have used the words temporary and permanent (mukarrar) chariots in the Sakar Murlis.

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Re: Accurate remembrance

Post by Roy » 12 Apr 2011

shivsena wrote:The aim of our study is to become a-shariri (get rid of our body consciousness)...and so i do not understand how we can become a-shariri by remembering God shiv in another sharir(body)....if remembering shiv in the corporeal Chariot is supposed to be accurate rememberence, then why this has never been mentioned by avaykt brahma in any Vani....Av. Vanis always mention that we should not have any love with mitti(mud ie body of flesh and bones), and AK teaches just the reverse.
Dear Shivsena Bhai

What is the ultimate aim and object of Raj Yoga? Is it not jeevanmukti, liberation whilst alive i.e. in a living body. Thus we are to remember Father Shiv as ShivBaba(Father Shiv in Sakar), the ultimate example of jeevanmukti. Not only this, but this is the ultimate practise of relating to one another in the Golden Age, as souls in bodies. Remembrance of a soul in Paramdham(the actual world of souls far beyond this one), or a soul in a subtle body, is not practise for the ultimate goal of jeevanmukti, the state of all souls in the Golden Age. All other practises of remembrance(other than in Sakar), will only bring the achievement of mukti imo.

How can the the Golden Age and Silver Age be called Heaven, if the souls living in them are body conscious? Yet you would have it, that any relationship that has a body involved, is body consciousness! Imo, remembering a fairy in the sky is a cop out, as you cannot hack the test, of remembering the Supreme Father in His permanent Chariot; as it makes you body conscious.

"God Shiva is incorporeal; you can love(have a relationship with) Him only through a corporeal body." [1/1/77]


Roy

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Re: Accurate remembrance

Post by pbkindiana » 13 Apr 2011

shivsena wrote:
The aim of our study is to become a-shariri (get rid of our body consciousness)..
But not the body. This Godly study is to remove the body-consciousness only. Shiv is teaching us to see the soul in the body so we will stop committing more sins. Otherwise, day by day, human beings are going into degradation and started to behave like animals. From Copper Age onwards, the body is controlling the soul and we are committing mistakes, so in sangam yug Shiva is teaching us to practise soul consciousness so that the soul can control the body as it is said "the conqueror of the body is the conqueror of the world."

.
and so i do not understand how we can become a-shariri by remembering God Shiv in another sharir(body)...
By remembering Shiva in the appointed Chariot, sins are incinerated and we are able to see souls in the bodies and not the physical body.
if remembering Shiv in the corporeal Chariot is supposed to be accurate rememberence, then why this has never been mentioned by avaykt Brahma in any Vani
AV 17.10.1981 -- "Just as Father comes to perform actions by entering into a human body while remaining detached, similarly angelic souls also perform actions by entering into the body for the purpose of service."

AV 24.5.1977 -- "You the best souls receive Shrimat sitting infront of the Father, not by inspiration or by touching."

AV 21.3.1981 -- "When the Father is revealed, the very famous people(among the brahmins of Confluence Age) become great fools. Is he who cannot recognize the Father, not a great fool? This indeed being the rememberance of their idiocity,
which they performed in the entire Kalpa is repeated. They do all the wrongful deeds. Father says -- "know me" and they say "Father is non-existent" -- is it not contrary? You say Father is present and they say it is not possible
at all. As such they have expanded the organization considerably but the real thing is the beneficial meeting of the Father and the children."

AV 31.5.1977 -- "In the Confluence Age the best direct fruit is the Father himself in His revealed form meets the children. The Supreme Soul in the corporeal human form comes to meet the children."

AV 18.1.1970 -- "This corporeal form is not alone. As He is Prajapita Brahma, so His full family is there with Him."
....Av. Vanis always mention that we should not have any love with mitti(mud ie body of flesh and bones), and AK teaches just the reverse.
Not only AV teaches not to love the body, SM and AK too teaches us to practise soul-consciousness whilst in the body. AK says to practise soul consciousness as not to give sorrow to anyone. Shiva too says that "I speak to soul conscious children" and Shiva has never said that He speaks to souls only. If Shiva speaks to souls only, then where is the necessity for Him to come down to this corporeal world; Shiva can easily speaks to the souls in Paramdham.

indie.

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Re: Accurate remembrance

Post by Roy » 13 Apr 2011

pbkindiana wrote:Shiva can easily speaks to the souls in Paramdham.
Nice post Indie Bhai, although I am not sure about the accuracy of your closing statement! As we(human souls) become totally merged, into a completely dormant seed stage in Paramdham; i don't think even Father Shiv could communicate with us in this environment.

Anyway; here's a couple more Avyakt Vani points on this subject....

Seeing both the fathers, eating, drinking, walking, talking, hearing, experiencing every character, seeing the invisible in the visible through the corporeal eyes in the corporeal world, is a great luck of the Brahmin life. [Av. 3.5.84]

Father comes in the Confluence Age, stays in him for 50-60 years and transforms him. [Av. 29.11.77]


Roy

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Re: Accurate remembrance

Post by pbkindiana » 13 Apr 2011

Roy wrote:
Nice post Indie Bhai, although I am not sure about the accuracy of your closing statement! As we(human souls) become totally merged, into a completely dormant seed stage in Paramdham; i don't think even Father Shiv could communicate with us in this environment.
Dear Roy Bhai,

Shiva said in "I speak to soul-conscious children only and not to body-conscious bulls" --- so we have to practise soul consciousness in these living bodies of ours. It is not that we have to leave our bodies and then only Shiva will communicate with us. If that is the case, then it is not necessary for Shiva to come down to this corporeal world.

In AK it is said that we are doing the shooting of paradise as well as the shooting of hell. When we are in the stage of the self ie. seed-form stage or soul conscious stage, then we are doing the shooting of paradise and when we are in body consciousness, then we are doing the shooting of hell or sorrow. The living body is the perfect tool for establishing paradise and hell. Nothing works without a living body. (I must use the term 'living body', otherwise Shivsena will grab this opportunity to hammer the PBKs.)

indie.

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Re: Accurate remembrance

Post by Roy » 14 Apr 2011

pbkindiana wrote:Shiva said in "I speak to soul-conscious children only and not to body-conscious bulls" --- so we have to practise soul consciousness in these living bodies of ours. It is not that we have to leave our bodies and then only Shiva will communicate with us. If that is the case, then it is not necessary for Shiva to come down to this corporeal world.In AK it is said that we are doing the shooting of paradise as well as the shooting of hell. When we are in the stage of the self ie. seed-form stage or soul conscious stage, then we are doing the shooting of paradise and when we are in body consciousness, then we are doing the shooting of hell or sorrow. The living body is the perfect tool for establishing paradise and hell. Nothing works without a living body. (I must use the term 'living body', otherwise Shivsena will grab this opportunity to hammer the PBKs.)
Thank you for clarifying your statement Indie Bhai, i misinterpreted your use of the term Paramdham. I thought you meant the Soul World, rather than the seed stage(nirikar) whilst in the living body, that you were actually referring to. Sorry about that!

Excellent post by the way!

Roy

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Re: Accurate remembrance

Post by shivsena » 14 Apr 2011

Roy wrote:
Seeing both the fathers, eating, drinking, walking, talking, hearing, experiencing every character, seeing the invisible in the visible through the corporeal eyes in the corporeal world, is a great luck of the Brahmin life. [Av. 3.5.84]
Roy

Dear roy Bhai.

Show this point to jagdamba mother(kamla devi) and all the old PBKs who have left the Yagya and see what response you get.....do they consider it a great luck or do they consider it as misfortune. (to be misguided by jhooti Gita AK )

Wait for a few years and when the initial elation wears off, then you also might be thinking differently.

shivsena.

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Re: Accurate remembrance

Post by pbkindiana » 14 Apr 2011

shivsena wrote:

Show this point to jagdamba mother(kamla devi) and all the old PBKs who have left the Yagya and see what response you get.....do they consider it a great luck or do they consider it as misfortune. (to be misguided by jhooti Gita AK )
When revelation takes place in the end, then only it will be considered whether it is great luck or misfortune to leave the Father of humanity- Rambap-Baba Dixit. Repentence and remorse will attack the conscience of those who left Father for not understanding Him. Punishments will be tremendous for those who condemn and denigrate Baba Dixit.
Wait for a few years and when the initial elation wears off, then you also might be thinking differently.
Everyone doesnt have your mindset.

indie.

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Re: Accurate remembrance

Post by Roy » 14 Apr 2011

shivsena wrote:Wait for a few years and when the initial elation wears off, then you also might be thinking differently.
This may be so Shivsena Bhai; but i don't believe it will be because Baba Dixit is narrating false Gita, but because Maya(five vices) got the better of me.

Roy

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Re: Accurate remembrance

Post by arjun » 14 Apr 2011

Show this point to jagdamba mother(kamla devi) and all the old PBKs who have left the Yagya and see what response you get.....do they consider it a great luck or do they consider it as misfortune. (to be misguided by jhooti Gita AK )
So, your faith on God is based on the faith of some human souls and not on the basis of Godly knowledge?????

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Re: Accurate remembrance

Post by nivi » 14 Apr 2011

Show this point to jagdamba mother(kamla devi) and all the old PBKs who have left the Yagya and see what response you get.....do they consider it a great luck or do they consider it as misfortune. (to be misguided by jhooti Gita AK )

Wait for a few years and when the initial elation wears off, then you also might be thinking differently.

shivsena.
I have been in AK for roughly 7 years now and I can tell you deep inside I do feel very lucky and blessed..But, I also have had many ups and down while on this path. It is not an easy path since Maya takes so many test paper in many forms, and from time to time clouds our judgement because we get so caught up in worldly life. Don't forget we also have our own many past lives of Karma to deal with and whose people will come time to time in our life so we can settle our account.

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Re: Accurate remembrance

Post by Sach_Khand » 14 Apr 2011

arjun wrote: I don't think so. Had that been applicable only to one Chariot, Baba would not have used the words temporary and permanent (mukarrar) chariots in the Sakar Murlis.
There is a Murli point which says that Shiv has only one flat. And also there is a point saying that He comes only in Brahma alone. If collected, we can get many Murli points indicating that Shiv comes only in One Chariot. There is nothing like temporary and Permanent Chariot. But I do have some other interpretations for the words temporary and appointed (Mukarrar) Chariot and for the word Permanent if at all it is used instead of "Mukarrar". Mukarrar means "appointed" and not permanent.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: Accurate remembrance

Post by arjun » 14 Apr 2011

There is a Murli point which says that Shiv has only one flat. And also there is a point saying that He comes only in Brahma alone. If collected, we can get many Murli points indicating that Shiv comes only in One Chariot. There is nothing like temporary and Permanent Chariot. But I do have some other interpretations for the words temporary and appointed (Mukarrar) Chariot and for the word Permanent if at all it is used instead of "Mukarrar". Mukarrar means "appointed" and not permanent.
Anyone is free to consider Dada Lekhraj (Brahma Baba) as the temporary as well as appointed Chariot. For us they mean different chariots.

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Re: Accurate remembrance

Post by Roy » 14 Apr 2011

Sach_Khand wrote:There is a Murli point which says that Shiv has only one flat. And also there is a point saying that He comes only in Brahma alone. If collected, we can get many Murli points indicating that Shiv comes only in One Chariot. There is nothing like temporary and Permanent Chariot. But I do have some other interpretations for the words temporary and appointed (Mukarrar) Chariot and for the word Permanent if at all it is used instead of "Mukarrar". Mukarrar means "appointed" and not permanent.
I think this discussion is moot, because Father Shiv cannot be revealed to the world through Brahma Baba, as that costume is gone. Therefore, there has to be another Chariot to do this! Even Shivsena Bhai, wishes to use the body of Baba Dixit, to reveal his fairy godmother; because he knows, that ultimately, everything has to be done through Sakar, in this physical world. There is also imo, the tricky point to get around, that there has to be a Father of Humanity(human seed), to start the whole new world off... Father Shiv is not going to be propagating deity children is He?

Roy

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