False Trimurti of Adv. knowledge.

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shivsena
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False Trimurti of Adv. knowledge.

Post by shivsena » 14 Apr 2011

Dear pbk brothers.

Murlis frequently say: "Brahma-Vishnu-Shankar are sukhma-vatanvasi devtas".["brahma-Vishnu-Shankar are subtle-region Dieties"]....But Ak teaches that Brahma--Vishnu--Shankar are 3 bodily persons as shown in the picture below.
Supreme Soul Shiva can never teach one thing in Murlis and say something else in clarifications of AK.
AK-trimurti.jpg
AK-trimurti.jpg (37.97 KiB) Viewed 4139 times


Murlis say that : "Brahma--Vishnu--Shankar ka janam ikkhataa hota hai." [meaning: "brahma--Vishnu--Shankar take birth together"]
But Ak teaches that DL first played the part of brahma (33 years) and then VD is playing the part of Shankar(33 years) and Vishnu(sister Vedanti) will play the part for 33 years and that makes the 100 years of Sangamyug.

In the Ak Trimurti, First murti brahma(kamla devi) is from lokik life and is considered as 108th bead of rudramala.....the second murti Shankar(VD) is from Advance Party and is supposed to be the frist bead of rudramala.....the third murti Vishnu(sister Vedanti) has no place in rudramala as she is the head of chandra-vanshi dynasty(vijaymala) and at present she is in bk org....so the three murtis supposed to be revealed as Trimurti shiv in future are at present in 3 different worlds (one in lokik life--one in pbk world and the third in bk world)...i cannot understand how logical minded PBKs can digest this teaching.

In Murlis it is said: "brahma so Vishnu in one second and Vishnu so brahma in 5000 years."...so logically brahma and Vishnu should be one soul only... but Ak teaches that brahma and Vishnu are two different souls....so again contra-diction between what is said in Murlis and what AK teaches.

In Bhakti marg, brahma--Vishnu--Shankar are described as the 3 personalities(not 3 different souls) of the same supreme GodFather Shiva, whose acts of creation--operation--destruction are depicted as being performed by the 3 subtle Dieties brahma--Vishnu--Shankar.....whereas Ak teaches that bindi shiv does these 3 acts through 3 human beings.

i do not know how much sense all the above teachings makes to PBKs but it would certainly not make any sense to any logical person.... one thing is clear that PBKs are so obsessed with bodies that they bring down even the subtle-region Dieties also to the corporeal world ....Murlis/Vanis tell us to forget this body(become dehi-abhimani) and attain the subtle angelic stage and Ak teachings brings down even the subtle Dieties in Trimurti to the physical level.(deh-abhimani stage).

More ambiguities on AK-Trimurti to follow.

shivsena.

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Re: False Trimurti of Adv. knowledge.

Post by arjun » 14 Apr 2011

shivsena wrote:Murlis frequently say: "Brahma-Vishnu-Shankar are sukhma-vatanvasi devtas".["Brahma-Vishnu-Shankar are subtle-region Dieties"]....But Ak teaches that Brahma--Vishnu--Shankar are 3 bodily persons as shown in the picture below.
It is not necessary that someone has to leave the body to become Subtle Region dweller. One can be in the stage of Subtle Region through one's intellect while being in the physical body.
The picture uploaded by you does not seem to be an official photograph. I have never seen it. Moreover, the depiction of persons sitting in place of Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar seems to be wrong. It should be Kamla Devi in the position of Brahma, Sister Vedanti in the position of Vishnu and Baba Virendra Dev Dixit in the position of Shankar.
Murlis say that : "Brahma--Vishnu--Shankar ka janam ikkhataa hota hai." [meaning: "Brahma--Vishnu--Shankar take birth together"]
But Ak teaches that DL first played the part of Brahma (33 years) and then VD is playing the part of Shankar(33 years) and Vishnu(Sister Vedanti) will play the part for 33 years and that makes the 100 years of Sangamyug.
They do take spiritual birth together in the beginning of the Yagya, but are separated and take rebirth and re-enter the Yagya in different forms and play their assigned roles in the Confluence Age.
In the Ak Trimurti, First murti Brahma(kamla devi) is from lokik life and is considered as 108th bead of rudramala.....the second murti Shankar(VD) is from Advance Party and is supposed to be the frist bead of rudramala.....the third murti Vishnu(Sister Vedanti) has no place in rudramala as she is the head of chandra-vanshi dynasty(vijaymala) and at present she is in BK org....so the three murtis supposed to be revealed as Trimurti Shiv in future are at present in 3 different worlds (one in lokik life--one in PBK world and the third in BK world)...i cannot understand how logical minded PBKs can digest this teaching.

You see only the present (as human beings are body conscious) while Shiv sees all the three aspects of time (past, present and future). This is why He is called Trikaaldarshi.
In Murlis it is said: "Brahma so Vishnu in one second and Vishnu so Brahma in 5000 years."...so logically Brahma and Vishnu should be one soul only... but Ak teaches that Brahma and Vishnu are two different souls....so again contra-diction between what is said in Murlis and what AK teaches.
If Brahma and Vishnu were to be one soul, why would Baba say in the Murlis that all three have different biographies?
In Bhakti marg, Brahma--Vishnu--Shankar are described as the 3 personalities(not 3 different souls) of the same supreme GodFather Shiva, whose acts of creation--operation--destruction are depicted as being performed by the 3 subtle Dieties Brahma--Vishnu--Shankar.....whereas Ak teaches that bindi Shiv does these 3 acts through 3 human beings.
The three personalities whom your body conscious eyes see presently as body conscious human beings will be revealed as Subtle Region dweller deities through the same bodies and not after they leave their bodies.
i do not know how much sense all the above teachings makes to PBKs but it would certainly not make any sense to any logical person.... one thing is clear that PBKs are so obsessed with bodies that they bring down even the subtle-region Dieties also to the corporeal world ....Murlis/Vanis tell us to forget this body(become dehi-abhimani) and attain the subtle angelic stage and Ak teachings brings down even the subtle Dieties in Trimurti to the physical level.(deh-abhimani stage).
It is not the PBKs, but you, who are obsessed with bodies and hence keep seeing and defaming bodies and fail to see the divine role being played by each of the three personalities (of Trimurti).

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Re: False Trimurti of Adv. knowledge.

Post by nivi » 14 Apr 2011

Shivsena Bhai,

Where did u get that picture of Trimurti? I have never seen this picture either in Pbk center or any bk center..! Are u teaching your own super advance knowledge now?

Nivi

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Re: False Trimurti of Adv. knowledge.

Post by arjun » 14 Apr 2011

Disc.CD No.435, dated 09.11.07 at Nilanga

Time: 43.10-44.08
Someone said: We have to bring out an accurate picture of Trimurti. We have the picture of the Father with us, but we don’t have the picture of the junior mother (choti mummy) and the senior mother (bari mummy). We have not seen them at all.

Baba said: Have you not seen them at all? (Someone said something) Can’t the person who has not seen Gandhiji have his picture? (Someone said – the accurate picture). Yes; and will the revelation take place only by publishing the picture or will you reveal your Father and your brothers and sisters through your actions, through your visions and through your vibrations? (Someone said – through our behaviour) Will the task (of revelation) be accomplished (just) by publishingthe picture? Then, in that case, there are many wealthy people in the world. Let them reveal the Father!

Disc.CD-443, dated 18.11.07 at Calcutta

Time: 28.30-30.30
Student: This picture of Trimurti is not accurate. It has been said in the Murli that this picture of Trimurti is not accurate. It should be made accurate. When will it become accurate?

Baba: The picture of all the three personalities should be made accurate (Someone said - It should be made) Yes, not of one personality. The picture of all the three personalities should be made accurately. That will be possible only when the one who makes it will be accurate. Will you reveal the Father through your behaviour, through your face, through your vision, through your vibrations or will the one whose face is ugly, whose behaviour is ugly reveal the Trimurti Father? (Someone said something) Ugly (bhonhda) means it is not good in appearance either. (Student: The behaviour will also be bad) Yes. The behaviour should be good; the vision should be good as well as the vibrations should also be good. Their stock of service should also be the best; only then will they reveal the Father.

It was heard that the (PBK) residents of Hyderabad had the picture of three personalities printed. They certainly had it printed; then someone among them who had it printed, started visiting the Vishnu Party. So, did he undergo degradation or did he achieve true salvation? He underwent degradation. If the Father is revealed by printing the picture, then it will be a very true and easy method. Then all the rich ones will have it printed

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Re: False Trimurti of Adv. knowledge.

Post by arjun » 14 Apr 2011

Disc.CD No.448, dated 22.11.07 at Urai (Jalaun)
Extracts-Part-2


Time: 11.20-17.11
Student: Baba, (as it is said) ten years for foundation, Brahma’s part for thirty years, Shankar’s part for thirty years, and Vishnu’s part for thirty years. So, in this way Shankar’s part was till 2008, till (20)07, 08.

Baba: How long was Brahma’spart ?
Student: Thirty years.
Baba: Thirty years. Did it end after that? Is Brahma not present in this world?
Student: No, it is going on.
Baba: Brahma’s part is fixed in the task of establishment till the end. So, similarly, Shankar’s part is also fixed in the task of establishment till the end. Vishnu’s part is also fixed in the task of establishment, sustenance and destruction till the end. Until when will these three personalities work? Until thecomplete establishmenthas taken place. Until 9 lakh, 16 thousand, 108 souls complete their studies , this Confluence Age will continue.
Student: No, for example, Brahma’s part is now going on in an Avyakt form. How will Shankar’s part be then?
Baba: Yes, it will be said that the two personalitieswere notin anybody’s intellect before the year (19)68. Whichtwopersonalities? Who are the actors who play the part of Vishnu and Shankar in this world? The personality of Brahma was in the intellect (of everyone). But that too, was it false or true?
Student: It was false. He was not the first Brahma (Aadi Brahma).
Baba: The first Brahma.
Student: I mean to say , Gita mata, the part of the first Brahma was not in the intellect, was it?
Baba: Yes, yes.
Student: The temporary Chariot was in the intellect at that time.
Baba: Yes, yes.
Student: So, as regards Shankar’s partafter (20)08, everyone has a question , what kind of partwill Baba play? Will he not meet like this? Will Classes and Murli notproceedlike this? Because just as Brahma played an Avyakt part, Shankar’s part should not become like this. How will bhatti be organized after that (the 2008)? Whatwill happen?
Baba: It has been said in an Avyakt Vani around 2000 , “the Father became incognito for the people of the world andwas revealed in front of the children.” Now the dispute is only with the Brahmakumaris, isn’t it? And in future these Brahmakumaris will join hands with the big religious gurus of the Advance Party. What? There are big religious gurus even within the Advance Party among the seed-form souls. And they will become opponents and (join hands) with the Brahmakumaris....
Student:... will join hands.
Baba: ‘Will join hands’? They are joining hands; they have joined hands; they are joining hands. They will join hands and unite there; their entire group will join handsand become one. Then they will attack the true group within the Advance Party. They are attacking even (now).Moreover, the Brahmakumaris are joining hands with the gurus of the outside world and uniting [with them]. Are they uniting or not? The gurus of the outside world, who have a lot of respect and position in the world (like) Asaram Bapu, etc. Yes, when the Brahmakumaris join hands and unite with those big gurus of the (outside) world, and when the people of the Advance Party join hands with the Brahmakumaris, [when they] join hands with the religious gurus and a small group of Suryavanshis (those belonging to the Sun dynasty) remains.
Student: Even from the Advance Party?
Baba: The group of Suryavanshis remained in the advance (party). And even among the Suryavanshis that group of Chandravanshis also remained who surrender themselves. In front of whom? In front of the Suryavanshis. Some will emerge from the rosary of victory (Vijaymala) as well, i.e. from among the BKs,won’t they ? When the queen bee emerges, then the entire tree (swarm) follows her. So, those souls, which will emerge, and here the Suryavanshis among the Advance Party, so, they are just handful when compared to the world, aren’t they ? These are few and those are numerous, in crores. So, a very big revolution will take place. God will be with these people and God will not be with those people. That is why they will go on losing and these people, the handful , the five Pandavas will go on winning. And even now they are winning. Arey, the Fatherwas revealed from the year 1976, the Advance Party was revealed; so, are they (the people of the Advance Party) continuously winning or losing? (Everyone said – they are winning) They are winning.

Now the revolution is small. It is limited to the world of Brahmins alone. Even in the world of Brahmins it is limited to those who have come to know what Brahmakumaris are and what Prajapita Brahmakumaris are. It is limited to them alone. In the future, when the entire world will know then there will be such a big opposition. These big religious gurus of the world, of the outside world, who sit in gatherings of lakhs (hundred thousand) of people and the political leaders of the big countries of the world, who hold such great powers. The President of America holds so much power. If he wishes he can destroy any country. It will not take even a second. He can destroy the entire country. They are such big religious leaders, political leaders. And if all of them join hands with the Brahmakumaris and start opposing (us), then what will be the condition? Will there be any way other than going to the Supreme Abode (Paramdham)? There will not be any (other) way

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Re: False Trimurti of Adv. knowledge.

Post by arjun » 14 Apr 2011

Disc.CD No.440, dated 13.11.07 at Anantpur

Time: 0.45-05.03
Student: Baba, Brahma, Vishnu, Shankar – all three have been shown in a male form in the path of worship, but (actually) one is male and two are mothers, are they not? In the Rudramala, a woman is transformed to Lakshmi....

Baba: In the path of worship, in (the picture of) Trimurti, all the three personalities are shown to be male forms and in the path of knowledge two (personalities) are shown in the form of mothers, i.e. Brahma and Vaishnavi Devi and the third one is shown in the form of a male. So, in the path of worship, whichever path is going on – do those who control these paths belong mostly to the path of renunciation or to the path of household? Do those gurus who belong to the path of worship, who write the scriptures of the path of worship, narrate the scriptures to others, delight people with the rituals of Bhaktimarg , belong mostly to the path of renunciation or do they belong to the path of household? They belong to the path of renunciation. So, they have depicted all the three as just men but ShivBaba comes in the path of household and teaches the knowledge of household. So, two mothers have been shown there and one man has been shown and even that single man cannot do anything (on his own). Who opens the gateway to heaven? The mothers open.

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Re: False Trimurti of Adv. knowledge.

Post by Roy » 14 Apr 2011

Thank you for the classes Arjun Bhai... powerful stuff indeed!

I see our brother, Shivsena, continues to promote his hang-ups concerning bodies(thank you for the Trimurti picture by the way Bhai, i love it)! The fact that we all live in bodies in the physical world, appears to have escaped him! :D When we talk about personalities(or instruments), how else but through a physical medium, are these personalities going to express themselves? Father Shiv has said that He needs a corporeal body in order to get anything done... "How can Father talk without a body? How can He hear? When the soul has a body, then only it can hear and speak. Father says, if I don't have organs, how can I hear or see or speak." [MU. 30/6/75] Are these subtle deities more clever and powerful than Father Shiv?... that they can achieve what He cannot, by not needing to be in Sakar(physical/practical form) to perform their tasks, as instruments of God? As Arjun Bhai suggests, is it not very body conscious to be so hung up on this, that you cannot see that it is the spiritual consciousness or stage, that is the vital factor here; not that we should shed our costumes in a gross way, and be floating around in the ether, unable to do anything at all... this is utter nonsense! :D Not only this, but the very reason ShivBaba needs instruments, is to work through their physical forms in the physical world. If it wasn't for the need of physical conduits, ShivBaba wouldn't need these personalities at all(except for Vishnu of course), He would do it all through inspiration... but as He has ruled that out as an option... "How can I explain knowledge without the aid of the corporeal medium. In this no inspiration is at all involved. I am sitting here in the form of the teacher." [MU 23/9/87]. Vishnu has to be in corporeal form, because Lakshmi and Narayan, will be the souls who continue to establish the Golden Age after Father Shiv departs from this physical world, and will then perform the very practical task, of bringing Radhe and Krishna into this world, to then bring them up, and finally pass on their titles to them. I cannot see how any of this is achievable through subtle deities without bodies. You cannot get around the fact, that not only do we receive a spiritual inheritance, but a practical one too; that has to be established in the practical, by souls who are in their own physical bodies... anything else is just make believe imo!

When we speak of the birth of the the murtis(which was nicely covered by Arjun Bhai), aren't we also speaking of the birth of Father Shiv?.. for has He not said, that His true title is, Trimurti ShivBaba? And what does ShivBaba actually mean by birth in this instance, is it a subtle(spiritual) one, or a more practical one; or perhaps both?

“The birth of Brahma-Vishnu-Shankar is together. It is not just Shivjayanti (birthday of Shiv) but Trimurti Shivjayanti (birthday of Trinity Shiv).” [Mu 3.10.05]

Roy

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Re: False Trimurti of Adv. knowledge.

Post by arjun » 15 Apr 2011

shivsena wrote:one thing is clear that PBKs are so obsessed with bodies that they bring down even the subtle-region Dieties also to the corporeal world ....Murlis/Vanis tell us to forget this body(become dehi-abhimani) and attain the subtle angelic stage and Ak teachings brings down even the subtle Dieties in Trimurti to the physical level.(deh-abhimani stage).
roy wrote:I see our Brother, Shivsena, continues to promote his hang-ups concerning bodies(thank you for the Trimurti picture by the way Bhai, i love it)! The fact that we all live in bodies in the physical world, appears to have escaped him! :D When we talk about personalities(or instruments), how else but through a physical medium, are these personalities going to express themselves? Father Shiv has said that He needs a corporeal body in order to get anything done.
If shivsena Bhai is so confident that all the tasks of this world as well as the divine task of God can be done without bodies, then why is he using his own body to type day and night on the internet? Why is he using a computer? Why is he spending money? He can sit at home and simply inspire everyone through his thoughts. I have asked him to do this in the past and would request him once again to try this method for a few months or even few years. If he is able to change the world without using his body, then we all need not use our precious time, energy and money for Godly service through this forum. But sadly he preaches something, defames others for something and does the same thing himself.
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: False Trimurti of Adv. knowledge.

Post by shivsena » 15 Apr 2011

nivi wrote:Shivsena Bhai,
Where did u get that picture of Trimurti? I have never seen this picture either in PBK center or any BK center..! Are u teaching your own super Advanced Knowledge now?
Nivi
Dear nivi.

This picture of AK-Trimurti was sent to me by a pbk group who are distributing these pictures amongst various BKs to reveal the Trimurti.

shivsena.

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Re: False Trimurti of Adv. knowledge.

Post by shivsena » 15 Apr 2011

To all pbk brothers.

Murlis frequently say : "koi bhi dehdhari ko bhagwan nahin kahenge". ["no bodily person can be called God".]
But in Ak we see that not one, but 3 bodily persons are collectively supposed to be revealed as Trimurti Shiv as below.

AK-trimurti.jpg
AK-trimurti.jpg (37.97 KiB) Viewed 4121 times
My argument is that if shiv was giving clarifications of Murlis in AK (through Baba Dixit), then why does shiv say things which is contra-dictory to what is said in Murlis.

shivsena.

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Re: False Trimurti of Adv. knowledge.

Post by nivi » 15 Apr 2011

Shivsena Bhai,

If this picture has not been approved by Baba, it is simply manmaath of whomever is circulating this around. You had mentioned it is sent by a pbk group- so do you mean a splinter group( branch from pbk)?? If that is the case, they have already split from Baba and Advance Party so it is obviously not based on the official teaching of AK.


Nivi

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Re: False Trimurti of Adv. knowledge.

Post by shivsena » 15 Apr 2011

nivi wrote:Shivsena Bhai,
If this picture has not been approved by Baba, it is simply manmaath of whomever is circulating this around. You had mentioned it is sent by a PBK group- so do you mean a splinter group( branch from PBK)?? If that is the case, they have already split from Baba and Advance Party so it is obviously not based on the official teaching of AK.
Nivi
Dear nivi.

Why would the splinter groups spread the picture revealing the teachings of Ak....whether it is approved by baba or not, the picture does represent the teachings of Baba Dixit.....so it is some staunch pbk group who are trying to reveal the Trimurti of AK.

shivsena.

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Re: False Trimurti of Adv. knowledge.

Post by arjun » 15 Apr 2011

shivsena wrote:Murlis frequently say : "koi bhi dehdhari ko bhagwan nahin kahenge". ["no bodily person can be called God".]
But in Ak we see that not one, but 3 bodily persons are collectively supposed to be revealed as Trimurti Shiv as below.
Why do you quote Murlis when they were also delivered through the mouth of a human beings only? You should rely only on Akashvani and not Avyakt Vani (which is also narrated through a human being). If you hate human beings so much, why are you talking to human beings on this forum? Is it not better to sit in a jungle or within the confines of your home? The arguments being put forward by you are becoming increasingly irrational and contradictory.

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Re: False Trimurti of Adv. knowledge.

Post by Roy » 15 Apr 2011

shivsena wrote:Murlis frequently say : "koi bhi dehdhari ko bhagwan nahin kahenge". ["no bodily person can be called God".]But in Ak we see that not one, but 3 bodily persons are collectively supposed to be revealed as Trimurti Shiv as below.
True, Father Shiv doesn't have a body of his own; but needs instruments(bodies) to get his task done in this physical world, and these physical bodies contain co-operative human souls!
arjun wrote:Why do you quote Murlis when they were also delivered through the mouth of a human beings only? You should rely only on Akashvani and not Avyakt Vani (which is also narrated through a human being). If you hate human beings so much, why are you talking to human beings on this forum? Is it not better to sit in a jungle or within the confines of your home? The arguments being put forward by you are becoming increasingly irrational and contradictory.
I have to agree with Arjun Bhai here Shivsena Bhai; i think you are starting to tie yourself in knots with this!

Roy

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Re: False Trimurti of Adv. knowledge.

Post by Roy » 15 Apr 2011

shivsena wrote:Murlis frequently say : "koi bhi dehdhari ko bhagwan nahin kahenge". ["no bodily person can be called God".]
Dear Shivsena Bhai

You claim that AK is completely false, and that body consciousness is being taught by Baba Dixit. Here is a passage from the Clarification of Murli 9-4-88, tape 24...

"In this world of bodyconsciousness and bodily relations whatever happiness can be found is temporary. You children know about narak(hell) and swarag(heaven). There is no happiness in narak. To get attached to anyone in narak is to destroy your status. What does this mean? In this world of narak to have attachment or to love anyone else other then God you destroy your status. By anyone what does Bap mean? He means everyone who is included from the first soul to the last of the 500 karor. Even Prajapita is included in the list. Or do you want attachment with Prajapita? Do you want to be attached to Prajapita or to the Supreme Soul who has come into Prajapita’s body? If you have attachment with Shav (dead body) and love the dead body (murdha) you will get nothing. The body is dead, you get nothing by loving this body (shav). He is a murdha and just ashes. The sadhus and saints go around physicaly with ashes on their bodies. What is meaning of that? The real meaning is that he is a living dead who has already finished himself off from the old world for Godly service, he has become ashes. He has died from the body and the old bodily world and from the relationships of the old world. If anyone makes a loving connection with this one there will be no rewards. The ones who become soulconscious will stay above and detached from this old bodily world. When you become bodyconscious then you start loving the body. When you become soulconscious and are not of this world that is unlimited vairagh (disinterest). Their’s is limited vairagh. We should forget this world. This world is of complete sorrow. The body and the bodily relations of this world give nothing but sorrow. We have to take a little work from these, meaning that our bodies are old and we have to make efforts through these old bodies and get a little work out of them. This old world is about to be finished. We are just guests here for a little more time. Brahmins say that we are the guests for a little time in this old world. We will come into our sweet home Rajdhani (kingdom) and experience happiness. Now we have to go. This old world is going to become a graveyard, the place where the dead bodies are burried. What is there in the graves? Nothing but earth and dust. The dead person is the one from whom the soul has gone, i.e. the man buddhi atma has surrendered to Paramatma Bap. What is remaining? The shav (dead body). Do you have to remember Shiv or Shav? Shiv! By saying Shiv it does not mean that you only remember the bindu. The body that Paramatma comes into is shav. If you have attachment to this body it is like loving a dead body (murdha) and you gain nothing. Do not remember shav, remember Shiv."

Roy

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