Three interpretations of Murli & Vani points.

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Re: Three interpretations of Murli & Vani points.

Post by pbkindiana » 21 Apr 2011

shivsena wrote:
i feel that the real Satguru is mataa jagdamba(mataa guru)
Then prove it by providing SM.

indie.

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Re: Three interpretations of Murli & Vani points.

Post by shivsena » 21 Apr 2011

pbkindiana wrote:
Then prove it by providing SM.
indie.
Murlis say : "mataa guru bigar uddhar nahin" ("there is no salvation without mataa guru.")....All purush are duryodhan-dushasan and so no purush can be the practical roop of Satguru.

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Re: Three interpretations of Murli & Vani points.

Post by Roy » 21 Apr 2011

shivsena wrote:Murlis say : "mataa guru bigar uddhar nahin" ("there is no salvation without mataa guru.")....All purush are duryodhan-dushasan and so no purush can be the practical roop of Satguru.
You get one chance a Kalpa, to meet the Satguru face to face in the practical form, and you have turned your back on that; preferring a fairy tale type of relationship instead! I can only say... i hope you are enjoying your Bhakti Bhai!

Roy

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Re: Three interpretations of Murli & Vani points.

Post by shivsena » 21 Apr 2011

Roy wrote: You get one chance a Kalpa, to meet the Satguru face to face in the practical form, and you have turned your back on that; preferring a fairy tale type of relationship instead! I can only say... i hope you are enjoying your Bhakti Bhai!
Roy
I hope you are also enjoying your newly found Bhakti.

I am enjoying the churning of Murlis and Vanis and rememberence of my subtle angelic fairy Godmother Mama-jagdamba.

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Re: Three interpretations of Murli & Vani points.

Post by shivsena » 21 Apr 2011

Roy wrote: You get one chance a Kalpa, to meet the Satguru face to face in the practical form, and you have turned your back on that; preferring a fairy tale type of relationship instead!
Roy
Dear roy Bhai.

All fairy tales remembered in Bhakti have happened sometime in a subtle manner in Sangamyug and so they are remembered as fairy tale stories.

You must have heard the tale about the "Fairy Godmother and cindrella and her sisters".Cindrella became a princess(shivshakti) with the touch of the wand from her fairy Godmother(no. 1 shivshakti), but her sisters, who despised her could not become princesses.

shivsena.

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Re: Three interpretations of Murli & Vani points.

Post by Roy » 21 Apr 2011

shivsena wrote:All fairy tales remembered in Bhakti have happened sometime in a subtle manner in Sangamyug and so they are remembered as fairy tale stories.You must have heard the tale about the "Fairy Godmother and cindrella and her sisters".Cindrella became a princess(shivshakti) with the touch of the wand from her fairy Godmother(no. 1 shivshakti), but her sisters, who despised her could not become princesses.
Shall we call you princess Shivsena, or Cinderella from now on Bhai??? :D Arjun Bhai, Indie Bhai, and myself, can be the three ugly sisters! :D

Roy

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Re: Three interpretations of Murli & Vani points.

Post by Sach_Khand » 21 Apr 2011

Roy wrote: Shall we call you princess Shivsena, or Cinderella from now on Bhai??? :D Arjun Bhai, Indie Bhai, and myself, can be the three ugly Sisters! :D

Roy
What wrong is there if Shivsena becomes princess? And what is there to make joke of it? Soul is neither male nor female. And it is also said that all souls are Sitas of One Ram. Are you ashamed of being Sita or ShivShakti?

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: Three interpretations of Murli & Vani points.

Post by arjun » 21 Apr 2011

shivsena wrote:You must have heard the tale about the "Fairy Godmother and cindrella and her Sisters".Cindrella became a princess(shivshakti) with the touch of the wand from her fairy Godmother(no. 1 shivshakti), but her Sisters, who despised her could not become princesses.
You are free to worship your fairy Godmother.

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Re: Three interpretations of Murli & Vani points.

Post by Roy » 21 Apr 2011

Sach_Khand wrote:What wrong is there if Shivsena becomes princess? And what is there to make joke of it? Soul is neither male nor female. And it is also said that all souls are Sitas of One Ram. Are you ashamed of being Sita or ShivShakti?
No Sanjeev Bhai, you are quite correct, my comment is body conscious, but i couldn't resist it. Christmas pantomime, is still quite a big tradition in the UK; and Shivsena Bhai's reference to Cinderella, evoked images within me, that i found quite amusing! My comment wasn't meant to be taken too seriously, and i did include myself, as one of the ugly sisters. :D

Roy

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Re: Three interpretations of Murli & Vani points.

Post by pbkindiana » 22 Apr 2011

shivsena wrote:
Murlis say : "mataa guru bigar uddhar nahin" ("there is no salvation without mataa guru.")....All purush are duryodhan-dushasan and so no purush can be the practical roop of Satguru.
it is because Shiva is establishing the household path, so He has to uplift the women too by saying that "there is no salvation without mata guru" -- as Lakshmi-Narayan is proof of the household path. Shiva cannot uplift the men only, He has to uplift the women too and beginning from Copper Age till today, women are being harassed and they have become subservient to men. So it is only ShivBaba's task to uplift women by saying that no man can achieve salvation without them. When this task is performed here in sangam yug, it surfaces in Bhakti-marg as "there is a woman behind every successful man."

If you say that mothers or women are powerful, then look at the world or particularly look at India. Which gender is domineering in India or in this world?

Also it is said in SM "that ShivBaba is a Father's role only" and "a mother is not included in ShivBaba."

Only one purush can become equal to Shiv as it is in Shiv-Shankar and no woman has got her name suffix to Shiva. Even in Bhakti-marg, most men become sanyasis compare to women and also most women are engrossed in their physique compare to men. A good example is the Trimurthi picture where Brahma(mother) is fully clad(ie. body-consciousness) and Shankar(Father) is shown without clothes as that indicate of soul-conscious stage.

indie.

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Re: Three interpretations of Murli & Vani points.

Post by Sach_Khand » 22 Apr 2011

Roy wrote: ...Shivsena Bhai's reference to Cinderella, evoked images within me, that i found quite amusing! My comment wasn't meant to be taken too seriously, and i did include myself, as one of the ugly Sisters. :D

Roy
Dear Roy,
Then that means it was cracking of a joke and making fun of Shivsena. I think this should not happen. As per my experience for the last few months, Shivsena has stopped responding to abuses or/and mocking and is strictly almost sticking to the subject of Gnyaan. I appreciate that. But the problem others are having with him is that he keeps on repeating his theory and is trying to prove it with the SM and AV points.
Is there anything wrong in it? Even AIVV does the same thing. They have theory which says that Virendra Dev Dixit is the permanent Chariot and is Prajapita Brhma. And AIVV followers are trying to prove it. Some other points are also told in AIVV. But some of them are changed many times and there is contradiction.
What I am trying to say is that we are here to share and grow. And this is possible with open unbiased mind and freindly enviornment in the forum. And this will help us open the lock of our intellect. But if someone here thinks that his/her lock on their intellect is already opened then that should reflect in their natural (not forceful) behaviour in the forum. We are our best judges.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: Three interpretations of Murli & Vani points.

Post by Roy » 22 Apr 2011

Sach_Khand wrote:Then that means it was cracking of a joke and making fun of Shivsena. I think this should not happen. As per my experience for the last few months, Shivsena has stopped responding to abuses or/and mocking and is strictly almost sticking to the subject of Gnyaan. I appreciate that. But the problem others are having with him is that he keeps on repeating his theory and is trying to prove it with the SM and AV points.Is there anything wrong in it? Even AIVV does the same thing. They have theory which says that Virendra Dev Dixit is the permanent Chariot and is Prajapita Brhma. And AIVV followers are trying to prove it. Some other points are also told in AIVV. But some of them are changed many times and there is contradiction.What I am trying to say is that we are here to share and grow. And this is possible with open unbiased mind and freindly enviornment in the forum. And this will help us open the lock of our intellect. But if someone here thinks that his/her lock on their intellect is already opened then that should reflect in their natural (not forceful) behaviour in the forum. We are our best judges.
Dear Sanjeev Bhai

I believe what you are saying here is accurate! Shivsena Bhai, presents his points in a very clear and business like manner, which i respect... but it think it can all get a little too serious at times, and i like to post a cheeky comment or two, to lighten things up a bit. I may be wrong in doing this, but i don't only do this with Shivsena Bhai, i have done it with Indie Bhai too! I don't think my attempts at humour have been appreciated much, but i cannot promise i won't throw in another one, now and again. If Shivsena Bhai as admin thinks I am out of line, or indeed any other souls, from which ever side of the fence you sit, believe my cheeky comments are bad for the forum, please speak up, and i will refrain from this practise; as it is not my intention to offend anyone(well not too much anyway!) :D

Roy

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Re: Three interpretations of Murli & Vani points.

Post by pbkindiana » 22 Apr 2011

Roy wrote:
I believe what you are saying here is accurate! Shivsena Bhai, presents his points in a very clear and business like manner, which i respect...
Dear Roy Bhai,

Are you sure shivsena presents his views logically when he has referred the PBKs as idiots in brackets instead of just following the word 'bharatwasis in SM. Also it is very noticeable that shivsena uses every SM or AV to condemn the PBKs and Baba DIxit. He never fails in that. So it is obvious that shivsena postings are not diplomatic but just condemnations.

indie.

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Re: Three interpretations of Murli & Vani points.

Post by Roy » 22 Apr 2011

pbkindiana wrote:Are you sure shivsena presents his views logically when he has referred the PBKs as idiots in brackets instead of just following the word 'bharatwasis in SM. Also it is very noticeable that shivsena uses every SM or AV to condemn the PBKs and Baba DIxit. He never fails in that. So it is obvious that shivsena postings are not diplomatic but just condemnations.
Ah, but Indie Bhai, i never mentioned i thought they were necessarily logical posts, as i don't... but i do find him very direct and organised in his presentation, so that i usually know exactly what he is saying. Shivsena Bhai is a very articulate, and intelligent soul imo; but i believe his subtle spiritual intellect, has been locked my Maya(five vices), and his persecution of AK has become an obsession as a result of this. This has made me some what ambivalent, about my whole forum experience. I enjoy coming here because Shivsena Bhai challenges AK, which make me study more ernestly; and it also brings out great points of knowlege and churning, from souls like yourself. So i infact, very much benefit from the whole process. On the other hand, i do not enjoy the fact that i feel ShIvsena Bhai has lost his way, and that his condemnation of AK, is hurting him spiritually, and potentially, many others also. I also feel for Arjun Bhai, as he has had enough of Shivsena's repetitious comments after all these years; but he hangs in there like a real trooper, which i respect; and believe is creating some very powerful sanskars of perserverance, which he clearly demonstrates.

So i totally enjoy sharing this forum with my brothers and sisters, and have grown very fond of you all, even Shivsena Bhai! :D But i feel i have to be careful to remember the whole picture, as this Confluence Age and Knowledge, is serious stuff at the end of the day!

Roy

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Re: Three interpretations of Murli & Vani points.

Post by Sach_Khand » 23 Apr 2011

pbkindiana wrote: Dear Roy Bhai,

Are you sure shivsena presents his views logically when he has referred the PBKs as idiots in brackets instead of just following the word 'bharatwasis in SM. Also it is very noticeable that shivsena uses every SM or AV to condemn the PBKs and Baba DIxit. He never fails in that. So it is obvious that shivsena postings are not diplomatic but just condemnations.

indie.
Is anything wrong in doing this?
Shivsena has openly stated that now he does not beleive AK as True knowledge on the contrary a web of Maya to misguide the spiritual students of ShivBaba.
And for his theory, he has to depend on SM and AV to prove himself right. Everyone does the same thing.
BKs do the same thing by using some Shlokas of BhagwadGita scripture. Virendra Dev Dixit did the same thing. Used Murlis to condemn the interpretations of Murlis by BKWSU and challenged BKs by saying that Dada Lekharaj is not at all Prajapita Brahma. And used the same SM and AV even to prove some BKs as heads of Ravan.
So, why single out Shivsena? Even I will have to use SM and AV points to prove my opinion or views about ShivBaba and His knowledge. For that matter everyone will do the same thing.
But, personally I feel now that it is not much useful in keep on debating. Better to BE and prove it where no proofs are expected. Now the time is to make things happen and not just preach.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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