Murli points on Ram

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shivsena
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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post by shivsena » 22 Mar 2008

suryavanshi wrote:1) "Dukh mein Yaad toh kartein hain na - Hey Bhagwaan, Hey Ram. Ram bhi niraakaar bhagwaan ko hi kahtein hain.Niraakaar hi oonch te oonch bhagwaan hain." mu 13/12/1985

2) "Tum jaante ho ki Shri Ram ki aatmaan toh jaroor poonarjanma leti rehtin hogi. Yahaan hi purusharth kartein rehtein hain. Itnaa naam baalaa hain Ram kaa, toh jaroor aayenge, oonko knowledge leni padegi" mu 19/9/1989

3) ShivBaba, Baba bhi hain, saajan bhi hain, sabhi sitaaon kaa Ram hain. Wahi patit- pawan hain. mu 27/4/01

4) "Ram ko jaantein nahi. Shiv ki jo pooja jo ki jaati hain oonko Ram nahi kahenge, ShivBaba kahnaa shobhtaa hain" mu 18/3/1999

5) Ishwar ko Ram nahi kahaa jaataa. Bahut log Ram-Ram ki mala japte hain paratu Yaad toh Bhagwaan ko kartein hain. Naam Ram kaa right hain kyonki yah toh koi jaantein nahi ki ishwar kaa naam roop kyaa hain? mu . 19/12/2001
Dear brother.
You have just quoted all the Murli points on Ram, but you have not given your inference about what you are trying to prove. If you are trying to say that Nirakar shivbindi is speaking about himself as Ram (another name of bindishiv) then i do not wish to argue any further. I firmly believe that in the above Murlis Shiva is describing not himself but the 100% nirakari stage of Ram when Ram=shiv and both becomes indistinguishable from each other and all the titles of bindishiv are then applicable to Ramshivbaba, who will liberate all BKs and PBKs from bondage.

BKs are firm in their belief that bindishivbaba is God through' Lekhraj Kirpalani and PBKs are firm in their belief that bindishivbaba is God through Virendra Dev Dixit. But i firmly believe that the 100% nirakari stage of Ram will be revealed as God Ramshivbaba through Virendra Dev Dixit and these 3 different beliefs will decide who will come in 9 lac, 16000, and 108. Let us wait and see which belief is true.

shivsena.

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post by suryavanshi » 22 Mar 2008

These Murli points clear show or say that word " Ram" is used to indicate both "Niraakar Shiv" as well as "Soul of Ram". There is no need of any inference or explanation on this.

It is only in Bhakti marg they say that Shiv-Shankar are same but in Gyan marg, the difference in part of Shiv and Shankar is evident as per advance knowledge which is being narrated by ShivBaba through Virendra Dev Dixit. One cannot pick only few points from Murli and give his/her own interpretation and disprove everything. Any new conclusion from the Murli should prove to be true in light of any Murli point used/cited. But that was not the case. Again, it is futile to interpret the knowledge on our own, because if we could interpret and understand everything on our own, then there is no need of any Supreme teacher(ShivBaba).Our job instead is to understand deeply what is being explained by Him(ShivBaba).

Here are more Murli points according to which role of Shiv Baap has to continue till the end.

1) "yah toh baap ko aanaa padtaa hain. Ant tak baap ko Gyan sunaanaa hain. Aatein hi gupt roop mein hain. Krishna toh ho na sakein. " mu dated 15/8/1992

if Krishna is using the Chariot of Virendra Dev Dixit at this time(as beleived by you), then how can Shiv Baap be said to narrate knowledge till the end as per above Murli point ?????

So, currently ShivBaba is narrating the knowledge through Virendra Dev Dixit and will continue till the end.

2) "Shankar toh janma-maran sein nyaaraa hain, isliye Shiv aur Shankar ko phir milaa diyaa hain. Vaastav mein Shiv kaa toh bahoot part hain, padhaatein hain." mu dated 4/5/2000

Again, if Krishna is using the Chariot of Virendra Dev Dixit at this time(as beleived by you), then how can Shiv Baap be said to have too much part(role of mother initially and role of Father now) , how can He be said to teach us the knowledge as per above Murli point ???

So, again currently ShivBaba is playing the role of Father(rudra part ) and also teaching us knowledge through Virendra Dev Dixit.

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Clarification of Vishnu

Post by shivsena » 23 Mar 2008

Dear arjun Bhai.

According to advance knowledge the clarification about Vishnu is given as follows, the body of Vishnu is Ram's soul and the 4 arms of Vishnu represent 4 souls:

Arm with swadarshan chakra denotes Mama Saraswati (if Mama Saraswati left her body in 1965, how can she be swadarshan-chakradhari?? Also she has to enter Vedanti bhen to make her Sangamyugi Radha and bring her to Sangamyugi Krishna; so how can she enter Vishnu to become one arm??)

Arm with gadaa (mace) represents Brahma (in Murlis it is said that Brahma so Vishnu in one second; so how only one arm of Vishnu is represented by Brahma; it should be the whole body.)

Arm with kamal ka phool (lotus flower) is represented by Maa, (who left the Yagya to return to lokik life; so how can lotus flower, a sign of purity, be attributed to Maa ??)

Arm with shank represents head of vijaymala (supposedly Vedanti) how can her soul leave the body and enter Vishnu is what i am not able to understand; also vijaymala group are chandravanshis (as they will see Krishna in body of Virendra Dev Dixit) and so how can they reveal the Gyan-surya Rambap??

These are some of the queries which i am not able to digest; so please give your views regarding the same.

shivsena.

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post by shivsena » 06 May 2008

suryavanshi wrote: So, currently ShivBaba is narrating the knowledge through Veerendra Dev Dixit and will continue till the end.
So, again currently ShivBaba is playing the role of Father(rudra part ) and also teaching us knowledge through Veerendra Dev Dixit.
Dear suryavanshi Bhai.

Murli 26-12-2000 Shiva says," ShivBaba ShivBaba kahena toh bahut sahaj hai, par koi na ShivBaba ko jaante hain na varsa ko jaante hain; Baba maanaa hi varsa."(meaning that, "it is very easy to say ShivBaba ShivBaba, but nobody knows who is ShivBaba and what is the inheritance; Baba means inheritance").

In the above Murli, Shiva is clearly saying that it is very easy to say ShivBaba ShivBaba (meaning bindi ShivBaba) but nobody knows the practical personified form of ShivBaba ie Ramshivbaba who will be revealed only in the end, and whosoever then says Baba will get his inheritance in one second.

shivsena.

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post by pbkindiana » 07 May 2008

Dear shivsena Bhai,

It is mentioned in one Avyakt Vani "that the features of the appointed Chariot will change" and to-date no one knows what will Baba Virendra Dev Dixit features be when He has attained the 100% nirakari stage and merges with the incorporeal stage of Supreme Father Shiva. Then God's presence will be a prevalent view to the brahmin world first and then of the outside world. So whoever's intellect can catch the exact external appearance of ShivBaba, will receive their inheritance numberwise.

Om Shanti -- indie.

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post by andrey » 07 May 2008

It is mentioned in one Avyakt Vani "that the features of the appointed Chariot will change"
Please, provide such a quote. It is hard to believe. In all the Avyakt Vanis there is no talk about appointed Chariot at all.

Whatever it may be you mean we better remember the face rather then the soul?

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post by pbkindiana » 09 May 2008

andrey wrote:Please, provide such a quote. It is hard to believe. In all the Avyakt Vanis there is no talk about appointed Chariot at all.
Dear andrey Bhai,

Allow me some time to search for this particular quote and i will post it.
Whatever it may be you mean we better remember the face rather then the soul?
The special quality of the rudrabeads is that they have recognized Supreme Father Shiv in the appointed Chariot through their intellect. So we still can maintain connections with ShivBaba as long as we know who the appointed Chariot of S S Shiv is. When Rambap has attained the 100% nirakari stage and merges with the Incorporeal stage of Supreme Father Shiva, then only it is said as accurate remembrance. Then say "BABA" and receive your inheritance in a second. Also Baba Virendra Dev Dixit features will change. Then both the brahmin world and the lokik world will say that GOD (ShivBaba) has come and all will come running to Madhuban. Also when we say that GOD has come, then GOD must look like GOD and not like Baba Virendra Dev Dixit or Brahma Baba( as per shivsena Bhai's views). These are my views. Please don't take it for granted.

Also I have read a clarification Murli ( i cannot remember the VCD no.) that if we want to know the exact features of the world mother and the world Father, go to the Subtle Region and you can see their exact features.

Om Shanti -- indie.

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post by andrey » 09 May 2008

Who has told you that features will change? How is God supposed to look? He is only a soul. Does he have a face? And it is said "I enter an ordinary body", so it will be an ordinary face. The transformation you might be talking about could be after the soul is transformed then the body is also transformed (purified), but then this is not God but a deity.

Yes, it is said that even the features of our perfect stage is there waiting for us in the Subtle Region. But what is this suble region and where it is? Even in the beginning children used to ask Om Radhe to show them their image of their future form. It is a matter of picture we see with the mind and intellect. We churn and realize our part.

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post by shivsena » 11 May 2008

Dear arjun, indiana, suryavanshi, slammer and andrey Bhai.

I have a very genuine query for all PBKs.

The advance knowledge was first given officially by Virendra Dev Dixit to a group of souls (about 55) in Delhi in 1976 (as per hearsay evidence). I have talked to some souls of that group and they all confirmed that they addressed Virendra Dev Dixit as "Virendrabhai" and not as ''Baba''.

Immediately after 1976, Virendra Dev Dixit went on all India tour and no one knows about what he did for 5 years from 1976 to 1981. Then in 1981, he returned to Kampil after hearing about his Father's demise and in 1983 Mama surrendered to Virendra Dev Dixit, accepting him as life partner. Even after Mama's surrender, the souls who came to Kampil addressed Virendra Dev Dixit as ''Bhai" and called Mama as ''baby". It was only after 1988-89, when about 9 kanyas from AP surrendered, that the souls started calling Virendra Dev Dixit as ''Baba'' and Mama as ''mummy".

So i wish to know that, if it was Shiva who gave advance knowledge in 1976, why was HE not called 'Baba' in 1976 in the first instance, and why did it take 12 years (from 1976 to 1989) for souls to realise that they should call Shiva in Virendra Dev Dixit as ''Baba'' and not as ''Bhai" ????

Can any pbk please enlighten us?

shivsena.

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post by arjun » 11 May 2008

Dear brother,
Om Shanti. Brother new knowledge also asked a somewhat similar question when he asked about the birth-like revelation of the Father in 1976, 1988/89, 1998 and then in 2018.

I was recently listening to a VCD no.817 recorded at Nivadi, M.P, on 24.11.07 where ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) was clarifying the original Sakar Murli dated 24.2.68.

In the above clarification Murli dated 24.11.07 Baba compared the above mentioned years of revelation of the Father during the Confluence Age with the various stages of the birth of a child, the stage when a soul enters the foetus, when it comes out of the womb, when it gets revealed to the world, etc.

It may be possible that from 1976 to 1988 the souls which got advanced knowledge had faith that it was Godly knowledge but because the corporeal medium was young in age, they might have called him as 'Bhai' instead of Baba.

However, I will confirm about your claim from some of the pre-1988 period PBKs.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post by new knowledge » 12 May 2008

Who is this Ram in remembrance of whom it is said - 'Ram naam japnaa, paraayaa maal apnaa', 'Munh mein Ram, bagal mein chhuri' & 'Rampuri chaaku'?

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post by new knowledge » 12 May 2008

Who is this Ram in remembrance of whom it is said - 'Ram naam japnaa, paraayaa maal apnaa', 'Munh mein Ram, bagal mein chhuri' & 'Rampuri chaaku'?

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post by shivsena » 14 May 2008

arjun wrote:In the above clarification Murli dated 24.11.07 Baba compared the above mentioned years of revelation of the Father during the Confluence Age with the various stages of the birth of a child, the stage when a soul enters the foetus, when it comes out of the womb, when it gets revealed to the world, etc.
Arjun
Dear arjun Bhai.

I can understand that a child goes through various stages in the womb of the mother ie. conception, development for 9 months of the human body and finally birth and revelation to the outside world; but can this analogy be applied to Shiva in a subtle sense, that Shiva also goes through the womb of advance knowledge from 1969 to 1989 (for 20 years) to be finally revealed as ShivBaba in 1989(which incidently marks the beginning of dwapuryug and not P. Sangamyug of the behad ka drama).

Also Shiva says in Murlis that "Main garb se janam nahin leta hun" ; Bap toh aate hi Gyan sunana shuru kar dete hain" (meaning that "I do not take birth through the womb; The Father comes and starts giving knowledge''); So how can Shiva take birth after being in the womb of advance knowledge for 20 years; this is what i am not able to understand.

shivsena.

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post by new knowledge » 14 May 2008

During the year 1976, Baba Virendra Dev Dixit attained the Narayan stage (intellectually) & after 12 years, i.e, in 1988, he was revealed as the Confluence Aged Krishna. Thus first he became Confluence Aged Narayan & then the Confluence Aged Krishna!!! How did a Narayan get converted into a Krishna? Does Krishna become Narayan or Narayan become Krishna?

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Re: Murli points on Ram

Post by arjun » 16 May 2008

shivsena wrote:The Advanced Knowledge was first given officially by Veerendra Dev Dixit to a group of souls (about 55) in Delhi in 1976 (as per hearsay evidence). I have talked to some souls of that group and they all confirmed that they addressed Veerendra Dev Dixit as "Virendrabhai" and not as ''Baba''.

Immediately after 1976, Veerendra Dev Dixit went on all India tour and no one knows about what he did for 5 years from 1976 to 1981. Then in 1981, he returned to Kampil after hearing about his Father's demise and in 1983 Mama surrendered to Veerendra Dev Dixit, accepting him as life partner. Even after Mama's surrender, the souls who came to Kampil addressed Veerendra Dev Dixit as ''Bhai" and called Mama as ''baby". It was only after 1988-89, when about 9 kanyas from AP surrendered, that the souls started calling Veerendra Dev Dixit as ''Baba'' and Mama as ''mummy".
Om Shanti. Today I happened to meet a senior surrendered PBK sister at the local mini-Madhubans and asked her about the above and she agreed to it to a certain extent. She said that as far as she knew it was the PBKs from Karnataka, who started calling Baba Virendra Dev Dixit and Kamla Devi as Baba and Mama in 1985/86.

She also informed that it was only in 1985/86 that the name of Kamala Devi was added in the letters of faith (nishchay patra).
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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